Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Omaha Steve

(99,656 posts)
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 06:01 PM Dec 2014

Mom of boy shot by cop: I want police conviction

Source: USA Today

CLEVELAND — The mother of a 12-year-old boy who was shot and killed by a Cleveland police officer last month was clear.

"I'm actually looking for a conviction," Samiria Rice said Monday when asked what her goal would be in getting justice for her 12-year-old son, Tamir.

Tamir was killed in November after a 911 caller reported somebody was walking outside a recreation center with a gun. Although it was an "airsoft" gun, police say it was indistinguishable from a deadly firearm.

Rice said her son got the gun from a friend.

FULL story and video at link.



Samiria Rice, the mother of Tamir Rice, 12, who was shot and killed by Cleveland police last month, hopes for a conviction in order to get justice for her son. Speaking Monday, Dec. 8, 2014, for the first time publicly to Cleveland-area media since the Nov. 22, 2014 shooting, Rice said, "I don't allow that type of toy in my house around him. Period.&quot Photo: WKYC-TV, Cleveland)


Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/08/tamir-rice-cleveland-boy-shot-mother/20100515/

91 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Mom of boy shot by cop: I want police conviction (Original Post) Omaha Steve Dec 2014 OP
Lets all hope they convict the idiot who removed the markings and the one who gave it to the kid as cstanleytech Dec 2014 #1
Charge with what exactly? pkdu Dec 2014 #2
Manslaughter or maybe even murder might be a good start because cstanleytech Dec 2014 #12
Only one person pulled the trigger on a 12 yr old , within 1.5 seconds of opening his car door pkdu Dec 2014 #28
You saw the video right? Adrahil Dec 2014 #79
Of course I saw the video...hence my (sarcastic ) question... pkdu Dec 2014 #80
Really? Not all targets need be shot. immoderate Dec 2014 #5
I suspect that even the best trained police might have had a problem cstanleytech Dec 2014 #16
Looking at the video, the gun was NOT visible when the cops pulled up and shot him. uppityperson Dec 2014 #19
Yes I have watched it but the quality makes it difficult for me to tell what happened exactly. cstanleytech Dec 2014 #25
IF he was reaching for that gun, it wasn't visible when he was shot. uppityperson Dec 2014 #27
It is ridiculous to even suggest the child was reaching for the toy JimDandy Dec 2014 #40
I never said he was reaching for the toy gun "after" he was shot cstanleytech Dec 2014 #41
They didn't give him any time to respond to police commands. nomorenomore08 Dec 2014 #38
Thats not what I read. cstanleytech Dec 2014 #44
Not buying the police statement. Lugano Dec 2014 #45
Me neither, especially liberalhistorian Dec 2014 #82
I've watched the video. There's no way he had a reasonable amount of time to "surrender." nomorenomore08 Dec 2014 #46
Except if they used the cars PA system and that wouldnt show on camera. cstanleytech Dec 2014 #50
Uh.. proof of PA message.. Lugano Dec 2014 #53
"if" cstanleytech Dec 2014 #54
"its equally possible they are lying to cover their butts" nomorenomore08 Dec 2014 #56
It appears that every "if" you conjure is predisposed towards law enforcement LanternWaste Dec 2014 #88
Doesn't look like the best trained Stryder Dec 2014 #42
From the linked article (!): tblue37 Dec 2014 #86
This. amandabeech Dec 2014 #91
I will agree with you heaven05 Dec 2014 #7
This gets worse all the time. I had not read about the sister. jwirr Dec 2014 #9
I do not know who removed the markings but I think I read that it was his friend's gun. jwirr Dec 2014 #8
The point didn't just sail over your head - you ducked Scootaloo Dec 2014 #21
Whoever gave it to him did nothing illegal gwheezie Dec 2014 #61
I didnt say charged with altering the toy, rather charge them with causing the death of the kid by cstanleytech Dec 2014 #62
Are they sold with orange tips? gwheezie Dec 2014 #63
Check cstanleytech Dec 2014 #65
Doesn't apply to bb guns gwheezie Dec 2014 #66
So, if a BLACK friend heaven05 Dec 2014 #71
If his "BLACK" or "WHITE" friend is the one who altered the weapon? Yup cstanleytech Dec 2014 #72
okay heaven05 Dec 2014 #83
I don't want to blame the victim. murielm99 Dec 2014 #3
Did you watch the video? He did not have it viewable when cops arrived and shot him. They never saw uppityperson Dec 2014 #6
In the video I saw, the cops pulled up christx30 Dec 2014 #10
Please post a link to that video. It's not what I saw.. mountain grammy Dec 2014 #14
He must have another video than the one released since that one had no sound and the cops faces were uppityperson Dec 2014 #17
I've looked for another, but the only video of this crime mountain grammy Dec 2014 #23
You could see the cops tell him that? That is amazing since they were facing away from the camera. uppityperson Dec 2014 #15
In the video I saw the cops pulled up and immediately shot Tamir Rice csziggy Dec 2014 #18
They shot him literally within about 5 seconds of pulling up next to him. nomorenomore08 Dec 2014 #37
That's what I saw in the video - no time for the cops to yell anything at Tamir csziggy Dec 2014 #39
You guys do realize that police cars come equipped with a PA system right? cstanleytech Dec 2014 #47
So why haven't witnesses come forward to say they heard the police over the PA? csziggy Dec 2014 #55
I dont know just like I dont know if they used the PA but its possible that is a possibility cstanleytech Dec 2014 #60
Then you did not see the video of Tamir Rice being shot Scootaloo Dec 2014 #22
Where's this audio of keeping his hands Politicalboi Dec 2014 #34
And now he's going to get some more action... Lugano Dec 2014 #48
really heaven05 Dec 2014 #68
Gas stations handed these out in the 60's (like candy) Omaha Steve Dec 2014 #11
That reminded me - LiberalElite Dec 2014 #36
Tamir did not have it out when the police arrived, shot him. They did not see it before shooting him uppityperson Dec 2014 #4
We probably wont ever know for sure what happened since the video offers a limited viewpoint and cstanleytech Dec 2014 #24
Maybe the cops dashcam would show us more Politicalboi Dec 2014 #35
+1 freshwest Dec 2014 #13
I also hope for a conviction of the cop who killed this kid.. mountain grammy Dec 2014 #20
I wouldnt hold my breath as the officer was responding to a call of someone with a weapon. cstanleytech Dec 2014 #26
You hold your breath. There's plenty here to indict and convict.. mountain grammy Dec 2014 #32
Clearly for you there is which is probably why you would be dismissed cstanleytech Dec 2014 #43
There's plenty here for charges without a grand jury... mountain grammy Dec 2014 #49
Prosecutors also need evidence if they dont want the judge to throw the case out or cstanleytech Dec 2014 #52
Nonsense, they have a video of the incident.. mountain grammy Dec 2014 #58
There was video of the Reginald Denny attack and the jury didnt agree with the prosecutor in that cstanleytech Dec 2014 #59
Is it that cops heaven05 Dec 2014 #69
Nope I am sure there are some racist cops but I am just not willing to cstanleytech Dec 2014 #73
I would NEVER and never have said heaven05 Dec 2014 #84
I never said there wasnt "a" problem as for the size of it *shrug* thats a matter of opinion. cstanleytech Dec 2014 #89
yep heaven05 Dec 2014 #90
I dunno, the standard for even indictments of cops is pretty high tularetom Dec 2014 #30
Yes, just once, let's look at the history of the cop.. the twelve year old doesn't have one.. mountain grammy Dec 2014 #33
I wonder if being found unsuitable for work in another county Lugano Dec 2014 #51
Heartbreaking, the video should be proof for conviction, of course, these days it's obvious the AuntPatsy Dec 2014 #29
I fear she's going to be sorely disappointed. PeteSelman Dec 2014 #31
I can respond now since I calmed down gwheezie Dec 2014 #57
Try cstanleytech Dec 2014 #64
I'm answered above gwheezie Dec 2014 #67
It, the video, is NOT difficult to see heaven05 Dec 2014 #70
For you I am sure its not difficult at all. nt cstanleytech Dec 2014 #76
They sell real looking pellet guns at my corner store for 15 bucks. bravenak Dec 2014 #78
thank you for that heaven05 Dec 2014 #85
"In hindsight could they have handled it better? Maybe." Comrade Grumpy Dec 2014 #75
she'll be lucky to see an indictment 0rganism Dec 2014 #74
Me too nt abelenkpe Dec 2014 #77
I am looking for a conviction too. bigwillq Dec 2014 #81
For this woman marym625 Dec 2014 #87

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
1. Lets all hope they convict the idiot who removed the markings and the one who gave it to the kid as
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 06:12 PM
Dec 2014

they pretty much painted a target on the poor kid who clearly didnt know any better.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
12. Manslaughter or maybe even murder might be a good start because
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:05 PM
Dec 2014

thats what essentially what the person who removed the markings on the toy caused.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
79. You saw the video right?
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:21 PM
Dec 2014

Those cops pulled up very fast... The boy...a KID... Panicked. In less than 2 seconds the cops shot him. The kid never had a fucking chance.

 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
5. Really? Not all targets need be shot.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 06:26 PM
Dec 2014

Real, well-trained police do not handle these situations so poorly.

The cops, and the people who hired them should be held accountable.

--imm

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
16. I suspect that even the best trained police might have had a problem
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:10 PM
Dec 2014

telling the toy weapons from the real ones when they are responding to a call of someone with a weapon especial when the markings on the gun that are supposed to be there in order to make it easier for the police to distinguish the real from the toy version have been removed.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
19. Looking at the video, the gun was NOT visible when the cops pulled up and shot him.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:13 PM
Dec 2014

How could they know they even had the right person since they could not see any gun?

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
25. Yes I have watched it but the quality makes it difficult for me to tell what happened exactly.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:40 PM
Dec 2014

Mind you my old eyes arent the best by any means but I can see that around 1.00 or so in the video its clear the police pull up but at 1.05??????????????? I honestly cant tell if he was reaching around reacting to being shot and grabbing his stomach in pain or if he was reaching into a pocket and then the cops shot him.
I just cannot honestly tell.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
27. IF he was reaching for that gun, it wasn't visible when he was shot.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:49 PM
Dec 2014

At best, they thought he was reaching for a gun. But they did not see it before he was shot, which makes me wonder why the decided this person was the one with a "gun".

"black male, with a gun", oh look, there's a black male, let's pull up close and omg he is going for his gun bam?

Which then leads me to wonder if there was another black male there, if Tamir had left before the cops arrived, would he have been shot instead (reaching for his waistband as so many males of color do )?

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
40. It is ridiculous to even suggest the child was reaching for the toy
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:47 PM
Dec 2014

gun after being shot, if that's what you mean by 'reaching into a pocket'. The boy knew it was a useless TOY.

What really gets me is that the 2 officers exibited depraved indifference when they didn't come to his aid after shooting him. In some cities, you or I could have been charged for not coming to aid of another person. Why aren't police held to at least that standard?

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
41. I never said he was reaching for the toy gun "after" he was shot
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:24 PM
Dec 2014

just that from the video it looks like one of two options.
A. He was shot and then grabbed his stomach area.
B. He reached around to his stomach area and then was shot.
If its "A" then the cop might be on the hook atleast somewhat if the officer cannot provide a legitimate reason for shooting but what if its option "B" though ?
Offhand if its "B" then the odds are the officer will be cleared.
But regardless if they decide to charge the officer or not I still believe that the person who modified the toy should be charged for manslaughter.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
38. They didn't give him any time to respond to police commands.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:27 PM
Dec 2014

They pulled up, then shot him about 2 seconds later.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
44. Thats not what I read.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:33 PM
Dec 2014
http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/everything-we-know-tamir-rice


Minutes later, police arrived at the park and pulled their car within feet of Rice. Cleveland Police Officer Frank Garmback, 46, drove the patrol car, and a rookie officer, Timothy Loehmann, 26, rode in the passenger seat. Before the vehicle came to a complete stop, Loehmann opened the passenger side door and shot Rice in his torso. A police statement said that the officers asked Rice to raise his hands but the boy instead reached for the gun at his waist.

liberalhistorian

(20,818 posts)
82. Me neither, especially
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:49 PM
Dec 2014

having lived in the Cleveland area for several decades (no longer as I'm in another state entirely, thank God!) and knowing how fucked-up the police and its administration is there. CYA is an art form with them. And I see things haven't changed a bit, sad to say.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
46. I've watched the video. There's no way he had a reasonable amount of time to "surrender."
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:36 PM
Dec 2014

"Before the vehicle came to a complete stop (emphasis mine), Loehmann opened the passenger side door and shot Rice in his torso.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
50. Except if they used the cars PA system and that wouldnt show on camera.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:42 PM
Dec 2014

Now that aside I am wondering something and that is.............where is the video from the patrol car and why hasnt it been released?
That would shed some more light on this you would think and resolve some of these questions.

 

Lugano

(52 posts)
53. Uh.. proof of PA message..
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:46 PM
Dec 2014

Please, provide proof that the killer cop has said the statement. And I will take it in a form of a link to an article about it.

No right-wing or pro-police sources please.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
54. "if"
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:48 PM
Dec 2014

1if conjunction \ˈif, əf\
—used to talk about the result or effect of something that may happen or be true

—used to discuss the imaginary result or effect of something that did not happen or that is or was not true

—used to say that something must happen before another thing can happen

Translation: Dont be obtuse as I was pointing out a possible way that would explain it but its equally possible they are lying to cover their butts which is why I am also wondering where the patrol cars video is.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
56. "its equally possible they are lying to cover their butts"
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:57 PM
Dec 2014

Given recent history - plus what the video shows - I'd say this is a near-certainty.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
88. It appears that every "if" you conjure is predisposed towards law enforcement
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 03:03 PM
Dec 2014

It appears that each and every "if" you conjure up is predisposed towards law enforcement. Some might perceive that as a bias rather than an indifferent analysis of the given scenario...

tblue37

(65,393 posts)
86. From the linked article (!):
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:47 AM
Dec 2014
The Cleveland police officer who shot and killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice last month resigned from a previous small-town police job when he was deemed emotionally unstable and unfit for duty, especially in his handling of firearms <emphasis added>.

Video released by the Cleveland police showed Officer Timothy A. Loehmann, 26, shooting Tamir immediately upon leaving his police car on Nov. 22. Investigators said Tamir was reaching into his waistband for a weapon — which turned out to be a toy pellet gun.

A prosecutor plans to take the case before a grand jury to decide any charges. The case has drawn national attention along with the police killing of an unarmed man in Ferguson, Missouri, and the chokehold death of a New York man in a confrontation with an officer.

<SNIP>

In a November 2012 memo, Deputy Chief Jim Polak recommended that Loehmann be dismissed. He questioned Loehmann's ability to follow instructions and to make good decisions in stressful situations <emphasis added>.
 

amandabeech

(9,893 posts)
91. This.
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 04:22 PM
Dec 2014

Police departments need to screen applicants much more carefully.

They also need to get bad officers off the street. That idiot who killed Garner had three prior instances of bad behavior in which NYC paid a settlement. He should have been off the force or sitting at the back of the property room, not out killing people on the street.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
7. I will agree with you
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 06:43 PM
Dec 2014

the toy looked real. But the dispatcher call worries me for the obvious omission of "fake" gun statement by caller. If it was 911, that call is on record. Also the tape shows gun was not out in the 1.5 seconds of police rolling up and shooting of Tamir. Gun was not visible. His 14year old sister was in the back seat of the police car, handcuffed, watching him die. They made her watch. She got upset at shooting and they tackled her and handcuffed her and threw her in the back seat where his life was expiring. That's just cruel.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
61. Whoever gave it to him did nothing illegal
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 01:41 AM
Dec 2014

What makes you think it had an orange tip? They sell those things without orange tips and there's no law that says a kid can't have one.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
62. I didnt say charged with altering the toy, rather charge them with causing the death of the kid by
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 03:05 AM
Dec 2014

their providing it.
A good DA could probably build a case that their actions of modifying and then providing the toy to the child lead to the boys shooting and thereby his death.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
63. Are they sold with orange tips?
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 03:11 AM
Dec 2014

They aren't at the Walmart where I live. Do you have any proof that item is sold with an orange tip? If it's not sold with an orange tip it wasn't modified. Go to Amazon and look up any number of air guns being sold. Do they have orange tips? The police said the orange tip was missing.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
66. Doesn't apply to bb guns
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 03:56 AM
Dec 2014

The orange tip fed law doesn't apply to BB guns. I don't know what they do in Ohio but in Virginia they don't have orange tips on the BB guns sold in Walmart. The articles about the rice shooting puts the words air soft in quotes. I want to know what brand this gun was and the model to know if it's sold with an orange tip. I looked on Amazon and depending on the gun they didn't all have orange tips.
It's just something that is bothering me. With the Crawford shooting the news reported the make and model of the gun. But I can seem to find that info about the rice shooting. I want to know if the gun rice had actually is sold with an orange tip because that's not true for certain types of air guns.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
71. So, if a BLACK friend
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 10:36 AM
Dec 2014

let Tamir play with his toy, happens all the time, and Tamir got killed playing with the toy, then the BLACK friend should be charged/penalized also? Man you are a card!. Joker of the deck......

murielm99

(30,745 posts)
3. I don't want to blame the victim.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 06:24 PM
Dec 2014

This is indefensible.

But this poor child should not have had a gun of any kind.

We never gave our kids toy guns. When they were old enough, they learned to use real shotguns, and to use them safely. We live in the country, and it is part of our culture. I have no qualms about being a gun owner. Anyway, this is about out of control cops, not hunters.

One of my girls is a good shot. My son is terrible, and my oldest girl is not interested. But we are white. It is very unlikely that anyone is going to kill us over holding a gun.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
6. Did you watch the video? He did not have it viewable when cops arrived and shot him. They never saw
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 06:26 PM
Dec 2014

it until he was shot on the ground. Unless there is more the video does not show, but look at the vid. They didn't see it before shooting him.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
10. In the video I saw, the cops pulled up
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:03 PM
Dec 2014

told the kid to keep his hands where they could see them. He reached into the waistband of his pants, and they shot him. If he had followed instructions, he would be alive today.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
17. He must have another video than the one released since that one had no sound and the cops faces were
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:12 PM
Dec 2014

not visible.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
23. I've looked for another, but the only video of this crime
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:26 PM
Dec 2014

shows no faces and has no audio. The shooter arrived in a police car, one one thousand, the door opened, two one thousand, the kid fell on the ground. The shooter cop came in there with guns blazing. After all, this wasn't a bunch of white guys exercising their right to open carry in Ohio, this was a twelve year old black kid with a toy. The shooter cop must have been terrified.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
15. You could see the cops tell him that? That is amazing since they were facing away from the camera.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:09 PM
Dec 2014

I saw them pull up fast, stop suddenly, and shoot him in seconds. I'd like a link to the video where you could see them telling him "to keep his hands where they could see them". Thanks.

Odd since the cops said they yelled out the window as they were driving up. So, I'll check back later for your video showing what you say you saw.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
18. In the video I saw the cops pulled up and immediately shot Tamir Rice
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:12 PM
Dec 2014

They claim they told him three times to put his hands up - but in the video that I've seen online and on the news there was not time for them to tell him even once or time for him to respond.



What video did you see where "the cops pulled up told the kid to keep his hands where they could see them?" I have not seen any video of Tamir Rice's homicide with sound. If you have, please provide a link so I can see it.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
37. They shot him literally within about 5 seconds of pulling up next to him.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:24 PM
Dec 2014

"Trigger-happy" would be an understatement in this case.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
39. That's what I saw in the video - no time for the cops to yell anything at Tamir
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:41 PM
Dec 2014

They just drove up and shot him, almost before they got completely out of their car.

Then the cop who shot Tamir ran away from the dying child and hid behind the car while the driver walked away from the scene. Very odd behavior for normal human beings.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
55. So why haven't witnesses come forward to say they heard the police over the PA?
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:53 PM
Dec 2014

The cops' own story claims they got out of the car, told Tamir three times to put his hands up and when he reached for his waist, they shot him. Their story was very specific about the "three times" and they said nothing about a PA.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
60. I dont know just like I dont know if they used the PA but its possible that is a possibility
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 12:14 AM
Dec 2014

just like its a possibility that they are lying and thats why there needs to be an investigation over the entire incident from the start.
That means they need to find out who modified the toy, who gave it to the kid, who called, did the police follow standard procedure?

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
34. Where's this audio of keeping his hands
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 09:22 PM
Dec 2014

Where they could see them? You do know that the pigs who shot him NEVER should have been cops to begin with. Especially the shooter. They had NO time to say ANYTHING to the kid. The cowards could have told him over their loud speaker to put the gun down while they hid behind their own guns. But they were too much in a hurry to shoot first and ask questions later. If these were good cops, that kid would still be alive today.

The shooter wanted "more action" on the job. Now he has it.

 

Lugano

(52 posts)
48. And now he's going to get some more action...
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:41 PM
Dec 2014

in main line in one of Ohio's worst prisons... once he's convinced of murder in the second....

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
68. really
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 09:41 AM
Dec 2014

in 1.5 seconds all that happened before Tamir was on the ground dying. Post the link for your video please.

Omaha Steve

(99,656 posts)
11. Gas stations handed these out in the 60's (like candy)
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:04 PM
Dec 2014

My older sister and I both had one. We would have been maybe 5 & 9. I never had a cop pull up and shoot me. No red on the end of the barrel. It fired rubber bands.



uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
4. Tamir did not have it out when the police arrived, shot him. They did not see it before shooting him
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 06:25 PM
Dec 2014

After they shot him they saw it, and then did not give first aid of any sort for nearly 4 minutes.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
24. We probably wont ever know for sure what happened since the video offers a limited viewpoint and
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:29 PM
Dec 2014

its just so blurry that its hard to see what the kid did exactly as the police pulled in from of him.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
20. I also hope for a conviction of the cop who killed this kid..
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:15 PM
Dec 2014

at the very least, this is manslaughter or how about reckless endangerment? There must be accountability for these deaths.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
26. I wouldnt hold my breath as the officer was responding to a call of someone with a weapon.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:43 PM
Dec 2014

Toy or not I just dont see any jury convicting him for it unless something comes up showing he knew the kid was unarmed beforehand and so far I havent heard any such evidence.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
32. You hold your breath. There's plenty here to indict and convict..
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 08:58 PM
Dec 2014

This is not police procedure. Sorry you can't see it..

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
43. Clearly for you there is which is probably why you would be dismissed
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:30 PM
Dec 2014

with prejudice for jury duty if you were one of the ones picked for it.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
49. There's plenty here for charges without a grand jury...
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:41 PM
Dec 2014

the prosecutor just needs some guts, highly unlikely. There should be a special prosecutor in these cases.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
52. Prosecutors also need evidence if they dont want the judge to throw the case out or
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:45 PM
Dec 2014

if they want the case to have a chance in hell of standing an appeal.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
58. Nonsense, they have a video of the incident..
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 12:01 AM
Dec 2014

this needs to be aired in an open and public court of law, not in some secret grand jury room. Nothing but cover for the DA and the cops. Without consequences this will never end.
Did you see this. You need to read this article. It was posted here on DU

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-police-are-still-out-of-control-112160.html#.VIPgK-znaHo

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
59. There was video of the Reginald Denny attack and the jury didnt agree with the prosecutor in that
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 12:06 AM
Dec 2014

case either.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
69. Is it that cops
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 10:10 AM
Dec 2014

in your book, are not on a tear, racist or otherwise, in this country? Why is it that with you it's always a fault of the victim for their death. I saw the video also. Within 1.5 seconds of the cops driving up, Tamir was on the ground bleeding to death. Why did they not administer any type of first aid and why would they tackle his 14 year old sister, who was upset at the shooting of her brother, handcuff her and throw her in the backseat with Tamir who had been tossed in the same backseat to die? There was nothing but cruelty involved in this shooting. Okay YOU don't want the racist tag on this murder? Fine. How about extreme cruelty and viciousness shown to two black children by two white cops. Make you feel better? You really are .............amazing in your willful blindness to the obvious and your denial and discounting of victims of racist murder. Your denial of racism sweeping our country among white people and these days, a LOT of white cops especially, is not making you look as fair and balanced as you have tried so hard to portray yourself in quite a few cases involving just unarmed black people and only white cops. This is america and this is you with the seagull on their head...... ....just a matter of time...years, months, decades.....the decline of the Roman empire was a long and painful process for its citizens......deadly to hundreds of thousands in that empire, especially in the 'conquered country's. I know my history and you keep trying to deny what's building to a flashpoint that will culminate one day in violence that will auger the beginning of our end. Fine. ButI believe it's just a matter of time now, especially with the 'leaders' amerikkkans chose on Nov 4, 2014. I can't wait to see RW people realizing that TPTB and their paid off Congressional and SCOTUS lackeys don't care a whit about them and revel in their suffering...REVEL, yes good RW amerikkkans, REVEL in your misery. And the sad fact is, most of those RWers are too stupid to realize it or don't care as long as those brown people suffer worse. You are understood and your responses..........sigh.....

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
73. Nope I am sure there are some racist cops but I am just not willing to
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 07:45 PM
Dec 2014

to automatically assume every police officer is a racist because they shoot someone who is black like you are automatically assuming.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
84. I would NEVER and never have said
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:42 AM
Dec 2014

Last edited Wed Dec 10, 2014, 11:54 AM - Edit history (2)

or assumed that all WHITE police officers are racist. That's not the point here. I'm saying that A LOT of cops, who are racist, of which there are MANY, will shoot a black, unarmed alleged perp before they would shoot a white unarmed alleged perp. You do really have a blind spot when it comes to admitting what a large problem racism is in this country, both systemically and institutionally. I will go further and say it is attitudes and denial like yours, held by many progressives and liberals, that impedes the search for resolve to this huge problem of racist hate in america. You have held the view that the black man got killed, while unarmed, because he didn't acquiesce to the white mans orders quick enough consistently, and that the white cops words and actions are something unimpeachable and beyond reproach.

It has NEVER been that way in this country when it comes to white police officers in 'questionable' "good shoots" of unarmed and armed black people. Trayvon didn't bow down to zimpig quick enough when zimpig demanded Trayvon bow down, so it was his fault that he lies in a grave, rotting. All killing(s) of black people since then, a majority unarmed, have been justified by you only because the power and authority of white police officers is inviolate and sacrosanct, especially when it comes to the dispensing of justice to black people, males especially. That's all you have been saying based on some wilsonthepig notion that his word was to be obeyed because wilsonthepig had the power to be judge, jury and eventually, executioner. You say Michael Brown deserved to die because he did something to wilsonthepig and you have no room to believe that wilsonthepig initiated conflict. The 'evidence' presented by a dubiously fair and balanced grand jury procedure is irreproachable to you. Man oh man! You have gone on and on excusing murder and denying official culpability and possible corruption based on racism when in fact, racism IS at the bottom of a majority of these, your implied impression, "good shoots". Fine. You are set in your thinking, so am I. Good luck on your path.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
89. I never said there wasnt "a" problem as for the size of it *shrug* thats a matter of opinion.
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 03:13 PM
Dec 2014

"You are set in your thinking, so am I." You made it crystal clear about that long ago.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
30. I dunno, the standard for even indictments of cops is pretty high
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 08:13 PM
Dec 2014

Even when there is a video showing a guy being choked to death by some idiot cop, the grand jury ignores it. This video is nowhere near as clear as the one in the Garner death.

In this case, the cop was scared shitless and fired on the kid practically before the car even stopped. Furthermore the same cop was fired from another department for being emotionally unsuited for police work.

A lot of people have some splainin to do behind this incident. The cop, his partner, his supervisors, whoever determined this asswipe was fit to be a police officer and on and on. But I don't have much confidence that anything will come out of it.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
33. Yes, just once, let's look at the history of the cop.. the twelve year old doesn't have one..
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 09:00 PM
Dec 2014

and no future either.

 

Lugano

(52 posts)
51. I wonder if being found unsuitable for work in another county
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:44 PM
Dec 2014

would enchance the shooter cop to murder in the first degree?

Yes, I think it would. If I was in the Ohio grand jury, I'd agree with a murder in the first.



AuntPatsy

(9,904 posts)
29. Heartbreaking, the video should be proof for conviction, of course, these days it's obvious the
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 07:53 PM
Dec 2014

Actually video will be useless in wanting justice served

PeteSelman

(1,508 posts)
31. I fear she's going to be sorely disappointed.
Mon Dec 8, 2014, 08:50 PM
Dec 2014

If the recent past is precedent.

You'd think this one would be a slam dunk but I thought the NYC choking video was a slam dunk too.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
57. I can respond now since I calmed down
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 12:00 AM
Dec 2014

I can't believe anyone is defending the action of the police. What kind of agenda does someone have that defends what the cops did.
Also how do you know someone removed the Orange tip? I don't think those air guns have orange tips. They sell those in Walmart and tractor supply here. None of them have orange tips. I want to see s picture of one with an orange tip. The someone removed the orange tip so the police had to shoot him spin is ridiculous. I saw the gun in his pants. They shot him before he got it out.
They killed a 12 year old child ffs. What difference does it make if someone gave it to him. It's not illegal. You have to be 18 to buy one but there is no law that says you can't give it to a kid. Kids get them as Christmas presents and they don't have orange tips. Whoever gave it to him wasn't breaking a law. Tamir wasn't breaking the law. How about we blame the deranged cop who killed him. I call bullshit on anyone trying to deflect this.
I didn't know that about his mom and sister. The fucking cowards threatened them.

cstanleytech

(26,293 posts)
64. Try
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 03:23 AM
Dec 2014
http://www.airsplat.com/Items/GP-302BH-M9-CO2.htm
The orange tip isnt exactly difficult to paint over and then you have a problem as most people and even most police officers probably couldnt tell the difference unless they got close enough to examine it and its why some people have been trying to get them banned.
And it isnt a problem of him breaking the law because he clearly didnt do that and no one is saying he did rather the police were responding to a call someone made that there was someone with a gun.
In hindsight could they have handled it better? Maybe
The video though (if you have watched it) is poor and its difficult to see if the police are telling the truth and he reached for something as they are claiming or if they simply shot him and that it was just he was just suddenly grabbing at the area he was shot in.
Things might be more clear once the police release the video (assuming there is one) from the patrol car itself that responded but so far they have not done so which (again assuming it exists) does not paint a good picture for the police if they are withholding it as there just is no need to do that especially if it exonerates the officers.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
67. I'm answered above
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 04:01 AM
Dec 2014

Not every air gun is required to have an orange tip. You can buy a variety of "toy" guns on Amazon without an orange tip or Walmart for that matter

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
70. It, the video, is NOT difficult to see
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 10:30 AM
Dec 2014

unless you want it to be difficult to see. I watched it, 1.5 seconds between the car rolling up and the child on the ground dying. What can't you understand about time frames?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
78. They sell real looking pellet guns at my corner store for 15 bucks.
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:12 PM
Dec 2014

They do not come with an orange tip. And my nephews who are 6 and 10 play with nerf guns and manage to break them and nerf guns are much more resilient than those pellet guns.
When I try to get the children's attention, it usually takes them a good amout of time to tranition from play time, to serious business. That cop did not give the child a chance.it was murder.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
85. thank you for that
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:45 AM
Dec 2014

implied assertion. And for you, I am sure, it is VERY difficult to see what you choose not to see. backatcha with the ..........

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
75. "In hindsight could they have handled it better? Maybe."
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 08:32 PM
Dec 2014

That's quite an understatement there.

I hope you don't injure your spine bending over backwards to justify this killing.

0rganism

(23,955 posts)
74. she'll be lucky to see an indictment
Tue Dec 9, 2014, 07:54 PM
Dec 2014

killer's a cop, victim is black, no crime, no harm done, DA will represent the cop during the pro-forma grand jury proceeding. case closed.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
87. For this woman
Wed Dec 10, 2014, 11:15 AM
Dec 2014

To stand so strong, to speak so honestly, to even appear before cameras, so soon after her child, truly a child, was so violently, senselessly and viciously taken from her, is nothing less than amazing.

The Rice family has shown such grace and dignity throughout such a horrible ordeal. Beginning with the insistence that the video of the murder of their beloved Tamir be released to the public.

Their little daughter, 14 year old Samaria Rice, suffered at the hands of these heartless bastards that murdered Tamir. She was at the park when he was murdered, gunned down in cold blood, and when she tried to reach her brother, lying on the cold ground, blending to death, the heartless pigs handcuffed her and, threatened her and threw her in the back of the squad car. They were more concerned with shutting her up than giving any aid to the child or even calling for an ambulance. Ms. Rice came to the park to find her one child was shot and dying and her daughter cuffed and detained in a cop car.

It is nothing less than inhumane.

I don't know how you give a mother justice for this. I don't believe it is possible.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Mom of boy shot by cop: I...