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Should we fight to fix un-democratic electoral college (Original Post) rainy Aug 2017 OP
First make election day a holiday sharedvalues Aug 2017 #1
Seems like a good start to me. BigmanPigman Aug 2017 #2
Has anyone looked at the name this nation bears? JayhawkSD Aug 2017 #3
If we're being honest.... spicysista Aug 2017 #4
"So, pretending that the way we currently approach presidential elections is pure and symbolic...." JayhawkSD Aug 2017 #10
One word on things that are undemocratic: superdelegates NotASurfer Aug 2017 #5
I am glad we have super delegates. murielm99 Aug 2017 #6
That sounds like what the Electoral College was supposed to do, NotASurfer Aug 2017 #7
Times have changed. murielm99 Aug 2017 #8
But, but... czarjak Aug 2017 #9

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
1. First make election day a holiday
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 10:20 AM
Aug 2017

And allow same day registration everywhere.
Then give the citizens of DC, the biggest taxpayers in the country, two senators and a rep.
Then increase early voting.
And also get rid of the electoral college.

BigmanPigman

(51,632 posts)
2. Seems like a good start to me.
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 10:28 AM
Aug 2017

Also, paper ballots, no gerrymandering, and preemptive measures put into place for election hacking and interference.

 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
3. Has anyone looked at the name this nation bears?
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 10:59 AM
Aug 2017

The United States of America? We are a federation of states, and the constitution reflects that in every aspect of our federal governance. In no aspect of our governance does a national popular vote carry any weight, and in no aspect of governance is it even measured by any federal governmental body.

If the electoral college is un-democratic, then every aspect of our government is undemocratic and we need to scrap our constitution in its entirety.

In passing legislation, votes of the states, weighted by relative population, are counted to determine whether or not the legislation passes.

In confirming appointments to the judicial bench and other federal appointments, votes of the states, in this case not weighted for relative population since only the Senate is involved, are counted to determine whether or not the appointment is confirmed.

In matters of impeachment of a federal officeholder, votes of the states, weighted by relative population, are counted to determine whether or not the officeholder should or should not be brought up on charges.

Once charged, votes of the states, in this case again not weighted for relative population since only the Senate is involved, are taken to determine whether or not the office holder is removed from office.

In amending our constitution, again it is voting by the states that initiates and carries out that process.

At no time in any of the above does the government or media ever count or report on the overall vote of the national population on these matters, because the national popular vote is not determinative in the decision. It is very common that laws pass which are highly unpopular and which would have been voted down by the public, and voted down by very large margins, but the media never comments on this at all, let alone beats the drums endlessly on it.

In matters of electing a president, votes of the states, weighted by relative population, are counted to determine who shall become the next president. This is entirely consistent with the overall structure of the governance of a federation of states.

In this aspect of governance, and only in this aspect of governance, the media has decided that we should not be a federation of states but should be a popular democracy. The founders had very good reasons for not doing that, but if they were wrong, then they were wrong. If we are to be governed by the popular vote than let's be governed by the popular vote.

But picking and choosing is for grade school children. We can't be a federation of states for some thing and a popular democracy for others. At some point We Democrats have to grow up and recognize that governance involves responsibility as well as privilege.



spicysista

(1,663 posts)
4. If we're being honest....
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 11:27 AM
Aug 2017

There's very little about our presidential electoral process today that was envisioned by our founders. The truth is that we have long since departed from the ideas of our visionary founding fathers. Okay, I'm being a bit sarcastic. But seriously.... the founders never meant for everyone to vote. So, pretending that the way we currently approach presidential elections is pure and symbolic of our founding is not useful.
Individual states enacted our current winner take all electoral college system. They can change the way those electoral college votes are given, proportionally or whatever.

 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
10. "So, pretending that the way we currently approach presidential elections is pure and symbolic...."
Mon Aug 28, 2017, 01:13 AM
Aug 2017

Which is not what I said. I was refuting the argument that the method of electing the president is un-democratic, and stating that it is no more un-democratic than is any other part of governance as set forth in our constitution. Symbolism is highly overrated and has nothing to do with my point. There is nothing symbolic about this nation being a federation of states; it is what we are, factually, functionally and in actuality.

That "the founders never meant for everyone to vote" is a distraction; who or how many people vote in the process of determining how each state casts its votes is irrelevant to the validity of the electoral college.

That each state has chosen to cast all of its votes on a "winner take all basis" is a valid criticism of the procedure. Has anyone done the evaluation of the 2016 election to determine the result if all 50 states allocated its electoral vote on a proportional basis based on the popular vote in each state? I have not read of anyone having done that, which leads me to believe that it would not have resulted in a Clinton victory. Maybe I'm wrong. When I have some spare time maybe I'll do that leg work.

As a point of information, in matters of legislation the state voice is split, but the split has little to do with the state's popular vote.

NotASurfer

(2,155 posts)
5. One word on things that are undemocratic: superdelegates
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 11:50 AM
Aug 2017

Right now, I bet some Repubs are wishing they'd still had 'em.

Sure, it would have kept Nazi voting bloc at home, and it would have meant Gov Kasich making a concession speech to President-elect Clinton last November, but we all could have lived with that.

Sigh..like the cartoon version of Boondocks said to close out one episode, it's nice to dream

murielm99

(30,765 posts)
6. I am glad we have super delegates.
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 01:15 PM
Aug 2017

I know quite a few repubbies who wish they had them. It would have prevented 45.

In our case, it prevents blowout losses and gives the respect and leadership roles to the party's leaders and hard workers who have earned those spots. I don't care if newbies don't like it. Let them go start their own party or weaken someone else's party.

NotASurfer

(2,155 posts)
7. That sounds like what the Electoral College was supposed to do,
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 02:14 PM
Aug 2017

make sure we got leaders of suitable judgement, character, and temperament.

How did it get so messed up?

murielm99

(30,765 posts)
8. Times have changed.
Sun Aug 27, 2017, 03:11 PM
Aug 2017

We need to get rid of the electoral college. It may not happen in my lifetime, but it is needed.

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