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inanna

(3,547 posts)
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 04:32 PM Jan 2015

More than one million flee, Ukraine close to 'humanitarian catastrophe'

Source: Reuters

LONDON (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - More than one million people have been driven from their homes by the conflict in Ukraine, hampering aid efforts and leaving the country on the verge of a humanitarian catastrophe, aid agencies said on Thursday.

The number of people uprooted within Ukraine, 610,000, and of refugees who have fled to neighboring countries, 594,000, has more than tripled since August, figures from the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) show.

The U.N. said an estimated 5.2 million people in Ukraine were living in conflict zones, of whom 1.4 million were highly vulnerable and in need of assistance as they face financial problems, a lack of services and aid, and harsh winter conditions.

<snip>

Denis Krivosheev, deputy director of Europe and Central Asia at Amnesty International, said residents in separatist-controlled Luhansk and Donetsk could barely afford food and medicines, especially vulnerable people such as pensioners.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/08/us-ukraine-crisis-aid-idUSKBN0KH1VZ20150108?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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More than one million flee, Ukraine close to 'humanitarian catastrophe' (Original Post) inanna Jan 2015 OP
Way to go, chevron, now you can frack till you crack. Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #1
whaaa? uhnope Jan 2015 #3
Not wierd. Read below... Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #5
yes Chevron wanted to frack Ukraine. But that has nothing to do with Putin's invasion uhnope Jan 2015 #6
Just like oil companies had nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq. Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #7
Putin sold russian gas to Ukraine. He invaded partly because Ukraine wanted to start producing their Sunlei Jan 2015 #37
thx uhnope Jan 2015 #43
a reminder that Putin's aggression has horrible human consequences uhnope Jan 2015 #2
I guess the people in Luhansk and Donetsk Blue_Tires Jan 2015 #4
Merkel: working on possible meeting on Ukraine in Kazakhstan bemildred Jan 2015 #8
EU leaders raise hopes of Putin breakthrough over Ukraine bemildred Jan 2015 #18
Proposed Russia-Ukraine meeting increasingly likely to lead to substantive peace negotiations bemildred Jan 2015 #19
Russia's 11th Humanitarian Convoy Delivers Aid to Luhansk bemildred Jan 2015 #9
Ukraine blames Russia for German hack bemildred Jan 2015 #10
German Chancellor Merkel talks Russian sanctions with Ukrainian PM bemildred Jan 2015 #20
With IMF back in Kiev, bankrupt Ukraine seeks West unity bemildred Jan 2015 #11
EU's Juncker announces new 1.8b euros in Ukraine aid bemildred Jan 2015 #21
Ukraine Bonds Gain Most on Record as EU Pledges More Aid bemildred Jan 2015 #24
Soros urges Europe to throw Ukraine $50 billion lifeline bemildred Jan 2015 #12
Europe will print money, it's just a matter of time bemildred Jan 2015 #13
Ukrainian envoy to Ankara: Turkey can be an energy hub without Russia bemildred Jan 2015 #14
Ukraine ministry, traders to meet on grain exports next week bemildred Jan 2015 #15
NATO Head Says Russia Anti-Terror Cooperation Important bemildred Jan 2015 #16
Freed Ukrainian Journalist Says Separatists 'Being Trained For An Offensive' bemildred Jan 2015 #17
. nt bemildred Jan 2015 #22
News Analysis: Bombing Campaign Opens New Front In Battle For Ukraine bemildred Jan 2015 #25
I love irony. Igel Jan 2015 #29
I did think that was notable in it's cognitive disconnect. nt bemildred Jan 2015 #32
hard for the people in the conflict zones. missed major grain planting seasons, not much to export. Sunlei Jan 2015 #23
Well, if you read post #15, it says Ukraine has already exported 80% of the available wheat crop. bemildred Jan 2015 #28
millions of people fled the war areas,was mostly farmlands other then the people who fled crimea Sunlei Jan 2015 #30
Yeah, I know, but Ukraine is still selling it. bemildred Jan 2015 #31
Putin stuck them with a huge price gouge, gas bill to justify the theft as he loots that country. Sunlei Jan 2015 #33
Hey, if you are going to be enemies, that's what enemies do. bemildred Jan 2015 #35
Its Russia's problem that they depend so much on domestic gas/crude to trade for everything else. Sunlei Jan 2015 #39
That still doesn't mean you can fuck with them with no consequences. bemildred Jan 2015 #42
The grain from the occupied territories was kept there. Igel Jan 2015 #34
Right, that's what I assumed. bemildred Jan 2015 #36
This is so sad, and had Russia minded its own business, could have been avoided. n/t Tarheel_Dem Jan 2015 #26
While I agree that everybody should mind their own business, bemildred Jan 2015 #27
You sound like a mafioso when you talk like that. nilesobek Jan 2015 #38
Well, we won't discuss what "you sound like", but I sure wish I could. Tarheel_Dem Jan 2015 #40
So, according to your crudely coded message, nilesobek Jan 2015 #41
 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
3. whaaa?
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 05:20 PM
Jan 2015

Russia's war on its neighbor and the resulting human suffering and humanitarian crisis is not Chevron's fault

I'm 100% against fracking but your post is a weird conclusion jump

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
6. yes Chevron wanted to frack Ukraine. But that has nothing to do with Putin's invasion
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:00 PM
Jan 2015

the article clearly says that Chevron was working with the Ukraine both before and after the events started in Ukraine.

And that article is pretty old. Latest news is Chevron have canceled plans in Ukraine: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/76b41d9c-847e-11e4-ba4f-00144feabdc0.html

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
37. Putin sold russian gas to Ukraine. He invaded partly because Ukraine wanted to start producing their
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 07:54 PM
Jan 2015

own domestic gas in partnership with Chevron.

Ukraine wanted to increase their agriculture trade with the EU, instead of always locked in with grain/agriculture to Russia in exchange for Russia's gas and oil.

yes, chevron canceled, they don't want to work in a warzone.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
2. a reminder that Putin's aggression has horrible human consequences
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 04:58 PM
Jan 2015

it's not just politics--it's a tragedy of epic proportions

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
4. I guess the people in Luhansk and Donetsk
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 05:30 PM
Jan 2015

need to appeal to Moscow, since Putin is their new landlord now...

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
8. Merkel: working on possible meeting on Ukraine in Kazakhstan
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:07 PM
Jan 2015

BERLIN (AP) -- Major powers trying to resolve the conflict in Ukraine are working to set up a possible meeting in Kazakhstan, but it remains unclear whether it will happen and it won't resolve the crisis overnight if it does, Germany's leader said Thursday.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said in late December that he planned to meet Jan. 15 in Astana, the Kazakh capital, with Chancellor Angela Merkel and the Russian and French presidents. However, German and other officials haven't confirmed the plan.

The four countries' foreign ministers are working on a "possible meeting in Astana" but more talks are needed over the coming days before it is clear whether it can go ahead, Merkel said after meeting Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk.

Merkel, who will receive Kazakh President Nursultan Nazarbayev on Friday, didn't specify a date for the meeting. Diplomatic efforts focus on trying to implement in full a much-violated peace deal that was drawn up in Minsk in September - and Merkel insisted that every point of that agreement must be fulfilled.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_GERMANY_UKRAINE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-01-08-06-18-37

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
18. EU leaders raise hopes of Putin breakthrough over Ukraine
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:18 PM
Jan 2015

EU leaders have talked up the prospects of a breakthrough with President Vladimir Putin over Ukraine amid a divisive debate over whether to ease or lift European sanctions on Russia.

In a flurry of diplomatic activity German and Ukrainian leaders met in Berlin and the Latvian foreign minister headed to Kiev and Moscow. Momentum gathered behind a proposed summit in Kazakhstan next week between the Russian, Ukrainian and French presidents and the German chancellor.

Speaking in Riga, where this week Latvia assumed the six-month rotating EU presidency, Federica Mogherini, the EU’s foreign policy coordinator, spoke of “limited but positive” signals from the Russians in recent weeks over the conflict in eastern Ukraine and raised the possibility of lifting EU sanctions “partially or fully”. “The situation on the ground is slightly better than some months ago,” she said. “ There seems to be a different Russian attitude … I hope this is part of a new time, a new era.”

Putin’s actions on Ukraine have triggered the worst post-communist crisis in relations between Russia and the west over the past year. But, as well as muting his hardline policies on Ukraine recently, Putin was proving more cooperative on other sore points such as Syria and nuclear issues, she said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/08/eu-leaders-russia-putin-breakthrough-ukraine

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
19. Proposed Russia-Ukraine meeting increasingly likely to lead to substantive peace negotiations
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:19 PM
Jan 2015

Russia, Ukraine, Germany, and France will hold talks in Astana, Kazakhstan, on 15 January about the situation in eastern Ukraine.

Although the conference has not been confirmed, Kazakhstan president Nursultan Nazarbeyev is due to meet German chancellor Angela Merkel on 9 January to discuss it. Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko, Russian president Vladimir Putin, French President Francois Hollande, and Merkel are due to attend the talks. Ukrainian foreign ministry spokesman Yevhen Perebiynis said on 6 January the preliminary meeting between Nazarbeyev and Merkel "could produce concrete results" and diplomats were working on a "draft document" for the leaders to sign.

http://www.janes.com/article/47743/proposed-russia-ukraine-meeting-increasingly-likely-to-lead-to-substantive-peace-negotiations

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
9. Russia's 11th Humanitarian Convoy Delivers Aid to Luhansk
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:09 PM
Jan 2015

MOSCOW, January 8 (Sputnik) – Russian trucks from the 11th convoy carrying humanitarian aid for conflict-torn eastern Ukraine, have arrived in the city of Luhansk, the Russian Emergencies Ministry said Thursday.

"Over 60 vehicles have arrived in Luhansk, delivering over 700 tonnes [nearly 800 tons] of humanitarian aid," deputy head of the crisis management center with the Russian Emergencies Ministry Oleg Voronov told the press.

Despite harsh weather conditions, with temperatures reaching 27 degrees Celsius below zero (-16 F), all the vehicles successfully reached their destination, the ministry said. The vehicles delivered food, medication, essentials and Orthodox Christmas presents for children.

After being unloaded, the trucks will head back to Russia's southern region of Rostov.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150108/1016664155.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
10. Ukraine blames Russia for German hack
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:10 PM
Jan 2015

A pro-Russian group has already claimed responsibility but this is the first suggestion that it was backed by the Russian government.

Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk made his remarks ahead of a meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

But one expert questioned what real evidence there was for the claims.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30724168

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
20. German Chancellor Merkel talks Russian sanctions with Ukrainian PM
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:20 PM
Jan 2015

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has claimed that the EU sanctions placed on Russia over its intervention in Ukraine can only be dissolved if there is a full implementation of the Minsk agreement which was signed by pro-Russian and Kiev rebels last September.
In a conversation with Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Merkel said: "The other sanctions were introduced in response to the intervention in eastern Ukraine.

"Fulfilling the entire Minsk agreement is the way to bring about a reversal [of sanctions] here. The entire Minsk agreement must be implemented before we can say these sanctions can be lifted," she said.

http://sharecast.com/news/german-chancellor-merkel-talks-russian-sanctions-with-ukrainian-pm/22375987.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
11. With IMF back in Kiev, bankrupt Ukraine seeks West unity
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:12 PM
Jan 2015

Ukraine's prime minister is calling for continued Western unity in pressing Russia to fully implement a much-violated peace deal.

Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Thursday that Russia is "desperately trying" to split European Union countries, "but they're going to fail."

Yatsenyuk is in Berlin to meet Chancellor Angela Merkel, who has been a key figure in trying to broker a diplomatic solution to the crisis in eastern Ukraine.

He said during an appearance at the German Council on Foreign Relations think-tank that the Minsk cease-fire agreement dating back to September is still viable and the most urgent priority is to seal the Russia-Ukraine border.

http://www.neurope.eu/article/imf-back-kiev-bankrupt-ukraine-seeks-west-unity

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
21. EU's Juncker announces new 1.8b euros in Ukraine aid
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:21 PM
Jan 2015

RIGA: The European Union (EU) plans to give Ukraine a further 1.8 billion euros to help prop up an economy hit hard by a protracted conflict with Russian-backed rebels, European Commission head Jean-Claude Juncker said on Thursday (Jan 8).

The 1.8 billion euros (US$2.1 billion, S$2.8 billion) in medium-term loans will help Ukraine meet the "critical challenges" it faces and support the political and economic reforms the European Union believes are crucial to its future, said the Commission.

"The Commission has decided to extend its financial assistance" to Ukraine with "an additional sum of 1.8 billion euros", Juncker told reporters in the Latvian capital Riga.

The bloc's 28 members and the European Parliament must still approve the additional loans. Commission members were in the Baltic state to mark Latvia's turn at the helm of the rotating EU presidency, which it assumed on January 1.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/international/eu-s-juncker-announces/1577898.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
24. Ukraine Bonds Gain Most on Record as EU Pledges More Aid
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:37 PM
Jan 2015

Ukraine’s foreign-currency bonds jumped the most on record after the European Union proposed further financial aid, tempering concern the country may fail to repay its debts.

The nation’s dollar-denominated bond maturing July 2017 rose 7.1 cents to 65.51 cents on the dollar by 4:06 p.m. in Kiev, the biggest daily gain since the note was sold in July 2012. The note fell to 57.56 cents on Jan. 6 amid speculation a deepening recession, armed conflict and a mounting debt burden will trigger a default.

The EU’s executive arm, the European Commission, proposed a loan of as much as 1.8 billion euros ($2.1 billion) to help the Ukraine overcome the “critical challenges” resulting from a weak balance of payments and its budget deficit, according to a statement on its website. Restructuring of the country’s foreign-currency debt is not expected, Finance Minister Natalie Jaresko said in an interview in Berlin yesterday.

“Ukraine is strategically and politically too important, so more support could be expected,” Regis Chatellier, a London-based emerging-market credit strategist at Societe Generale SA, said by e-mail today. More aid will be needed as the nation’s economy has plunged into a sharp recession and the country is effectively at war in its eastern regions, he said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-08/ukraine-bonds-gain-most-on-record-as-eu-pledges-more-aid.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
12. Soros urges Europe to throw Ukraine $50 billion lifeline
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:12 PM
Jan 2015

George Soros has called on Europe to stump up $50 billion in aid to support Ukraine as its economy withers in the wake of ongoing conflict with Russia.

In an essay published in the New York Review of Books on Thursday, Soros said the financial package is needed to help the Ukrainian government embark on radical economic reforms.

The billionaire investor and philanthropist said while he supports the continuation of sanctions against Russia, the focus must be shifted from punishing Russia to helping Ukraine.

"Europe needs to wake up and recognize that it is under attack from Russia," wrote Soros. "Assisting Ukraine should also be considered as a defense expenditure by the EU countries."

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/08/news/soros-ukraine-europe-50-billion/index.html?section=money_news_international&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fmoney_news_international+%28International+News%29

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
13. Europe will print money, it's just a matter of time
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:13 PM
Jan 2015

It's crunch time again for Mario Draghi.

The president of the European Central Bank, whose 2012 pledge to save the euro helped Europe crawl out of its debt crisis, is being called upon to perform another rescue mission.

With prices falling for the first time since the Great Recession, investors are now betting heavily that the ECB will start printing money to buy government bonds on a huge scale.

The Fed-style program of quantitative easing (QE) would be aimed at preventing a deflationary spiral that could spark a new crisis.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/07/investing/europe-deflation-ecb/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
14. Ukrainian envoy to Ankara: Turkey can be an energy hub without Russia
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:14 PM
Jan 2015

The ongoing conflict in eastern Ukraine continues to maintain its severity, mainly in terms of the worsening humanitarian situation. According to U.N. figures from December 26, 2014, the number of those who have been affected by the crisis reportedly reached 5.2 million, including 2 million children.

While the clashes between Ukrainian military forces and pro-Russian rebels continue, the tightened sanctions from the EU and U.S. have precipitated the Russian economy into a serious crisis. In efforts to revitalize its economy, President Vladimir Putin said that Russia will increase energy supplies to Turkey via the Blue Stream pipeline.

In an exclusive interview with Daily Sabah, Sergiy Korsunsky, the Ukrainian ambassador to Ankara said that although Ukraine understands the pragmatic relationship between Turkey and Russia regarding energy supplies, he advised Turkey not to be lured into a trap by Russia through energy talks. While Turkey's stance on the annexation of Crimea stands firm and Turkey is devoting efforts to ensure the safety of Crimean Tatars, Korsunsky said: "Russia will provide all possible offers in exchange for Turkey to recognize the annexation of Crimea."

Although supply and demand for energy is currently even more crucial, Turkey continues to repeat its support for the Crimea and Crimean Tatars. During the interview, the ambassador also said that if Turkey were to change its attitude toward the annexation of Crimea, it would be more difficult for Crimean Tatars to withstand Russia.

http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2015/01/08/ukrainian-envoy-to-ankara-turkey-can-be-an-energy-hub-without-russia

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
15. Ukraine ministry, traders to meet on grain exports next week
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:15 PM
Jan 2015

KIEV: Ukraine's agriculture ministry will meet major traders next week regarding exports and local markets after Russia's decision to curb its grain exports, traders and government sources said on Thursday.

"The meeting is scheduled for January 13. We want to know their (the traders') plans," a government official, who declined to be identified, told Reuters.

Russia has introduced grain exports duties of at least 35 euros per tonne set to start from Feb. 1 to stabilise domestic prices.

In December, Moscow imposed informal export controls in a bid to cool down domestic prices.

http://www.brecorder.com/world/europe/215922.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
16. NATO Head Says Russia Anti-Terror Cooperation Important
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:16 PM
Jan 2015

Cooperation between NATO and Russia in fighting terrorism would be important even amid the conflict over Ukraine, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said in the wake of the shootings at a satirical magazine in Paris.

“That’s the reason why we still strive for a more cooperative and constructive relationship with Russia,” Stoltenberg said today in the Bavarian town of Kreuth. “We think it is important that Russia, which is our biggest neighbor in Europe, and NATO are able to work together on important issues like, for instance, fighting terror.” NATO and Russia “have for many years worked together” on the issue, he said.

The killings yesterday at the Charlie Hebdo newsroom in the French capital were an “attack on the free press, on free opinion and on our open societies,” Stoltenberg told reporters before giving a closed-door briefing to members of the Christian Social Union party, which is part of German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s governing coalition.

Russia’s annexation of Crimea in March and its support for a separatist rebellion in eastern Ukraine led the North Atlantic Treaty Organization to reinforce its defenses in eastern Europe, bringing back memories of the Cold War.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-08/nato-cites-russia-as-anti-terror-ally-after-paris-attack.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
17. Freed Ukrainian Journalist Says Separatists 'Being Trained For An Offensive'
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:17 PM
Jan 2015

On December 26, the Ukrainian journalist was released without a scratch after spending almost five months at the hands of pro-Russian separatists controlling large swaths of eastern Ukraine.

He was freed as part of the biggest prisoner swap between Kyiv and the rebels since the conflict erupted in April.

Cheremskyy, who is based in Kharkiv, was abducted in mid-August along with two other Ukrainian journalists and a rights activist, Valeriy Makeyev.

The group had crossed into rebel-held territory to cover the planned release of two Ukrainian hostages.

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-journalist-cheremskiy-separatists/26779805.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
25. News Analysis: Bombing Campaign Opens New Front In Battle For Ukraine
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:38 PM
Jan 2015

Hardly a day goes by in Ukraine these days without headlines about some terrorist incident or about the country's security forces breaking up a would-be plot or capturing a cache of weapons or explosives.

In recent weeks there have been dozens of small bombings across the country, with the epicenters being Kharkiv, Odesa, Mariupol, and Kyiv. There were at least six bombings in Odesa in December alone.

Most of the attacks have targeted the offices of pro-Kyiv organizations during nighttime hours, while a few have targeted infrastructure, the security forces, or Ukrainian politicians.

In the worst incident, 11 people were injured on November 9 when a bomb went off in a bar in downtown Kharkiv.

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-bombing-campaign-odesa-kharkiv-mariupol-kyiv/26783218.html

Igel

(35,317 posts)
29. I love irony.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 07:28 PM
Jan 2015

Russia's an important anti-terrorism ally.

Yet its puppies are bombing civilian targets in what the DNR and LNR have described as one of the kinds of warfares they want: a "partisan" warfare that takes out rail lines (as near Mariupol a week or two ago) or pro-"junta" organizations.

Perhaps if we can get Putin to promise to really insist that he's not supporting the DNR and LNR the Nobel Peace Prize committee will award him his very own prize in an act of "diplomatic language".

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
23. hard for the people in the conflict zones. missed major grain planting seasons, not much to export.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:29 PM
Jan 2015

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
28. Well, if you read post #15, it says Ukraine has already exported 80% of the available wheat crop.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:56 PM
Jan 2015

I was wondering about that myself, since I had read there were problems raising capital for planting, but they seem to have a surplus, or think they do.

Russia, meanwhile, has curtailed if not ended sales overseas, which is interesting and likely to cause food riots elsewhere, like Egypt, if they cannot find other sources.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
30. millions of people fled the war areas,was mostly farmlands other then the people who fled crimea
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 07:34 PM
Jan 2015

Putins taking their grain, probably in those truck convoys he keeps sending in and driving back to Russia.
Plus Putins charges an export 'tax' on grain he steals from them. They used to sell to other countries not just Russia.

Look at a map of the eastern areas its mostly farmlands with very small communities/ grain storage silos.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
31. Yeah, I know, but Ukraine is still selling it.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 07:39 PM
Jan 2015

One presumes it was grown outside the conflict zone. They've been bickering a lot over coal too, needed for power plants.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
35. Hey, if you are going to be enemies, that's what enemies do.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 07:46 PM
Jan 2015

They try to fuck each other. What did you think he would do? What would we do?

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
39. Its Russia's problem that they depend so much on domestic gas/crude to trade for everything else.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 08:03 PM
Jan 2015

On top of that Russia's 'leadership' was so corrupt and skimmed the profits. Now at least their banks are sanctioned and Russia's 1% are stuck in the homeland.

I think more then half of Russia's economy depends on domestic gas/crude sales.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
42. That still doesn't mean you can fuck with them with no consequences.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 08:52 PM
Jan 2015

We used to know that. The Russians are famous for it.

Igel

(35,317 posts)
34. The grain from the occupied territories was kept there.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 07:45 PM
Jan 2015

Export was disallowed. Some probably was snuck out. It's a question as to what happened to the grain there. Some was torched in the field, as was some grain in non-DNR-held areas. Reports are that some's just spoiled, but I take those reports with a bit of suspicion. "The enemy is always a bunch of murdering misfits" is the view I assumed is expressed too routinely in the Ukr media.

The unoccupied territories are occupied with their usual agricultural pursuits.

The occupied areas have a shortage of all kinds of stuff. Seed, fuel, fertilizer, equipment, electricity, farmers. The occasional minefield that was laid by the DNR and LNR (Ukraine started with landmines late in the game, but now they're doing it) is a bit of a bother, too, with some farmers having experienced inopportune "boom times", so to speak. Still, a lot of the "humanitarian convoys" that aren't reported are fuel trucks, so perhaps that's a good thing. Or perhaps they're mostly military resupply. Hard to know.

Most MSM reporting is third-hand: They pick up Russian and Ukr press releases or have stringers of uncertain status on the ground. Even a lot of official Red Cross and OSCE statements are omitted if they don't abide by editorial imperatives.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
36. Right, that's what I assumed.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 07:51 PM
Jan 2015

I am well aware of the defects in MSM attempts to keep us informed. I have developed the habit of requiring multiple stories from diverse sources before I give credence to much of anything. I consider most stories I post to be more about what people are saying that any representation of the truth. That attitude serves me well.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
27. While I agree that everybody should mind their own business,
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:52 PM
Jan 2015

that seems a most unlikely outcome in Ukraine at this point.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
38. You sound like a mafioso when you talk like that.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 08:02 PM
Jan 2015

"Minded its own business," "could have been avoided."
You aren't the one who has to live as a refuge. Very cavalier of you Tarheel_Dem. Its time to bow down to the Nazis in Kiev because if they don't, it, "could have been avoided."

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
41. So, according to your crudely coded message,
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 08:12 PM
Jan 2015

I sound like something unspeakable for defending refugees. Keep diggin' man, the answer is down there somewhere.

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