Environmentalists on Disney Springs fake spring: really?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

Last edited Sun Jan 18, 2015, 12:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Orlando Sentinel

For defenders of one of the world's richest collections of springs — there are 1,000 in Florida — Walt Disney World's marketing of an artificial spring as the centerpiece of a retail and entertainment complex isn't a pressing concern.

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"Now here's a crazy story that we absolutely are not making up," said David Guest, lead attorney for EarthJustice in Florida, in a blog post. "Disney is building a fake Florida spring for the world to see in its Orlando amusement park."

Referring to Florida's epidemic of sick springs, Marjorie Holt of Sierra Club in Orange County lamented that perhaps Disney's version "will be cleaner than natural springs."

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But Disney's portrayal of its commercial development as an idyllic springs setting strikes springs defenders as another "Flori-duh" moment. Real springs are plagued with pollution and shriveled flows caused by development.

Read more: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCAQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2Fnews%2Fos-disney-springs-galls-environmentalists-20150117-story.html&ei=Q9a7VP3qMpa0yATXqILACQ&usg=AFQjCNHmmEjUySc6zBOKcz1RS7syyqFEOQ&sig2=wTWTzXSFu4_QjK3kXW1lEA&bvm=bv.83829542,d.aWw

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So typical Disney. From the same people who brought us the "fake real town" Celebration.

If you are in Orlando and you want to see a spring, you've got dozens of options just within an hours drive that are much more worthy a visit than Disney Springs. Having been to both real and fake versions, I can tell you parking alone is infinitely better at the real thing.

[CurtEastPoint]

1. Thanks for posting. Story is behind a paywall, FYI.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

3. Really? I accessed it fine. Funny.

Last edited Sun Jan 18, 2015, 11:00 AM - Edit history (2)

On edit: The full article came up through a Facebook link. When I re-pasted the link here, they had the limited access.

Anyways, here's another link about the story:

http://earthjustice.org/blog/2014-august/disney-building-fake-florida-spring-really

It contains Disney's own quote on "Disney Springs" pseudo-history that they themselves wrote up:

“Our story starts very much like waterfront towns all over Florida. There was a little green field, there was a natural spring that was found and then these settlers, in the mid-1800s, started building cabins, just what you would find throughout the history of Florida. And over time, that little settlement grew into a full size town and that’s how Disney Springs was born, and it’s as much a story about the history of Florida as it is a Disney story … and Disney Springs really leverages that story and says, ‘Well what if there were a beautiful, natural springs that a whole town was built on, and then over time that town was converted into a retail, dining and entertainment venue that’s something that the world hasn’t seen before?’”

So, basically, Disney's vision of Florida is seeing its unspoiled natural landmarks turned into retail, dining and entertainment hotspots. Which, if you've ever read anything about how Disney World was built and its effects on the Central Florida landscape, actually is pretty much more or less the truth.

If the place were called "Disney Springs" and that was it, fine. I mean, there's a town in South Florida called Coral Springs which doesn't actually have a spring, but whatever. It's the whole fake history and the not-so-innocent message behind it that rubs me the wrong way.

[7962]

2. But if you're already THERE, whats wrong with it? nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

4. From a visitor's standpoint, nothing really except that....

.....if Disney is actually billing this place as an homage to Florida's springs, but in fact it's nothing but an overcrowded tourist trap, and given that sadly most out of state visitors to the Central Florida area don't venture out beyond the confines of International Drive and Lake Buena Vista, it does cheapen the perception of the Florida springs.

If you go to a real Florida spring, you'll find it surrounded by acres of untouched wilderness, not a T-Rex cafe, Disney Mega Store and 8 story parking garage.

I guess it's just a matter of Disney forever being Disney, creating fake, plastic reproductions of much more genuine originals.

It's sort of like someone claiming that going to the Paris casino in Las Vegas gives someone the feeling that they are actually in Paris, France when you know such an experience can't possibly be replicated. The only difference is, the person visiting the Paris casino might not be able to afford a trip to the real Paris, while a person visiting "Disney Springs" could easily take an hour drive and pay $5 and experience a real Florida spring. Sadly, most won't.

[freshwest]

5. You just destroyed your argument, though:

'If you go to a real Florida spring, you'll find it surrounded by acres of untouched wilderness...'

Untouched wilderness doesn't fare well under the thread of throngs of feckless tourists.

Just one example:

The mountains of trash they'd leave behind them, and the development of the area into a smaller, tackier version of what Disney will be offering.

Which won't be regulated very well in FL under GOP rule. There has been a steady erosion of all things that government once did well in FL. Too bad Crist didn't pass muster and to reverse the mess begun by Jeb, accelerated by Voldemort, who is still in office, to the nation's horror.

Other than that, there is so much I loathe about Disney I'd have to make a lengthy OP to explain it. And they aren't worth the time.

I really don't think natural springs can handle any more abuse. Of course, Disney itself and pressure from other developers are the main source of damage.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. And dammit, look how it keeps on going on...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

6. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

And it is good in a way that Florida's actual springs remain something of a mystery to most of the country. There's a very good reason they allow only so many people to float down the Ichetucknee on a daily basis.

But on the other hand, I wish people coming to Florida knew about it for reasons other than Disney. Or idiot politicians and funny news stories.

As you say, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Thor_MN]

13. "nothing but an overcrowded tourist trap"

Isn't that the definition of Disney World?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

14. Pretty much.

I've got no love for the place whatsoever. And I'm within a couple of hours drive of it.

[Adrahil]

16. If you don;t like it, that's fine.... but many enjoy it, and don;t see the issue? n/t

[CreekDog]

18. enjoy a lie?

that's what we're talking about here.

they are being told one thing when the reality is another.

oh but they enjoy thinking it's what they've been told it is.

Tommy's right.

[Adrahil]

20. What? That's crazy!

Disney Springs is a shopping center. It's once gigantic artificial experience. It's fiction. Fiction are "lies" too. If you don't enjoy that kind of entertainment, you know, "fiction," then I suggest you find some entertainment you DO like.

FFS, some of you folks....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

22. If you want to enjoy Disney World, be my guest.

No pun intended. (Beauty and the Beast? Get it? Whatever.)

Millions upon millions of people will enjoy Disney World on an annual basis. To them, I say knock themselves out.

I have no problem with other people going to Disney World. My main beef with them personally is that they sometimes go out of the way to create fake facades that mask actual realities which look back in hindsight are somewhat insulting of the given situation.

Making rides about movies and fictional characters are one thing. Creating tone-death alternate realities in development projects is quite another thing.

The notion that Disney could create a real town that bent over backwards to pander to a nostalgic never-was perception of small town America (i.e. Celebration) is one such example. "Disney Springs" is just another example.

Had Disney simply named the shopping center "Disney Springs" and left it at that, I doubt anyone would have really cared. There are plenty of places in Florida with the nickname "springs" added on where no such natural spring exists, and it's pretty much a developer's gimmick to make a modern developed place more in touch with its natural surroundings.

However, the whole backstory idea is asinine. I'm sure it's not intentional on Disney's part, but it's asinine nonetheless. Essentially, they talk about finding a natural spring back in the 1800s, and over the years, it develops into a high energy entertainment and dining venue around the fake spring that actually exists today, complete with Planet Hollywood and Cirque De Soleil and ten million other places.

You might think that's just harmless Disney stupidity, and maybe you're right. But the problem is, Florida's actual springs have been hit with a decrease in water quality and flow in recent years, thanks in most part to over-development. And much of Florida's over-development, at least in the central portion of the state, can be traced back to the opening of Disney World in 1971. Which I'm sure was just a step in the great carousel of progress in the eyes of Disney, but claiming a mega shopping center is some sort of homage to Florida's springs is an insult in my opinion.

Maybe that's not what was intended, but I don't think Disney cares. As long as they have a cool little fake story to tell.

[Adrahil]

27. I can understand your position. But I do not agree.

Disney is a commercial enterprise, and they are, ultimately motivated by making a buck. Either you enjoy the way they do that, or you don't. And yeah, I do see the issue with "artificial reality." Disney does do that. But in the world of commercial entertainment, I find it far less objectionable than, say, pro sports, which to me is a horrible waste of money.

But to each his own.

[d_r]

7. its a shopping center

Its the theme for ba shopping center

[tomm2thumbs]

8. LINK here if the provided link only takes you to their homepage

Disney Springs fake article

[Tommy_Carcetti]

9. Thanks. nt

[tomm2thumbs]

10. no prob!!

these 'sign up or don't read it' links can be frustratin' when sharing news

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. I edited to include the fully accessible link. nt

[tomm2thumbs]

12. cool

That's a little secret the big sites don't want you to know about -- they use search engines to garner audience and pay nothing for the exposure, but when other sites promote, using direct links, they block you.

I always use the long google-search links when connecting to LA Times, and other pay-to-view sites.

___ as a note, if folks click from the main home page of DU from the blurb-link, they'll get a middle-page to choose to continue, but that link will still let them view the page without restriction __

[L0oniX]

15. Rev Billy sermon on Disney's Mickey Mouse.

[Nye Bevan]

17. My kids don't like wilderness. But they love everything Disney.

Yeah, I know, I should take them hiking in Yosemite and mule-riding in the Grand Canyon and stuff, but what can I say, I am a bad person and have been hopelessly corrupted by an evil mouse.

[CreekDog]

19. You've read his post, so it's not credible that you don't know you've misrepresented the OP

the issue isn't going to Disney.

the issue is going to something fake and thinking it's real.

Disney is fine. You ride a fake, flying elephant and everybody knows it's fake.

The moment something is marketed as the real thing, then it's fraudulent and misleading.

And that's a problem.

[snooper2]

24. somebody should file a lawsuit

[Adrahil]

21. Me too. Instead of Haunted Mansion, I need to find some real ghosts. n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

23. Millions and millions of people love Disney World, and that's fine in my book.

I myself have no use for the place whatsoever, but hey, different strokes for different folks.

My issue here isn't with the people who want to go to Disney World, but rather Disney's own desperate attempt to market its attractions as homages to things that never actually existed. And no, I'm not talking about rides based on movies, either (or rides based on rides that were made into movies). But things like Celebration and the like.

I mean, this quote:

"Disney Springs and the experience we are creating honors Florida's rich natural heritage," spokeswoman Jacquee Wahler said. "We hope that the name will raise awareness of the importance of springs and waterways to Florida's past and its future."

How exactly does building a mega shopping center and naming it after a fake spring with a fake historical backstory "raise awareness" of Florida's actual springs, given that Florida's actual springs are suffering from decreased water quality and flow due to places that resemble "Disney Springs"?

Disney ought to cut the crap.

[Xithras]

25. As an environmentalist, I think this may be a better solution anyway.

Which is better? Massive development projects and tens of thousands of yearly visitors traipsing around sensitive ecological areas? Or Massive development projects built where they won't hurt anything, with tens of thousands of yearly visitors looking at a somewhat convincing mockup of a sensitive ecological area?

Maybe I'm missing something, but the argument strikes me as being akin to: "Shame on Disney for building a shopping mall with a fake rain forest in the middle! There was some REAL rain forest nearby that they could have cut down for development instead!"

[EX500rider]

26. x2

I prefer the tourists go there and leave the springs for me!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

28. The problem isn't the project itself. It's more of a messaging and tone deafness on Disney's part.

The project itself is fairly environmentally limited. Basically they're just revamping the existing Downtown Disney area and rebranding it as "Disney Springs". Fair enough. That I don't have a problem with.

My issue is Disney's obviously phony spin about "Disney Springs" supposedly "honor(ing) Florida's rich natural heritage" and "hop(ing) that the name will raise awareness of the importance of springs and waterways to Florida's past and its future."

That's a bunch of malarkey. It's a shopping center, not a nature preserve. No one in their right mind would view "Disney Springs" as honoring or raising awareness of some place like Ichetucknee Springs or Rainbow Springs.

But even worse is the ridiculous forced backstory behind the place, described here:

“Our story starts, much like waterfront towns all over Florida. There was a little green field, there was a natural spring that was found … and Disney Springs really leverages that story and says, well what if there were a beautiful, natural springs that a whole town was built on, and then over time that town was converted into a retail, dining and entertainment venue that’s something that the world hasn’t seen before?”

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/opinion/columnists/hohmeister/2014/08/22/mark-hohmeister-disney-springs-future/14436457/

And yeah, maybe it's silly to get worked up about what appears on the surface to be some harmless marketing BS. Here's the problem though. The whole phony backstory behind "Disney Springs" is basically how Disney views Florida in pre- and post- Disney World terms. That it was basically a bunch of bumpkins sitting on some naturally undeveloped land, and Walt Disney came in and built Disney World which was such a wonderful godsend to Florida because it gave people some reason to finally go there and do fun stuff that didn't exist there before, because Florida before Disney apparently sucked ass.

Except Disney World wasn't all sunshine and rainbows for Florida. It was built quite sneakily and out of the public eye, with Disney persuading state officials to exempt it from quite a few local regulations and review processes. It's caused a lot of sprawl and overdevelopment in the Central Florida area. And with that overdevelopment came negative impacts on the water resources, including the real natural springs.

So Disney plastering the name "Disney Springs" on a shopping center and claiming it's some sort of homage to Florida's actual springs is an insulting lip service considering the amount of actual ecological damage Disney has done to Florida's environment over the decades. I have no problem with them revamping an existing shopping area, but I'd rather they just do away with the charade that they are somehow honoring the state to which they've caused quite a lot of damage.