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TexasTowelie

(112,246 posts)
Tue Jul 28, 2015, 09:07 PM Jul 2015

What "we" knew about the Nazis

Supporters of the British monarchy are furious about photos showing the 7-year-old future Queen of England giving the Nazi salute in the early 1930s, apparently under the instruction of her uncle, Edward VIII. But there was another adult in the picture, points out Michael Rosen, in an article for the revolutionary socialism in the 21st century website.

THE real problem posed by the photos of the future queen sieg-heiling is not whether she was too young to know what she was doing, but why her mother, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, was doing it, too. I've noticed on Twitter, and indeed in the discussion on Newsnight, that the default defense of all this is that 1933-34, when the photos were taken, was "too early" for Brits to know what was going on in Germany. After all, the argument goes, this is long before the awful truth of the Holocaust became known. True.

So really the question to ask--and it's a question that seems to have been far too hard for the backroom staff at Newsnight to have figured out--is how were the Nazis going down amongst the public in 1933/34?

First, to put some important matters on the map: By the middle of 1933, the Nazis had abolished democracy with the Enabling Acts and the Reichstag Decrees; they had set about the immediate, pressing task of beheading the labor movement by imprisoning or killing trade unionists, socialists and communists. The concentration camp Dachau was used to imprison opponents (or people deemed to be opponents), and immediately, thousands of working-class militants were put into hard labor gangs.

In Britain, in 1932, Oswald Mosley founded the British Union of Fascists based on fascist parties across Europe and was given great coverage in the British press for his ideas, even as his thugs started terrorizing Jews in the East End of London and starting up provocations in the West End, where there was a strong Jewish presence in the "shmatte" (rag) trade. From a purely personal point of view, this is where some of what has been said about the Royals' sieg-heiling is so offensive. Whenever mainstream journalists and commentators talk about racism, they very frequently lapse into a commentary that is itself racist in the use of the very word "people." So we are often told that "people" were racist or "people" were anti-Semitic. This is both offensive to those people who aren't or weren't racist, but also leaves out of the category "people" the very people on the receiving end of the racism or anti-Semitism! So in the trope that "people" didn't know about the Nazis' anti-Semitism, the fact that Jews did know about it is left out! The papers of the Jewish establishment were quite vocal and explicit about the Nazis' anti-Semitism, but this awareness is left out of the picture in the rush to explain away the Royals' salutes.

Read more: http://socialistworker.org/2015/07/28/what-we-knew-about-the-nazis
8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What "we" knew about the Nazis (Original Post) TexasTowelie Jul 2015 OP
Thanks for sharing this. kristopher Jul 2015 #1
Salute was how Americans said pledge of allegiance unc70 Jul 2015 #2
Do you actually remember this? I am not old enough. daybranch Jul 2015 #4
I don't remember the Bellamy Salute (Nazi style) unc70 Jul 2015 #8
The English aristocracy and the crownheads of Europe supported the Nazis daybranch Jul 2015 #3
daybranch Diclotican Jul 2015 #7
When we were Nazis: marble falls Jul 2015 #5
Even more here: marble falls Jul 2015 #6

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
1. Thanks for sharing this.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:19 AM
Jul 2015

At this point and time, I don't think there can possibly be enough grounded discussion of what the face of fascism actually looked like in operation. I'd hope that the area's of life outside the atrocities would be covered thoroughly so that the parallels to the world of today can be understood and acknowledged. When we focus centrally on the homicidal side of the Nazi regime, it tends to push out of the discussion the link between the nature of wealth at the time and their structuring of civil power to achieve wealth's ends.

unc70

(6,115 posts)
2. Salute was how Americans said pledge of allegiance
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:37 PM
Jul 2015

Remember that the "Nazi" salute was how American school children pledged allegiance to the flag of the U.S. in those days.

daybranch

(1,309 posts)
4. Do you actually remember this? I am not old enough.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:15 PM
Jul 2015

Do you have pictures or some other corroboration?

unc70

(6,115 posts)
8. I don't remember the Bellamy Salute (Nazi style)
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 05:33 PM
Jul 2015

Last edited Sun Aug 9, 2015, 03:38 PM - Edit history (1)

My siblings do. The Bellamy Salute was the official way to say the pledge from its creation until 1942. There are lots of pictures and videos online. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

I learned and still say the version of the pledge without "under God".

daybranch

(1,309 posts)
3. The English aristocracy and the crownheads of Europe supported the Nazis
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:11 PM
Jul 2015

and together with rich industrialists from in the USA bankrolled their autobahn and infrastructure and other projects. They did this to provide a Nazi opposition to the threat they feared after the execution of the Czar and the potential spread of communism. The English royal family clearly saw a personal danger but this should never have been allowed to unleash the Nazis on the world..

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
7. daybranch
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:18 PM
Jul 2015

daybranch

Some royals who had a crown supported the germans - our King Haakon the 7th - warned first time about Hitler in 1934 - at a time when he had just imposed his will on Germany - and was a long way from what he became later on - and he, and his son, Crown prince Olav, the late king Olav V - continued to warn against Hitler, Our king Haakon even had Main Kampf in the library - and was reading it - in german no less - as he could read and write german - and continued to warn against the nazis - all the time up to when Germany attacked Norway in 1940 - and the royal family - most of the government - and far to many civilians had to flee to other places... In fact Hagan the 7th wrote in his copy of Main kampf a few notes, where he stated many times how disgusted he was of what he was reading about - and he might have been one of the few crowned heads who know where his allegiance was - to the Norwegian pepole... After all - he was elected king by popular vote in 1905.... And continued to a king, for ever one, to 1958, when he died of old age...

And our late King Haakon the 7th was no friends of the communist either - as his first cousin - Nicolai II of Russia was deposed - and killed by the bolsjevichs - and in fact stated when the news about the murder of the emperors familiy - that no member of the norwigian royal familiy was ever to visit the Soviet Union - a decree who was in act as long as the Soviet Union existed - and the first royal who was wisiting Russia - in 1995 was the grandson of Haakon - our King Harald V of Norway..

Diclotican

marble falls

(57,102 posts)
5. When we were Nazis:
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:16 PM
Jul 2015

German American Bund
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
German American Bund Amerikadeutscher Bund,
Amerikadeutscher Volksbund
German American Bund.png
Flag of the German American Bund
Abbreviation AV
Predecessor Friends of New Germany
Formation March 1936
Founder Fritz Julius Kuhn
Founded at Buffalo, New York
Dissolved 1941; 74 years ago
Headquarters 178 East 85th Street
New York City[1]
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v t e

The German American Bund, or German American Federation (German: Amerikadeutscher Bund; Amerikadeutscher Volksbund, AV), was an American Nazi organization established in 1936 to succeed Friends of New Germany (FONG), the new name being chosen to emphasise the group's American credentials after press criticism that the organisation was unpatriotic.[2] The Bund was to consist only of American citizens of German descent.[3] Its main goal was to promote a favorable view of Nazi Germany.


Friends of New Germany
Main article: Friends of New Germany

In May 1933, Nazi Deputy Führer Rudolf Hess gave German immigrant and German Nazi Party member Heinz Spanknöbel authority to form an American Nazi organization.[4] Shortly thereafter, with help from the German consul in New York City, Spanknöbel created the Friends of New Germany[4] by merging two older organizations in the United States, Gau-USA and the Free Society of Teutonia, which were both small groups with only a few hundred members each. The FONG was based in New York but had a strong presence in Chicago.[4] Members wore a uniform, a white shirt and black trousers for men with a black hat festooned with a red symbol. Women members wore a white blouse and a black skirt.[5]

The organization led by Spanknöbel was openly pro-Nazi, and engaged in activities such as storming the German language New Yorker Staats-Zeitung with the demand that Nazi-sympathetic articles be published, and the infiltration of other non-political German-American organizations. One of the Friends early initiatives was to counter, with propaganda, the Jewish boycott of German goods which started in March 1933.

In an internal battle for control of the Friends, Spanknöbel was ousted as leader and subsequently deported in October 1933 because he had failed to register as a foreign agent.[4]

At the same time, Congressman Samuel Dickstein – who many years later was revealed to have been a Soviet spy – was Chairman of the Committee on Naturalization and Immigration, where he became aware of the substantial number of foreigners legally and illegally entering and residing in the country, and the growing anti-Semitism along with vast amounts of anti-Semitic literature being distributed in the country. This led him to investigate independently the activities of Nazi and other fascist groups, leading to the formation of the Special Committee on Un-American Activities Authorized to Investigate Nazi Propaganda and Certain Other Propaganda Activities. Throughout the rest of 1934, the Committee conducted hearings, bringing before it most of the major figures in the American fascist movement.[6] Dickstein's investigation concluded that the Friends represented a branch of German dictator Adolf Hitler's Nazi Party in America.[7][8]

The organization existed into the mid-1930s, although it always remained small, with a membership of between 5,000–10,000, consisting mostly of German citizens living in America and German emigrants who only recently had become citizens.[4] In December 1935, Rudolf Hess ordered all German citizens to leave the FONG and recalled all of its leaders to Germany .[4]
Bund activities
German American Bund parade on East 86th St., New York City, October 30, 1939

In March 1936, the German American Bund was established as a follow-up organization for the Friends of New Germany in Buffalo, New York.[4][9] The Bund elected a German-born American citizen Fritz Julius Kuhn as its leader (Bundesführer).[10] Kuhn was a veteran of the Bavarian infantry during World War I and an Alter Kämpfer (old fighter) of the Nazi Party, who in 1934 was granted American citizenship. Kuhn was initially effective as a leader and was able to unite the organization and expand its membership but came to be seen simply as an incompetent swindler and liar.[4]

The administrative structure of the Bund mimicked the regional administrative subdivision of the Nazi Party. The United States was divided into three Gaue: Gau Ost (East), Gau West and Gau Midwest.[11] Together the three Gaue comprised 69 Ortsgruppen (local groups): 40 in Gau Ost (17 in New York), 10 in Gau West and 19 in Gau Midwest.[11] Each Gau had its own Gauleiter and staff to direct the Bund operations in the region in accordance with the führerprinzip.[11] The Bund's national headquarters was located at 178 East 85th Street in the New York City borough of Manhattan.[1]

The Bund established a number of training camps, including Camp Nordland in Sussex County, New Jersey, Camp Siegfried in Yaphank, New York, Camp Hindenburg in Grafton, Wisconsin, Deutschhorst Country Club in Sellersville, Pennsylvania,[12] Camp Bergwald in Bloomingdale, NJ[4][13][14][15][12] and Camp Highland in New York state. The Bund held rallies with Nazi insignia and procedures such as the Hitler salute and attacked the administration of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Jewish groups, Communism, "Moscow-directed" trade unions and American boycotts of German goods.[4][16] The organization claimed to show its loyalty to America by displaying the flag of the United States at Bund meetings, and declared that George Washington was "the first Fascist" who did not believe democracy would work.[17]

Kuhn and a few other Bundmen traveled to Berlin to attend the 1936 Summer Olympics. During the trip he visited the Reich Chancellery, where his picture was taken with Hitler.[4] This act did not constitute an official Nazi approval for Kuhn's organization: German Ambassador to the United States Hans-Heinrich Dieckhoff expressed his disapproval and concern over the group to Berlin, causing distrust between the Bund and the Nazi regime.[4] The organization received no financial or verbal support from Germany. In response to the outrage of Jewish war veterans, Congress in 1938 passed the Foreign Agents Registration Act requiring foreign agents to register with the State Department. On March 1, 1938 the Nazi government decreed that no Reichsdeutsche [German nationals] could be a member of the Bund, and that no Nazi emblems were to be used by the organization.[4] This was done both to appease the U.S. and to distance Germany from the Bund, which was increasingly a cause of embarrassment with its rhetoric and actions.[4]
German American Bund rally poster at Madison Square Garden, February 20, 1939

Arguably, the zenith of the Bund's activities was the rally at Madison Square Garden in New York City on February 20, 1939.[18] Some 20,000 people attended and heard Kuhn criticize President Roosevelt by repeatedly referring to him as "Frank D. Rosenfeld", calling his New Deal the "Jew Deal" and denouncing what he believed to be Bolshevik-Jewish American leadership. Most shocking to American sensibilities was the outbreak of violence between protesters and Bund storm troopers.
Decline

In 1939, a New York tax investigation determined that Kuhn had embezzled $14,000 from the Bund. The Bund did not seek to have Kuhn prosecuted, operating on the principle (Führerprinzip), that the leader had absolute power. However, New York City's district attorney prosecuted him in an attempt to cripple the Bund. On December 5, 1939, Kuhn was sentenced to two and a half to five years in prison for tax evasion and embezzlement.[19]

New Bund leaders replaced Kuhn, most notably Gerhard Kunze, but only for brief periods. A year after the outbreak of World War II, Congress enacted a peacetime military draft in September 1940. The Bund counseled members of draft age to evade conscription, a criminal offense punishable by up to five years in jail and a $10,000 fine. Gerhard Kunze fled to Mexico in November 1941.[5]

U.S. Congressman Martin Dies (D-TX) and his House Committee on Un-American Activities were active in denying any Nazi-sympathetic organization the ability to operate freely during World War II. In the last week of December 1942, led by journalist Dorothy Thompson, fifty leading German-Americans (including baseball icon Babe Ruth) signed a "Christmas Declaration by men and women of German ancestry" condemning Nazism, which appeared in ten major American daily newspapers.

While Kuhn was in prison, his citizenship was canceled on June 1, 1943.[20] Upon his release after 43 months in state prison, Kuhn was re-arrested on June 21, 1943 as an enemy alien and interned by the federal government at a camp in Crystal City, Texas. After the war, Kuhn was interned at Ellis Island and deported to Germany on September 15, 1945.[20] He died on December 14, 1951, in Munich, Germany.
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