FARMERS IN DRY CALIFORNIA DECRY DECISION INVOLVING APPEALS

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

BY SCOTT SMITH

FRESNO, Calif. (AP) -- The U.S. Supreme Court refused Monday to consider appeals by Central Valley farmers and California water districts that want to pump more water from a delta that serves as the only home of a tiny, threatened fish.

The decision lets stand a 2008 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service plan to safeguard the 3-inch-long Delta smelt, a species listed as threatened in 1993 under the federal Endangered Species Act.

The plan restricts the amount of water that can be pumped out of the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta and sent south to Central Valley farmers and water districts.

The smelt only lives in the delta - the largest estuary on the West Coast that supplies much of California with drinking water and irrigates millions of acres of farmland.

FULL story at link.



FILE - In this July 25, 2005, file photo, tiny fish caught in the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta river are seen through a microscope at a California Department of Fish and Game laboratory in Stockton, Calif. California farmers struggling with drought say a U.S. Supreme Court decision issued Monday, Jan. 12, 2015, that keeps strict water restrictions in place to protect a tiny, threatened fish has forced them to leave thousands of acres unplanted in the nation's most fertile agricultural region. (AP Photo/Rich Pedroncell, File)


Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUPREME_COURT_TROUBLED_DELTA_SMELT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-01-12-20-53-23

[JDPriestly]

1. We in California need to learn to desalinate ocean water.

The water in the oceans is rising. Let's desalinate it, use or store the salt somewhere else and then we won't have this problem. It may seem expensive now, but it will get cheaper if we start to use the technology now. We need the water.

[NYC_SKP]

2. No thank you. Those plants use tons of energy. We need to conserve more, and quit growing.

If we build desal plants developers will just keep building, trust me.

Why not just conserve more?

[ffr]

5. Exactly! Those same farmers drained Tulare Lake

They'd drain the oceans if they could. Humans need to roll back the population to some sustainable level. That is the solution in and of itself. Everything else that life on this planet depends on requires humans to take less. The easiest way to do that is decrease the population. Simple.

Central Valley agri-corps are already buying land in other areas of the valley and pumping the water from one region to another. There's no limit on how much can be pumped from the ground. The valley floor is dropping about one foot per year and the aquifers below are steadily dropping too. I have relatives who live there and have well water, once a plentiful resource. Not it's a regular occurrence to have a drilling company come out and drill ever deeper.

[NYC_SKP]

8. Farmers and developers.

And, these days, some folks use 600 gallons of water per day, others only 40 or so, like myself.

If we would just penalize the hell out of water waste, take the fines and invest in rain water catchment and grey water systems and quit growing our population, we will have water to spare, even if the drought never ends.

[antiquie]

52. We need to stop using drinking water to poop in.

That is all.

[NYC_SKP]

54. Yup, and to wash cars and sidewalks and water our plants.

Grey water systems should be required by building codes.

[duhneece]

12. Why not do both?

Our community in south central New Mexico could use desalinization. A focus on desalinization research and development could help the world community...AND conserve.

[NYC_SKP]

16. "Helping the world community"...to continue to overpopulate?

Using technology to try to cheat the planet into having more of us around, it is never sustainable, something always suffers.

The California farms weren't even possible without the technology of the water projects, and they failed.

We should just cap our population where it is and call it good.

[duhneece]

34. I agree we need to cap our population, but population is only one piece of the puzzle

Drought is another piece. Finding ways to recycle & conserve, prevent privatization, as well as process salty or briny water is another. Eating locally-grown produce that demands low amounts of water yet another...Finding solutions for just one piece of the puzzle won't work.

[christx30]

35. How do you propose capping the population?

Want to institute a 2 child policy like China?

[duhneece]

36. ABsolutely not!

Educating, informing about consequences and alternatives to overpopulation is one piece... Providing affordable, accessible contraceptives another piece...providing comprehensive reproduction information is another piece. Providing women with education...

When we think there is only one solution (to almost any problem), we usually don't have the benefit of many voices, creativity or options at the table.

[christx30]

48. After education, laws are passed.

10 or 15 years from now, the debate is going to be a real thing. And leaders are going to get elected that are going to propose more and more ways of limiting births. In scifi movies and TV shows, the first sign they always show that a society is totalitarian is limits on family sizes, or who can have children. I'm not saying any of this is a good or bad thing. I just know that eventually, it'll happen.

[Igel]

55. US population growth from births is flat.

The increase in population is from immigration.

Immigrants also have higher birth rates. Without births to immigrants and their children, the US would be below replacement levels.

Want to cap US population growth? Sharply curtail immigration.

[CreekDog]

25. how much energy would be required to desalinate water

and then ship it over numerous mountain ranges to get it to New Mexico?

[duhneece]

33. The Tularosa Basin is where I live and where the basin is full of briny water

It's here.

"The saline water in the Tularosa Basin has recently become of interest as a source of feed water for desalting plants...The complexly faulted graben of the central Tularosa Basin contains more than 6,000 ft of bolson-fill deposits; more than 90 percent of these deposits are saturated with saline"
water

https://nmgs.nmt.edu/publications/guidebooks/downloads/26/26_p0237_p0238.pdf

[Ash_F]

22. Quit growing how?

China gets a lot of flak on these boards for their one child policy.

You got a better idea?

[JDPriestly]

27. You should see my neighborhood. We already conserve water. The next step would be to

forgo showers and drinking water.

I have completely given up on grass as have many, many of my neighbors. Desert landscaping is in. I water my vegetables in big pots with water I use for other things.

Conservation is already here. It is not enough. I could tell people living in cold climates to jsut wear more clothing and save on heat. Conservation has its limits.

We have to develop cheap technology to purify our water of chemicals and salt. And we will. It is just a matter of investment and time.

[NYC_SKP]

31. The coastal community of Cambria simply stopped building new housing units, long ago.

If I knew which community you live in, I could offer alternatives to prevent energy intensive desal plants from going in.

I was just down visiting the new plant at Carlsbad, I'm in a related industry in a profession that provided a lot of information and resources.

If in fact they need to build a plant, that there is no other way, I would strongly recommend that a policy be put in place capping the number of meters and housing units in the area served by that utility to the current number.

I know for a fact that developers would love for there to be lots of desal plants built, then the drought end, then they build more units.

That's how they roll.

And it's unsustainable.

[KamaAina]

38. I've thrown this one out in other water threads

That canal is in India. The Central Valley is laced with thousands of miles of such canals. We could not only prevent a lot of evaporation loss, but generate a lot of electricity, some of which could be used for desalination.

[Politicalboi]

4. Exactly

There is technology out there to do this. What are they waiting for. I see signs off the 99 highway talking bad about Pelosi and Dems in Ca about water. These assholes don't understand the circle of life I guess. Desalination is the answer IMO. If this were oil they most certainly would do it.

[Ned Flanders]

19. illegal signs

Another minor bit of IOKIYAR:

those signs are still there, blaming Dems for the water shortages, yet several years back when Greenies put up signs near the delta in response, they were legally forced to remove them, due to the Highway Beautification Act, I believe. I can't find the link, sorry, but does it surprise you?

[Throd]

30. You can put signs on your property as long as you don't violate setback requirements.

I have 20 years working in the sign industry here in California and can bore anybody to death with the minutiae of securing a signage permit.

[Ned Flanders]

44. I need to find that link...

I recall the land was owned by the sign posters, specially purchased for just that reason. Then again, grey matter and all that. I defer to the sign guy. One of the things I love about DU is how often I get schooled about stuff by true experts in their field.

[Ned Flanders]

45. Here's a link to video

Signs were confisicated, for being within 660' of the freeway.

http://www.kcra.com/news/Caltrans-confiscates-protest-signs-Delta-residents-angry/21254156

[Throd]

49. Caltrans was wrong to confiscate those signs. The 14' setback should have been the standard.

A lot of cities and government agencies use bullshit and bluster to silence people. The Calstrans spokeshole was a classic example of that.

[CreekDog]

24. so you want to desalinate ocean water to irrigate Central Valley farms?

how will those farms pay for such expensive water?

sounds like you posted a knee jerk reaction that isn't based on science.

[JDPriestly]

26. If you had told me in 1970 that one day I would have a lap-top computer that could link me

to the world sitting on my desk, I would have laughed in your face.

The purification and desalination of water is the next technology to be developed.

As I explained in the late 1950s, my husband worked on computers that filled a room. They had tubes that had to be replaced. The geniuses that developed the kinds of computers we have today were born in the mid-1950s. Voila. Like a miracle, we have the internet.

The technology to purify and desalinate water will become less and less expensive. Our food may become more expensive. But our food will become more expensive if we allow drought to eliminate the crops from California's Central Valley. It isn't a choice. We have to have water for those fields. And the water that is available and becoming increasingly abundant is the salty ocean water. We will have to learn to desalinate it or face very high food prices.

Besides it isn't just about that area of California. Southern California also faces recurring water shortages. Yet Southern California is a great place to live because we do not have the cold weather that impedes a lot of activity in other areas of the country. And besides, we are the gateway to Asia.

So in spite of the current expense of water desalination, I think we will come to rely on it more and more for agriculture and life in our climate.

[CreekDog]

32. the technology isn't the issue, it's the energy

do you have any idea how much it costs to desalinate in terms of energy? i'll answer that --no because you think the cost of the technology is the limiting factor --it's not.

do you have any idea how much it costs to move water in terms of energy? i'll answer that too --no, because you haven't even mentioned that in any of your statements, as if it were a trivial consideration --it's not.

just moving water to and around the LA Area uses an astounding amount of energy and you're proposing increasing that, many fold!

[JDPriestly]

43. And the sun and the ocean itself produce a lot of energy. It is a matter of harnessing that

energy and using it to desalinate the water. I trust technology. It is astounding how creative the people now working to develop new technologies are.

[upaloopa]

51. We know how to desalinate water. We have a plant in here in Santa Barbara. It isn't cost effective

Desalination

http://www.santabarbaraca.gov/gov/depts/pw/resources/system/sources/desalination.asp

Project Status

The City’s Charles E. Meyer Desalination Plant is in long-term standby mode and is not currently producing drinking water for the City. The City constructed the reverse osmosis seawater desalination facility as an emergency water supply in response to the severe drought from 1986 to 1991. In 1996 the City obtained a Coastal Development Permit for the facility to meet regional drought needs and for baseline operation during non-drought periods. Due to sufficient freshwater supplies since 1991, the facility remains in long-term standby mode for reactivation within two years. It is expected to be reactivated only when water supply demand cannot be met using all other available supplies including extraordinary water conservation.

After three years of below average rainfall, the City declared a Drought on February 11, 2014. Cachuma and Gibraltar Reservoirs, which provide the majority of the City’s water supply, are at low levels with record low rainfall in the last year. According to the City’s Long Term Water Supply Plan 2011 (LTWSP2011), in this situation the City would consider using “Drought Supplies” such as State Water that is banked for use during dry periods or from the purchase of water during the critical drought period. Due to the severity of the present statewide drought, it is possible that neither of these supplies will be available. Therefore, it is prudent to consider reactivating the City desalination facility. For more information on the drought, visit our Drought Webpage.

On May 6, 2014, City Council authorized execution of a contract in the amount of $746,025 for preliminary design services for reactivating the desalination facility. Assuming continuation of current weather conditions, the City is preparing to be ready to award a construction contract as early as April 2015. However, due to the substantial cost of facility reactivation, a final decision will be delayed as long as reasonably possible, depending on water consumption and water supply factors.

The City’s intentions, as presented in its LTWSP2011, are to use the desalination facility as a drought relief measure as may be needed. A plant capacity of 3,125 AFY was used for purposes of analysis related to the LTWSP2011. However, as part of this preliminary design work we will be re-evaluating the capacity based on the circumstances in the current dry period.

Background

In the face of a challenging water supply crisis in the late 1980’s, the City of Santa Barbara (City) constructed a seawater desalination facility as an emergency supply. The production capacity of the facility was 7,500 acre feet per year (AFY) with the potential for expansion up to 10,000 AFY. The neighboring water districts of Montecito and Goleta contracted for entitlements of 1,250 AFY and 3,069 AFY, respectively, during the five year contract period. The City had entitlement to 3,181 AFY. All sharing of costs for construction was based on these entitlements.

After the plant was constructed, it was operated between March and June of 1992. Due to abundant rainfall in the 1991-1992 winter and subsequent winters, the City’s drought condition was relieved and the desalination plant was placed into a standby mode. The $34 million total construction cost was paid off during the initial 5-year contract period by the City, Goleta Water District, and Montecito Water District, with a City share of approximately $14.5 million. However, the Goleta and Montecito Water Districts did not elect to extend or renew their interest in the facility after the initial five year contract period.

On June 4, 1991, City voters elected to make desalination a permanent part of the City’s water supply portfolio. With the approval of the Long Term Water Supply Program on July 5, 1994 (LTWSP1994) the City added the desalination facility to its permanent sources of water. An Environmental Impact Report on the LTWSP1994 was certified on May 24, 1994. On October 15, 1996, the California Coastal Commission issued a Coastal Development Permit to the City for permanent desalination facilities up to a maximum capacity of 10,000. The permit provided for intermittent and base load operation.

Council Agenda Report: Preliminary Design Services for Recommissioning the Desalination Facility
Video: Desalination Plant Preliminary Design Contract - City Council May 6, 2014

Last Updated: Dec 22, 2014

[roody]

3. The farmers need to find a new

way to farm.

[DeSwiss]

6. Bingo!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017234803

[24601]

9. Like Soylent Green. n/t

[DeSwiss]

7. These guys need a new paradigm.

- But industries, like large vessels, are hard to turn quickly. That's what got the Titanic.

K&R

[seabeckind]

14. Even harder to turn when they make more profit by not turning n/t

[daleanime]

28. +1

[ColesCountyDem]

10. Living a water-rich lifestyle in a semi-arid environment is unsustainable. n/t

[LeftyMom]

17. The area in question is practically a swamp most years

and the usual water problem is that there's too much of it.

You have no idea what you're talking about and couldn't find the San Joaquin delta with GPS and a sherpa guide so you probably shouldn't offer advice.

[Ned Flanders]

20. not quite right

Are you talking about the Delta or Tulare area? The Delta is a pale comparison of what it used to be, now heavily channeled and "managed," intersected with dikes and canals. A certain amount of fresh water must reach the Bay, or salinity increases and species suffer, with the negative effects spreading throughout the food "web." The Delta is also experiencing subsidence as a result (http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2000/fs00500/).

Tulare Lake, when it exists, is very alkaline. Good luck drinking that without serious filtration technology. And the water which isn't extracted from the marshes, which doesn't evaporate, then goes down towards replenishing the aquifer. It is hardly being wasted.

Edited to add: And I am a guide, by the way, although I specialize in the Northern/Central Sierra Nevadas and Basin & Range provinces.

[ColesCountyDem]

23. If it's a swamp, why do they need the water?

Your statement is illogical, insofar as it refers to the farmers' argument. The fact-free insult was a nice touch, though.

[LeftyMom]

42. Because low river flows mean more saltwater intrusion

and saltwater intrusion means you can't grow shit.

It's swampy because that's what river deltas are. Think the Mississippi delta, Nile delta, etc. Marshy, floods regularly, good soil fertility, lots of farmland protected by levees of varying quality.

If you don't know that basic information you really shouldn't offer ill-informed advice.

[ColesCountyDem]

46. You're the one who doesn't understand the problem, apparently.

You can't see the forest for the trees. If the river flow is low, then it means that the crops are too water-intensive or otherwise unsuited to the environment. Furthermore, I'll forget more about farming and hydrology both before my first cup of coffee in the morning than you'll know if you live to be 90, so you can drop the condescension, unless you're looking to rack up a second hidden post.

[sybylla]

11. How about these farmers try farming someplace

where they don't have to steal water from lakes and streams? It's not good ecological sense. The people in California are going to have to choose: water for people or water for farming. Because it appears the water problem is going to be there for the long haul.

[seabeckind]

13. Define "farmer"

Like so many other anti-people crusades, the corporate agri-business uses a mental image of the guy struggling to make a living on a small piece of land

to mask the reality of a massive factory farm operation where the "farmer" wears a suit and flies over those fields in a private jet. The only time he got dirt under his fingernails was when he fell off the patio into the flower garden (maintained by a less than minimum wage worker).

[reddread]

15. Jerry's ditch will get water where they really need it

for fracking.

[psychopomp]

18. DO YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE NICE, OMAHA STEVE?

It'd be nice if you'd refrain from posting your LBN submissions in all-CAPS.

Thanks for your posts, anyways.

[madfloridian]

21. Omaha Steve gets to use whatever case letters he chooses. He contributes so much here.

Okay by me if he uses all caps. His posts are worth it.

[daleanime]

29. You are joking.....

right?

[KamaAina]

37. NO. WHAT?

[progressoid]

39. AP done it.

Cut and paste. I do it too.

[Xithras]

40. The Delta Smelt is a foundational species.

They're like krill in the ocean. They may be tiny and relatively insignificant looking, but they are the base of a foodchain that supports countless other fish and bird species. If the smelt goes, the rest of the Delta food chain collapses along with it. Opponents of the laws protecting the smelt fail to mention this because "Farmers bankrupted to protect microscopic fish" gets more sympathy than "Court refuses to allow farmers to destroy entire Delta ecosystem."

[DeSwiss]

41. Very well put. n/t

[daleanime]

47. Nailed it....

[musiclawyer]

50. Ca can let the Central Valley go to desert ...

There would be enough water for people but very expensive crops . Ca can't have both people AND large scale corporate global supplying farming without desalinization solar technology

We had the microprocessing revolution

We have the technology to get rid of the internal combustion engine shortly.

Now it's time for the next great technological leap. It involves removing salt from water. No choice. California is not going back to its WWII era population

[DetlefK]

53. "Most fertile agricultural region" my ass

California is a desert-state. Wasteful watering policies are the only reason they have agriculture in the first place.