British Loan of Elgin Marbles Sculpture to Russia Sparks Greek Outrage

[former9thward]

Source: Wall Street Journal

The British Museum on Friday said it lent one of a collection of Greek sculptures to Russia, reigniting a battle between the U.K. and Greece over who owns the 2,500-year-old works known as the Elgin marbles.

Greece reacted with fury to the loan of the headless, reclining sculpture of the river god Ilissos to Russia’s State Hermitage Museum in St. Petersburg. It is the first time one of the sculptures has left the U.K. since they were removed from the Parthenon in Athens more than 200 years ago.

The Greek government has waged a long-running diplomatic campaign for their return, and Britain has consistently refused to give them back. Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras called the loan a provocation.

“The Parthenon and its sculptures were pillaged,” Mr. Samaras said in a statement. “We Greeks identify with our history and culture! They cannot be cut up, borrowed and handed over!”

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/articles/greece-angry-over-british-museums-loan-of-ancient-sculptures-taken-from-parthenon-1417796844?KEYWORDS=british+loan+of+elgin+marbles

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This is a legacy of European imperialism where they looted archaeological finds so the 'right people' could see them.

[skepticscott]

1. Anyone can see them now

which would not have been the case if the "European imperialists" had left them where they found them.

[former9thward]

7. Anyone can go to the British Museum?

Maybe in your circles.

[skepticscott]

15. And where do you think they should be

where more people could see them than can now? Those who can't visit the museum in person can see them online. None of that would be possible if the "European imperialists" had just left the statues where they were to be looted by people who would have either destroyed them or kept them hidden ever since.

[Diclotican]

16. former9thward

former9thward

Im not sure with you - but if you live in Europe - British Museum is less than a couple of hours away in London - and by the way - most of the artwork British Museum have today - is accessible online on its web page - thousands of ancient treasures is there to bee seen and looked upon...

But of course - the best had been if the greek artifacts had been back home - in Greece.. But that is not the case here

Diclotican

[MADem]

2. Pootie might steal 'em....These are RUSSIAN marbles now!!!!!!

The Elgin Marbles would probably be decorating the floor of someone's kitchen as chopped up tiles had not those imperialist buttheads (who were imperious and jerky and condescending, of that there is no doubt) snatched them up.

I think Greece needs to just "deal" on this one, and be pleased that their heritage is in reasonably safe hands. I don't think UK will back down.

A good look at both sides of the issue, here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/greeks/parthenon_debate_01.shtml

....On the one hand, the local population was using it as a convenient quarry. A good deal of the original sculpture, as well as the plain building blocks, were reused in local housing or ground down for cement. On the other hand, increasing numbers of travellers and antiquarians from northern Europe were busily helping themselves to anything they could pocket (hence the scattering of pieces of Parthenon sculpture around European museums from Copenhagen to Strasbourg) - and among these collectors was Lord Elgin....

[LiberalLovinLug]

4. Just like the Superbowl ring of Robert Kraft

Can't be too careful around Vlad, (especially with Murdoch overseeing things)

[MADem]

5. This is RUSSIAN Superbowl ring NOW!!!! Mine, mine, MINE!!!

Oh...Crimean Peninsula, too!

[former9thward]

9. Yeah, maybe we should ship the Pyramids to somewhere 'safe'.

And places like Machu Picchu in Peru has a lot of good stuff -- I know, I've been there -- maybe we should take it out of Peru's hands so it is 'safe'.

[MADem]

10. What's this "we" shit? Are you a representative of the British Empire?

It's obvious from your unnecessarily "huffy" attitude that you didn't even bother to read the link I offered.

If the marbles had been left where they were, they wouldn't be there anymore--they'd be cement, tiles, and ripped off for private collections.

But hey, fire up the outrage if it keeps you warm, and all that! I doubt any minds are going to be changed by your ire--mine certainly isn't.

[former9thward]

13. I don't post to change minds.

Anyone who does is kidding themselves. You are acting as the representative of the British empire when you defend all of this. There are plenty of things world wide that have not been "turned into cement". Maybe India should have shipped the Globe Theater out of London. The British turned that into tenement housing. I'm sorry, I don't take the imperialist view of these things.

[MADem]

14. I am not the one using the "we" word--YOU are.

I'm simply imparting a few facts, and you're getting up on a soapbox to rail about them. Fact is, if Elgin hadn't swiped those marbles, someone else would have. And if he hadn't been broke and sold them to the British government, no one would be complaining about them because they'd be Gone Baby Gone.

And all the "Maybe (fill in name of country) should have shipped (fill in historical architectural piece) to (fill in name of city/vague locale)" examples won't make a damn difference. That little set piece is getting stale.

Uhhhhh...you DO know that the Globe Theater burnt to the ground before anyone gave a shit about historical import of buildings , don't you? It's covered by newer buildings because it was consumed by flames. I'm kinda thinking maybe you don't realize this....and why would India (silly example--like they had the capability) take that one, when India could build their own--and build it bigger and better for less money, owing to labor costs? Never mind that when India became the jewel in the British crown, the Brits could have swiped it back, even though it is a really lame and lousy attempt at an example. I mean, really--that's like saying Why doesn't Canada take that Walmart in Fairfax County, VA? Like a) They'd want it, and b) They could? It just makes no sense.

The "valued architectural sites" where the marbles were located were a dump at the time Elgin stole them--the site had a mosque inside the temple, and people were stealing from the ruins left, right and center. Read the article at the link I provided, it will bring you up to speed.

Sometimes, to the victors belong the spoils. That's life. You yelling at me ain't changing that.

But whatever--stay angry, my friend, if that's what keeps you engaged.

[former9thward]

18. They rebuilt the Globe immediately after the fire.

The "newer buildings" came long after the fire.

[MADem]

22. And then the landlord evicted them, and then the Puritans closed it down (the third one).

What's your point, really?

No one came through with an urban renewal plan, and no one "stole" the theater and squirreled it off to India, either. The fact that Georgian buildings are now on the site of the Globe theater has nothing to do with either the Globe theater, or with the Elgin marbles.

And there's a 4th Globe theater, built to original specs, on a different site, that you can tour if you'd like. They even put on plays.

[skepticscott]

17. Everyone who posts here

does so with the intention of influencing the thinking of others. Anyone who says they aren't is kidding themselves and being dishonest to others.

[former9thward]

19. Not what I said.

I said if you think you are influencing others you are kidding yourself. See the difference?

[Bragi]

23. One of us is confused

You clearly think Greece has no appreciation whatsoever for it's treasures. Me, I was in Athens spring 2013 and distinctly recall visiting the ultra-modern Acropolis Museum, which offers a fabulous array of artifacts. It includes a top floor constructed to show off the marbles up close, with the Parthenon framed in the background. That preparation for the return of the Marbles hardly suggests a disregard for these priceless treasures.

[MADem]

24. Where did I say "Greece has no appreciation whatsoever for it's (sic) treasures"--please point

to that comment you're saying I made.

The one that is confused here isn't me.

Of course Greece wants them back. If they had no appreciation for them, they wouldn't be raising a stink.

I doubt they'll prevail. I don't think UK will be moved.

[trusty elf]

3. ......

[url=http://postimage.org/][img][/img][/url]

[MADem]

6. Did you do that? Brilliant! nt

[trusty elf]

8. Mmm-hmmm

[MADem]

11. My admiration for your talents, once again, knows no bounds! nt

[The Jungle 1]

12. Thank you

Thank you for saving this treasure GB.
NOW GIVE IT BACK it is not yours.

This is like how we in the states think it is just fine to keep native American bones in museum basements. It is not ok and the native Americans want their people back.

[CTyankee]

20. Geebus, yes! Give them BACK! Here in New Haven, Yale gave back the Macchu Picchu

artifacts stolen by Yale employee Hiram Bingham and they had been kept in the Yale Peabody Museum for YEARS! Yale hired the best lawyers money could buy to argue in court to keep the artifacts but in 2010 sanity returned to Yale and they GAVE THEM BACK.

Do the right thing, UK. Give the Elgin Marbles back to Greece. You fuckin' stole them. GIVE THEM BACK!

[appalachiablue]

21. Right.