Record number at Germany's anti-immigrant rally

[inanna]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - More than 17,000 people took part in Germany's largest anti-immigrant rally to date on Monday in the eastern city of Dresden, gathering to sing Christmas carols and listen to speakers complain about immigrants and asylum-seekers.

The rally by a fast-growing grass-roots movement calling itself PEGIDA, or Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamization of the West, was its 10th and largest so far.

<snip>

A counter-demonstration of 4,000 people tried to disrupt the PEGIDA rally, which grew from a previous record of 15,000 a week ago and has embarrassed the political establishment with claims that Germany is being overrun by Muslims and other immigrants.

<snip>

Instead of their usual marches through the nighttime streets, the rally remained at the crowd sang Christmas classics as "Stille Nacht" (Silent Night) and "Oh, du froehliche". The Semper opera turned off its lights to protest the rally.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/22/us-germany-immigration-idUSKBN0K01W420141222?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

[hollowdweller]

1. Really afraid all this ISIS and blasphemy law BS

Will eventually lead the western countries to ban immigration from those areas.

Look at what happened in France not long ago with the guys running people over shouting Allu Akbar.

The right wing in Holland really got a boost with the islamic crazies killing Van Gogh.

What's sad is a lot of the nice people would like to get the hell out and if they have to stay then they have to suffer.

[Rhinodawg]

2. Why are the Germans against Islam ?

The Germans opened their borders and now they want to close them ?

[True Blue Door]

35. You haven't heard of the Fundamental Rule of Germanity.

Always take everything too far, including its opposite. In the span of a single generation, they explored the absolute extremes of Fascism and Communism - so Fascist they made most Fascists wince; so Communist, they made most Communists afraid of them. That takes a certain something.

They even take good things too far. Have you ever heard something so immoderately glorious as Beethoven? And nobody takes environmentalism as seriously as Germans. The Sierra Club board has to study up to be considered adequate in Germany.

[KamaAina]

3. Sieg heil!

[LeftishBrit]

4. Anti-immigrant sentiment is a common feature in Europe..

and it can't be blamed on ISIS; it's been around for a long time.

Somehow it seems particularly nasty to combine xenophobic rallies with Christmas carols. Season of Goodwill, except toward those Others.

[Rhinodawg]

6. And in the UK...

You have EDL.

[LeftishBrit]

8. Indeed, sadly.

I was including the UK in 'Europe' (though the EDL types might not).

[KamaAina]

5. "in the eastern city of Dresden"'

The nativist right is strong throughout the former East Germany, which is still a lot poorer than the West.

[Blue_Tires]

9. ^^^^^THIS

And just like every other country, when the jobs and opportunity are scarce in certain regions, it's pretty much a given that the outsider "others" will get scapegoated...

[heaven05]

7. more and more

hating. Keeping my eye on THESE nationalists.

[Quantess]

14. Hate as a response to hate (ISIS, terror attacks, etc)

Just about every european nation is becoming more and more anti-immigrant. So you may want to keep your eye on all of europe.

[cosmicone]

10. The muslims brought it upon themselves by harboring,

aiding and abetting the extremist crazies amongst them instead of reporting those people to the authorities.

[pampango]

11. So all Muslim immigrants are guilty of 'harboring, aiding and abetting' a few 'extremist crazies'?

We should hold entire ethnic/religious communities responsible for the acts of a few? That is certainly the message spread by the anti-immigrant far-right.

The rally by a fast-growing grass-roots movement calling itself PEGIDA, or Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamization of the West, was its 10th and largest so far.

Patriotic Europeans against the Islamization of the West (PEGIDA) is an extreme right wing group based in Dresden, Germany that has organized anti-Muslim protests drawing as many as 8,000-10,000 participants. "We do not accept any agitation of Salafists against non-believers or people of different faith," the right wing group said via its Facebook page.

http://www.trackingterrorism.org/group/patriotic-europeans-against-islamization-west-pegida

Do the gays "bring it upon themselves" when there are demonstrations against them because a few gays break laws? Are others in the gay community guilty of 'harboring, aiding and abetting' a few wrongdoers or does that only apply to Muslims?

The OP states that Dresden has "a tiny immigrant community". That apparently does not prevent the far-right from pushing their US vs. THEM message of hostility.

[Reter]

12. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Mon Dec 22, 2014, 11:03 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The muslims brought it upon themselves by harboring,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=971820

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Pure bigotry, blaming immigrants for anti immigrant sentiment is disgusting.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Dec 22, 2014, 11:10 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Let people see what these Hillraisers really are like
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I decided to vote to hide upon reading the first two words in this post: "The muslims"
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why would I vote to hide this? He's 100% right. Europe's most radical Muslims are not like the US' Muslims. The extremists over there terrorize European citizens daily.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Rhinodawg]

13. Wow

"Explanation: Why would I vote to hide this? He's 100% right. Europe's most radical Muslims are not like the US' Muslims. The extremists over there terrorize European citizens daily. "

Ask these countries...


Sweden...the rape capital of Europe
Germany
Norway
Denmark
UK...Home of the EDL
FRANCE
Spain
Switzerland ...home of the minaret vote


These countries have tried multiculturalism and they admit it's been an abysmal failure.

They want their worst fears to go away.

[pampango]

17. "These countries have tried multiculturalism and they admit it's been an abysmal failure." No.

All these countries have right wing parties that oppose immigration particularly for Muslim immigrants. Just because those parties on the right hate multiculturalism (it's a favorite target of conservatives in the US, as well) does not mean an entire country "admits it's been an abysmal failure".

There is a reason why these anti-immigration, right-wing populist parties are minority parties in every country in western Europe. While you may agree with them, they do not represent the beliefs of the majority of people in their countries.

[pampango]

18. "Europe's most radical Muslims are not like the US' Muslims." Extremists in any group are not like

the vast majority of people in their racial/ethnic/religious group. That's why we refer to them as 'extremists'.

The post would be more accurate if it read: "Europe's most radical Muslims are not like the vast majority of Muslims there."

Muslims are, not surprisingly, human beings very similar to the rest of us. They want to live in peace, have a good job, raise a family, have a say in their government. There are compromises that we all have to make to be part of a nation, particularly a liberal multicultural one, and extremists of all stripes have great difficulty with the idea of compromise.

To portray all Muslims (or all Blacks or all Hispanics or all Christians) as active terrorists or of "harboring, aiding and abetting" terrorists is not a liberal point of view.

[Rhinodawg]

24. Wrong...Angela Merkel: German multiculturalism has 'utterly failed'

The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, has courted growing anti-immigrant opinion in Germany by claiming the country's attempts to create a multicultural society have "utterly failed".

Speaking to a meeting of young members of her Christian Democratic Union party, Merkel said the idea of people from different cultural backgrounds living happily "side by side" did not work.

She said the onus was on immigrants to do more to integrate into German society.








http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed

[Quantess]

15. Agreed!

[Odin2005]

23. What bigoted horseshit.

[Cal Carpenter]

30. Wow, what bigotry

Disgusting.

Do you think every Muslim knows every other Muslim? That millions of regular every day people who are trying to go about their daily lives are ever-aware of what the few 'bad guys' are planning and are therefore responsible for the behavior of those bad guys if they don't report it?

Brought it upon themselves?

You lump a billion+ people around the world together like that? Or just the ones who have dared to leave their designated place?

Sick sick shit and a jury lets it stand.

You do know there are Muslims posting and reading on DU, I'm sure... Do you like insulting them?

I hope someday your eyes are opened to the great big world around you rather than clouded by fear for the rest of your days.
At the very least, I hope your hatred and bigotry doesn't directly impact the lives of people who you judge based on their nationality and religion.

[cosmicone]

31. Thank you for that sanctimonious response.

However, the reason is simple. Some of us have different experiences and fear has nothing to do with the way we think.

It has to do with a systematic attempt to change the host country and its culture rather than changing oneself to fit better in the host country's society.

This is how it goes and which victimizes people who have graciously opened their doors:

Step 1: Insist on being rabidly religious and force the entire immigrant population to be rabidly religious with intimidation.
Step 2: Ask for special laws and carved-out exceptions just for the immigrant minority population.
Step 3: Gradually insist that the native (host) population abide by the same standards.
Step 4: Preach the superiority of one's religion ad nauseum.
Step 5: Intimidate the host population into submitting.

When Kashmir joined India, it was 50% Hindu and 50% Muslim. By gradually driving away the Hindus by intimidation, targeted killings and general brutality, the Hindus are now <1% of the population. Now the demand comes that it is a "muslim majority state" so it should be an Islamic Republic.

The intimidation doesn't stop at other religions. Muslim women in Kashmir who want to wear jeans and T-shirts and not wear a hijab are threatened with acid attacks.

http://www.kashmiri-pandit.org/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9472909/Kashmir-women-ordered-to-cover-up-or-risk-acid-attack.html

There are thousands of stories like this from around the world where a domination of other religions/populations is aimed at and practiced.

[Rhinodawg]

33. Well ......If you're going to bring up facts

we're not going to get anywhere.


"This is how it goes and which victimizes people who have graciously opened their doors:

Step 1: Insist on being rabidly religious and force the entire immigrant population to be rabidly religious with intimidation.
Step 2: Ask for special laws and carved-out exceptions just for the immigrant minority population.
Step 3: Gradually insist that the native (host) population abide by the same standards.
Step 4: Preach the superiority of one's religion ad nauseum.
Step 5: Intimidate the host population into submitting. "


Case in point...Sweden.

[OldEurope]

16. Article is a bit misleading.

Dresden is the town where the so called "Pegida" is demonstrating. In other cities however the anti-pegida-rallies outnumber them - by far!
For example in Munich there were more than 12.000 people in a welcome rally for refugees and immigrants, and the Nazis were just 40 persons or so - they were easily silenced. (They even had another rally cancelled some days before because there were no followers )
We had musicians and the Mayor of Munich as well as a Bishop, an Imam and other popular persons speaking out against racism and hate. The choir of the Opera sung The Song of Joy and the police applauded with the demonstrators.
There were such events in other cities, too. Even in Dresden.
Please don`t condemn all Germans on what you hear about one small town.

What I cannot understand:
Dresden as the capital of Saxony has about 2 % immigrants in its populace, 2 percent! And those anti-islam-groups spew so much hate about that tiny group! Why? Do they need a scapegoat? The voter participation last time was nearly 50 %. I presume the other 50 % are now whining that they are not represented and that that is the result of some magical wrongdoing of politicians or immigrants or something.

Here in Munich we have more than 30 % - and we do not hate them. There are hundreds of us volunteering for the refugees, especially for the children. When we got a new pastor at our parish the Imam of the neighbouring mosque attended the service together with his family to show the friendship between the communities. Our children visit the same schools and sports clubs, we are working together and celebrating together.
I just cannot for the life of me understand those stupid haters there in Dresden.

[pampango]

19. "I just cannot for the life of me understand those stupid haters there in Dresden." Nice post.

Please don`t condemn all Germans on what you hear about one small town.

Nice to hear that most Germans do not agree with the right-wing protesters in Dresden.

Dresden as the capital of Saxony has about 2 % immigrants in its populace, 2 percent! And those anti-islam-groups spew so much hate about that tiny group! Why? Do they need a scapegoat?

Do they need a scapegoat? The answer is "Yes" and the far-right in Dresden is happy to provide them with one in the form of Muslim immigrants - even though they are a tiny percentage there.

Here in Munich we have more than 30 % - and we do not hate them.

A great example that the more that we deal with people who are different, the more we accept them.

... in Munich there were more than 12.000 people in a welcome rally for refugees and immigrants, and the Nazis were just 40 persons or so - they were easily silenced."

Great to hear.

Thanks for the post and the insight into what is happening in Munich, OldEurope.

[Orsino]

34. "Do they need a scapegoat?"

Yes, that's exactly what they always need. Anti-immigrant fever is about scapegoating, period.

[MisterP]

20. Dresden became a symbol of particular egregiousness in the WWII tactic of targeting

everyone's civilian populations

Douhet and Billy Mitchell and Bomber Harris promised burning whole cities would bring the war to an end in 6 months: this was in 1942

so no matter which side won the war, it was the bomber that ultimately won, against us humans; it also got Allies believing that anything's permitted to win a war and that civilians were a good target

once it became a neo-Nazi rallying cry, in fact, otherwise liberal people painted themselves into the corner of praising Dresden (presumably as a city so dangerous we could leave it alone for 5 years), producing freakshows like the Bush-loving "Anti-Germans"

[Lionel Mandrake]

21. The Germans started it.

The London Blitz killed about 20,000 civilians, in addition to about 20,000 killed in other British cities. This foolish action by the Nazis, who lacked heavy bombers, practically invited the subsequent allied raids on Hamburg, Berlin, etc., involving hundreds of heavy bombers. Dresden was as legitimate a military target as any other city in Germany. Nazis sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.

More terrible than Allied raids on Germany were those on Japan. Tokyo and other Japanese cities were attacked by heavy American bombers, using tactics devised by America's version of Bomber Harris: General Curtis Le May.



The nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki at the end of the war were a logical extension of Le May's tactics. By that time, having been fed a steady diet of racist propaganda, most people in the USA hated Japan and applauded Truman's decision to use nuclear weapons on Japanese cities.

[tabasco]

26. The hundreds of thousands of infantrymen

and thousands of air crews, who would have continued conventional bombing raids, also applauded Truman's decision.

[Lionel Mandrake]

32. Indeed they did, and understandably so.

Twin catastrophes (from the Japanese viewpoint) occurred in mid-August, 1945:

1. The devastating nuclear attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and

2. The devastating attack by Soviet troops on Japanese forces in Manchuria. For more on this topic, browse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria

In his attempt to rewrite history and to argue that #1 was a war crime, the current Russian dictator will no doubt claim that #2 was more important than #1 in forcing Japan to surrender. Similar claims have been made by the Soviets in the past, whereas most Americans have never even heard about #2 and believe that #1 was the deciding factor.

The reluctance of some Japanese leaders to surrender even after August 9 lends support to the view that #1 or #2 or both were necessary to avoid a prolonged war in which the USA would invade the mainland of Japan, with extremely high casualties on both sides. It has also been argued that more Japanese lives would have been lost in such an invasion than were lost at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[melm00se]

22. Billy Mitchell

resigned from military service (after being court-martialed) in 1926 and died in 1936.

[tabasco]

25. Good grief.

Pick up a book sometime and stop embarrassing yourself.

[tabasco]

29. One of the big complaints

is that the 1% want their cheap labor, so opening the gates of Germany to "Europe" has hurt the working people of Germany. My gf is a nurse and her hospital now brings in workers from all over East Europe, and the standards have gone down for everybody, including the patients.

The EU is just another scam foisted on the people by the rich.