Deadly attack on office of French magazine Charlie Hebdo
Source: BBC
At least two gunmen have attacked the Paris office of French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, killing a number of people, French media report.
Witnesses spoke of sustained gunfire at the office as the attackers opened fire with Kalashnikov assault rifles.
The satirical weekly has courted controversy in the past with its depiction of news and current affairs.
Its latest tweet was a cartoon of the Islamic State militant group leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883
nitpicker
(7,153 posts)Says 1 dead, 3 hurt.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)Extremist organized religion makes me want to vomit
uhnope
(6,419 posts)Bosonic
(3,746 posts)https://twitter.com/AFP/status/552790770005331969
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/552788752532525057
ellenrr
(3,864 posts)journalist Douglas Murray tells the BBC. "I think that a lot about our future freedom of speech depends on whether or not people think that Charlie Hebdo brought this on itself or realise that the people who carried out this attack are solely to blame and must be the subject of vilification from everybody, from all faiths in all of our societies."
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)this on himself don't deserve to live in a free country. The concept that there is no right not to be offended is obviously too difficult for some and I have zero sympathy for them. I hope they catch them and they spend the rest of their miserable lives locked up like the animals they are.
ellenrr
(3,864 posts)and have a slow unpleasant death.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)when you're talking about outlaws? Because otherwise you're making it sound like you're okay with some murderers.
Response to leftynyc (Reply #44)
Name removed Message auto-removed
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)And for some odd reason, the title of this Parisian weekly is "Charlie".
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I realized it later when I did some digging about this very brave publication and meant to change the post to reflect that but got busy. My heart aches for those brave souls killed today.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)In November 1970, the former French president Charles de Gaulle died in his home village of Colombey-les-Deux-Églises, eight days after a disaster in a nightclub, the Club Cinq-Sept fire caused the death of 146 people. The magazine released a cover spoofing the popular press's coverage of this disaster, headlined "Tragic Ball at Colombey, one dead."[6] As a result, the journal was once more banned, this time by the Minister of the Interior.
In order to sidestep the ban, the team decided to change its title, and used Charlie Hebdo.[1] The new name was derived from a monthly comics magazine called Charlie Mensuel (Charlie Monthly), which had been started by Bernier and Delfeil de Ton in 1968. Charlie took its name from Charlie Brown, the lead character of Peanuts one of the comics originally published in Charlie Mensuel and was also an inside joke about Charles de Gaulle.[7] In December 1981, publication ceased.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo#1969.E2.80.931981
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)France is in free-fall. You cant look away.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)philosslayer
(3,076 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)for you if he/she wasn't given so much ammunition.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I mean if you're going to dig a hole, might as well have the proper tools
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)The jihadists are doing all the digging for me. Isn't that sweet of them?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)You're adorable when you're frustrated from losing an argument. The swearing at me is particularly convincing in a discussion. Well done.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I was under the impression that even a self-defined argument is still predicated on an objective and supportable premise rather than a simplistic editorial.
(insert rationalization below for additional self-validation...)
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)did me absolutely no good in trying to figure out what you're saying. I think you're under the impression I need some kind of validation from anonymous posters on the internet. Sorry, I'm not that insecure in my convictions.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)you do seem rather happy at having received your new delivery of ammunition, though. I'll leave you to enjoy it.
Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #194)
Post removed
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)The "no go" areas? They dont exist? Muslims rioting over nonsense? None of that is happening?
Response to 7962 (Reply #31)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #122)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Behind the Aegis
(53,976 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)I just dont understand the apparent obsession some have with "the Jews". I'm trying to understand why I should feel threatened by Jews? I've never been able to figure it out.
7962
(11,841 posts)Try the good 'ol Google and read the stories. Watch the videos. Guess they're all just fluff from Glen Beck or something, right?
Today was just an anomaly, right? Just like the cars running over pedestrians recently?
Keep on whistling past the graveyard
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Over on Stormfront, your argument is regularly made about black people - "google the stories! Watch the videos! Guess they're all make-believe from David Duke or something, huh?"
This is known as cherry-picking. You start with a premise - in your case,that Muslims are inherently awful people - and then demand your critics go watch videos about Muslims who happen to be awful people. So long as your evidence is constrained to those examples, you imagine you have an argument. of course this relies on ignoring the overwhelmingly vast number of Muslims who are in no way represented by your 'evidence," and whose existence washes away your shit argument in a tidal wave of counter-evidence.
But you will persist in ignoring them, except as a target for your hate, becuase you're so infested in that hate that you can't fathom living without it.
7962
(11,841 posts)Nobody reads stormfront.
I guess restricting my opinion to the thousands of examples in just the past couple yrs is just cherry picking. Save all your posts just in case you run into any of them, you can wave them around to show them how tolerant you are!
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)on the "no-go" zones. Only a very few fringe nut bags have jumped on that band wagon & the person who first introduced the moronic idea recanted it almost immediately. Way to go on being on the wrong side of that argument by a mile.
7962
(11,841 posts)I'm not going to back off whats been reported for YEARS simply because some mayor all of a sudden doesnt like the sunshine. Although I've never heard of it with regard to English cities.
Here's a few articles for you: I've excerpted the parts mentioning the "no go" zones
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-11-06-paris-gangs_x.htm
"Some officials suspect the unrest that reached into Paris proper early Sunday has in part been instigated by gangs hoping to turn their neighborhoods into no-go zones for police so drug trafficking and racketeering can thrive."
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9892432/ns/technology_and_science-clicked/t/tone-no-go-zones/#.VNAclWTF-Gu
"The spreading nature of the riots has many concerned. News to me is all the discussion of Europe's "no go" zones."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/12/international/europe/12suburb.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&"Branded by France's police intelligence agency as one of the country's 150 "no go zones," where police officers should enter only with major reinforcements, La Courneuve was caught up in the violence in which rioters torched cars, trashed businesses and ambushed the police."
Notice the references above are from 2005 & 2006. This is nothing new & one is even from the NY Times. I dont know why Fox apologized for simply saying whats been in the news for 10 years. 150 no go zones? Is it all made up?? I doubt it
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)France right now were on this thread telling you that you were wrong about their home but you're going to stick with your original bullshit anyways, that's impressive. The fact that you can't understand why fox apologized in the first place pretty much sums it all up. Carry on in your own special little bubble.
7962
(11,841 posts)I guess now they're called "special districts' or some other cute name. Who cares; walks like a duck....
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)If they defend fox news well....
7962
(11,841 posts)It is what it is. Why has no one disputed their story? What were they talking about when they specify 150 no go zones?
Maybe newscorp's 7% owner made a call to get that 'apology". Supposedly its happened before
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)the only one's referencing this NYT article from 2002 that you keep referring to which is actually titled separate but equal. You would benefit from reading the article instead of just assuming that Pam Gellar actually has your best interests at heart. I've linked to it so you may actually read the article instead of assuming your rightwing rags are telling you the truth as they all started to pull shit out of their ass to defend fox just as you have attempted to do.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/27/opinion/27iht-edignatius_ed3__0.html
7962
(11,841 posts)All of the articles I referenced came from mainstream sources. And i had to google "pam gellar". never heard of her.
I guess you'd also be critical of Pres Clinton's recent statements on the hypocrisy of Muslim immigrants?
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)unfounded, unsubstantiated claims of no-go zones in France & Britain? See this is called moving the goal posts. Not only did you move them, you tried to switch out your punter for a batter. Admit it, there are no no-go zones. It's ok, fox did it, you can too.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Great company.
How about the fucking obvious fact that both British and French leaders have shot down that bullshit? That the French and British, the people who actually know what goes on in their countries have had a great time taking the piss out of Faux for the dishonest bullshit they were peddling?
And you think Fox didn't need to apologise? Uh-huh...
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)They actually said that they are confused as to why fox apologized. If fox news has apologized that should tell you something, those bastards will say anything & usually do without consequence.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)It was hilarious...
And there's this article about those claims
Why the Muslim 'No-Go-Zone' Myth Won't Die
There's no evidence of extremist takeover of areas in Europe or the United States. So why do the claims continue?
Have you heard about the areas of Europe, or perhaps even of the United States, that are run by jihadists and which non-Muslims can't even enter?
Don't get too worried if you haven't: They don't exist. Or maybe you have, if you watch Fox News or read snippets of Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal's speech about Islamic extremism. While politics is rife with falsehoods, myths, and baseless rumors, it's often tough to see exactly where a claim comes from, and how it reaches a wider audienceincluding, for example, a Republican governor with apparent presidential aspirations and a reputation as a sober policy wonk. Here, however, it's possible to follow forensic traces and see how some small elements of truth metastasized into an outlandish claim.
<snip>
But where did the claim come from in the first place? Like many political myths, there's a partial basis in fact that has become exaggerated into a hyperbolic and, in this case, inflammatory and dangerous claim.
<snip>
The third factor is what are known as "Zones Urbaines Sensibles," or "sensitive urban zones," in France. These areas are defined by their socioeconomic statusthey're characterized by high unemployment, high rates of public housing, and low educational attainment. As it happens, many of these areas are populated largely by poor immigrants from the Muslim world, creating a neat but misleading correlation. Some of the "no-go" coverage has suggested that police and other emergency services dare not go into these areas. The United States is sadly not immune to dangerous city areas where emergency-service providers feel unsafe, so in that way this is a universal phenomenon. But as BusinessWeek notes, it's not the case that the government has written these zones off; in fact, they've been designated for further attention and work on urban renewal.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/01/paris-mayor-to-sue-fox-over-no-go-zone-comments/384656/
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Up thread 7962 decided to double down with his no-go zones talking points by pulling out citations that have been cited by RW rags & nutjobs like Pam Gellar to defend fox. It really has been quite eye opening.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)Britain had a policy of giving asylum to muslim fundies and letting them stir up trouble overseas.
Of course both France and Britain led the way in toppling Gadaffi which took the lid off North Africa and allowed a weapons and fighter pipeline to spread right over to Syria.
They then supported the Syrian rebels which morphed into ISIS, which we then had to bomb. Which then promised retaliation.
Of course what's needed now is to lock down Europe in a police state and send more troops to the Middle East in a permanent war.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)alfredo
(60,075 posts)how the Muslims, and south Asian immigrants are treated in England. This tale could be extended to France and Germany.
Let's say that they are treated as the Republicans want Mexicans and Muslims to be treated.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Look at the almost universal condemnation of the protestors in Germany....
Algeria went through a similar situation where the Islamist won an election and them proceeded to dismantle the very democratic state that brought me to power. Same dynamic with morsi in Egypt.
You cannot compromise with those fueled by Saudi Wahhabism. Their brand of Islam is cancer carefully designed to enslave the people for the royal family using a higher power as justification.
We've actually been at war with the wrong people all these years.
Release the 28 pages!
muriel_volestrangler
(101,355 posts)"Look at the almost universal condemnation of the protestors in Germany.... "
And? You think people should support anti-Muslim protesters? It's ridiculous to claim Germany is being 'Islamified', which is what those protests claim.
"Algeria went through a similar situation where the Islamist won an election and them proceeded to dismantle the very democratic state that brought me to power."
When did an elected Islamist dismantle a democratic state in Algeria?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14118856
An Islamist party was about to win the parliamentary elections, but at the start of 1992 the military basically took over, stopped the elections, and has not held totally open and free elections since.
The situation in Egypt is nothing like France, Germany or other European countries. It never had a full democracy. Morsi is no more pro-democracy (probably less so) than the Islamic parties he led the coup aginst.
alp227
(32,047 posts)mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)I don't think it was the French Library Association.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Years ago the republished Mohamed caricatures from Danish comic author.
JustAnotherGen
(31,869 posts)And this is terribly sad. And I wonder about retaliation on those who don't agree with the extremists . . .
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)It is a novel about the Islamification of France. Very controversial.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Am I mixing up film with literature?
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)amandabeech
(9,893 posts)OnePercentDem
(79 posts)For people to die just because someone printed a cartoon just shows how fucking ignorant these people are.
Bosonic
(3,746 posts)https://twitter.com/AFP/status/552793343693185024
Apparently the murderous scumbags are still on the loose.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Bosonic
(3,746 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)posting the alert....commenting on comment boards, unable to communicate tone, is a problem.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,355 posts)So the motive was pretty clear.
nitpicker
(7,153 posts)sammy750
(165 posts)10 killed and the police could not prevent it? They need to upgrade and update their security in France. The people should be concerned about their security. Of course the magazine has been creating this situation.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,869 posts)Who has not been in the country recently - or perhaps ever.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Well done. Someone needed to say that.
JustAnotherGen
(31,869 posts)It's pretty secure there.
I feel more secure boarding a flight Orly than I do Newark.
And the flick are very much a presence not only in major cities - but the smallest of towns.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Not the murderous scum that has a problem with people who don't agree with them?
ellenrr
(3,864 posts)the only people who created the situation are the bastards with the Kalashnikovs.
BooScout
(10,406 posts)...like other than American claptrap....then you might understand that the attackers apparently attacked with trained military precision. It was an assassination.....very well planned and trained for. Of course American news is making it all about America as usual.
And blaming the newspaper? What the hell ever happened to freedom of speech?
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Grouped shots, short bursts, etc, all show some training of some sort.
whathehell
(29,086 posts)Last edited Wed Jan 7, 2015, 01:00 PM - Edit history (1)
people here are watching?
BooScout
(10,406 posts)I said it was 'claptrap' and I stand by my description. While watching CNN as this was breaking they jumped all over the American angle rather than actually reporting about what was occurring. They do it all the time as do the other American News channels and programs. The 'real' news I was also watching was the BBC, SKY News and other Euro news channels. They actually reported about what was happening in Paris....rather than what this means regarding the next terrorist attack in the States. Not everything in the world is always about America.
riversedge
(70,285 posts)have a new word in my vocabulary.
whathehell
(29,086 posts)so we could all watch your supposedly superior news.
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)No supposedly about it
whathehell
(29,086 posts)but unless your smug sense of superiority is matched by a financial status
that would allow you to fly us all out to the UK, what possible point -- beyond
the joy of snobbery, of course -- is there in scolding people for watching news that's available to them in their own country?
BooScout
(10,406 posts)Go for baseless accusations. Btw, if you don't understand how the BBC has better reporting than ANY American News agency then I can't help you.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I imagine we all of us like to pretend our "stuff" is better than "their "stuff." One of the many failings of the human condition as it now stands.
whathehell
(29,086 posts)affect a superior attitude and make.a baseless accusation of your own, lol
By the way, I was exposed to the BBC when you were still soiling your nappies.
BooScout
(10,406 posts)....either stream the BBC or read it on line to get an accurate account of the News rather than a slanted version of how something in another country may or may not affect you.
whathehell
(29,086 posts)seems to have done, lol.
Coventina
(27,169 posts)Please explain.
ananda
(28,874 posts)... a common theme among those blaming the raped for their rapes.
** sarcastic emoticon here for the irony impaired **
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(24,654 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)" Of course the magazine has been creating this situation..."
No more and no less than a female wearing a tight dress created her own rape. Though I imagine many half-wits and idiots would allege that, also.
musicblind
(4,484 posts)The French are doing the best they can. They were on the scene quickly and EMTs arrived. It is just a tragedy all the way around. I do not think the French Government is at all to blame.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)but I'm sure there are some excuses and understandings we will hear about.
sarcasm
get the red out
(13,468 posts)Two in this case; clean up the mess, feel bad they didn't get proper mental health care, apologize to anyone, anywhere, who is insulted by anything. The best solution would be to end the free press in the Western world, because it is all the fault of the west and our evil, disrespectful ways. Mars has little gravity and no atmosphere because of freedom of the press in the evil, western world.
This needs to leave the news now before more stupid people get the wrong ideas.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)right here on this thread we have a poster who thinks the magazine is to blame.
get the red out
(13,468 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)How incredibly sad you needed it.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)nitpicker
(7,153 posts)Bosonic
(3,746 posts)Eleven dead in shooting at Paris offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo live updates
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/jan/07/shooting-paris-satirical-magazine-charlie-hebdo
Bosonic
(3,746 posts)CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)brooklynite
(94,713 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Whether you officially declare war or not doesnt change the fact that it IS a war when soldiers are shooting at other soldiers on a continuing basis
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)i was under that simplistic same impression too... until 2002.
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)The blurring of them is what got us into Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq.
Renew Deal
(81,870 posts)mylye2222
(2,992 posts)uhnope
(6,419 posts)ellenrr
(3,864 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Second thing out of his mouth. I wonder if he's read the Koran at all and the violence it calls for against anyone who doesnt follow??
And dont start with how the bible is just as bad. We see the odd nutjob christian here and there, but no continuing organized threat from chrisitans. And we see cartoons of jesus ALL the time and nobody gets beheaded.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)The same "hiding under my bed" BS. "Are you afraid they're coming here?" Then we had Boston. We had Hassan. We had a guy with a hatchet attack cops. We had a guy behead people in his workplace. We've had several other "jihadi" killers randomly killing people on the street. Google the stories. Theres plenty and they keep pushing for more. Keep laughing if it makes you feel superior.
Pointing out that there are other people who kill is just like when I would tell my mom "everybodys doing it". Its a weak argument
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)"Everybody's doing it!" is an excuse. An attempt to say "this is okay because someone else is doing it!" - that's not the argument being made here.
Rather, the argument being made is that there's no particular reason to "go after" Muslims, as you seem to wish. Yes, there have been attacks and murders by Muslim assholes. There have been far more committed by Christian, however.
This doesn't make either okay, but it does take the wind out of your anti-Muslim fearmongering.
7962
(11,841 posts)More recently than 4-500 years ago too. And where are the Christian leaders issuing declarations for the deaths of millions of others? The beheadings of non-christian journalists?
Man the willingness to not see whats going on in this world is sad. Even the Chinese are dealing with it.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Maybe start with "abortion clinic bombings" or "Tripura" or "Russia" or maybe "Lord's Resistance Army" or the like.
Interestingly, when I look at the people responsible for these acts, I blame them, not their co-religionists. Too bad you can't figure that one out.
7962
(11,841 posts)Unless you're pointing out the millions of christians killed by the Russians.
The Islamists are only going to get worse. They want to slit your throat too, you know.
So the daily presence of protesters outside abortion clinics has nothing to do with a certain subset of Christians, and their presence as a common denominator in every instance of violence against abortion providers (i.e. non-believers) is a coincidence and not a "continuing organized threat"? Or that Dominionists are a myth? I guess the liberal-controlled media has been deceiving me. Thank you for setting me straight. No! I mean "thank you for correcting my misperception". "Setting me straight" might have implied that I had previously been gay and I would not want to fall afoul of the Christians pushing the "kill the gays" legislation. Oh wait, they don't exist either.
The Bible is as bad as the Koran in those respects. We're just lucky to have a government designed by people who did not want any religion to become the arbiter of secular law. The fact that we do not have the abuses of parts of the Muslim sphere is not because fundamentalist Christianity is so sweet and multi-culturally tolerant...
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)It's odd to see people act like the domestic terrorism that has happened in the US for a long time is no big deal. Don't forget the KKK too. They have been busy for a long time with their brand of terrorism too.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)And the actions of two radicals does not taint a population of millions of peace loving people.
LexVegas
(6,091 posts)Response to philosslayer (Reply #53)
Post removed
Xithras
(16,191 posts)Some are benign. Some are malignant. Some move slowly. And some move quickly. Some go back and forth. But they're all dangerous.
Once a religion says, "My religion is right, and yours is wrong", that religion becomes a threat to everyone who doesn't follow it. And if you disagree, I'd challenge you to name an exclusivist religion that HASN'T killed people in the name of some "god".
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)As are all exclusive borders cancers too. Stand on one side of an imaginary red and blue line, one is just and legal. Stand on the other side, one becomes illegal.
I'd challenge anyone to name a national border that hasn't killed people in the name some imaginary red and blue line on a map.
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)religion is a way to separate and divide into us and them. They are the exact opposite of peace.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Who are Anabaptists, and separate themselves. Are you implying they are the opposite of peaceful?
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)No religion is peaceful because the very nature is to divide.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Same applies precisely to national borders-- which also divides by its very nature.
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)Response to Gore1FL (Reply #162)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Response to LanternWaste (Reply #146)
Name removed Message auto-removed
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)with predictable reliability.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Response to nitpicker (Original post)
cosmicone This message was self-deleted by its author.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Speech depicting ideas and opinions should not offend anyone. If you disagree, debate it and tell the world why it is wrong and/or why your feelings are hurt by it without asking for it to be banned and especially without going violent.
Time to drone or daisy-cut a few hundred or more ISIS people including Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. ISIS is a menace and should be dealt with zero tolerance.
I am a lousy artist or I'd have a cartoon of Allah and Mohammad face-palming upon this news myself. How can the almighty, the omnipotent, omniscient Allah or his messenger get hurt by a cartoon?
(I wonder if the ideas expressed herein would offend someone to click the alert button thus proving my point)
Response to cosmicone (Reply #54)
Name removed Message auto-removed
BadtotheboneBob
(413 posts)... 'Betty Bowers' is hate speech. right?
DVDGuy
(53 posts)Everyone has the right to be offended by what is generally considered to be an opinion (eg. I'm sure almost everyone here is offended by Faux News pretty much all of the time). Muslims, just like anyone, should have the right to be offended by anything they like, even if the rest of us don't find the same thing offensive, but nobody has the right to use threats, intimidation and violence to counter what one finds offensive. If they do that, then they've committed acts of terrorism, whether it's IS sympathizers, or politicians, or anti-gay activist. But like you say, there are many ways to express your offence at something and still be on the right side of the law.
But the main problem I have with your post is the "Time to drone or daisy-cut" line ... since these terrorists are most likely homegrown, which suburb of Paris do you think we should "drone or daisy-cut"?
The real threat of IS is not their leadership, soldiers, tanks, RPGs ... or what are considered traditional threats on the battlefield. It isn't even the crazy ideology that they espouse. The threat of IS, and any terror doctrine, comes from people's willingness to believe and support something that is against humanity and human nature, and IS is more of a threat than any other group in the past because it has been so effective in turning people towards their particular brand of crazy.
The real fight is at home, and we should start by finding out just why something that almost all of us considers to be insane, is so seductive to too many.
riversedge
(70,285 posts)Agence France-Presse @AFP · 1h 1 hour ago
#BREAKING Attackers at Paris newspaper shouted 'we have avenged the prophet': police
0 replies 601 retweets 72 favorites
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Moses? Isaiah? Jahaziel the Levite? Michaiah son of Imlah?
The police should start with this list to find out WHICH prophet's followers are responsible.
http://www.jewfaq.org/prophet.htm
B2G
(9,766 posts)OnePercentDem
(79 posts)I think you know the answer to your question, although I doubt you want to accept it.
freebrew
(1,917 posts)wall-streeters did it to avenge their profit. That's it...
makes more sense actually.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Not sure if trolls or actual apologists.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)marshall
(6,665 posts)they are found everywhere.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)This article by a German journalist who traveled through ISIS territory should be heeded by everyone who is concerned about the spread of that ideology. Sorry about the all caps, that's the way his article is typeset.
HERE IS A SUMMARY OF MY 7 STRONGEST IMPRESSIONS OF ISIS:
1.) THE WEST IS DRAMATICALLY UNDERESTIMATING THE THREAT EMANATING FROM ISIS, and ISIS fighters are much more intelligent and dangerous than our politicians realize.
2.) THE INFLUX OF NEW FIGHTERS JOINING ISIS IS GROWING DAILY.
3.) AS FAR AS I CAN TELL FROM 10 DAYS OF OBSERVATION, THE ISLAMIC STATE SEEMS TO FUNCTION AS WELL AS ANY OTHER TOTALITARIAN COUNTRY IN THIS REGION.
4.) ISIS ISN'T JUST AIMING AT CONQUERING THE MIDDLE EAST AND, EVENTUALLY, THE REST OF THE WORLD. RATHER, THEY WANT THE LARGEST RELIGIOUS CLEANSING IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
5.) IN MY OPINION, ISIS IS A 1-PERCENT MOVEMENT WITH THE EFFECT OF A TSUNAMI.
6.) ISIS CANNOT BE DEFEATED WITH BOMBS OR MISSILES.
7.) THERE IS A LOT OF GUESSING ABOUT THE TERRORIST THREAT EMANATING FROM RETURNING ISIS FIGHTERS.
ISIS looks like a serious ideological epidemic, that has already claimed a lot more lives than Ebola ever will.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Ultra right nationalists vs ultra right islamists.
It's blowing my mind right now reading twitter feeds cheering this event.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)I also remember that they have put out a call for followers everywhere to kill someone for the cause. Until I hear differently this is what I will continue to believe.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)The west and it's allies have been arming and training thousands of jihadists in the fight against Assad. Driven by the likes of McCain and other neocon freaks. They appear to be well armed and with some tactical training.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)One of the terrorists said "don't worry, he's not Algerian" after executing a police officer.
No clue beyond that, though. Probably ties to ISIS.
Reports are hundreds if not thousands of western people in the EU have joined ISIS' cause.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Trained in Jordan, patched up in Israel. It's a cynical game.
Cheered on by those wishing the destruction of Libya and other secular Arab states.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Which is racist at its core.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)We've seen what a wonderland they have built in Libya.
Given the choice between a secular dictatorship or batshit crazy, I'd go with secular.
You must be a fan of the Saudis...
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Libya is safer than most Latin American countries but we don't sit around saying Latin American Catholics are murderous and need dictators to contain them.
Actually, one might make that argument, since things were calmer when we installed dictators in those countries!
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)That's probably the last place to get your news. Do they even have foreign correspondents any more. Libya is still in the midst of a civil war. Egypt and Qatar acting as the Air Force for the "legitimate" government.
The Islamist parliament passed sharia and enslaved women. It's a mess and no way better than when Qaddafi was in power. If anything after the genocid of black Libyans, the enslavement of women and the destruction and division of their industries much worse.
The latest incident was the "Air Force" attacking a Greek oil tanker as it picked up oil from rebel held refinery.
http://news.yahoo.com/2-dead-unknown-aircraft-bombs-greek-tanker-libyan-092718995.html
The bombing highlights the chaos that's gripped Libya since its 2011 civil war that deposed and killed dictator Moammar Gadahfi. Libyan officials apologized for the bombing as the Greek Foreign Ministry demanded compensation for the victims' families and punishment for those behind the attack.
Consider watching the MSM boob tube for what it is.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I suppose we should install a junta like we did in Turkey.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Some people are only obsessed with those that give aid to the Palestinians.
They would rather see a failed state than anyone who challenges the status quo.
That's why Saudi, Bahrain, Qatar, Uganda, Morroco and many more get a pass on ruling by decree or abuses of human rights, call it selective poutrage.
The use of radical Islamists to counter foes is well documented from the Taliban to Hamas.
ALways a good read...."Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Brought to use by the MSM. It's a somewhat candid peek at the thought processes.
http://m.
Response to nitpicker (Original post)
Post removed
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Jesus
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Turborama
(22,109 posts)Then went back to finish him off. It was on Al Jazeera English, they didn't show the actual shooting and froze it for a couple of seconds, though.
OnlinePoker
(5,725 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)Shamash
(597 posts)And here I was thinking that something like this would be impossible in a country where civilian ownership of such weapons was illegal. Who would have thought that people conspiring to commit murder would be so depraved as to violate the law? Besides, France is not a "gun culture", so the premise of your subject line does not even apply.
Seriously, I think this event was exceptional enough that it is outside the bounds of normal control measures, much like legal restrictions on explosives did not stop the Unabomber or the first World Trade Center attack, nor did restrictions on what you can take onto an airplane stop the 9/11 hijackers, nor did chemical weapons laws stop Aum Shinrikyo from releasing nerve gas in a Tokyo subway. Crazy, dedicated people with an intent to kill generally find a way to do so. Whether or not a "good guy with a gun" could have done anything about the "bad guy with a gun" is exactly as valid a question to ask as whether or not the police (aka "good guys with guns" could have done anything about it.
polly7
(20,582 posts)iandhr
(6,852 posts)This Onion post from a few years back tells you all you need to know about this.
WASHINGTONFollowing the publication of the image above, in which the most cherished figures from multiple religious faiths were depicted engaging in a lascivious sex act of considerable depravity, no one was murdered, beaten, or had their lives threatened, sources reported Thursday. The image of the Hebrew prophet Moses high-fiving Jesus Christ as both are having their erect penises vigorously masturbated by Ganesha, all while the Hindu deity anally penetrates Buddha with his fist, reportedly went online at 6:45 p.m. EDT, after which not a single bomb threat was made against the organization responsible, nor did the person who created the cartoon go home fearing for his life in any way. Though some members of the Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist faiths were reportedly offended by the image, sources confirmed that upon seeing it, they simply shook their heads, rolled their eyes, and continued on with their day
http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/
reorg
(3,317 posts)SunSeeker
(51,662 posts)It appears that three such idiots killed 12 magnificent people over that cover.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)What part of that post fit: "disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate"?.
You may disagree with the post's comments, fine, debate them. There was nothing in that post that fit the requirements for hiding.
Is DU just becoming more and more OK with censoring comments some people may feel hit too close to home?
samsingh
(17,600 posts)ridiculous
Mojo Electro
(362 posts)This isn't a place you can freely speak your mind anymore. Rather than debate, people just move to censor when they are challenged.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Anytime you tell the truth about ***** , someone will alert and have a 50-50 shot at a hide.
samsingh
(17,600 posts)get the red out
(13,468 posts)It must be hard for 50% to breathe with their heads so far in the sand.
QC
(26,371 posts)alp227
(32,047 posts)We should be better than Free Republic/Front Page Magazine in discussing Islam. Sorry, "everything goes" has never been the mission of DU.
SunSeeker
(51,662 posts)The poster explicitly stated that "1.7 billion Muslims are not all like that."
Funny how that post was hidden, but not the one below it that said, "No religion is a religion of peace." I guess the lesson to learn is that when criticising Islam on DU, make sure you direct the same criticism at all religions.
I wonder if the cartoon those 12 journalists were killed over would have gotten a hide on DU before the shootings...
Burf-_-
(205 posts)Yes ... There are a whole leigon of apologists on DU just jonesing to get you silenced when you have any sort of dissenting opinion on Islam.
7962
(11,841 posts)And "everything goes" has usually been the norm whenever we are blasting the right. goose & gander
The post cited terrorist incidents to say Islam isn't the "religion of peace", never mind how most Muslims in the world are NOT terrorist apologists. Blames the "silent majority" for not condemning the "bad" muslims enough. And then tries to get out of it by saying "not all muslims". A post that complained about African Americans committing crime then saying "Not All Blacks..." wouldn't fly either.
Response to 7962 (Reply #112)
harun This message was self-deleted by its author.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that no other group - religious or not - gets. It's that simple and that depressing.
SunSeeker
(51,662 posts)riversedge
(70,285 posts)I heard that these murders may be French citizens who joined up with the militants
Deb Vermaas ?@debv219 2m2 minutes ago
Charlie Hebdo Staffer: 'It Lasted Five Minutes... They Spoke French Perfectly' @TPM http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/charlie-hebdo-staffer-says-attackers-claimed-to-be-al-qaida
...........
Corinne Rey, known as Coco, told French publication L'Humanite that she was "brutally threatened" by two armed men at the door of the newspaper's offices after picking her daughter up from daycare.
"They wanted to enter, go up. I typed the code," she said, as quoted by The Guardian. "They shot Wolinski, Cabu ... it lasted five minutes ... I had taken refuge under a desk."
Rey was referring to two of the newspaper's prominent cartoonists, who were among the 12 people killed in the attack.
"They spoke French perfectly ... claiming to be Al-Qaida," she said of the assailants, as quoted by the Guardian.
Other French media reported that the assailants told an eyewitness to "tell the media that we are from Al-Qaida in the Yemen," according to The Guardian.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I so hope they're caught soon, the murdering freaks. That poor woman, I can't even imagine the terror she must have felt. Awful.
uhnope
(6,419 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)This strikes at the very core of the right to freedom of speech, so long an avowed right of the people in France and a deep tradition there. And thus it strikes at the core of freedom of speech everywhere in the world.
Terrorism can't be allowed to silence voices, no matter how "offensive" those voices may be to you. As we learned as children, sticks and stones can break our bones, but words can never hurt us. This time, words (and images) resulted in great harm ... the deaths of twelve creative and brave individuals.
I'm so sad. I was living in France when Charlie Hebdo first started.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)kill all of the attackers and suffer no casualties.
tclambert
(11,087 posts)The gunmen showed some marksmanship skills, even discipline under threat. That shows some experience with firearms, perhaps military. But it doesn't seem like the attack would take more than one afternoon to plan. They just now had an "expert" saying he thinks they must have had help from others, and it's part of a wider plot.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)major "coverage". Fear.
Burf-_-
(205 posts)(False: it go's without saying that not all muslims are radical terrorists, Lamest argument ever, shut up with that already.)
"We can't be sure it was an Islamic radical group yet, wait for the facts."
(False: Yes WE CAN ! It was definitely Islamic terrorists.)
"Only Racists are against Islam"
(False equivocation: A religion is not a race, any more than an apple is an orange)
" You have to prove that the majority acts of terrorism these days are perpetrated by Muslims "
(Easy Odds there: When was he last time any other group of religious extremists hell bent on mass murdering people for drawing their prophet ? How many people have they killed now for this very asinine reason ? It isn't the first time, and probably won't be the last. How many other completely irrational, misogynist terrorist crimes do Extremist versions of islam perpetrate on their own, and other people than any other ? You can easily bet that whatever the final ratio is it's going to heavily favor islamic terrorists.
" Leave Islam ALONE !!!! "
(NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!: The *quran is where these murderers get the ideas in the first place, so... NO..WE WON'T, not until a majority of **muslim countries, their clergy, and most importantly their common people come together and show they will, unilaterally, crack down HARD on the barbaric practices of the MANY, MANY extremists within it. They Must demand reform in Islam itself so that anyone caught literally acting on the violent verses in the quran will be dealt with immediate ridicule and/or excommunication, made to stand trail and to be judged by bias free secular laws for their crimes, No Sharia for them ! zero exceptions.)
* Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered/killed or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."
No reasonable person who is peaceful will act literally on these. Furthermore why would any reasonable person even want to practice this or any religion with these malicious things written in their "holy" book, which their "GOD" demands they follow ?
** Interestingly enough El si-si calls for reform against radicals in Islam : http://www.commdiginews.com/featured/egyptian-president-el-sisi-seeks-enlightenment-reform-in-the-islamic-world-32819/#2EQkhhbohYVQQTKE.99
Response to Burf-_- (Reply #160)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
LeftishBrit
(41,209 posts)(False: it go's without saying that not all muslims are radical terrorists, Lamest argument ever, shut up with that already.)
Goes without saying? People like the EDL and LePen go around implying it all the time. Even though most victims of radical Muslim terrorists are in fact Muslims.
"We can't be sure it was an Islamic radical group yet, wait for the facts."
Who's been saying that? There is no doubt that they were Islamic radicals. What isn't yet clear is which group they belonged to.
"Only Racists are against Islam"
(False equivocation: A religion is not a race, any more than an apple is an orange)
It's not ONLY racists of course; but an awful lot of racists are against Islam mainly because it's a religion of a lot of furriners and immigrants. The same type of people hated furriners and immigrants long before jihadism even became an issue.
" You have to prove that the majority acts of terrorism these days are perpetrated by Muslims "
(Easy Odds there: When was he last time any other group of religious extremists hell bent on mass murdering people for drawing their prophet ? How many people have they killed now for this very asinine reason ? It isn't the first time, and probably won't be the last. How many other completely irrational, misogynist terrorist crimes do Extremist versions of islam perpetrate on their own, and other people than any other ? You can easily bet that whatever the final ratio is it's going to heavily favor islamic terrorists.
Well, obviously it would be Muslims who specifically objected to people ''drawing their prophet"; but there are terrorists of many religions and ideologies. 'Majority these days' - possibly, depending on how you define 'terrorism' as distinct from e.g. 'civil war' or 'gangsterism'. . But pre-1997 most terrorism in the UK for example stemmed from conflict between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland.
" Leave Islam ALONE !!!! "
(NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!: The *quran is where these murderers get the ideas in the first place -
Most unlikely - they got their ideas from radical leaders of the present day.
NO..WE WON'T, not until a majority of **muslim countries, their clergy, and most importantly their common people come together and show they will, unilaterally, crack down HARD on the barbaric practices of the MANY, MANY extremists within
So what do you propose that 'we' do about it? Go to war with all Muslim countries?