Millions of cars tracked across US in 'massive' real-time spying program
Source: The Guardian
The United States government is tracking the movement of vehicles around the country in a clandestine intelligence-gathering programme that has been condemned as a further official exercise to build a database on peoples lives.
The Drug Enforcement Administration was monitoring license plates on a massive scale, giving rise to major civil liberties concerns, the American Civil Liberties Union said on Monday night, citing DEA documents obtained under freedom of information.
... The Wall Street Journal, citing official documents and anonymous officials, reported that the programme built a national database to track vehicles in real time and stored hundreds of millions of records about motorists.
The primary goal was to seize cars, cash and other assets to combat drug trafficking but the database expanded to monitor vehicles associated with other potential crimes, it said.
Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/27/millions-of-cars-tracked-across-us-in-massive-real-time-spying-program
Wall Street Journal:
U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars
... Officials have publicly said that they track vehicles near the border with Mexico to help fight drug cartels. What hasnt been previously disclosed is that the DEA has spent years working to expand the database throughout the United States, according to one email reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
Many state and local law-enforcement agencies are accessing the database for a variety of investigations, according to people familiar with the program, putting a wealth of information in the hands of local officials who can track vehicles in real time on major roadways.
... Sen. Patrick Leahy, senior Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said the governments use of license-plate readers raises significant privacy concerns. The fact that this intrusive technology is potentially being used to expand the reach of the governments asset-forfeiture efforts is of even greater concern.
Read more: http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-spies-on-millions-of-cars-1422314779
newthinking
(3,982 posts)and keep their jobs.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)It's worse than the Redcoats.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)hunter
(38,326 posts)... replacing sensing wires in the streets and other less robust means of detecting automobiles.
These cameras hardly see cars as anything more than a fuzzy blob on the street and are not wired into any display system elsewhere.
These are not the same as "red light" or speeding cameras which actually produce an image good enough to ticket someone with, or surveillance cameras.
Of greater concern to me are cell phones. These are little homing beacons that most of us carry with us voluntarily, and the cell phone system is easily tapped into by law enforcement agencies and even less reputable organizations.
Here's a picture of a wolf wearing a radio tracking collar:
Here's a picture of tagged Monarch Butterfly:
Unlike the wolves or butterflies, we wear our various tracking devices voluntarily.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)They need an updated version.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)TimeToEvolve
(303 posts)creepy.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)also known as the New Apostolic Reformation theology movement. The most well-known dominionist organization is "THE FAMILY"/"THE FELLOWSHIP," and they operate the President's Prayer Breakfast every February in Washington DC.
Panich52
(5,829 posts)His wacko Cuban ex-pat father announced that to the crowd in 2011 or 12 gen they thought he had a shot at POTUS nomination
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)candelista
(1,986 posts)Fascism is capitalism gone nude.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,641 posts)It was about two feet long and mounted at an outward angle on the rear fender of a sheriff's car. I'd read about the technology, similar to face recognition software, so I knew what it was right away. It was reading and recording oncoming license plates as the cruiser drove down the road. The officer's laptop gave real time info on passing traffic.
Since then the huge fender units have disappeared, presumably replaced by more discreet dashboard or rear window sensors. I know they're still in use because my local police blotter is now filled with multiple violations for expired driver's licenses or driving under suspension. My own son was pulled over by a local police car that did a U-turn in a "routine traffic stop" that eventually revealed he never properly reinstated his license after a suspension the year previous. Keep in mind, this is a small town of about 6,000.
I can understand the use for this technology in fighting organized crime, but the ability to abuse is all too easy, and apparently commonplace.- Collecting mass movements in a national database for example. I was at a car show two summers ago when I saw the county sheriff driving slowly up and down each row of the spectator parking lot. I knew what he was doing.
This goes beyond the fishing analogy. It's like fishing with dynamite where they don't care about the damage they do to achieve a desired goal. Not very sporting either.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)this tool to assist in enforcing the law to make sure everyone is driving with legal tags and or current licenses?
defacto7
(13,485 posts)but that's not all it's used for. If it's not being used for anything but checking tags, it sure could be used for a lot of other things that endanger democracy and freedom. The data base is massive now and it's available to a privileged few. That's the point.
JohnnyRingo
(18,641 posts)That data is available to the privileged few and the dishonest many. Certainly I can see how a mid-level admin worker could access the database to track the daily movements of people he targets for private reasons.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)to monitor the people who have access to the database though given the number of security leaks these last few years I grant you that its certainly a legitimate concern.
Historic NY
(37,453 posts)and others use the same application to record plates in and out of their facilities. While its a civilian application its the same technology.
JohnnyRingo
(18,641 posts)...and I never approved of being investigated when I haven't committed a crime, but collecting this info into a national database for reasons other than making sure driver's licenses are up to date, reeks of Big Brother overreach.
I understand that technology has changed the world we live in, and many of our necessary conveniences track our every move, including OnStar, but watching that cop drive up and down the lanes of that parking lot really struck a nerve. How is what he's doing investigating a crime? He was fishing for traffic violations for the county quota, and I think his time on the beat could be better spent. If he stumbled upon the rare stolen car, it still can't justify checking the rest of us law abiding citizens out.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)We can of course debate the merits of how the cops spend their time if you want but in the end this is still a case of them of them enforcing the laws and the scanning tech just makes them more efficient but thats all its doing its not forcing people to choose to break the law they are doing that themselves.
elias49
(4,259 posts)I can't be the super-patriot you seem to be. Best of luck to you.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)candelista
(1,986 posts)I don't think you understand the implications of this. This technology can and will be used to monitor people's movements, and this information will be added to a database on each one of us that includes all sorts of other information, which can be put together in a complete dossier with a few strokes on a keyboard. There is a new 25 acre hard drive in Utah where it can all be stored.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)Now if they were using a RFID scanner and driving around detecting cars even when they are parked inside a closed private garage the court would probably agree that its overreach I suspect but since these are cars that are parked out in the open I will lay money down that the courts will allow it to continue.
MADem
(135,425 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,641 posts)If I understand the system, one has to buy a badge for their front plate. I know that cell phone GPS is not a life necessity, nor is an active OnStar, but I believe police gathering routine mass data of citizens who own cars may be over the line of intrusion.
I guess I always felt that my right to proceed from point A to point B without being investigated was a fundamental right, but the Supreme decided that DUI checkpoints where I'm forced to discuss my travels with an officer is legal as well. I concede the police will be allowed to continue gleaning and storing this info regardless of how violated I may personally feel.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Pay a bit more in fares, have less lanes to pay the fares in.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)I guess I'll start right in the middle-
"I'm forced to discuss my travels with an officer is legal as well."
Negative--
Actually, if you are at a DUI checkpoint you don't even have to answer the question "have you been drinking tonight"
JohnnyRingo
(18,641 posts)...opened with much less incriminating queries. Usually it was an innocent "How are you tonight?" followed quickly by "where have you been this evening?".
The first is just a pleasantry of course, but that second one is the onset of an active investigation that I resent having to participate in, regardless my sobriety. I'm unable to come up with a good non-answer that doesn't trigger a pull over into the "further examination area". I just want to continue on my way unimpeded, not spasm on the pavement from taser jolts while a K-9 sniffs his way through my Buick.
I'd love to answer "I'm coming from America, and headed to another part of that free country", but I'm no martyr to the cause, so I tell them where I've been, where I'm headed, and hope it satisfies their standards of acceptable behavior.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Shit, you actually don't even have to say that just write it down
Maybe you should watch this
This one is one of my favorites, this lady gets so wrapped around the wheel in her head she doesn't even know WTF she is saying LOL
elias49
(4,259 posts)I 'm in NH. A few years ago the Border Patrol began stopping all cars driving down interstate 91 (a north-south route) asking for an ID. This was at least 50 miles from the Canadian border. They didn't take kindly to non-compliance.
Little by little it starts. Already we have hand held devices - IPhones, Android - that obviously can pinpoint where you are but now people are using them as swipes to buy groceries, pay bills. Wow! And all that needs be done is to store all that data - fucking mountains of data - that can be accessed later if someone does a nasty.
Not a big step to a friggin bar code on your wrist. (Google wrist watches you say? Yep, Total Information Awareness.)
snooper2
(30,151 posts)You have the right not to talk...pretty basic one...
Or, you can talk and watch them get pissy
"I need you to pull over to secondary"
"No thanks"
elias49
(4,259 posts)Of course you can go to court. If you can afford it.
I must reiterate, reading your reply, that you seem kind of naive. Do you really want to irritate the man in dark glasses? See you around.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Rookie cop got supervisor, supervisor gives the "just answer the question"
me- "I am not required by the law you are sworn to uphold"
Okay sir, you can go on---
Police departments have paid out millions for false arrests and harassing drivers- I would love a settlement
elias49
(4,259 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)I get a monthly statement from American Express that "tracks" where and when I buy clothes, food, alcohol, merchandise over the internet, etc. Frightening!!
elias49
(4,259 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....in college the administration kept detailed records of my test scores, essay grades, etc.
Oh, the horror! When will Dr. Schwartz or Dean Baker come knocking down my front door in the middle or the night to drag me off?
JohnnyRingo
(18,641 posts)Refusing to answer direct questions can be considered belligerence by some cops and warrant closer scrutiny. Of course it depends on the officer's mood, ego, and how busy he/she is, but I just want to be on my way without having to make a political statement.
That I feel I should compounds my frustration with being detained, even for a short while as an officer asks me what I view as intrusive questions.
George II
(67,782 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)You can move it between cars. You don't buy anything, it's free, the transponder is refilled from your bank account every time you hit a certain point, you can set it. For example, if you know you use twenty bucks worth of tolls a month, you can have it take out twenty five to be on the safe side...
Also, if you pay cash, they take your picture. You're under full surveillance every time you come near a toll plaza...in living color, too.
George II
(67,782 posts)....McDonald's videos at their drive-thru windows, banks at their ATM machines, etc.
Paranoia is rampant here.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)It is the inevitable by-product of reading and storing license plate numbers.
I don't see the abuse in using them to enforce traffic laws. That is not the only thing that is happening.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)There is alot of stuff the government tracks for varies reasons some of it is legitimate and some its debatable.
Not to mention the government isnt the only one tracking things, banks do, hospitals, telecommunications like verizon and many other companies track us in varies ways every day.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)We can discuss other ways big data is changing the world if you want.
The government built a multi-billion dollar data center in Utah. Based on the size, there is a very real chance it will be used to combine the data from the government, banks, hospitals, telecoms, and other various corporations.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)''Has this basket been in your possession at all times?''
- K&R
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)I hope this folly ends soon.
hunter
(38,326 posts)Our travel is largely limited to roads and easily monitored.
People forced into poverty have more difficulty traveling, and are more easily contained.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Paper Roses
(7,475 posts)I hope whoever is being paid to watch me has a great time as I go the the grocery store, Home Depot, visit 2 sick friends and other exciting travels. Why the heck is the government interested in where we travel?
I cannot understand why this tracking is necessary. Busy work?
elias49
(4,259 posts)And of course the chance that the authorities get lucky and find someone with some bullshit on their record.
How many times have you read about someone being pulled over because they didn't use a turn signal, or had a "loud exhaust', or snow partially obscuring their number plate? I see it all the time in the 'police news' in the paper. Once in a while, they get lucky. More often, they just get away with harassing otherwise good citizens.
But the sheep don't care. Not until they find themselves in a pen, with the dogs herding in thestrays.
George II
(67,782 posts)Simple, they're NOT interested in where we travel.
George II
(67,782 posts)...if that is "tracking", then McDonald's is "tracking" millions of cars that use their drive-thru windows, banks are "tracking" millions of cars that use drive-up windows or ATMs. The NY/NJ Port Authority is "tracking" millions of cars that us EZ-Pass when they cross the Hudson River.
Aren't there more important things to obsess over these days?
elias49
(4,259 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....and in the one specific example, the Iowa State Troopers didn't use license plate tracking to decide to stop the car.