Marijuana Is More Dangerous Than You Think

[question everything]

(snip)

But the number of Americans who use cannabis heavily is soaring. In 2006, about 3 million Americans reported using the drug at least 300 times a year, the standard for daily use. By 2017, that number had increased to 8 million—approaching the 12 million Americans who drank every day. Put another way, only one in 15 drinkers consumed alcohol daily; about one in five marijuana users used cannabis that often. And they are consuming cannabis that is far more potent than ever before, as measured by the amount of THC it contains. THC, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, is the chemical responsible for the drug’s psychoactive effects. In the 1970s, most marijuana contained less than 2% THC. Today, marijuana routinely contains 20-25% THC, thanks to sophisticated farming and cloning techniques and to the demand of users to get a stronger high more quickly. In states where cannabis is legal, many users prefer extracts that are nearly pure THC.

(snip)

In reality, accurately tracking psychosis cases is impossible in the U.S. The government carefully tracks diseases such as cancer with central registries, but no such system exists for schizophrenia or other severe mental illnesses. Some population-level data does exist, though. Research from Finland and Denmark, two countries that track mental illness more accurately, shows a significant increase in psychosis since 2000, following an increase in cannabis use. And last September, a large survey found a rise in serious mental illness in the U.S. too. In 2017, 7.5% of young adults met the criteria for serious mental illness, double the rate in 2008.

What is clear is that, in individual cases, marijuana can cause psychosis, and psychosis is a high risk factor for violence. What’s more, much of that violence occurs when psychotic people are using drugs. As long as people with schizophrenia are avoiding recreational drugs, they are only moderately more likely to become violent than healthy people. But when they use drugs, their risk of violence skyrockets. The drug they are most likely to use is cannabis.

The most obvious way that cannabis fuels violence in psychotic people is through its tendency to cause paranoia. Even marijuana advocates acknowledge that the drug can cause paranoia; the risk is so obvious that users joke about it, and dispensaries advertise certain strains as less likely to do so. But for people with psychotic disorders, paranoia can fuel extreme violence.

(snip)

The first four states to legalize marijuana for recreational use were Colorado and Washington in 2014 and Alaska and Oregon in 2015. Combined, those four states had about 450 murders and 30,300 aggravated assaults in 2013. In 2017, they had almost 620 murders and 38,000 aggravated assaults—an increase far greater than the national average. Knowing exactly how much of that increase is related to cannabis is impossible without researching every crime. But for centuries, people all over the world have understood that cannabis causes mental illness and violence—just as they’ve known that opiates cause addiction and overdose. Hard data on the relationship between marijuana and madness dates back 150 years, to British asylum registers in India.

More..

https://www.wsj.com/articles/marijuana-is-more-dangerous-than-you-think-11546527075

—Mr. Berenson is a former New York Times reporter and the author of 12 novels. This essay is adapted from his new book, “Tell Your Children: The Truth About Marijuana, Mental Illness and Violence,” which will be published by Free Press on Jan. 8.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

1. Oh look, more fear-mongering about marijuana using cherry picked data.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/14/18175446/alex-berenson-tell-the-truth-marijuana-psychosis-violence

But as I read Berenson’s book, it was impossible to escape that, while a compelling read written by an experienced journalist, it is essentially an exercise in cherry-picking data and presenting correlation as causation. Observations and anecdotes, not rigorous scientific analysis, are at the core of the book’s claim that legal marijuana will cause — and, in fact, is causing — a huge rise in psychosis and violence in America.

The book largely focuses on grisly anecdotes of violent crimes committed under the influence of marijuana, the kind of “reefer madness” stories authorities and the media leaned on when they first prohibited cannabis in the 20th century.

Berenson leverages these anecdotes and limited data to argue that heavy marijuana use, spurred by the legalization of pot in several US states, is already leading to a “black tide of psychosis” and “red tide of violence.” He warns that things will only get worse as the legal pot industry grows bigger, with an incentive to stifle heavy regulations on cannabis.

In one example, he cites a recent, massive review of the evidence on marijuana’s benefits and harms from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, claiming the report, on the link between marijuana and psychosis, “declared the issue settled.”

[msongs]

2. author of 12 novels lol. says psychosis data is in reality untrackable but uses

psychosis issues as his primary support. religion is a proven killer of billions

[hvn_nbr_2]

36. This is his 13th novel, "Reefer Madness Fantasies" nt

[brush]

3. Have you ever tried it? If not, maybe you should'nt post this.

[JenniferJuniper]

4. Reefer Madness!

[kysrsoze]

12. Exactly. What an absolute crock of shit. Been there, done that.

The general public doesn’t buy into this nonsense anymore.

[tymorial]

16. Seriously. Its really bad for you. If you smoke you'll become this guy

[Beausoleil]

22. I am that guy!

oh nooooooos!

[tymorial]

25. I haven't smoked or ingested since college

Honestly, I have no idea where I would go even if I wanted to lol.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

28. Omg...he's clearly reefer mad.

The fingers and eyes give it away. i didnt know they had vape pens back then bc holy toledo...look at that puff of smoke.

[mbusby]

5. "Does marijuana use really cause psychotic disorders?"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/20/marijuana-cannabis-health-effects-issues-mental-health-disorders-science

[SCantiGOP]

6. Bullshit

I don't like to alert, but really don't see the point of posting some crap like this from the Wall St Journal.

[question everything]

15. Thank god we do not have "Groupthink" on DU.

Not yet, I hope.

Oh, in case you missed it, it is an excerpt from a book. The WSJ often does it, just as it did, back in 2013 the Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America’s Police Forces by Radley Balko

[LisaM]

7. Here's a good response to that article

https://www.wweek.com/news/2019/01/23/a-new-book-says-cannabis-use-leads-to-violence-two-oregonians-fire-back/

I live in Washington and I voted for marijuana legalization. I'd vote yes for it again, but I will say, there's been a few consequences I could live without - the first is, in downtown Seattle, there's open use (which is illegal, but goes completely unremarked by law enforcement) and often a persistent (and not good) reek of pot everywhere. If I walked down the street with an open beer, I'd be ticketed, but open marijuana use seems to be okay.

Another is the absolute eyesores the stores are in rural areas up north - huge flashing billboards, gaudy stores, bright colors, just garish. It mars the landscape in beautiful areas, and there should be some control over this. (I'm not saying they should be like speakeasies, hidden away, but there seems to be absolutely no limit on how ugly the stores can be, and Washington is a beautiful state that does not deserve that. It's like when Bedford Falls turned into Potterville).

The final thing is that I don't think the strength of the newer versions was fully explained in the bill. Like many, I probably just though of marijuana as weak and relatively harmless, like the pot most of us probably tried in college a while back. It's anything but, there are really strong versions out there, and there are people who use that openly and in public. I also probably wouldn't support some of the available edibles, which are just like candy and marketed accordingly. I think the sponsors of the bill should have been more upfront about this.

Again, I'd for yes for the bill if it came up again, but I think that other states could learn a few things from how it's actually played out in Washington.

[dixiegrrrrl]

23. My son lives in Washington state, sez same thing about billboards...really hates them.

He is old enough to remember open pot smoking since the late 70's, I for sure remember public smoking before that in Seattle, but it was not as open as when people used to smoke cigs on teh street. Come to think of it.. no one ever said a word about tobacco smoke reeking in public areas.

Vaping pot is becoming quite popular, I hear. Esp. in public areas where lighting a joint might be a problem. Most experienced pot users understand exactly what amount of THC/how many hits/ is effective for them.

I am wondering if those measuring pot use ever think about all the yummy cannabis edibles there are.
Their THC is limited per dose, at least in Washington, but no limits on how many dose you take at once.

Now that Big Business is moving into the legal pot trade, they won't be happy until they squeeze every penny out of the market.
Wonder if the anti-pot crowd will protest them.

[LisaM]

24. Oh, as long as I've lived here people have griped about cigarette smoke (I don't smoke).

Yes, people are vaping pot. I don't know about the law - it didn't play out the way I thought it would, that pot use would be similar to how it was, just legal. I didn't count on the absolute stink (it's bad, very strong and oily smelling, and it lingers on peoples' hair and clothes) and the seemingly ubiquitous open use.

I do hope that it loosens up the prison system - one of the main reasons I voted for it, to keep otherwise law-abiding people going to jail for minor narcotics charges, which is ridiculous.

I do think it would behoove the users to be a little more courteous, but maybe that's the next step. And those billboards have got to go!!

[TwistOneUp]

8. Yes, it is dangerous ... to corrupt Politicians

Because 420 makes you think - something the GOP doesn't want you to do.

[nykym]

9. So could the increase of crimes in 2017

be because of tRumps election?
Just asking.

[hunter]

10. I suppose cigarettes cause schizophrenia too.

Nope. It doesn't work that way.

People with mental illnesses self-medicate, often in unhealthy ways.

On a scale of societal horrors, I'd put tobacco and alcohol on top, and cannabis somewhere above canned soda, both sugar or sugar free.

I'd trust someone in a supervised methadone treatment program more than I'd trust a Diet Coke fiend.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/12/12/trump-reportedly-drinks-12-cans-of-diet-coke-each-day-is-that-healthy/

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

30. cig butts along the street....eyesore, and they go into the drains.

Bugs me more than a whiff of Mj every once in awhile.

[tymorial]

11. Just so everyone knows. Alcohol is so much safer and never ever ever

EVER contributes to violence.

[question everything]

13. One is not supposed to drive under the influence of alcohol, or while texting

What about under the influence of cannabis?

I loved it when former CA governor, Jerry Brown said: How many people can get stoned and still have a great state?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/03/02/gov-jerry-brown-on-legalized-marijuana-how-many-people-can-get-stoned-and-still-have-a-great-state/

[tymorial]

14. What is your point? You aren't supposed to drive if you are impaired.

It doesn't matter if it is a prescribed medication, marijuana or cold medicine. If you are impaired and you get caught, you will be arrested.

Your argument is just another "yeah but what about..."

[question everything]

17. And how do you know when someone is impaired?

We can check blood alcohol, we can check, sometimes, if a driver was texting before the accident, how would you check for being stoned?

"whatabout?" You were the one who brought alcohol to the discussion.

[tymorial]

19. Yup, I did because it is the perfect example of how this argument is hypocritical

Anti-Marijuana activists spend all of their time trying to stop legalization because it might cause more violence while ignoring the fact that Alcohol has caused and will cause more violence than pot would ever.

[dpibel]

21. I'll take "blood test" for $500, Alex

The state of Washington seems to think it can determine blood THC level:

https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.20.308

RCW 46.20.308
Implied consent—Test refusal—Procedures.

(4) Nothing in subsection (1), (2), or (3) of this section precludes a law enforcement officer from obtaining a person's blood to test for alcohol, marijuana, or any drug, pursuant to a search warrant, a valid waiver of the warrant requirement, when exigent circumstances exist, or under any other authority of law. Any blood drawn for the purpose of determining the person's alcohol, marijuana levels, or any drug, is drawn pursuant to this section when the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the person is in physical control or driving a vehicle under the influence or in violation of RCW 46.61.503.
(5) If, after arrest and after any other applicable conditions and requirements of this section have been satisfied, a test or tests of the person's blood or breath is administered and the test results indicate that the alcohol concentration of the person's breath or blood is 0.08 or more, or the THC concentration of the person's blood is 5.00 or more, if the person is age twenty-one or over, or that the alcohol concentration of the person's breath or blood is 0.02 or more, or the THC concentration of the person's blood is above 0.00, if the person is under the age of twenty-one, or the person refuses to submit to a test, the arresting officer or other law enforcement officer at whose direction any test has been given, or the department, where applicable, if the arrest results in a test of the person's blood, shall:

[tymorial]

34. Field tests are also being developed for law enforcement

I don't think we are quite there yet so blood tests will have to suffice but my guess is we are a couple years away from wide proliferation.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/04/634992695/the-pot-breathalyzer-is-here-maybe

[GeorgeGist]

18. Reefer Madness in the Age of Jim Crow ...

...

He does have his critics as well. Most have pointed out the most obvious fault of the book, simply that correlation does not equal causation. It's happened often enough that the axiom now seems to infuriate his followers. But it stubbornly remains a cornerstone of rational thought. Denying its truth reveals logical illiteracy.

It's especially inconvenient for one of Berenson's central claims, that cannabis use leads to schizophrenia. He admits as much, but nonetheless, he persists. In his own words, finding accurate numbers is "impossible. Not hard. Impossible." But within a few pages, he makes the process seem not impossible but pretty darned easy. In the grim tone that characterizes much of the writing in this book, he intones that last fall, "a 70,000-person federal survey showed skyrocketing rates of serious mental illness among young adults in the United States, the same people who are most likely to use cannabis." Beyond its non-sequitor logic, that's a fairly breezy indictment of a couple of Millennials and Generation Z.

But to be fair, could he be right, despite faults in logic? Yes. Researchers have found a connection between psychosis and cannabis consumption. Unhappily for his ominous conclusion, they've also found similar links between this mental illness and nicotine, alcohol and caffeine. In a study of 2 million Swedes, smoking cigarettes was a predictive sign of psychosis. The more a tobacco smoker smoked, the higher the risk.

He applies the same shoot from the hip approach to impaired driving. "The risk of marijuana-impaired driving appears higher than previously understood," he writes. "In states that have legalized recreational marijuana, fatal car accidents where drivers have only THC in their blood and not alcohol or other drugs are soaring." But unlike for alcohol, there’s no standard impairment threshold for pot in a breath, blood, urine or saliva tests. You could find THC today in the body of someone who last smoked on New Year's Eve.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R1PRN0PFBJKVIU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B07H445LQ6

[tymorial]

20. Oh not caffeine!?

You mean caffeine might cause psychosis which could lead to violence? Well holy shit. Something must be done! We can't have people taking something that might causes psychosis which leads to violence!

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

26. Art Linkletter..2.0

[Eyeball_Kid]

27. Grade A bullshit. Know your data, folks! n/t

[walkingman]

29. Amazes me when drunks think weed is worse in any way. Pure propaganda.

[Onyrleft]

31. Hey; if you smoke this stuff you could wind up like Paul McCartney.

Be a good kid and abstain like Ted Nugent does.

[skylucy]

33. Yes! +1000

[still_one]

32. Not going to debate the possible psychological aspects, but no one can convince me that inhaling

any kind of smoke is good for your lungs

However, if someone is so-inclined, I have no problem, and believe it should be legalized

If I was so inclined to take marijuana, it would be through its active component, THC, either through a pill or patch.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

37. You're supposed to inhale it??

Now it makes sense...

[still_one]

39. People are free to inhale whatever they want, it just isn't for me

[Voltaire2]

41. Nobody has to do that any more.

[still_one]

42. There are mutlitple method of administration, but I would suspect quite a large number still

administer it through inhalation.


However, in my initial post, I indicated if I was to take it, I wouldn't consume it through inhalation that is all

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. Now you tell me!!

[RGinNJ]

38. I call BS!

I have chronic Cluster Headaches, the pain from them is totally dablibating. Because of that I've developed a very bad anxiety disorders (I'm afraid of the pain). My military doctors have given me permission to smoke all I can afford.

[Voltaire2]

40. Berenson's book is a farce.

He has trotted out every statistics travesty trope in existence.

Speaking for everyone who has been actually harmed by pot prohibition drug warriors: “fuck off and die”.

Your time has expired.