Rebates to cut price of $60 LED bulb

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

PETER SVENSSON

NEW YORK (AP) - How much would you pay for an amazing, state-of-the-art light bulb? Shoppers will be asking themselves that very question at Home Depot and other outlets starting Sunday _Earth Day- when the bulb that won a $10 million government contest goes on sale.

The bulb is the most energy-efficient yet, lasts about 20 years and is supposed to give off a pleasing, natural-looking light. But what separates it from the pack most is the price tag: $60.

That's the price that reflects the cost of the components, especially the top-notch chips, or diodes, that give off the light, and that's the price commercial customers will pay. But the manufacturer, the Netherlands-based Philips, is discounting it right away to $50 for consumers, and working on deals with electric utilities to discount it even further, by as much as $20 to $30.

This means the bulb will cost anywhere from $20 to $60, depending on where it's found. Online, consumers will be paying $50 for each bulb, because utilities don't subsidize online sales.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20120416/D9U69S7O1.html

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This product image provided by Philips shows a state-of-the-art LED light bulb. The bulb is the most energy-efficient yet, lasts about 20 years and is supposed to give off a pleasing, natural-looking light. But what separates it from the pack most is the price tag: $60. (AP Photo/Philips)

[MADem]

1. I was an early adapter to fluorescents, because I got used to them over in Europe.

If I could find these at twenty bucks, I'd try a few just to see how they did! Hopefully they'll come down in price fairly soon.

[bloomington-lib]

5. Here's one for 18.80

http://homytools.com/philips-ambient-led-dimmable-60w-replacement-light-bulb

Still not exactly sure how they're better than CFLs except in longevity. This particular one is 12/60 watts. If I remember correctly, my CFLs are about as efficient as that.

[freshwest]

9. I'd prefer almost anything to a CFL. Mine hum all the time. I buy LEDs all I can.

[Honeycombe8]

10. I use some at home. They do last a long time, but seems they do a number on the eyes.

And I've read that they are irritating to dogs because dogs' vision is faster or slower, so they actually SEE the flicker of fluorescents. Can you imagine sitting in a room for hours with a strobe light? (w/o something that allows you to see colors, that is)

[freshwest]

15. Good thing to protect your eyes and the dogs, too. The old incandescents were hot,

Easy to break and may not have lasted as long, but it wasn't such a hassle. The old flourescents could drive you crazy, too, when the ballasts or tubes were going.

[joeglow3]

32. Here is one running after 111 years

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1243138/Still-glowing-strong-109-years-worlds-oldest-lightbulb.html

[naaman fletcher]

12. I've never understood the objection to CFL's..

I buy the ones in the green box from Home Despot. They don't hum, they look fine.

That being said, the light blue box ones from Home Despot look terrible. Anyway, again, i just don't get the big objection to the CFL's.

And yes I broke one, and yes I just swept it up and threw it away instead of calling a hazmat team.

Anyway, though, I would not spend 20 for these LED's. The cost savings for them, (and the CFL's) is not as high as they claim.

1st, if you break one, you break it. With an old light you are out .69, with a new one more. 2nd, the inefficiency of the old bulbs is that a lot of energy gets turned into heat. That is an ok thing if you live in a cold climate.

[freshwest]

14. I got the CFL's the utilities push. No matter what I put them in, they hum.

So I put them as far away from me as possible and only use them in fixtures that require low heat. I use whatever else I can. Mostly GE full sprectrums and LED's, but I'm not going to toss out $20., either. Just wish we could wrangle a few more sunny days here.

[Angleae]

16. My initial objection to CFL's was they wouldn't fit in the bloody lamp.

They were all too tall to fit in under the lamp shade holder except the tiny 40W versions. But that was way back then, now all are replaced except the bathroom.

[Honeycombe8]

19. I'll look for them. I've never seen one in a store. Even Home Depot. nt

[freshwest]

20. But I'm only talking of the tiny LED's that are a bear to install, made by GE and sold at Lowe's.

They are very hot, and half the time they burn out on the first install. So I kind of hate them, it's a gamble. But I have a cheap lamp that uses them and fits in a tiny space. Sometimes that light lasts a couple of years. These are not the ones in the OP, these are little two pronged monsters.

I'm using 7 different kinds of bulbs here in lighting fixtures. Fortunately most of them have lasted for several years, no matter what kind they are. But the outdoor light has been so low, I've taken to using a Verilux from COSTCO many mornings for S.A.D.

Which I didn't believe I had, but a doctor talked me into it trying one and it's made a world of difference. Things just seem so complicated at times, but I'm grateful to have found some cheap solutions.

[Honeycombe8]

24. Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your S.A.D. You said "the outdoor light...

has been so low..." I thought you were talking about your outdoor porch light. LOL. Then I wondered what S.A.D. meant. Then it hit me. Silly me.

Do those lights really help S.A.D.? No light problems here in Dallas, TX...too much light, if you ask me.

I wonder if lights help depression generally?

Re the LED lights, I was saying I thought I might try one, a regular size, but I haven't seen one yet.

[freshwest]

26. I grew up in TX, so no lack of sunlight. Moved north where it rains a lot and the hours of daylight

Vary greatly with the seasons. But it's been dark and cloudy most days for the last year or so where I live. I lived in the mountains up here too, and they have their own little weather system, even more so. It rains a lot, not that I have a problem with that having grown up near the Gulf coast.

I first learned of this as a friend's son who is disabled enough to require constant care, was prescribed one by his doctors to get his sleep back in order and help with his moods. Although they used a stronger one, a 'light board,' which is an array of bright fluoresent lights placed near him on the table as he ate breakfast. It helped him tremendously.

I've been up here a long time, it's only recently that lack of light (enough to make my houseplants weak in a southern window) was getting to me. I had trouble with my sleep, energy and concentration. I didn't believe in the depression from lack of sun idea.

But I found that the lights made a huge difference in resetting my sleep and wake cycles, concentration, appetite and my energy. If I feel like I'm nodding off in the daytime and don't want to disrupt my sleep cycle I turn on the light, also turn it on when I get up.

It's humbling to think that natural light, or this version of natural light is so powerful to the brain. I notice if I'm actually having a feeling of depression, not just the physical symptoms, it helps that, too.

Nice talking to you here. See you later.

[MADem]

11. Hey, great!

I think the "draw" with these things is the look of the light. I can usually make my CFLs look ok because I live in a house with ancient furnishings, to include lamps that predate the war (and I mean the 2nd World War) so the shades are rather old fashioned (though not quite so old) as well, and they hide a multitude of CFL sins.

[johnd83]

2. I think LED technology adoption is inevitable

Some of the stuff they have in the pipeline is really impressive. Once economy of scale really gets going the price will plummet.

[3waygeek]

3. A year or two ago, I bought some LED bulbs that look

just like the one pictured; IIRC, they were in the $40-50 range. I put them in the ceiling fixture in my living room, as that light gets the most use. I noticed a small dip in my monthly power bill -- only a dollar or so per month, but that's a five-year payback.

I'd previously tried CFLs -- had several burn out after a couple years' use.

[jade3000]

13. This is very cool

I didn't realize how fast this stuff is coming out. I'm psyched to enter the new era of lighting soon.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

21. We did our whole house last year with LEDs - mostly 6in. recessed can retrofits from Cree lighting.

Sold at our Home Depots for $29 or $39 dollars depending on when you get them. The price seems fluctuate by ten dollars based on how much incentive money our power company, Exelon/Comed, has in the kitty - at least that's what I'm told.

The same lights are sold in down-state Home Depots minus the incentives for $49. Hint hint to people in non-incentivized areas looking to upgrade.

We are really happy with the light they put out. We cut our house total lighting wattage from over 2300 watts to a bit over 400 watts (I like lots of light). That's 25 plus recessed cans that used to pull 65 watts each (now 10 watts each) and several halogen display/spots at 50 watts (now 3 or 4 watt LEDs).

The higher price for the recessed lights is not too much of a premium to someone doing a full remodel or starting from scratch in new construction. A good recessed light trim/baffle kit can run $8 or $9 dollars from Halo for a basic trim and more ($20 plus) for a shower approved trim kit. Plus the price of a quality incandescent or CFL bulb. Since the lens and trim ring is all one piece, the recessed LED retro fits shower approved and air-tight (which is another benefit. Shower trims are about 20 bucks and up).


Here's a blurry pic of our kitchen LEDs:

[bloomington-lib]

4. What is the benefit for utility companies to subsidize this light bulb?

The less we spend on electricity, the less they make, right?

[bananas]

7. PUC creates incentives

For example, if a state decides to reduce air pollution, the state public utilities commission will create incentives for utilities not to build new power plants by having consumer efficiency programs.

[kemah]

8. The Reason Utility Companies are subsidizing is because it is cheaper to run one plant at 90%

It is cheaper to run one plant at 90% capacity than to build another plant and run both at 50% capacity. Just basic business fundamentals. Maximize your fixed costs. You do not want to under utilize your production plant.

[David__77]

22. Right, demand side management is the least cost resource.

Better than building a new plant. That's why even the right-wingers can sign on to such incentive programs. They make economic sense. With the economy worse, though, people are demanding a quicker payment and higher incentives to clear the market of old, inefficient equipment.

[tabasco]

6. Damn. You can get a Philips DVD player for about $20.

Those babies gonna have to come down to about $5 before I can afford them.

[saras]

17. They'll get cheap. CFLs were a stupid idea and will go away

I can understand people who can't perceive the problems with CFLs.

I can't understand them then saying that no one else should have a problem with them either.

That's like saying that, because I'm tone-deaf, no one I work with should mind if I listen to Weird Al all day every day.

What I notice - and I can tell from the street whether a house has incandescent, halogen, CFLs, (rare) LEDs, decorative lights like Christmas lights, or a mixture (as can, I suspect, most photographers who work with artificial light) - is not just the color but the spikiness of the color spectrum, the flicker, the strobe effect when things move, the hum, the smell of cheap ones, the high-pitched whines they occasionally develop, their intolerance of dimmers, the poor variety of smaller sizes available, and their dislike of many kinds of light fixtures.

What I can't notice until it's too late is the toxic mercury spilled every time one breaks. Or the fact that you can't point lamps with them any direction you want, unless you buy extra expensive ones. Being someone who does stuff at home rather than consume media, I have lots of moveable lights and few fixed ones, and light bulbs break regularly. LEDs would be great if they were good enough for loupe work. CFLs are as unusable as kerosene lamps.

The other thing I notice is that in social environments, CFLs drive people away and incandescents attract them. It's an interesting experiment to try at a big party. I have no idea what others dislike about them. Even mentioning them defeats the experiment.

[Honeycombe8]

25. Another perspective

I live in a very hot area. CFLs are the only light bulbs, I believe, that are not that hot when turned on. They're hot, but not that hot. Sitting in my chair with the floor lamp on, if the bulb is incandescent and it's summer, even in a/c, I will get warm or even start sweating. This doesn't happen with CFLs. The heat is a double whammy: not only does it use more power to burn it, the heat it puts out causes the a/c to work harder, which uses more power.

There are CFLs that are cool or warm in color, now. Not the same as incandescent, but better than the old days' CFLs.

My CFLs last a fairly long time. The small yellow one on my porch has been burning for years. The 3-ways in my lamps don't last nearly as long...maybe a couple of years? One of the levels always goes out, making it a 2-way light.

CFLs now come in all sizes and varieties. 3-way, large lamps, medium lamps, small ones, yellow, cool white, warm white.

CFLs are not great for atmosphere, it's true. So I use incandescent in the fall and winter.

CFLs are also not good with dimmers. For that reason, I still use incandescent in my kitchen ceiling fixture, which has a dimmer switch.

I'm interested in seeing how LEDs work and look.

[saras]

30. Yep. Hot is different. Here, the heat is valuable 3/4 of the time

If your CFLs are lasting that long, you're finding better ones than I, but I can't afford to experiment with the expensive ones.

And dimming incandescents actually makes the heat issue worse - they're LESS efficient at lower power, so you lose light faster than you lose heat.

One of the reason I have lots of lights is so that I can have light exactly where I want it without turning on ten lights and lighting the whole room.

Personally I want the LEDs to become big flat slabs, maybe a foot square, with a lot less glare than current ones. The economics forces them to make the smallest, most efficient chip possible, and you get tiny point sources of light that are hard to diffuse well. If you can afford to waste the light/energy, putting LED lights through another layer of frosted glass can be a big help.

I can't find tiny CFLs. I use a lot of 7-watt bulbs (nitelites) and small round 25 watt bulbs. I also use a couple of 250w bulbs in the shop spaces. Can't find those in CFLs either.

I also use strings of Christmas LEDs for light. They're CHEAP, and if you stuff a whole string into a frosted glass lampshade or vase - voila! instant LED lamp that works with a dimmer. Colored or clear white, whatever you prefer. You can even get the ones that change colors.

In addition, inside the ends of the LED light strings are the components that control power, brightness, and life. I replace mine with bigger resistors - the LEDs are slightly dimmer and a lot less glaring, and the lifetime goes up immensely.

[Philip707]

18. L-Prize was RIGGED by Dept. of Energy

There are greater troubling issues beyond the price.

The problem is that the L-Prize contest which was supposed to foster U.S. green technology competitiveness was RIGGED.

As a foreign based (headquartered) corporation Philips was excluded from eligibility according to the law that established the L-Prize, in particular public law 110-140 section 655(f)(1). Under U.S. federal law the term "a primary place of business" used in the statute refers to the single headquarters location, which in the case of Philips is Amsterdam,Netherlands. Philips, of course, would have known that they were ineligible, so they put out PR flak alleging that the bulb was the result of a global effort. The truth is otherwise, as evidenced in Philips patent application on the bulb, is otherwise. See http://www.google.com/patents/about/ELECTRIC_LAMP.html?id=adH3AQAAEBAJ The bulb was developed in the Netherlands. Dept. of Energy energy bureaucrats who have been hobnobbing with Philips executives for years or DoE politicals who were looking for a photo-op apparently decided not to enforce the law.

The L-Prize entry also failed to meet key technical requirements of the contest. The Philips entry does not meet the stated uniformity requirement of the contest. This is admitted in a document obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, see http://tinyurl.com/43ecmqm . The curt justification asserted in that document based on comparing uniformity to a standard incandescent lamp is factually (quantifiably) false. The putative L-Prize winner is actually less uniform.

The Philips entry also failed to produce the required amount of light. In one test 62 out of 100 bulbs failed. (See above linked document) Whether the commercialized version will consistently produce the required amount of light is an open question, HOWEVER the stated procedure for the contest was that if the entry failed a required test the entry would fail. What happened is that Philips wanted to submit prematurely to claim the prize (see http://reason.com/archives/2012/03/09/feds-pay-10-million-for-50-light-bulb ) and the Department of Energy did not want to follow the rules and fail them, rather they embarked on RIGGING the contest. They kept the failure secret and proceeded with other tests.

The result is that a bulb developed by Dutch inventors, built with some (possibly most) of its parts made in Shenzhen China (see http://www.dailytech.com/Philips+Wins+10M+USD+Govt+LPrize+for+Worlds+Most+Efficient+Light+Bulb/article24082.htm ) has been given a great initial advantage which may allow it to dominate U.S. competitors, even though the contest is RIGGED.

We may wind up with Dutch citizens enjoying social welfare benefits such as vacations for the unemployed, supported by Chinese workers working 16 hours a day and American consumers squeezed by $60 light bulb prices whether they pay that amount at the check out counter or indirectly pay for subsidies through their electric bill.

[Morning Dew]

23. Just curious here. You've posted this same post in several other places.

a google search of the words

Philips was excluded from eligibility according to the law that established the L-Prize

yields a bunch of links. Did you have an interest in the L-Prize contest?

[slackmaster]

27. I was in Home Depot on Saturday and toyed with the idea of buying a Par-38 LED flood light...

...potentially to replace a 75-Watt Halogen flood lamp that I installed directly over my kitchen sink.

The verdict was No Sale for two reasons:

1. I want daylight color temperature and mixture at that location. It's critical that I am able to see exactly what I am doing while preparing food or washing dishes. The only LED lamp offered at HD is soft white.

2. Price too high - $38.95. Even at 15 cents per KWH it would take a long, long time for the bulb to pay for itself.

There were 4-packs of LED replacements in that format for a very low price, but I don't like the color blend on those. I decided to stick with my halogen bulb until it burns out, then look at what's available.

I believe if the LED was available in daylight and cost under $20 I would have jumped on it.

[hedgehog]

28. I'm happy with the CFLs I have all over, and figure that the

price on the LEDs will come down by the time the CFLs go bad, so it's all good.

My biggest problem with the CFL's?

I used to wash the fixture in the kitchen every time I changed the bulb, and that worked out fine. Now I have to haul out the ladder just to wash the fixture periodically, because the bulb keeps going and going!

[Remmah2]

29. Home Depot had some promo LED lights for sale for $9 last week.

They were 8 watt and are supposed to be the equivelant of a 40 watt incandescent.

My first impression is the color rendition is pretty good. 40 watts makes it okay for hallways and such. I'll have to see if they last as long as the manufacturer claims.

I remember when compact fluorescents first came out at they were costing $10+ per bulb with poor color correction.

[joshcryer]

31. Impressive demo of the bulb:

[Snake Alchemist]

33. Let me know when it's down to 5$. nt

[Incitatus]

34. has anyone here ever had a light bulb last the amount of time the box claimed?