The Atlantic Axis and the Making of a War in Ukraine

[newthinking]

The Atlantic Axis and the Making of a War in Ukraine
http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/30/atlantic-axis-making-war-ukraine/

Christof Lehmann (NEO) : The war in Ukraine became predictable when the great Muslim Brotherhood Project in Syria failed during the summer of 2012. It became unavoidable in December 2012, when the European Union and Russia failed to agree on the EU’s 3rd Energy Package. The geopolitical dynamics which are driving the war in Ukraine were known in the early 1980s.

-------------------------------------------------------

The War in Ukraine Began in Libya and Syria.

In 2007 the discovery of the world’s largest known reserves of natural gas, shared by Qatar and Iran, led to the Great Muslim Brotherhood Project that was sold under the trade mark ”The Arab Spring”.

A joint Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian pipeline project was supposed to transport Iranian gas from the PARS gas fields in the Persian Gulf to Syria’s eastern Mediterranean coast and further on to continental Europe. It was this development that played midwife to the birth of the Great Muslim Brotherhood Project.

The completion of the Iran – Iraq – Syria pipeline would have caused a cohort of developments which were unacceptable to the US, UK, Israel and Qatar. Several continental European countries, including Germany, Italy, Austria, Czech Republic saw much more favorably at it. Together with the Russian gas which the EU received via Ukraine and the North Stream pipeline, the EU would have been able to cover some 50 percent of its requirements for natural gas via Iranian and Russian sources.

Full Story here:
http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/30/atlantic-axis-making-war-ukraine/

[The Magistrate]

1. Ah, Yes, This Fellow, Sir

From his 'greatest hits' file....

"An investigation into the details of the massacre on more than 40 protesters in the Ukrainian city of Odessa, who rejected to recognize the legality of the US / EU – backed post-coup government in Kiev. This photo and video documentation was compiled by the editor of Strategic Culture Foundation and reveals that the massacre was a premeditated act of mass murder – a mass casualty event, consistent with NATO Unconventional Warfare Doctrine. Text edited by nsnbc. Viewer discretion is advised – Christof Lehmann, editor-in-chief, nsnbc international."

"The perpetrators “set the scene” as typical in Hollywood-style US/NATO/Israeli false flag operations. The massacre in Odessa, the arrangement of the bodies, is bearing the hallmarks of a “mass casualty event” consistent with US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine."

"Note: according to one of the main versions of what happened on May 2 in Odessa, the Right Sector thugs performed a false flag operation. They put St. George’s Ribbons (symbols of anti-Maidan federalism supporters) and organized violent provocations against Maidan supporters (i.e. against their own allies), in order to later blame anti-Maidan supporters and make them look responsible for death of such many people."

The man gives Alex Jones a sound run for his money as an analyst of current events.

[newthinking]

2. Want to compare your credentials with his?

Dr Christof Lehmann, born 1958 in West Germany, was Advisor for Research in Psycho-traumatology to Yasser Arafat and survivors of the Sabra Shatila massacre in 1982, secured a doctoral degree in clinical psychology in 1986. He was adviser to Joshua Nkomo on the impact of torture and psychological trauma on conflict solution and reconciliation in Zimbabwe's politics in 1986-1990, and advised Nelson Mandela on social politics, public mental health and the effect of psychological trauma on peace and reconciliation in 1994-1997.

I like to check before I give a source credence. Dr. Lehmann has a very distinguished history that goes far beyond this bio and has been around important people, events, and is himself been part of those histories. It is a shame that you feel it so important to try to discredit anyone that does not agree with your politics. You do your own mind a disservice.

[The Magistrate]

3. That Hardly Helps His Credibilty, Sir

If anything, it sinks it further.

The comments cited speak for themselves: if he is credible, they are fact; if they are not fact, he is not credible.

And let us be clear, Sir: by endorsing his credibilty, this is what you are endorsing as statements of fact....

"An investigation into the details of the massacre on more than 40 protesters in the Ukrainian city of Odessa, who rejected to recognize the legality of the US / EU – backed post-coup government in Kiev. This photo and video documentation was compiled by the editor of Strategic Culture Foundation and reveals that the massacre was a premeditated act of mass murder – a mass casualty event, consistent with NATO Unconventional Warfare Doctrine. Text edited by nsnbc. Viewer discretion is advised – Christof Lehmann, editor-in-chief, nsnbc international."

"The perpetrators “set the scene” as typical in Hollywood-style US/NATO/Israeli false flag operations. The massacre in Odessa, the arrangement of the bodies, is bearing the hallmarks of a “mass casualty event” consistent with US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine."

"Note: according to one of the main versions of what happened on May 2 in Odessa, the Right Sector thugs performed a false flag operation. They put St. George’s Ribbons (symbols of anti-Maidan federalism supporters) and organized violent provocations against Maidan supporters (i.e. against their own allies), in order to later blame anti-Maidan supporters and make them look responsible for death of such many people."

[newthinking]

4. Your point is groundless.. not to mention off topic

Care to quote from the official investigation of the Odessa Massacre? Oh, there was none was there?

Anyway, I am sure that people can check / read and make their own determination.
How about we leave it at that and not get into one of those all too frequent tit/tats. Those can be quite boring.

[The Magistrate]

5. 'If You Can't Tell Shit From Shinola, Don't Order Tuna In A French Restaurant'

No official investigative report is needed, Sir, to know that these statements are high-test barnyard effluvia:

"An investigation into the details of the massacre on more than 40 protesters in the Ukrainian city of Odessa, who rejected to recognize the legality of the US / EU – backed post-coup government in Kiev. This photo and video documentation was compiled by the editor of Strategic Culture Foundation and reveals that the massacre was a premeditated act of mass murder – a mass casualty event, consistent with NATO Unconventional Warfare Doctrine. Text edited by nsnbc. Viewer discretion is advised – Christof Lehmann, editor-in-chief, nsnbc international."

"The perpetrators “set the scene” as typical in Hollywood-style US/NATO/Israeli false flag operations. The massacre in Odessa, the arrangement of the bodies, is bearing the hallmarks of a “mass casualty event” consistent with US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine."

"Note: according to one of the main versions of what happened on May 2 in Odessa, the Right Sector thugs performed a false flag operation. They put St. George’s Ribbons (symbols of anti-Maidan federalism supporters) and organized violent provocations against Maidan supporters (i.e. against their own allies), in order to later blame anti-Maidan supporters and make them look responsible for death of such many people."

Your attempting to cite as a credible analyst a person capable of this sort of swill says a good deal about your judgement, and your understanding of what constitutes expertise and evidence.

The man may be a decent psychiatrist, may even have some expertise in treating people who have been systematically traumatized, but that does not convey the slightest degree of credibility in the wholly separate fields of analyzing political and military events, let alone forensics. Examples of academics who are sound experts in their chosen field, and blithering idiots outside of it, are too numerous to need citing. And that is even without getting into the question of ideological affiliation and pre-disposition, which with this individual seems to have formed and stuck in the salad days of New Left Anti-Colonialism. On the basis of his own comments, his 'analysis' of current events is of about the same value as Alex Jones or Glenn Beck, though a bit above Sorcha Fal....

[newthinking]

6. You do realize you keep bumping the OP?

(to the top of the forum)

[The Magistrate]

8. You Do Not Want The Exposure Of Your Chosen 'Expert' As A Loon, Sir?

Not that I do not sympathize with your dilemma, since you have chosen to hitch your wagon to star which sheds light like this:

"An investigation into the details of the massacre on more than 40 protesters in the Ukrainian city of Odessa, who rejected to recognize the legality of the US / EU – backed post-coup government in Kiev. This photo and video documentation was compiled by the editor of Strategic Culture Foundation and reveals that the massacre was a premeditated act of mass murder – a mass casualty event, consistent with NATO Unconventional Warfare Doctrine. Text edited by nsnbc. Viewer discretion is advised – Christof Lehmann, editor-in-chief, nsnbc international."

"The perpetrators “set the scene” as typical in Hollywood-style US/NATO/Israeli false flag operations. The massacre in Odessa, the arrangement of the bodies, is bearing the hallmarks of a “mass casualty event” consistent with US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine."

"Note: according to one of the main versions of what happened on May 2 in Odessa, the Right Sector thugs performed a false flag operation. They put St. George’s Ribbons (symbols of anti-Maidan federalism supporters) and organized violent provocations against Maidan supporters (i.e. against their own allies), in order to later blame anti-Maidan supporters and make them look responsible for death of such many people."

[newthinking]

9. You are not making sense

Of course I think the read deserves attention.

You like to follow me around belittling and trying to get nasty things to stick.

But think this through.... What it might actually look to the casual observer? You wrote multiple responses copying and pasting the same text. Nobody is going to read that. Of course you added different insults each time, but people can also see that and generally they are not going to think it adds anything to the discussion.

What is your purpose? You are not "hurting" me. You only hurt yourself and seem to get yourself worked up?

And in the process again, you give exposure to that which you claim not to agree with?

[The Magistrate]

10. Repetition, Sir, Is An Important Element In Communication

There is a traditional bit of advice in old school advertising which likens the process to hitting a mule with a two-by-four. It is not enough just to hit him. You have to tell him you will hit him, show him the board, and then, after you have hit him, you have to show him the board, and tell him you just hit him with it. Only then can you be sure the message has gotten through. There is even solid research showing a connection with the number of times people see a thing with how well they remember it, and that people often conflate what they remember with they think themselves. This, in fact, accounts for most opinion of products among the public at large, and a great deal of political opinion into the bargain.

So I have no difficulty repeating that you have cited as an expert a man who apparently actually believes this swill to be fact:

"An investigation into the details of the massacre on more than 40 protesters in the Ukrainian city of Odessa, who rejected to recognize the legality of the US / EU – backed post-coup government in Kiev. This photo and video documentation was compiled by the editor of Strategic Culture Foundation and reveals that the massacre was a premeditated act of mass murder – a mass casualty event, consistent with NATO Unconventional Warfare Doctrine. Text edited by nsnbc. Viewer discretion is advised – Christof Lehmann, editor-in-chief, nsnbc international."

"The perpetrators “set the scene” as typical in Hollywood-style US/NATO/Israeli false flag operations. The massacre in Odessa, the arrangement of the bodies, is bearing the hallmarks of a “mass casualty event” consistent with US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine."

"Note: according to one of the main versions of what happened on May 2 in Odessa, the Right Sector thugs performed a false flag operation. They put St. George’s Ribbons (symbols of anti-Maidan federalism supporters) and organized violent provocations against Maidan supporters (i.e. against their own allies), in order to later blame anti-Maidan supporters and make them look responsible for death of such many people."

You cannot claim he is a credible analyst of events without claiming those statements are statements of fact. I notice you have not stated they are false, though you have not quite come out and said the swill is accurate statement of fact. And I do sympathize; either answer is damaging, from your point of view. Agreeing they are fact discredits you with all but a very small fringe, and agreeing they are false discredits what you are presenting as analysis worth reading, by confirming it was prepared by a loon.

[newthinking]

11. If your purpose is propagandizing you are correct

though I am not sure if this thread is even productive in that manner.

If you are interested in communication, then no, repeating yourself over and over does not do anything for your attempts to communicate your point.

In the spirit of your replies though I will repost my response:

Compare your credentials with his:

http://nsnbc.me/

From : http://www.atimes.com

Dr Christof Lehmann, born 1958 in West Germany, was Advisor for Research in Psycho-traumatology to Yasser Arafat and survivors of the Sabra Shatila massacre in 1982, secured a doctoral degree in clinical psychology in 1986. He was adviser to Joshua Nkomo on the impact of torture and psychological trauma on conflict solution and reconciliation in Zimbabwe's politics in 1986-1990, and advised Nelson Mandela on social politics, public mental health and the effect of psychological trauma on peace and reconciliation in 1994-1997.

I like to check before I give a source credence. Dr. Lehmann has a very distinguished history that goes far beyond this bio and has been around important people, events, and is himself been part of those histories. It is a shame that you feel it so important to try to discredit anyone that does not agree with your politics. You do your own mind a disservice.

[The Magistrate]

12. You May Have Mistaken Me For Someone Who Bores Easily, Sir...

That would be a mistake.

The credentials you cite are beside the point at issue, which is competence as an analyst of political and military events. The man may be a decent psychiatrist, may even have some expertise in treating people who have been systematically traumatized, but that does not convey the slightest degree of credibility in the wholly separate fields of analyzing political and military events, let alone forensics. Examples of academics who are sound experts in their chosen field, and blithering idiots outside of it, are too numerous to need citing. And that is even without getting into the question of ideological affiliation and pre-disposition, which with this individual seems to have formed and stuck in the salad days of New Left Anti-Colonialism. On the basis of his own comments, his 'analysis' of current events is of about the same value as Alex Jones or Glenn Beck, though a bit above Sorcha Fal....

He seems genuinely to believe, and you seem willing to defend as products of a credible analyst, these statements:

"An investigation into the details of the massacre on more than 40 protesters in the Ukrainian city of Odessa, who rejected to recognize the legality of the US / EU – backed post-coup government in Kiev. This photo and video documentation was compiled by the editor of Strategic Culture Foundation and reveals that the massacre was a premeditated act of mass murder – a mass casualty event, consistent with NATO Unconventional Warfare Doctrine. Text edited by nsnbc. Viewer discretion is advised – Christof Lehmann, editor-in-chief, nsnbc international."

"The perpetrators “set the scene” as typical in Hollywood-style US/NATO/Israeli false flag operations. The massacre in Odessa, the arrangement of the bodies, is bearing the hallmarks of a “mass casualty event” consistent with US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine."

"Note: according to one of the main versions of what happened on May 2 in Odessa, the Right Sector thugs performed a false flag operation. They put St. George’s Ribbons (symbols of anti-Maidan federalism supporters) and organized violent provocations against Maidan supporters (i.e. against their own allies), in order to later blame anti-Maidan supporters and make them look responsible for death of such many people."

Your attempting to cite as a credible analyst a person capable of this sort of swill says a good deal about your judgement, and your understanding of what constitutes expertise and evidence.

I suggest you get back to me when you can provide some evidence for this statement in particular:

"...the arrangement of the bodies, is bearing the hallmarks of a “mass casualty event” consistent with US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine..."

I expect you could hunt up at something authoritative on 'US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine' that could confirm it....

[newthinking]

13. I can do this too.

In the spirit of your replies though I will repost my response:

Your post is off topic and I am not going "debate" you on it because it is obvious you are not earnestly engaging.

Compare your credentials with his:

http://nsnbc.me/

From : http://www.atimes.com

Dr Christof Lehmann, born 1958 in West Germany, was Advisor for Research in Psycho-traumatology to Yasser Arafat and survivors of the Sabra Shatila massacre in 1982, secured a doctoral degree in clinical psychology in 1986. He was adviser to Joshua Nkomo on the impact of torture and psychological trauma on conflict solution and reconciliation in Zimbabwe's politics in 1986-1990, and advised Nelson Mandela on social politics, public mental health and the effect of psychological trauma on peace and reconciliation in 1994-1997.

I like to check before I give a source credence. Dr. Lehmann has a very distinguished history that goes far beyond this bio and has been around important people, events, and is himself been part of those histories. It is a shame that you feel it so important to try to discredit anyone that does not agree with your politics. You do your own mind a disservice.

[The Magistrate]

15. They Say Imitation Is The Sincerest Form Of Flattery, Sir

"I hate flattery, especially the awkward kind it takes work to believe."

[newthinking]

14. By the way, the OP is showing more views

Thanks for the bumps "SIR"

[The Magistrate]

17. Everybody Loves A Good Scrap, Sir

And whether more views is good for your view or mine is an open question. I remember a troll on another site used to cite view totals as evidence he was winning historical arguments, though people with access to archives were of another view, and he always wound up claiming Germany was bombed in WWII to destroy records he needed to prove his case beyond doubt, which would get the account terminated, and things would revert to the usual sleepy exchanges of arcane detail between afficianados....

I will await your provision of some evidence for this statement you have stood by as the product of a sound analyst of events in Ukraine:

"...the arrangement of the bodies, is bearing the hallmarks of a “mass casualty event” consistent with US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine..."

I expect you could hunt up at something authoritative on 'US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine' that could confirm it....

[newthinking]

16. German Positions on Iraq/Ukraine reflect growing Continental European Consensus against US/UK

Hegemony


German Positions on Iraq/Ukraine reflect growing Continental European Consensus against US/UK Hegemony
http://nsnbc.me/2014/08/18/german-positions-on-iraqukraine-reflect-growing-continental-european-consensus-against-usuk-hegemony-christof-lehmann/

Fahwad Al-Khadoumi (nsnbc) : German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier warned that the establishment of an independent Kurdish State on Iraqi territory could further destabilize the Middle East. German foreign policy on Iraq reflects a growing consensus among continental European countries who are pushing back against Anglo-American Middle East and European hegemony, said analyst and nsnbc editor, Christof Lehmann. He added, that nobody would have been better suited for implementing the Greater Middle East Project and a potential war on Russia than Danish NATO Secretary-General Fogh Rasmussen.

In an interview published in the largest German boulevard newspaper Bild on Sunday, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier told Bild that “An independent Kurdish State would further destabilize the region and give rise to new tensions”.


Independent analyst and nsnbc editor Christof Lehmann reported in a nsnbc exclusive, published June 22, that the final decision to oust the al-Maliki government in Iraq, using ISIS (IS) as proxy, was made during the Atlantic Council’s Energy Summit in Ankara, in November 2013.

http://nsnbc.me/2014/08/18/german-positions-on-iraqukraine-reflect-growing-continental-european-consensus-against-usuk-hegemony-christof-lehmann/

[The Magistrate]

18. Actual German Position, Sir, On Ukraine

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/23/us-ukraine-crisis-aid-convoy-idUSKBN0GM0IS20140823

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Saturday the standoff over Ukraine could be solved but only if control was tightened over the Ukraine-Russia border across which, the West alleges, Russia has been funnelling arms to help a separatist rebellion.

She said the main obstacle was the lack of controls along the nearly 2,000 km (1,300 mile) border. She proposed a deal between Kiev and Moscow on monitoring of the frontier by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

"Now we need a two-sided ceasefire linked to a clear controlling of the Russian-Ukrainian border, otherwise peace won’t be achieved," Merkel said.

Diplomats say Merkel came to Kiev with two objectives: primarily to show support for Kiev but also to urge Poroshenko to be open to peace proposals when he meets Putin next week in the Belarus capital, Minsk.


Not a single element there I would quarrel with, either as analysis or as policy.

[The Magistrate]

19. Actual German Position On Kurds v. I.S.I.L., Sir

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/22/us-iraq-security-europe-idUSKBN0GM1LO20140822

The German government dropped its self-imposed post-War ban on sending weapons into conflicts this week by deciding to join Britain and France in arming Iraqi Kurdish forces, although it is still unclear what exactly Germany will contribute.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/20/us-iraq-security-germany-arms-idUSKBN0GK1IG20140820

- Germany and Italy joined Britain and France on Wednesday in saying they would arm Iraqi Kurdish security forces fighting Islamic State militants in northern Iraq, in close coordination with the Baghdad central government.

Islamic State, which posted a video on Tuesday purporting to show the beheading of an captive American journalist, poses a threat to the world and Europe cannot simply stand by, Germany's defence and foreign ministers said.

Besides humanitarian aid and military equipment such as body armour and helmets, "we can also imagine providing further equipment, including weapons," Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said.

"In close agreement with our European and international partners we will do this in such a way that it boosts the peshmerga's [semi-autonomous Kurdish security forces] ability to defend themselves," Steinmeier said. "We see the risks attached to this, and we will therefore show a sense of proportion in the nature of what and how much we deliver."

[The Magistrate]

20. Face It, Sir: Fella You Tagged Onto Is Alex Jones With A Comfy Couch....

[newthinking]

21. I admit. I just posted that

figuring it would irritate you.
Your impulse to control is obvious.

I am not really interested in debating it with you. Especially since it is obvious you are replying to "score' points and being anti-social.
Buh bye "SIR"

[The Magistrate]

22. And Here You Were Claiming You Were Getting Under My Skin, Sir....

The contrast between the 'analysis' provided by this fellow you cite as sound, and the actual events, presently reported, is striking.

And I will await your provision of some evidence for this statement you have stood by as the product of a sound analyst of events in Ukraine:

"...the arrangement of the bodies, is bearing the hallmarks of a “mass casualty event” consistent with US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine..."

I expect you could hunt up something authoritative on 'US/NATO unconventional warfare doctrine' that could confirm it....

[arendt]

7. Have you got any facts or just made-up-my-mind insults?

Its amazing how you are such an expert on everything and everyone, without ever citing someone other than your own mouth.

In this entire thread, you have done nothing but spew invective.

It is really tiresome, sir. (sarcasm intended)

[newthinking]

23. In this case - "Obvious troll is obvious" seems to fit does it not