Chevrolet 'Bolt' Concept 200-Mile Electric Car To Target Tesla

[IDemo]

Source: Green Car Reports

On Monday, General Motors will unveil a concept version of a $30,000 battery-electric vehicle with 200 miles of electric range that will arrive on the market before the planned Tesla Model 3, according to reports.

Called the Chevrolet Bolt, the concept is a compact five-door hatchback that uses lithium-ion cells from LG Chem, GM's established battery partner.

Late last night, reports appeared in The Wall Street Journal and The Detroit News giving leaked details of the car, attributed only to "sources" within the auto industry said to be familiar with the Bolt.

GM spokesperson Terry Rhadigan would not confirm the reports, according to the News, but he also didn't deny or contradict them.

Read more: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1096226_breaking-chevrolet-bolt-concept-200-mile-electric-car-to-target-tesla-reports

[NickB79]

1. Not bad if you can get all the EV rebates available in some states

Nissan LEAF's cost only a little less, yet get just half the range (100 miles).

200 miles of range would push it past the "fear factor" most people have of being stranded if they run out of electricity, IMO. I or my wife could take turns driving it for work all week and plug it in on the weekends.

[Lionel Mandrake]

3. About the Nissan Leaf ...

The actual range is far short of what is advertised, even if you are driving at no more than 55 MPH in the slow lane of a freeway with light traffic. To maximize the range you have to charge the battery to 100%, which is hard on the battery. Nissan recommends charging to only 80%, which they call the "long life" mode, but which might just as well be called the "extra-short range" mode. To maximize range you should also avoid running the heater or A/C and set the pseudo-gear-shift to "econ" mode, which reduces performance markedly. And never brake hard or accelerate rapidly.

On the other hand, the Leaf is a real car, not just a concept.

[eggplant]

11. Don't the use regenerative brakes?

So hard braking would *help* battery life.

[Kelvin Mace]

16. No, because you are losing speed quckly and

while you are generating power, you are drastically curtailing the amount of time you are generating it. You want a long gradual braking process. Ideally, in "Eco mode", you take your foot off the throttle and let the drag of the generator slow you down. That is how you get maximum from regenerative breaking.

[eggplant]

54. Got it. My mistake.

From http://www.ecrostech.com/prius/QandA/Brake.htm

When you brake, the Prius computers configure MG2 as a generator and use it to charge the battery. The torque needed to spin MG2 as a generator slows the car. However, there is a limit to the rate at which the battery can safely accept energy from MG2. Therefore, there is a limit to how much braking torque regenerative braking can give you. If you ask the braking system to slow you down faster than the maximum regenerative braking torque allows, the friction brakes will also come on. Now you are throwing away energy. The trick, then, is to ask only for the braking force that regenerative braking can supply. This maximizes the amount of energy recovered and stored in the battery. Safetly must always come first, of course, so you must plan ahead to make this possible. Again, anticipate the need to slow and get off the accelerator. Begin braking early and brake gently.

[Kelvin Mace]

56. The Leaf shows you regenerative

energy on the display. You have a zero point and bubbles to the right are consuming power, but when you are "freewheeling" or braking, the bubbles go to the left, meaning that energy is going back into the battery. Looking at my numbers I recover about 20% of my electricity this way.

[whatthehey]

74. false on many fronts

1) it's easy to exceed 100 miles on a Leaf charge - I have documented doing so many times as have many others. Just like some people will never realize stated mpg in an ICE car, some folks are just inefficient drivers.

2) The 80% charging terminology is not used in the Leaf manual currently. hasn't been for a while and was found not to be true in any event in real world use. The current Leaf doesn't even HAVE a charge to 80% setting.

3) Econ does not reduce performance in the slightest, it merely changes pedal response to allow for easier power manipulation, and it reduces heater power. It also technically doesn't affect range in any way except for clumsy drivers who don't know how to use a pedal properly or use coasting where appropriate.

[Lionel Mandrake]

76. Okay, so my Leaf is not the current model.

Maybe the current model is better in some ways. Maybe the information in my owner's manuel is outdated.

That's interesting about econ mode reducing heater power. I wonder if that's true for my car as well as the current model.

What was "found not to be true in any event in real world use" in your item #2? Was it the statement that charging to 80% would make the battery live longer? Can you provide a reference for this?

[Lionel Mandrake]

80. No, it's not easy to exceed 100 miles on a Leaf charge

for most driving conditions. Nissan's own estimates of range exceed 100 miles only if cruising (going a constant 38 mph) or in light city traffic. For heavy traffic with A/C in use, their estimate is 47 miles. This has nothing to do with how clumsy the driver is.

My source for these figures is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf#Battery

[Kelvin Mace]

15. Very hard to get 100 mile range on a Leaf

The average is 50-75 miles depending on how you drive, the weather, etc. We like it, but they have a ways to go before they can replace ICE cars. As a rule of thumb, half any claimed range and you will never wind up stuck.

That said, I think that electric cars are going to reach the tipping point in the next 5 years.

[7962]

2. Good to see battery life improvements. Thats the key to success for these vehicles

For me, its still nowhere near practical. But one of my jobs isnt normal; I drive up to 500 miles on some days. But for the average person, this is getting close

[a kennedy]

4. My dream car, the Tesla S

http://www.caranddriver.com/photo-gallery/2014-tesla-model-s-60-full-test-review


I want one bad.

[NBachers]

6. They're not uncommon where I live - Such beautiful cars! I don't begrudge anyone who owns one.

But I'll also be watching the progress of the Bolt.

[a kennedy]

7. Did you notice the "dream car"....ha ha ha, would NEVER be able to afford one,

and you're right, the Bolt does have possibilities, just hope they jazz it up in style.

[NBachers]

36. I see an occasional Volt around, and I'm always glad to see it. There are some Sparks, too.

I was driving down 101 today and drove beside a beautiful shiny black Tesla. The driver was just as beautiful as the car. There seem to be plenty of women driving the Model S around.

If I was able to get either one or the other, I'd probably lean toward the Volt, but I could be tipped the other way. As an ex-Michigan resident, I still pay attention to what's going on back there.

[Fumesucker]

38. Welcome to DU

Hell, gas is under two bucks a gallon, get a 4x4 F350 crew cab and live it up on the dino juice

Or maybe a Kenworth Pilgrimage.

[kentauros]

61. Or just get a Marauder,

for only £300,000

[Auggie]

5. K&R. Let's here it for American ingenuity (I hope).

[StevieM]

8. I wonder if flow battery cars will ever be viable. That could take care of the range issues. (eom)

[yurbud]

9. If they actually made it, this would be that I could use AND ALMOST afford

[sendero]

10. If it looks anything like the Volt or the Cruze....

.... it will be DOA, people don't like ugly cars. IMHO.

[madokie]

13. You made me laugh

out loud even. lawd a mercy LOL

[Kelvin Mace]

17. Weird, because most reviewers hate how the Leaf looks

but it is the top selling EV. I really don't see what's to hate about the Volt. I mean, it isn't a Tesla, but it isn't an AMC Matador either.

[47of74]

19. Eat me.

Volts are things of beauty. Especially mine.

[Kelvin Mace]

25. Yeah, I don't get the "Volt's are ugly" thing at all.

Also, Leafs look pretty neat, but apparently no one likes the red ones.

[sendero]

27. Park it next to a Tesla..

... or a VW for goodness sakes. It's ugly.

[goldent]

29. Most sedans look about the same to me.

I don't think this Telsa looks that much different from the Volt above, or most other sedans on the road.

[47of74]

42. Yeah - there are a couple rules in my book.

One of them is never insult 47's Volt.

[goldent]

43. I would love to have a volt but can't justify the price.

My commute is now shorter and a Bolt would work for me.

With the Volt, how much do you think you drive it on battery only, vs. having the engine running?

[47of74]

45. Right now probably 60 to 80 percent.

Because it's colder out the car doesn't get quite as far as it does otherwise on battery. At these temperatures battery is about 50 to 75 percent what it is during the summer. I usually get about 20 to 25 miles in the winter. If I go out in to town I usually have a few miles in gas mode by the time I get home. Still it's enough that I can get over 600 miles on 7 gallons of gas and only fill up once a month - and that's even with a trip to the Quad Cities (about 100 miles each way) in the mix as well.

Once it gets warmer it'll be 75 to 100 percent electric. It'll probably be closer to 100% electric for daily driving. I can go in to town, make 1/2 dozen stops and have anywhere from 10 to 20 miles worth of charge when I pull into the garage at home. I've seen it get over 40 miles on a charge in the summer.

[Kelvin Mace]

52. Check them out used at some place like CMax

They get a LOT cheaper after two years. I have seen them for $17-$18K with coming off a lease with 30,000 miles on them.

[Kelvin Mace]

30. Yes, but $50,000

is a hell of a premium for looks. As for the Golf, it really looks about the same as every other car out there.

[Xithras]

77. Eh, I'm in the "it's ugly" camp.

It's a sedan, which costs it a lot of style points all by itself. But on top of that, it has a weird double grill that looks like diamond plate, that odd plastic black sill under the windows, and probably the ugliest ass end that GM has put on any vehicle since the Aztek.

GM seems to agree, as the redesigned 2016 Volt fixes all of those problems. The faux grill has ditched the weird diamond look for something a bit more artistic, it's a lot more aggressive looking in the frontend to downplay its sedan frumpyishness, it's ditched the plasticky bits under the windows, and the rearend has been completely redesigned.

I still wouldn't buy one because I dislike sedans, but the 2016 should do a lot to quiet the people who think the Volt is ugly.

[itsrobert]

69. The Prius does pretty good

and that is one fugly car.

[sendero]

70. Fair enough..

.. I will agree that the Prius breaks camera lenses. But it is a long term proven reliable technology, nothing GM makes compares in that regard.

[madokie]

12. 200 mile, under 30,000

its getting there. We're going to have an electric option yet

[Burf-_-]

14. I want an electric badly.

If only Elon, and Tesla would make their cars more affordable. I would so go for the Model S in a heartbeat. Is it unheard of as yet to have cars like the Tesla, have their own solar regeneration system to kick in when the charge is running low ? Most likely an expense issue, but an idea that would catch on I'm sure.

[Kelvin Mace]

23. The problem is that you can't put enough

PV cells on the roof to replace the power you are using. You could generate maybe 1.5kw from a rooftop panel, which will get you about 5 miles, but would add about $1,000 to the car's price (yes, I know that there are panels selling for way less than that, but these panels would have to be custom designed to fit INTO the roof, otherwise they would create drag and burn more energy than they produce). You would also be adding more weight to the car, which again reduces "bang for your buck".

Ideally, you could have parking spaces with car ports with roof panels, but each space would cost $8-$10,000 and only produce about 15kw of power, about 60% of the capacity of a Leaf battery, or 20% of a Tesla.

There are a LOT of infrastructure problems to work out, but they are slowly evolving toward solutions.

[Kelvin Mace]

35. Yes, once you start looking

at things objectively, there are trade offs and lots of factors to consider.

[Burf-_-]

49. hmmm interesting....

I'd recently heard heard a Solar CEO talking on NPR talking about the ITC (innovation tax credit) which is set to expire in 2016 for solar start ups, he said our price per watt was about .72 cents .... and a trade war with China is under way... since they produce at about .55 cents per watt.... probably at terrible quality knowing china. He suggested we need to be able to compete on that level with better quality. But i guess it's all going to be forever stifled with the stubborn refusal to start replacing our oil based energy needs with renewable and plentiful energy from the sun.

[Kelvin Mace]

55. Investors have run scared

from solar and dropping oil prices are going to make us do stupid things long term.

The power unit is a rectangular slab about the size of a movie theater screen. It’s mounted on a thick steel post, and equipped with a tracking mechanism that continuously points it at the sun. The slab is made of over 100,000 small lenses and an equal number of even smaller solar cells, each the size of the tip of a ballpoint pen. This contraption is part of one of the most efficient solar power devices ever made.

Semprius, a startup based in Durham, North Carolina, claims that the next generation of this power unit will make solar power the cheapest option for utilities installing new power plants. With fields of over 1,000 of these devices, utilities would produce electricity at less than 5 cents per kilowatt-hour. That is even cheaper than today’s least expensive option: a new natural gas plant.

The technology originated in the lab of John Rogers, a professor of chemistry and materials science and engineering at the University of Illinois. Semprius has raised $45 million from investors including Siemens, and has set records for solar-cell efficiency—meaning the amount of energy in sunlight that is converted into electricity. This year it demonstrated that it could use a version of its technology to make a novel kind of solar cell that, some believe, could convert half of the energy in sunlight into electricity, about three times better than conventional solar cells.

Yet for all the promise of the technology, Semprius is in a tough financial spot. For its technology to be cost-effective, Semprius must scale up the production of its solar cells significantly. Right now it can make enough solar units to produce six megawatts of power per year, but it needs to raise that to at least 200 megawatts. The company is raising $40 million in hopes of doing this. Its current investors say they’ll contribute, and for now they’re loaning the company money to keep it in business, but they won’t do so forever. The company needs a new investor soon. Otherwise it could go under.

http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/531756/will-a-breakthrough-solar-technology-see-the-light-of-day/

[alfredo]

46. Use the PVs to power the AC or heater.

[Kelvin Mace]

51. Well, that is a seriously heavy load as well

3-6kw depending on temp differential, so again, not much help. My Leaf has a small solar panel that charges the 12v battery which provides power for the instrument cluster.

The downside to electric vehicles is that you have to "pay" for the heat, whereas with an ICE, heat is a "free" waste product.

[alfredo]

53. Can they harvest the heat from the batteries?

[Kelvin Mace]

57. The amount of heat the batteries put out is quite neglible

compared to an ICE. The can get much warmer when charging, but that is not when you need the heat <g>.

[alfredo]

60. I'm not sure if pure electric will win out. Other tech is out there

that might turn out to be a better solution. The railroads have used hybrid diesel electric for a long time.

[Kelvin Mace]

62. Yes, but that is due to the massive torque

Of an electric motor over a diesel one. There were true diesel engines, but the hybrid was more powerful and energy efficient. Europe has been running pure electric trains for decades, but they built the infrastructue with electric in mind. When I lived in Switzerland in the 70s, they had electric buses that used the light rail electrical system overhead, but then went to battery to service side routes. There has been talk inductive charging cars/buses at bus stops and traffic lights, but again that is a chicken and egg problem.

[alfredo]

64. When I lived in east Africa our town had electric garbage trucks. That

was in the 1960's.

In the US we have put all our eggs into the petrolmobile basket to the point where changing has become very expensive.

[Kelvin Mace]

18. What is your commute?

For a 20-30 mile commute, the Leaf is plausible and used ones are going for WAY less than new ones. I just bought a 2012 with 9,000 miles on it for $20,000 less than new.

[d_r]

31. cmax energi goes 20 miles

Then the gas kicks in and you can go as far as you need

[Lionel Mandrake]

66. I commute 20 miles each way with a Leaf.

That's a 40 mile round trip, and I haven't run out of juice yet. I used to do this with the extra-short range battery mode (80% of maximum charge), but it was scary how low the battery got on the way back. Once the car spoke a warning to me, saying that if I turned it off it would refuse to start again without a recharge. Nissan doesn't say so, but it's a fact that a deep discharge of the battery is also hard on the battery. So Now I charge it up in the extra-damaging mode (i.e., 100%) and drive it as fast as 71 MPH in the carpool lane, and up to 65 MPH in other lanes. I also use the heater or A/C as needed for comfort. It sometimes gets down in the red zone by the time I get back home, but not so far down as to generate a warning message. I consider 40 miles to be the maximum range of this car for driving on the freeway. My other car is a Prius (that's a Latin word, by the way), which I use for longer trips.

[Kelvin Mace]

67. That has been my experience so far

Though I now keep the 110 cable with me since I have installed a Level 2 at home. That way, if I get into trouble I can look for some place to whole up for an hour and 5-6 miles back into the battery. I do have the advantage of a shorter commute so I can recharge it every other day.

[whatthehey]

75. not mine

to have problems at 40 miles even with some capacity loss you have to be averaging < 2 m/KWh which is an absurdly poor economy. Depending on weather I average between 4 and 5.3 or so. Here is today (the temp gauge reflects an attached garage which houses my furnace and water heater - it's been low to mid 30s outside lately). I'm assuming you've had the car long enough to know that the ominous-sounding "low battery warning" comes on at 17% state of charge?

[IMG][/IMG]

[Kelvin Mace]

78. Haven't done much freeway driving yet

and we are in the middle of a serious cold snap (down to 8 degrees) which has meant running the heater full out. I will have a better feel for it when the weather warms up. Before it went cold I was averaging over 4 mpk.

[sakabatou]

20. But how long will it take to charge?

[47of74]

22. If you can find 480v chargers less than an hour.

You can get 240v chargers for home use that'll charge up in 3 to 4 hours.

[Kelvin Mace]

28. Provided they are Level 2 chargers

Which add about $1,200 to the cost of the car. I have seen $600-$700 charging chords which can be plugged into a dryer socket, but then you can't use one while the other is running. And that is 4 hours for a Leaf, a Tesla would take 12 hours to charge (this assumes a completely "flat" battery and you are well advised not to run them that closed to empty if you don't want to get stuck somewhere).

[47of74]

44. Sounds about right

You have a couple options with level 2s. You can either get the ones that are hardwired into 240v service, or you can get the ones that plug in to outlets like dryers use. I've seen a couple $500 ones out there. Me, I'd probably go for the one that is plugged in to an outlet just because if I were to move I'd want to take it with me.

[Kelvin Mace]

24. Here are the numbers

Look at the capacity of the battery and the power of the chargers:

Leaf has a 24kw battery
Tesla has a 85kw battery.

Looking at standard house hold AC service:

Level 1 - A standard wall socket will produce up to 120 volts at 10 amps. 120x10=1200 watts per hour (1.2kw)
Level 2 - A dryer socket can produce 240 volts at 30 amps. 240x30=7200 watts per hour (7.2kw)

So, under IDEAL conditions you can recharge an "empty" Leaf battery in 20 hours with a Level 1 connection and 4 hours with a Level 2 (it would be faster but the Leaf on-board AC charger is limited to 6.6kw).

A Level 3 charger ("Fast charger&quot is 440 volts at 50-100 amps, producing 22kw-44kw of DC current that can go right into the battery (car batteries actually use DC current, so the systems above are converting AC power to DC power) but the amount of power that a battery can take at once is limited by heat produced during charging. Under optimum circumstances, a Leaf battery can be recharged in 30 minutes, a Tesla in 4 hours.

There is another complicating factor in that there are competing "connector standards" with the Tesla and Japanese cars using one standard for charging and American companies using another.

As usual, reality is complicated.

[Lionel Mandrake]

68. The Tesla model S needs only a 240 volt socket,

like the socket for a dryer. Tesla supplies a cable to plug into the socket.

The Leaf requires a 220 VAC charging station, which is less convenient and costs money. The charging station doesn't do much for a Leaf owner. It has a timer, which is unnecessary because the car also has a timer. The charging station doesn't convert AC to DC, nor does it change the voltage. It simply passes the AC power to the car when asked to do so.

Tesla has high power DC chargers at many locations in California. Leaf has only 240 VAC chargers at Nissan dealerships, even though there are more Leafs than Teslas on the road.

Neither the Leaf nor the Tesla has a spare tire, not even a compact spare.

A new Tesla costs $80,000 to $100,000, depending on options. That's why I drive a Leaf.

[Kelvin Mace]

71. You can do the same thing with a Leaf

as I have seen it done, but you have to buy the 220 cable (which runs $500-$700) to plug into your dryer socket. This setup will charge a Leaf in 4 hours for an "empty" battery. The Tesla's battery is more than three times larger and would take around 12 hours to charge. (This assumes a Leaf with an onboard 6.6kw charger, which comes in the SL package, or costs something like $1500 to add.

I really enjoy my Leaf, and even if I had the money would have a VERY hard time justifying spending $80,000 for a Tesla. I am hoping that Nissan will come out with batteries with greater range, and more importantly, I hope they will make them available as an upgrade for older model cars.

Also, some Fast Chargers would be nice since, as you point out, there are WAY more Leaf's being sold than Teslas.

[47of74]

21. WANT

When it comes time to trade in my Volt (at least two to three years from now) I'll probably go for a Bolt if they're available around here.

[Kelvin Mace]

26. We will probably replace

our ICE with a Volt in a few years. A 200 mile range is nice, but recharging times are still going to be long until fast chargers are common place.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

39. Any idea how much to install the fast charger in a garage?

Last edited Sun Jan 11, 2015, 12:10 AM - Edit history (1)

[47of74]

47. Well...

Chargers start out at about $500. You have a couple options: You can get one that is hardwired to the 220v circuit or you can get one that plugs into an outlet like those used by dryers. Me, I'd go with the plug in variety because if I were to move it'd be easier to take it with me to my new home.

Add on to the price of the charger however much it costs to have the 220v circuit, line, and outlet (if you go with that type of charger) installed. Depending on the amount of work there is to be done I've seen prices of about $300 to $800. Something they did tell me when I bought the car was to check and see if the electric company or government offers financial incentives for installing a level 2 charger. (There wasn't any by either where I live).

I've never really bothered with getting a level 2 charger installed and just used the 120v charger that came with my Volt. True it takes about 10 to 12 hours but I don't need to have the fast charge since once I get home the car usually stays where it is until the next day. The one that comes with the car works with a standard 120v outlet. I've thought about getting a level 2 a few times. I think in my case it'd probably be on the lower end because there's a sub panel in the garage, room for extra circuits, and would be able to have it installed fairly close to the panel.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

48. Sorry, I was asking about the fast charger referred above.

[Kelvin Mace]

50. VERY pricey, since residential areas are rarely

wired for that kind of draw. The number I have heard tossed about is $12-$15K. There is an open source design being sold for around $3400 + install, but you still have to have your house wired for 440 service and you will be pulling 50 amps, so your electric company may have a surcharge.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

63. Too bad. Thanks!

[NBachers]

37. A question I've always had about Volts is how they perform in the snow.

Do you live in a snowy climate? If so, how does the Volt handle on snow and ice?

It's something I kinda wonder about the Tesla, too. I'm not sure if it's a blizzard/gravel/salt/snow/ice car.

[daleo]

40. I talked to some Tesla owners here in Alberta

They said range was still pretty good in the dead of winter, but more like 200 to 300 miles to a charge than the 400 you could expect in other months.

[47of74]

41. Actually I think the Volt handles snow and ice quite well.

I think the extra weight really helps out with the snow and ice. My car seems pretty sure footed on snow and ice. Now it doesn't get quite as far before it goes into gas mode, and sometimes it gets so cold that it switches over to engine to heat up the car, but still I don't use anywhere near the amount of gas I do otherwise.

[NBachers]

59. Yeah, I guess the battery weight, and the low center of gravity, would be good for snow driving.

[PasadenaTrudy]

65. With the miniscule amount

of driving I do, I could be driving a new Challenger or Camaro and still rarely need gas. Right now I drive a Mazda3 hatchback, 2.5. Love this car!

[IDemo]

72. --Update, with image

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/chevrolet-bolt-ev-concept/

[Baclava]

73. If was going to spend $30k on a Chevy I'd rather have this one

430hp - only a couple years old - don't need to plug it in anywhere

[PasadenaTrudy]

79. Me too. n/t