It's 460 AD in Rome: This Won't Be Fixed

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

By Paul Rosenberg

. . . .The “fall of Rome,” of course, was far more complex than we learned in school, but through all the many years of its decline, Rome was full of well-meaning people trying to reform and save it. And by the way, among the people who tried the hardest to keep the Roman game going were the Goths. They tried hard to keep Rome operational… and they failed too.

Let me be clear on this: Once ruling hierarchies get beyond a certain point, they cannot be reformed. And I am sure that the modern West is beyond that point.

- Do we really believe that central bankers will just lay down their monopolies?
- Can we seriously expect a hundred trillion dollars of debt to be liquidated without any consequences?
- Do we actually believe that politicians will walk away from their power and apologize for abusing us?
- Do we really think that the corporations who own Congress will just give up the game that is enriching them?
- Does anyone seriously believe that the NSA is going to say, “Gee, that Fourth Amendment really is kind of clear, and everything we do violates it… so, everyone here is fired and the last person out will please turn off the lights”?
- And does anyone believe that the military-industrial complex will stop encouraging war, or that corporate media will stop worshiping the state, or that your local sheriff will apologize for training his cops to be vicious beasts?
- Do we really believe that public school systems will ever stop lauding the state that pays all its bills?

I could go on, but I think my point is made: This system will never allow itself to be seriously reformed. Trying to fix this is like trying to revive a long-dead corpse. . . .

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42610.htm

[HooptieWagon]

1. Meh.

We faced big challenges during the Revolution, the Civil War, the Robber Baron Era, the Great Depression, and WW2. We survived. We'll get through this neo Robber Baron era too. All it's gonna take is for us to be aware, and make smart decisions.

[truebluegreen]

2. We better start making smart decisions in a hurry:

none of the crises you list had an existential threat attached to them, and yes, climate change has the potential to be just that bad.

[Warpy]

3. Squandering resources on constant warfare that no one wanted nor the empire needed

for either security or the protection of trade routes certainly pushed them beyond any hope of salvation. Once Rome finally fell to the point that everybody just said "screw it" and moved out to the countryside where they could grow food instead of begging for crumbs in the street, people in the provinces tried to keep some of the infrastructure running, but even that soon fell away.

I really do see much of the same things happening now, especially the rich becoming so unimaginably rich that they've started to consider themselves a species apart from the rest of us. They're the ones insisting on boondoggles like the F-35 and proxy wars all over the planet.

Whether we simply lop off the top and redistribute what's left after the next crash and keep the whole thing going or we say to hell with it and stake out our few acres to farm and hope the new crop of warlords leave us alone is anyone's guess.

The present system is too wasteful, topheavy, and overcomplicated to survive much longer.

[Kip Humphrey]

4. someone is in need... of feeling the Bern!

[Betty Karlson]

5. By 460 AD, Rome was no longer the centre of the empire

Byzantium was the centre from 314 AD onward.

So if the USA falls, that would be the equivalent of 1453 - and we are not there yet, not by a long way... Rome's 475 would happen if the UK fell apart or so. Could happen, but apart from a few cultural shockwaves it won't be that important - neither then nor now.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

6. The USSR fell mainly because to public refused to believe in it anymore....

We're damn near there.

[jalan48]

7. I've wondered this about the secret national security state for awhile.

I'm not sure these folks get 'voted' out of their positions of power. These are the same people that spied on the Senate Committee which was entrusted to investigate them, with impunity. I think Americans are very naive about the current set up.

[Fairgo]

8. systems and cycles

History is a spiral dance...

[CTyankee]

9. I was about to say that...reading history you read about the rise, decline and fall of

empires over the stretch of many centuries...greece, rome and on and on.

[Red Oak]

10. An exciting challenge!

I am often fatalistic on the outcome of our democratic/capitalistic experiment in the U.S. but then get to thinking in bigger terms and it cheers me up.

When I look at the world as a whole there are a bunch of things are are truly horrible, but much to be proud of, too.

Never before have so many lived on the planet in a state of general well being with good health, a disposable income, leisure time, and a generally good life. This is primarily a result of the huge increases in prosperity in the developing nations over the past few decades. The trend estimates are for this improvement to continue dramatically.

I marvel at the opportunities ahead. Imagine the coming changes to our global civilization. It can certainly be a dystopian future, but I don't think we are on that trajectory and the people of DU prove that daily.

Yes, some things, many things, are bad, but many, many things are good and getting better, daily, on a global basis.

[world wide wally]

11. I don't see America falling with a thud.

I do see it devolving in a mind numbing manner with more of a crumble than a crash.
A lot like what is going on today.

[MisterP]

12. or 234 AD, perhaps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century
(they've been saying and giving good reasons "Rome will fall" since 1889--that's where we got the spirit of "The War of the Worlds&quot

[modrepub]

13. A republic, if we can keep it

I find the authors choice of dates somewhat odd and am not sure if this date was chosen for a specific reason. The western Roman Emperor in 460AD was Majorian. He started as a weak usurper who inherited a crumbling state full of rebellious provinces, court officials and barbarian generals. He skillfully gathered his resources and methodically brought most of the empire back in line. A failed campaign to recover the African provinces taken by the Vandals doomed his reign and after the destruction of the Roman fleet his troops rebelled and executed him. No western Roman Emperor after Majorian was able to put themselves in a position to regather the empire.

I see faint parallels between our current president and this emperor; there seems to be a lot of vested interests doing their best to resist changes that in my opinion need to be taken. Not sure if this was intentional or just coincidence.

Good writeup on Majorian: http://www.roman-emperors.org/major.htm

[starroute]

14. How did public schools get lumped in with the NSA and the military-industrial complex?

That inclusion seems to betray a certain bias on the part of the writer. Does he really believe that public schools are an abusive system that exists only to enrich teachers and administrators at the taxpayer's expense and sucks up to the state as a way of keeping the money flowing?

Bizarre -- and casts doubt on the rest.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Because it's written by a libertarian who hates public schools and the government

Here's what he wrote a month ago:

HOW TO SPEAK TO THE BRAINWASHED

In all of human history, there may be no greater conditioning system than our modern government schools (including all the private schools that follow the same pattern). From infancy to adulthood, it affects most human minds in the West. And I dare guess that 98% of my readers bear its scars.

So, you must start by understanding that these “brainwashed” people have spent a huge portion of their lives inside a massive mind-warp. Don’t be too quick to toss them aside. Learn patience. Breaking out of their mold is scary, and it takes time.

http://www.freemansperspective.com/speak-to-the-brainwashed/

(note the websites to on the right that quote him: LewRockwell.com, Daily Paul, Freedom's Phoenix (just what you'd expect from the name), Libertopia ...)

[starroute]

16. I understand that libertarians don't like public schools

But to imply that the school system only exists because teachers are out to enrich themselves and have a powerful lobbying arm to keep the federal money flowing seems like a stretch even for them.

It's comparable to the "climate change was invented by a bunch of scientists as a way of getting grant money" fantasy.

But I guess when all you know is greed, you have to explain everything in those terms.

[Chan790]

17. No.

This is not that. It's not Rome. It's more like the sunsetting of the British Empire; the point where London realized that the whole fucking jig was unsustainable and let it fall apart as they increasingly embraced not being a global superpower. The Americans were more than happy to take up that mantle as the militarists and conservatives of Britain ran themselves aground. There was little conservative relevance in the period between Churchhill and Thatcher. There was little focus on MIC as the British economy decentralized and new priorities drove defense spending down. The same will happen here...when we have to choose between the homeland and military aid for Europe and Israel...we'll going to choose domestic, even as the conservatives gnash and wail about it as they dig themselves a relevance-pit.

That is how modern empire dies...not with a bang but a whimper. South America and SE Asia will pick up the empire gauntlet and sally forth. The whole dance will go on and in 30 years, we'll look back, realize we're no longer the global hegemon and say/think "remember when we thought that was a good idea" as we roll our eyes at the new superpowers and how dumb they are for wanting to be hegemonic.