Mom of boy shot by cop: I want police conviction
Source: USA Today
CLEVELAND The mother of a 12-year-old boy who was shot and killed by a Cleveland police officer last month was clear.
"I'm actually looking for a conviction," Samiria Rice said Monday when asked what her goal would be in getting justice for her 12-year-old son, Tamir.
Tamir was killed in November after a 911 caller reported somebody was walking outside a recreation center with a gun. Although it was an "airsoft" gun, police say it was indistinguishable from a deadly firearm.
Rice said her son got the gun from a friend.
FULL story and video at link.
Samiria Rice, the mother of Tamir Rice, 12, who was shot and killed by Cleveland police last month, hopes for a conviction in order to get justice for her son. Speaking Monday, Dec. 8, 2014, for the first time publicly to Cleveland-area media since the Nov. 22, 2014 shooting, Rice said, "I don't allow that type of toy in my house around him. Period." Photo: WKYC-TV, Cleveland)
Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/08/tamir-rice-cleveland-boy-shot-mother/20100515/
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)they pretty much painted a target on the poor kid who clearly didnt know any better.
pkdu
(3,977 posts)Your sense of priorities is enlightening btw.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)thats what essentially what the person who removed the markings on the toy caused.
pkdu
(3,977 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Those cops pulled up very fast... The boy...a KID... Panicked. In less than 2 seconds the cops shot him. The kid never had a fucking chance.
pkdu
(3,977 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)Real, well-trained police do not handle these situations so poorly.
The cops, and the people who hired them should be held accountable.
--imm
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)telling the toy weapons from the real ones when they are responding to a call of someone with a weapon especial when the markings on the gun that are supposed to be there in order to make it easier for the police to distinguish the real from the toy version have been removed.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)How could they know they even had the right person since they could not see any gun?
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)Mind you my old eyes arent the best by any means but I can see that around 1.00 or so in the video its clear the police pull up but at 1.05??????????????? I honestly cant tell if he was reaching around reacting to being shot and grabbing his stomach in pain or if he was reaching into a pocket and then the cops shot him.
I just cannot honestly tell.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)At best, they thought he was reaching for a gun. But they did not see it before he was shot, which makes me wonder why the decided this person was the one with a "gun".
"black male, with a gun", oh look, there's a black male, let's pull up close and omg he is going for his gun bam?
Which then leads me to wonder if there was another black male there, if Tamir had left before the cops arrived, would he have been shot instead (reaching for his waistband as so many males of color do )?
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)gun after being shot, if that's what you mean by 'reaching into a pocket'. The boy knew it was a useless TOY.
What really gets me is that the 2 officers exibited depraved indifference when they didn't come to his aid after shooting him. In some cities, you or I could have been charged for not coming to aid of another person. Why aren't police held to at least that standard?
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)just that from the video it looks like one of two options.
A. He was shot and then grabbed his stomach area.
B. He reached around to his stomach area and then was shot.
If its "A" then the cop might be on the hook atleast somewhat if the officer cannot provide a legitimate reason for shooting but what if its option "B" though ?
Offhand if its "B" then the odds are the officer will be cleared.
But regardless if they decide to charge the officer or not I still believe that the person who modified the toy should be charged for manslaughter.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)They pulled up, then shot him about 2 seconds later.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)Lugano
(52 posts)CYA statement.
Nope, not believing it based what I saw.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)having lived in the Cleveland area for several decades (no longer as I'm in another state entirely, thank God!) and knowing how fucked-up the police and its administration is there. CYA is an art form with them. And I see things haven't changed a bit, sad to say.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)"Before the vehicle came to a complete stop (emphasis mine), Loehmann opened the passenger side door and shot Rice in his torso.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)Now that aside I am wondering something and that is.............where is the video from the patrol car and why hasnt it been released?
That would shed some more light on this you would think and resolve some of these questions.
Lugano
(52 posts)Please, provide proof that the killer cop has said the statement. And I will take it in a form of a link to an article about it.
No right-wing or pro-police sources please.
1if conjunction \ˈif, əf\
used to talk about the result or effect of something that may happen or be true
used to discuss the imaginary result or effect of something that did not happen or that is or was not true
used to say that something must happen before another thing can happen
Translation: Dont be obtuse as I was pointing out a possible way that would explain it but its equally possible they are lying to cover their butts which is why I am also wondering where the patrol cars video is.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Given recent history - plus what the video shows - I'd say this is a near-certainty.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)It appears that each and every "if" you conjure up is predisposed towards law enforcement. Some might perceive that as a bias rather than an indifferent analysis of the given scenario...
Stryder
(450 posts)tblue37
(65,393 posts)Video released by the Cleveland police showed Officer Timothy A. Loehmann, 26, shooting Tamir immediately upon leaving his police car on Nov. 22. Investigators said Tamir was reaching into his waistband for a weapon which turned out to be a toy pellet gun.
A prosecutor plans to take the case before a grand jury to decide any charges. The case has drawn national attention along with the police killing of an unarmed man in Ferguson, Missouri, and the chokehold death of a New York man in a confrontation with an officer.
<SNIP>
In a November 2012 memo, Deputy Chief Jim Polak recommended that Loehmann be dismissed. He questioned Loehmann's ability to follow instructions and to make good decisions in stressful situations <emphasis added>.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Police departments need to screen applicants much more carefully.
They also need to get bad officers off the street. That idiot who killed Garner had three prior instances of bad behavior in which NYC paid a settlement. He should have been off the force or sitting at the back of the property room, not out killing people on the street.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)the toy looked real. But the dispatcher call worries me for the obvious omission of "fake" gun statement by caller. If it was 911, that call is on record. Also the tape shows gun was not out in the 1.5 seconds of police rolling up and shooting of Tamir. Gun was not visible. His 14year old sister was in the back seat of the police car, handcuffed, watching him die. They made her watch. She got upset at shooting and they tackled her and handcuffed her and threw her in the back seat where his life was expiring. That's just cruel.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)gwheezie
(3,580 posts)What makes you think it had an orange tip? They sell those things without orange tips and there's no law that says a kid can't have one.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)their providing it.
A good DA could probably build a case that their actions of modifying and then providing the toy to the child lead to the boys shooting and thereby his death.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)They aren't at the Walmart where I live. Do you have any proof that item is sold with an orange tip? If it's not sold with an orange tip it wasn't modified. Go to Amazon and look up any number of air guns being sold. Do they have orange tips? The police said the orange tip was missing.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)Legally they are supposed to be sold with markings to distinguish them from the real thing.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)The orange tip fed law doesn't apply to BB guns. I don't know what they do in Ohio but in Virginia they don't have orange tips on the BB guns sold in Walmart. The articles about the rice shooting puts the words air soft in quotes. I want to know what brand this gun was and the model to know if it's sold with an orange tip. I looked on Amazon and depending on the gun they didn't all have orange tips.
It's just something that is bothering me. With the Crawford shooting the news reported the make and model of the gun. But I can seem to find that info about the rice shooting. I want to know if the gun rice had actually is sold with an orange tip because that's not true for certain types of air guns.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)let Tamir play with his toy, happens all the time, and Tamir got killed playing with the toy, then the BLACK friend should be charged/penalized also? Man you are a card!. Joker of the deck......
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)murielm99
(30,745 posts)This is indefensible.
But this poor child should not have had a gun of any kind.
We never gave our kids toy guns. When they were old enough, they learned to use real shotguns, and to use them safely. We live in the country, and it is part of our culture. I have no qualms about being a gun owner. Anyway, this is about out of control cops, not hunters.
One of my girls is a good shot. My son is terrible, and my oldest girl is not interested. But we are white. It is very unlikely that anyone is going to kill us over holding a gun.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)it until he was shot on the ground. Unless there is more the video does not show, but look at the vid. They didn't see it before shooting him.
christx30
(6,241 posts)told the kid to keep his hands where they could see them. He reached into the waistband of his pants, and they shot him. If he had followed instructions, he would be alive today.
mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)not visible.
mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)shows no faces and has no audio. The shooter arrived in a police car, one one thousand, the door opened, two one thousand, the kid fell on the ground. The shooter cop came in there with guns blazing. After all, this wasn't a bunch of white guys exercising their right to open carry in Ohio, this was a twelve year old black kid with a toy. The shooter cop must have been terrified.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)I saw them pull up fast, stop suddenly, and shoot him in seconds. I'd like a link to the video where you could see them telling him "to keep his hands where they could see them". Thanks.
Odd since the cops said they yelled out the window as they were driving up. So, I'll check back later for your video showing what you say you saw.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)They claim they told him three times to put his hands up - but in the video that I've seen online and on the news there was not time for them to tell him even once or time for him to respond.
What video did you see where "the cops pulled up told the kid to keep his hands where they could see them?" I have not seen any video of Tamir Rice's homicide with sound. If you have, please provide a link so I can see it.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)"Trigger-happy" would be an understatement in this case.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)They just drove up and shot him, almost before they got completely out of their car.
Then the cop who shot Tamir ran away from the dying child and hid behind the car while the driver walked away from the scene. Very odd behavior for normal human beings.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)csziggy
(34,136 posts)The cops' own story claims they got out of the car, told Tamir three times to put his hands up and when he reached for his waist, they shot him. Their story was very specific about the "three times" and they said nothing about a PA.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)just like its a possibility that they are lying and thats why there needs to be an investigation over the entire incident from the start.
That means they need to find out who modified the toy, who gave it to the kid, who called, did the police follow standard procedure?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Where they could see them? You do know that the pigs who shot him NEVER should have been cops to begin with. Especially the shooter. They had NO time to say ANYTHING to the kid. The cowards could have told him over their loud speaker to put the gun down while they hid behind their own guns. But they were too much in a hurry to shoot first and ask questions later. If these were good cops, that kid would still be alive today.
The shooter wanted "more action" on the job. Now he has it.
Lugano
(52 posts)in main line in one of Ohio's worst prisons... once he's convinced of murder in the second....
heaven05
(18,124 posts)in 1.5 seconds all that happened before Tamir was on the ground dying. Post the link for your video please.
Omaha Steve
(99,656 posts)My older sister and I both had one. We would have been maybe 5 & 9. I never had a cop pull up and shoot me. No red on the end of the barrel. It fired rubber bands.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)as kids in the '50s we played with cap guns.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)After they shot him they saw it, and then did not give first aid of any sort for nearly 4 minutes.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)its just so blurry that its hard to see what the kid did exactly as the police pulled in from of him.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I wonder if one exists.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)at the very least, this is manslaughter or how about reckless endangerment? There must be accountability for these deaths.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)Toy or not I just dont see any jury convicting him for it unless something comes up showing he knew the kid was unarmed beforehand and so far I havent heard any such evidence.
mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)This is not police procedure. Sorry you can't see it..
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)with prejudice for jury duty if you were one of the ones picked for it.
mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)the prosecutor just needs some guts, highly unlikely. There should be a special prosecutor in these cases.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)if they want the case to have a chance in hell of standing an appeal.
mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)this needs to be aired in an open and public court of law, not in some secret grand jury room. Nothing but cover for the DA and the cops. Without consequences this will never end.
Did you see this. You need to read this article. It was posted here on DU
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-police-are-still-out-of-control-112160.html#.VIPgK-znaHo
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)case either.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)in your book, are not on a tear, racist or otherwise, in this country? Why is it that with you it's always a fault of the victim for their death. I saw the video also. Within 1.5 seconds of the cops driving up, Tamir was on the ground bleeding to death. Why did they not administer any type of first aid and why would they tackle his 14 year old sister, who was upset at the shooting of her brother, handcuff her and throw her in the backseat with Tamir who had been tossed in the same backseat to die? There was nothing but cruelty involved in this shooting. Okay YOU don't want the racist tag on this murder? Fine. How about extreme cruelty and viciousness shown to two black children by two white cops. Make you feel better? You really are .............amazing in your willful blindness to the obvious and your denial and discounting of victims of racist murder. Your denial of racism sweeping our country among white people and these days, a LOT of white cops especially, is not making you look as fair and balanced as you have tried so hard to portray yourself in quite a few cases involving just unarmed black people and only white cops. This is america and this is you with the seagull on their head...... ....just a matter of time...years, months, decades.....the decline of the Roman empire was a long and painful process for its citizens......deadly to hundreds of thousands in that empire, especially in the 'conquered country's. I know my history and you keep trying to deny what's building to a flashpoint that will culminate one day in violence that will auger the beginning of our end. Fine. ButI believe it's just a matter of time now, especially with the 'leaders' amerikkkans chose on Nov 4, 2014. I can't wait to see RW people realizing that TPTB and their paid off Congressional and SCOTUS lackeys don't care a whit about them and revel in their suffering...REVEL, yes good RW amerikkkans, REVEL in your misery. And the sad fact is, most of those RWers are too stupid to realize it or don't care as long as those brown people suffer worse. You are understood and your responses..........sigh.....
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)to automatically assume every police officer is a racist because they shoot someone who is black like you are automatically assuming.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 10, 2014, 11:54 AM - Edit history (2)
or assumed that all WHITE police officers are racist. That's not the point here. I'm saying that A LOT of cops, who are racist, of which there are MANY, will shoot a black, unarmed alleged perp before they would shoot a white unarmed alleged perp. You do really have a blind spot when it comes to admitting what a large problem racism is in this country, both systemically and institutionally. I will go further and say it is attitudes and denial like yours, held by many progressives and liberals, that impedes the search for resolve to this huge problem of racist hate in america. You have held the view that the black man got killed, while unarmed, because he didn't acquiesce to the white mans orders quick enough consistently, and that the white cops words and actions are something unimpeachable and beyond reproach.
It has NEVER been that way in this country when it comes to white police officers in 'questionable' "good shoots" of unarmed and armed black people. Trayvon didn't bow down to zimpig quick enough when zimpig demanded Trayvon bow down, so it was his fault that he lies in a grave, rotting. All killing(s) of black people since then, a majority unarmed, have been justified by you only because the power and authority of white police officers is inviolate and sacrosanct, especially when it comes to the dispensing of justice to black people, males especially. That's all you have been saying based on some wilsonthepig notion that his word was to be obeyed because wilsonthepig had the power to be judge, jury and eventually, executioner. You say Michael Brown deserved to die because he did something to wilsonthepig and you have no room to believe that wilsonthepig initiated conflict. The 'evidence' presented by a dubiously fair and balanced grand jury procedure is irreproachable to you. Man oh man! You have gone on and on excusing murder and denying official culpability and possible corruption based on racism when in fact, racism IS at the bottom of a majority of these, your implied impression, "good shoots". Fine. You are set in your thinking, so am I. Good luck on your path.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)"You are set in your thinking, so am I." You made it crystal clear about that long ago.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)Even when there is a video showing a guy being choked to death by some idiot cop, the grand jury ignores it. This video is nowhere near as clear as the one in the Garner death.
In this case, the cop was scared shitless and fired on the kid practically before the car even stopped. Furthermore the same cop was fired from another department for being emotionally unsuited for police work.
A lot of people have some splainin to do behind this incident. The cop, his partner, his supervisors, whoever determined this asswipe was fit to be a police officer and on and on. But I don't have much confidence that anything will come out of it.
mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)and no future either.
Lugano
(52 posts)would enchance the shooter cop to murder in the first degree?
Yes, I think it would. If I was in the Ohio grand jury, I'd agree with a murder in the first.
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Actually video will be useless in wanting justice served
PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)If the recent past is precedent.
You'd think this one would be a slam dunk but I thought the NYC choking video was a slam dunk too.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I can't believe anyone is defending the action of the police. What kind of agenda does someone have that defends what the cops did.
Also how do you know someone removed the Orange tip? I don't think those air guns have orange tips. They sell those in Walmart and tractor supply here. None of them have orange tips. I want to see s picture of one with an orange tip. The someone removed the orange tip so the police had to shoot him spin is ridiculous. I saw the gun in his pants. They shot him before he got it out.
They killed a 12 year old child ffs. What difference does it make if someone gave it to him. It's not illegal. You have to be 18 to buy one but there is no law that says you can't give it to a kid. Kids get them as Christmas presents and they don't have orange tips. Whoever gave it to him wasn't breaking a law. Tamir wasn't breaking the law. How about we blame the deranged cop who killed him. I call bullshit on anyone trying to deflect this.
I didn't know that about his mom and sister. The fucking cowards threatened them.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)The orange tip isnt exactly difficult to paint over and then you have a problem as most people and even most police officers probably couldnt tell the difference unless they got close enough to examine it and its why some people have been trying to get them banned.
And it isnt a problem of him breaking the law because he clearly didnt do that and no one is saying he did rather the police were responding to a call someone made that there was someone with a gun.
In hindsight could they have handled it better? Maybe
The video though (if you have watched it) is poor and its difficult to see if the police are telling the truth and he reached for something as they are claiming or if they simply shot him and that it was just he was just suddenly grabbing at the area he was shot in.
Things might be more clear once the police release the video (assuming there is one) from the patrol car itself that responded but so far they have not done so which (again assuming it exists) does not paint a good picture for the police if they are withholding it as there just is no need to do that especially if it exonerates the officers.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)Not every air gun is required to have an orange tip. You can buy a variety of "toy" guns on Amazon without an orange tip or Walmart for that matter
heaven05
(18,124 posts)unless you want it to be difficult to see. I watched it, 1.5 seconds between the car rolling up and the child on the ground dying. What can't you understand about time frames?
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)They do not come with an orange tip. And my nephews who are 6 and 10 play with nerf guns and manage to break them and nerf guns are much more resilient than those pellet guns.
When I try to get the children's attention, it usually takes them a good amout of time to tranition from play time, to serious business. That cop did not give the child a chance.it was murder.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)implied assertion. And for you, I am sure, it is VERY difficult to see what you choose not to see. backatcha with the ..........
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)That's quite an understatement there.
I hope you don't injure your spine bending over backwards to justify this killing.
0rganism
(23,955 posts)killer's a cop, victim is black, no crime, no harm done, DA will represent the cop during the pro-forma grand jury proceeding. case closed.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I believe these cops should be prosecuted.
marym625
(17,997 posts)To stand so strong, to speak so honestly, to even appear before cameras, so soon after her child, truly a child, was so violently, senselessly and viciously taken from her, is nothing less than amazing.
The Rice family has shown such grace and dignity throughout such a horrible ordeal. Beginning with the insistence that the video of the murder of their beloved Tamir be released to the public.
Their little daughter, 14 year old Samaria Rice, suffered at the hands of these heartless bastards that murdered Tamir. She was at the park when he was murdered, gunned down in cold blood, and when she tried to reach her brother, lying on the cold ground, blending to death, the heartless pigs handcuffed her and, threatened her and threw her in the back of the squad car. They were more concerned with shutting her up than giving any aid to the child or even calling for an ambulance. Ms. Rice came to the park to find her one child was shot and dying and her daughter cuffed and detained in a cop car.
It is nothing less than inhumane.
I don't know how you give a mother justice for this. I don't believe it is possible.