An Invisible US Hand Leading to War? Turkey’s Downing of a Russian Jet was an Act of Madness

[newthinking]

An Invisible US Hand Leading to War? Turkey’s Downing of a Russian Jet was an Act of Madness

by Dave Lindorff

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/24/an-invisible-us-hand-leading-to-war-turkeys-downing-of-a-russian-jet-was-an-act-of-madness/

In considering the terrifying but also sadly predictable news of a Russian fighter jet being downed by two Turkish fighters, let’s start with one almost certain assumption — an assumption that no doubt is also being made by the Russian government: Turkey’s action, using US-supplied F-16 planes, was taken with the full knowledge and advance support of the US. In fact, given Turkey’s vassal status as a member of US-dominated NATO, it could well be that Ankara was put up to this act of brinksmanship by the US.

What makes the downing of the Russian jet, and the reported death of at least one of its two pilots (the other was reportedly captured alive by pro-turkish Turkmen fighters on the Syrian side of the Syria-Turkish border, and will presumably be returned to Russia) so dangerous is that as a member of NATO, supposedly a “mutual assistance” treaty that binds all members to come to the defense of one that is attacked, if Russia were to retaliate by downing a Turkish military plane, NATO countries including the US would be obligated to come to Turkey’s defense.

Russia knows this, and that is why so far the Russian response to the downing has been muted. Had it been a Jordanian, Saudi or Kuwaiti jet that downed the Russian SU-24, Russia’s response would have been instantaneous. The guilty party would have had some of its planes shot down, or perhaps even bombed on the ground. But President Putin so far has limited himself to demanding a meeting, to warning that Russian-Turkish economic relations would be threatened, etc.

Continued:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/24/an-invisible-us-hand-leading-to-war-turkeys-downing-of-a-russian-jet-was-an-act-of-madness/

[forsaken mortal]

1. Russia and Turkey had relatively good relations until the incident

Russia just banned visa-free travel into Russia for Turkish citizens, pretty much killed Russian tourism in Turkey, which is Turkey's second largest population of tourists, and cancelled a number of construction projects there as well as military agreements. I do wonder if Turkey believed the plane to be Syrian instead of Russian, but in any case, it was still a hotheaded and highly irregular move.

[cheapdate]

2. I don't see it as a hotheaded or irregular move.

Turkey is justifiably concerned about foreign warplanes operating in it's airspace. One of the most basic functions of a sovereign state is to protect and defend its territorial integrity. Russia would do the same to any NATO warplanes operating in their airspace.

[hack89]

3. Another factor in Russia's response is that Turkey has a better military

with more modern weapons and better trained personnel. Short of nukes Russia is at a disadvantage militarily to Turkey.

[Jack-o-Lantern]

4. Turkey should be expelled from NATO for this reckless, dangerous, and totally unnecessary folly.

[flamingdem]

5. It seems extreme to say the US had a hand, that's not Obama's style

I've seen that elsewhere today, maybe even Putin said this. But I did see that Obama was not coming down hard on Turkey. One must wonder if the idea was to put Putin in his place once it happened it was taken advantage of - Putin is on his own except for Iran? From what I saw there was no agreement reached -- now Putin sounds like he's in deal making mode. The deal being bye bye Assad and Putin gets some access and control over the port.

[flamingdem]

6. Adding this from the Guardian - thought these comments are interesting

>>Sultan showed way too early not only his true colors, but also that he is, as Texans say, “is all hat and no cattle”.
It is hard to count everything he lost for the sake of one macho moment. Putin will no longer try to balance between Turkey and Kurds. That’s why Kurds are rejoicing. Russian tourism and trade is lost. His son’s business with ISIS oil is over. His say in future political settlement in Syria is lost.

What’s more, he doomed the very terrorists he ostensibly defended: Russia decimated Turkoman forces in North West Syria by fierce bombardment, and the survivors are now surrendering in droves to Syrian government forces. Russia killed all field commanders who filmed themselves participating in the murder of the pilot who parachuted down (this is against Geneva conventions, but Geneva conventions do not apply to terrorists). Syria is closing the part of Turkish border sultan used to rearm and resupply ISIS and other terrorists.

Strategically, having pushed Russia firmly to the Kurdish side, he might have accelerated the creation of independent Kurdistan. For those who don’t know, Kurds constitute about 1/3 of Turkey population. Erdogan emasculated Turkish army by his attempts to Islamize it, which explains its lack of success against Kurds inside Turkey, despite clear advantage in heavy weapons. There is war going on there, which is not reported in mainstream media.
Overall, it was monumental stupidity on his part. He can’t change anything now: life is irreversible.

[Joe Chi Minh]

8. You forgot the sultan has virtually, formally 'invited' Russian

imposition of a 'no fly', exclusion zone, whether de facto or de jure.

[yurbud]

9. Obama's style has been to use surrogate groups and countries where possible.

[rafeh1]

7. Soviets also did overflights over Pakistan repeatedly.

Soviets also did overflights over Pakistan repeatedly. Its only when Pakistan f16 shot down Soviet planes with us approval that overfights stopped