Breivik says not guilty over Norway killings

[pampango]

Source: Aljazeera

Anders Behring Breivik "acknowledges acts" but denies all charges over killing spree that left 77 people dead.


Breivik gave an apparent far-right salute as he entered the court on Monday morning

"I acknowledge the acts, but not criminal guilt," Anders Behring Breivik told the court on Monday morning, referring to the July 2011 attacks over which prosecutors accuse him of committing acts of terror.

"I do not recognise the Norwegian courts. You have received your mandate from political parties which support multiculturalism", Breivik told the court, adding that he wished to be tried in a military court. "I do not acknowledge the authority of the court."

Entering his plea on Monday, he said he had acted in self-defence. His lawyers had earlier said he would argue that his actions were "cruel but necessary". Breivik has said he acted alone against those he considered to be "state traitors" for opening Norway up to multiculturalism and allowing a "Muslim invasion" of Europe.

But many Norwegians feel Breivik will use the trial as a showcase for far-right views expounded in a more-than 1,500-page document published online prior to the attack. In that self-styled manifesto, Breivik described a trial as offering "a stage to the world".

Read more: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/04/201241544635567716.html

---

A BBC report indicated that the Breivik's testimony could be quite graphic:

His lawyer has said his (Breivik's) only regret is that "he did not go further"

"It is difficult to understand, but I am telling you this to prepare people for his testimony," Geir Lippestad told reporters before the trial.

Parts of the trial will be shown on television, but the court will not allow Breivik's testimony or that of his witnesses to be broadcast. Breivik is scheduled to take the stand for about a week, starting on Tuesday.

The BBC's Steve Rosenberg in Oslo says that with Breivik not expected to express any remorse for his actions, his trial promises to be an ordeal for the families of those killed and for those who survived the attacks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17724535

[onehandle]

1. Ah, yes. The fist salute of a man who bought his guns legally. nt

[MrScorpio]

2. Observation that he's genuinely remorseful over his own actions...

Appropriate "sarcasm" smiley.

[Remmah2]

15. That damned Norway Rifle Association. nt

nt

[ellisonz]

19. Norway massacre suspect Anders Behring Breivik says he bought part of his arsenal in the U.S.

BY CORKY SIEMASZKO
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Thursday, July 28, 2011

The Muslim-hating right wing extremist who went on a killing spree in Norway claims he bought part of his deadly arsenal in the U.S.

Anders Behring Breivik made the admission in the mad multi-page manifesto he wrote before he allegedly slaughtered 76 people in cold blood.

"Had to buy through a smaller US supplier (who again ordered from other suppliers) as most suppliers have export limitations," Breivik wrote.

Breivik didn't name the vendor who sold him 10 30-round magazines, which are illegal in Norway, for his assault rifle.

More: http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-07-28/news/29848262_1_high-capacity-ammo-magazines-norway-s-police-security-service-gun-laws

[onehandle]

21. Violence is our top export. And gun-happy states export straw-purchased guns to victim states...

...within our borders.

All guns start out legal.

[geckosfeet]

3. This sociopathic person is divorced from reality.

And reality is glad to get rid of him.

I just hope they put a muzzle on him and stow him away for good.

[Diclotican]

5. geckosfeet

geckosfeet

I don't think he will be given anything less than 21 year prison time - and then also some time in "protective custody" in prison, as we do have laws, who can put prisoners who is a danger to them selfs, or to others can be keep under lock and key for as long as it is seen nessesary...

Diclotican

[geckosfeet]

6. Understood. Just expresssing my feelings about him

and what he has done and what he has said.

He is truly a danger to others. How he could have been ruled sane is question in my mind.

[davidthegnome]

7. He's evil

Which does not necessarily mean insane - depending on how you define it. I'm no believer in demons or devils, but I do believe there are evil human beings in this world.

[Diclotican]

11. geckosfeet

geckosfeet

He IS evil... And he wil never se the day that he would be free.... The day he was to walk out the prison door, as a "free" man, he might have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life, as many would have a word with him - and posible beat the crap out of him.. Even violent murderes and rapist, who have a lot on their "guilt" was shocked about what he did, and some clearly also have told their prison guards, and others - that if he ever was given freedom, they would hunt him down, and kill him...

Diclotican

[hlthe2b]

8. He'll be out in 20 odd years... that's the max.... Frightening, isn't it?

I am firmly anti-death penalty, but life without parole--that seems the only alternative for someone like this.

[sabbat hunter]

14. or at least

21 years for each person he killed served consecutively. That would in effect be the same thing.

But I guess Norway also has preventive detention laws that could also keep him in prison well beyond the 21 years.

[Diclotican]

18. sabbat hunter

sabbat hunter

If it had been possible, he would - but it isn't.. But we do have what is called preventive detention, that means that a person who is recognized as a danger to himself, or to others can be kept in a mental ward or a prison as long as is it is seen as a danger...

Diclotican

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. He will not be out in 20 years

Silly misrepresentation of the Norwegian system.

[hlthe2b]

31. Documentation?

Facts are that he COULD be. If you can say with certainty that is not the case, BACK IT UP.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. You didn't say he "could be" ...you said he "will" be, and claimed that 20 years was "the max"

It is false that he WILL of necessity be released in 20 years. He could be detained after that indefinitely. It's false that 20 years is the maximum period for which he may be detained. He may be detained for 30 years, 40 years, 60 years, whatever.

Let's not pretend that I'm claiming a certainty while you're not. Obviously, there is no documentation for what "could" happen 21 years hence. Where's YOUR documentation that he WILL get out in 20 years?

So, I'll agree that he COULD be out in 20 years if you retract that he WILL be out in 20 years and assert that he COULD spend the rest of his life in prison. I think it's more likely that he will spend the rest of his life in prison, but whatever. He COULD, yes?

Like I said, you're providing a silly misrepresentation of the Norwegian system.

[hlthe2b]

34. I said he will be based on sentencing ability unless something else can be done...which is exactly

why Norwegians are upset and questioning their otherwise very humane and humanistic judicial system.

[alcibiades_mystery]

35. There is a clear method for keeping him locked away

Consistent and periodic review of his status. At each review, he can be re-upped for more detention. Indefinitely.

I have no problem with parole as a possibility for anyone; it is false to say that consistent review of his status means he will be released. For someone this dangerous, it's extremely unlikely that he will be.

[hlthe2b]

36. "will" or "can" it is semantics only-- without a sentence which denies parole

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. Yeah, whatever

You said he will be released in 20 years. That's not true. He could be, or he could not be. The difference is hardly "only semantic."

[Diclotican]

42. hlthe2b

hlthe2b

I am pretty sure, that he WOULD NOT BE A FREE MAN IN THIS TIMELINE... He will never be a free man again, as long as he live... He have a theoretical possibility for freedom - but then he have to show remorse and to rehabilitate.. And I doubt a man like Anders Breivik Will NEVER repent, or be able to be rehabilitated.. Even after he is served his "life" in prison.. He Will be kept in a ward for as long as he is alive, and Will never be able to walk out as a free man.. If he ever was able to do that, he would be in more danger on the outside, than ever on the inside as most Norwegians would have 5 minutes with him - alone in a room with no windows.. And I suspect he would not be able to breathe after that..

Diclotican

[hlthe2b]

43. I certainly hope not...

Know that I'm not criticizing the Norwegian judicial system-- which it seems to me is far more humane than most and certainly more so than our own. But, this comes under the "unintended consequences"... I believe in rehabilitation, but i have little doubt he will ALWAYS be a threat.

[Diclotican]

44. hlthe2b

hlthe2b

The principe in our juridical system - is to rehabilitate most, but some is not able, or willing to be rehabilitate and this few ones, have always been some of a problem for the juridical system.. But we have always had the possibility of putting them in a ward, if it is a possibility that they could be a danger even after many years in the prison, or mental ward system..

And in Breiviks case I am pretty sure the juridical system will make it impossible for him to ever leave the prison system.. If he ever get loose again.... I shudder to even think about it... It wil be a verry cold place in hell, before he got out of the prison system, or maybe after 21 in prison, more into the mental ward system, where he wil live for the rest of his life...

Diclotican

[Diclotican]

4. pampango

pampango

This will interesting 10 weeks ahead of us, where we might get to know, little more about this man-man.. who must be the most mad man that have ever been born in Norway....

And I think also, that mr Geir Lippestad, as his attorney have a hell of a job before him, to try to justify the un-justifiable...

I hope he will be put in a small cell, for the rest of his natural life, when the trial is over..

Diclotican

[hlthe2b]

9. Wow... Duers here seem not to know that the max he can get is around 20 years--that's it.

this is what has the Norwegian people rethinking EVERYTHING about their criminal justice system.

There is currently NO option for life without parole behind bars. He's 33 now, which means he could be only in his early to mid 50s when released. Think he will have mellowed? I sincerely doubt it.

[Diclotican]

13. hlthe2b

hlthe2b

The maximal time to be put in a prison is 21 years, thats true- But we do have the possibility to keep him under lock and key as long as he never is showing anything near remorse for what he did... And I doubt we will get maximal time up to life as in US anytime soon.. Mostly because Mr Breivik can not be given a stricter prison time, then the laws of the land, who was part of the Justice system when he did his crime - and 22 july, the maximal time to get prison was 21 year behind bars...

What he can be, and maybe will be given is "protective custody" where he would be under psychiatric ward, to the day he might be seen as "rehabilitated". And I doubt he will be seen fit to go out in the world, anytime soon.. He have not shown any regrets or feelings, other than he was shown his own "Movie", then he cried, and specialist on it, have said it was because he was proud about him self, not necessary feeling any regrets for what he did....

I hope Mr Breivik will never go into the community after 22 july 2011.. For both us on the outside - and for him inside the prison I believe it to be the best, to ever be given freedom. He Will be hunted down, and hurt - maybe killed if he ever was given freedom...

The fact is that what mr Breivik DID, is something that I doubt our criminal justise system was build for.. One kill, is bad enough but over 80 murdered... That have never happened in Norway before - at least not since world war two...

Diclotican

[cstanleytech]

23. What about just charging him with say 10 of the murders, serving his time and then 10 more murders

as soon as the times up? Assuming of course no statue of limitations for murder.

[Diclotican]

25. cstanleytech

cstanleytech

A good idea - even though I doubt it will work in our criminal Justice system... If it had been possible, he would be away for a long, long time.... As it is, he would be away for more than 20 year - before "protective custody" is put into the game - and he would be put into a prison one way or another for the rest of his life...

But the whole idea behind our criminal Justice system, is to rehabilitate people, not to keep them inside for the rest of their life....

Diclotican

[cstanleytech]

26. True rehabilitation is part of it but the other part is punishment for people deciding to commit

crimes like this and considering how severe the crime is we are discussing do you believe that rehabilitation is very likely to be achieved?

[Diclotican]

27. cstanleytech

cstanleytech

My personal idea of it?. I don't believe he ever will be able to be rehabilitated as it is today.. And therefore, even after he have been in prison for 20 or so year, he will be a danger to himself - or others, and have to be in the custody of a mental institution where he can be given the help he need... He will never be able to walk out a prison gate, as a free man... Some persons, is just not able to be rehabilitated, and should be kept under control for the rest of their life...


Diclotican

[TBF]

38. I doubt that rehabilitation will happen in this case-

but I appreciate the explanation of your court system and the goals behind it.

[Diclotican]

39. TBF

TBF

At least I try to explain it - not that I am a attorney and therefore doesn't know the inner working of the juridical system.. But I do understand the bare basic - and the idea behind prison time, is to rehabilitate, and make people who have doing crime, go out in the community again - hopefully learned the skills to cope with life, and not be a criminal longer..

But in the case of Mr Breivik, I really doubt that he will ever been able to live outside of the prison, or in the custody of the State.. I honesty believe that the best is to never let him walk out as a free man. I honesty believe he would do it again, if he was ever given freedom.. He doesn't see to have any remorse for what he did... For the most part he is "cold as ice" and is not showing any feeling or remorse at all... Even old friends of him, are telling that he found the man creepy..

Diclotican

[Odin2005]

10. Nazi dipshit.

[slackmaster]

12. Severely mentally ill.

[jakeXT]

16. His sleep or trance state was interesting

Victims’ relatives sobbed softly and wiped away tears while Breivik appeared unaffected and listened with his eyes closed in a strange meditative state, at times even appearing as if he was nodding off to sleep. The indictment recommends that Breivik be sentenced to compulsory mental care.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/world/knight-templar-anders-behring-breivik-weeps-in-court-as-he-defends-killings-as-crusade-against-islam-7646919.html

[frogmarch]

17. Nazi dirtbag! What a freak.

I hope he gets what's coming to him.

[cstanleytech]

24. What he claims to be doesnt matter its his actions that matter and hes a mass murder who hopefully

will be kept imprisoned for the rest of his days in order to prevent him from murdering more innocent people as he has shown a willingness to do.

[ellisonz]

20. Ghoul. n/t

[pampango]

22. WaPo: Does mass media coverage help killer in Norway promote his far-right, anti-immigration cause?

Before his gruesome slaughter, Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik described in a manifesto how he would use the trial against him to gain worldwide attention and spread extreme right-wing ideas.

When the Oslo courtroom doors opened Monday, his wish was at least partly fulfilled.

“He is obviously pleased that he will be able to explain himself and that there is an interest in the case, there is no doubt about that,” Breivik’s defense lawyer Geir Lippestad said after the first day in court.

“The trial has already given the perpetrator all he dreamed of,” Norwegian reporter Aasne Seierstad wrote before trial. “Everything seems to be ticking nicely along according to his plan: a stage, a pulpit, a spellbound, notebook-clutching, pencil-wielding audience.”

“The dilemma is obvious,” she wrote in an op-ed article published by Newsweek and the Swedish daily Dagens Nyheter. “Do we increase his importance in this way, subsidizing him, even, to the tune of $2 million a week? Are we puppets on a string, or are we doing what’s right and necessary?”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/does-mass-media-coverage-help-killer-in-norway-promote-his-far-right-anti-immigration-cause/2012/04/16/gIQA79xkLT_story.html

[jakeXT]

28. I really want to know about others involved and the money trail

The court has broken for a break, after the prosecution managed to tease out more nuances from Breivik on whether he acted alone or is really, as he claims part of a secret international organisation called the Knights Templars.

...

As for the organisation he claims to represent, Breivik still maintains that there were two other "independent, self-going cells" operating alongside him in Norway.

He is also sticking to the claim that he attended a meeting with three other "militant nationalists" in London in 2002.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9208311/Norway-killer-Anders-Behring-Breivik-trial-day-two-live.html

[4th law of robotics]

30. "I do not acknowledge the authority of the court."

Damn, he figured out the loophole. As long as you say you don't recognize a courts authority it's powerless to do anything to you (kinda like how you have to invite a vampire in to your house).

I hope no one else figures this out.

[Diclotican]

40. 4th law of robotics

4th law of robotics

Well at least "we" can hold him inside a prison, or an mental ward for the rest of his natural life... And that would more than possible be the case here, that he would be hold inside a prison cell, for as long as he live... Readiness of it is 2 or 50 year down the road...

He might not "acknowledged the authority of the court". But the same court can put him behind the prison walls - and hold him there for as long as they feel it is right..

But, I also fear, that the whole juridical system have to find their footing on this, mostly because I doubt we have had anything like this for a long time in our court system at all.. This is "unknown water" so to say..

Diclotican

[Mosaic]

32. Execute the bastard!

Enough said!

[Diclotican]

41. Mosaic

Mosaic

Norway is a Civilized nation, we doesn't execute people - and would not do it either...

Diclotican

[pampango]

45. Wells said, Diclotican. n/t