Wife confirms man killed in plane crash is Senate candidate

[n2doc]

Source: KCCI

DUBUQUE, Iowa —The wife of Doug Butzier confirmed Tuesday morning to KCRG-TV that it was Butzier who was killed in a plane crash Monday.

Butzier is running for U.S. Senate as the Libertarian candidate against Republican Joni Ernst and Democrat Bruce Braley.

The crash was reported Monday night near Dubuque Regional Airport.

"I was just sitting in there watching TV and all that I heard was an airplane going vrrrmmm -- boom! Blew up, came up and seen big ole flames on the neighbor's yard," plane crash witness Jeremy Becker told KCRG-TV.


Read more: http://www.kcci.com/news/pilot-dies-in-small-plane-crash-in-iowa/29114668

[mopinko]

1. things that make you go hmmmmm

[mike dub]

2. You beat me to it, mopinko N/t

[FourScore]

5. +1000

[seabeyond]

7. I was thinking the same. We are all soooo cynical when it comes to a little plane and the powerful

Threatened. With no proof. Sigh

[FourScore]

19. Stephan Gaghan (director of Syriana) interview - MUST HEAR!

PARTICULARLY LISTEN TO THE LAST 10 SECONDS.

[seabeyond]

27. thanks. certainly interesting.

appreciate.

[ChiciB1]

29. CComing Back Later To Watch... n/t

[nilram]

34. um, woah, on all counts

[dixiegrrrrl]

49. "plane blew up" seems worth a hmmmmmmmm or 2. n/t

[GGJohn]

50. It blew up when it hit the ground,

as do many aircraft when they crash.
He actually had to abort the first approach and on the second approach, the plane crashed.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/14/politics/iowa-candidate-plane-crash/index.html

[dixiegrrrrl]

51. ok....thanks.

First cup of coffee has not hit yet.....

[Blue_Tires]

12. if there is foul play, it will be easy to discover

[KamaAina]

14. One would think.

But going back to Wellstone, the NTSB published a one-paragraph "report", despite the fact that a beacon near the airport was found to be slightly off-kilter, as though someone had pushed it way out of line and then not quite gotten it back right.

[hack89]

21. The NTSB issued a 76 page report where they discussed the beacon in great detail.

http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2003/AAR0303.pdf


Everyone, including the pilots, were aware of the issues with the beacon:

The FAA’s most recent periodic flight check of the EVM VOR occurred on
June 12 and 13, 2001, and the facility status was listed as “satisfactory” on FAA Form
8240-2; however, the form also indicated that the EVM VOR remained restricted per a
December 4, 1996, notice to airmen (NOTAM), which was still in effect at the time of the
accident. The NOTAM indicated that the EVM VOR was unusable in the area from the
204° radial through the 264° radial and in the area from the 264° radial through the
204° radial beyond 20 miles and below 4,000 feet.

Wellstone died because he had a crappy pilot:

Aviation Charter’s lead ground instructor stated that the pilot was average on
learning airplane systems and that several company pilots had indicated that the pilot’s
flying skills were below average. Several Aviation Charter pilots who had flown with the
accident pilot described him as “very meticulous,” “by the book,” “calm,” and “laid back.”
The pilot was also described as “friendly,” “cheerful,” “pleasant,” “calm,” and “diligent in
his use of checklists.” According to several Aviation Charter copilots, the accident pilot was
generally well liked by them because he had a reputation for letting them fly the airplane.
A few copilots stated that because the pilot often let them handle the flight controls, they
were not certain of his skill level. Several Aviation Charter pilots indicated that the accident
pilot often allowed them to conduct the flights they flew with him as if they were
single-pilot operations (that is, he allowed them to handle the flight controls and
communications and perform all of the checklists without his assistance).

One Aviation Charter pilot expressed concerns about the pilot’s flying skills,
monitoring capabilities, and tendency to become distracted. Some company pilots stated that
the accident pilot was not particularly assertive; however, other pilots stated that they
thought the accident pilot could be assertive, if necessary. One company pilot, who had
flown with the accident pilot shortly after Aviation Charter hired him, described him as “too
timid to be a pilot.” An Aviation Charter King Air pilot indicated that he had taken the
airplane controls away from the accident pilot during an instrument approach because he
could not maintain altitude. A company King Air copilot indicated that during level flight in
IMC, he had to take the controls away from the accident pilot because he allowed the
airplane to enter a 45° bank and a 1,000-fpm descent.

[Blue_Tires]

30. Thanks...

I was about to dig that up...

[hack89]

31. Some conspiracy theories never die. nt

[kickysnana]

32. FBI must first rule that it was other than an accident for NTSB full investigaion.

If the FBI says accident, no full investigation per Wellstone Crash.

Sounds backasswards to me.

[Blue_Tires]

39. Well the FBI was first on the scene in Chicago for UA553

and the NTSB did a full investigation there...

I've never known the NTSB to *not* do a full investigation, not counting crashes where little to none of the aircraft was recovered, or where foreign governments refused to cooperate (which hasn't been common since the cold war ended)

[kickysnana]

43. NTSB investigated it as an "accident" only.

I remembered it wrong the USAG had to designated the crash a crime scene for any investigation into criminal activity to be done. He did not so NTSB only investigated the crash as an accident. Too much for me to post.

Details with sources listed here.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/070605_wellstone.shtml

[Blue_Tires]

45. That link says "Electromagnetic weaponry" brought the plane down?

and the co-pilot was buddy-buddy with Zacharias Moussaoui??

Seriously?? Is that the direction we're going with this??


All I'll say is Paul Wellstone's memory deserves better than this very, very creative speculation...

Fun Fact: Mohamed Atta and some cohorts spent some time in Virginia Beach while they were planning the attack -- When I worked at the oceanfront I walked by the diner they were eating in numerous times...You could probably connect ME to the 9-11 plot if you tried hard enough...Believe it or not, my "strange coincidences" go even deeper than this, but I'll stop here

[kickysnana]

47. EPW is one speculation there. Speculation is not facts.

Moussaoui? Same flight school, not buddy buddy.

DU Charter Members remember hearing about the Arabs at the flight schools and the FBI knowing about the Arabs at the flight schools before 9/11 Asleep at the wheel.

They had Moussoui in custody here in Minneapolis and the FBI local office was blocked from getting a warrant to search his seized computer. Warrants were almost as available as they are now but DC blocked them from getting one. MIHOP. The Minneapolis office was also caught with a sculpture from the remains of 911.

I was doing genealogy on my computer when I heard it announced on the news that Wellstones Plane had gone down. Immediately I called Gov Jesse's office and begged the operator to please give the Gov a message that he needed someone in authority from the State up there immediately I had never done anything like that before but the words out of my mouth following the TV announcement were "Damn, Chaney did kill him like he said he would. Maybe now they have gone too far." After the fact Jesse incorporated the controversy of the crash into an episode his Cable show.

I got you beat on the ? degrees of separation but like you, I will stop here.

[Blue_Tires]

62. Then there are no "facts" at all in that piece then

(aside from the ones they cited in the official report) because they certainly don't come up with any other definitive alternate explanation to explain the crash...

Sometimes a simple stall is a simple stall -- Happens more often than you think; even to experienced pilots...

[get the red out]

3. Thoughts for his family

Tragedy.

[KamaAina]

4. A small plane?

Like Wellstone's?

[yellowcanine]

52. And Buddy Holly

[GGJohn]

53. And former Sen. Ted Stevens of Alaska.

[yellowcanine]

55. Hale Bogs and Nick Begich, Patsy Cline

Lots of well known people have died in small planes.

[GGJohn]

56. Yep, that's why I don't attach any conpiracy of sabotage to this particular crash.

Small planes fall out of the sky more often than most people think.

[KamaAina]

57. You all forgot Jim Croce.

[GGJohn]

59. The late great Jim Croce!!!!!

Loved his music, was really bummed out when I heard the news.
Another one, though not a small plane but a helicopter, Stevie Ray Vaughn.

[KamaAina]

60. Dude, you can lose the avatar now

and I forgot about Stevie Ray!

[GGJohn]

61. Damn those LA Dodgers!!!!!!

Like the Angels, they choke when it counts the most.

It's looking more and more like a Royals-Giants World Series.

[yellowcanine]

58. Yes, it is only national news when a famous person dies.

Part of the problem is that many pilots of small planes lack experience with how to deal with adverse conditions and they may not recognize their limitations. Or they simply don't fly enough to stay sharp.

[Faux pas]

6. Condolences to his family.

It is pretty curious though.

[asiliveandbreathe]

8. So sad for his family

Brings to mind Paul Wellstone MN. US Senate from 1991 until his death in a plane crash in 2002.

A member of the Democratic Farmer-Labor Party, Wellstone was a leading spokesman for the progressive wing of the national Democratic Party.

So sad.

[Gore1FL]

9. And Mel Carnahan and Jerry Litton and...

[cascadiance]

10. Hmm... Will his votes stay with him, be cast on the Republican, or...?

This could be one of the closest elections in the Senate this fall, and really have a switch in political ideology from the great Senator Harkin who I once voted for many years ago when I was still a resident of Iowa and worked for the station that did that interview. Hope they investigate that as thoroughly as they have lately been investigating our Democratic governor candidate's wife actions here in Oregon.

[KamaAina]

11. They're not even married

only engaged. Richardson must really be desperate.

[0rganism]

13. Richardson is going to lose by 10

yeah, Oregon republicans are desperate

[cascadiance]

17. Yep, Oregon Republicans are desperate if they pick a bum like this as their state party chair!

http://www.oregonlive.com/mapes/index.ssf/2014/05/art_robinsons_latest_urine_hun.html

[jmowreader]

15. Very sad, but politics almost certainly hasn't anything to do with it

First problem: Butzier was a nonentity in the race. Let's be real: up until right now had you even heard his name? The pollsters weren't asking about him. He was giving it the good old college try and we must respect that. It wouldn't be worth either candidate's time or money to bump him off.

Second problem: the plane he was flying. According to http://time.com/3507067/iowa-senate-candidate-plane-crash-doug-butzier/ he flew a Piper PA 46-310B. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-46, this model was made between 1982 and 1986, and has a Continental engine. In 1986, they discontinued this model because the engines caused a series of "incidents and accidents."

So let me see...a candidate no one was planning to vote for anyway falls out of the sky in a model of plane known for doing that very thing. He was also a physician, a subset of humanity famous for dying in single-person plane crashes - they work so hard and take off so little time for personal life they forget the little nuances of flight, and when a routine problem guys who fly a lot would be able to easily manage happens, they get overwhelmed and fly the thing into the ground.

I think the guy just died in a non-extraordinary plane crash, and his status as a Senate candidate had nothing to do with it.

[cascadiance]

16. Some might ask what could have happened in 2000 in Florida if Nader had died before the election...

... then by say a month or so. Would have those votes people had cast for him then been cast for Gore instead? Who knows...

Whether or not there was wrongdoing involved or not, you still have to wonder how it affects the dynamics of what could be a very close Senate race there.

[progressoid]

20. Last poll I saw that included him, showed him with 2% of the vote.

Right now the race is a statistical tie. Those 2% may be critical. However, in this state, it's hard to say where those voters will cast their vote now. They might go with another 3rd party candidate. Or, it's possible many will vote for him posthumously anyway.

Regardless, I don't see this as a political dirty trick either.


edited to add, I just read his positions and he's a pretty right wing variety of Libertarian, so Ernst will likely gain some critical votes from this.

[gerogie2]

18. Of Course his wife will file a lawsuit...

so that the big tax and spend government can make someone pay her a huge amount of money for her loss. Just sayin...

[moonbeam23]

22. So they wellstoned him

because he was going to take votes away from reptilian Joni...this is getting ridiculous...

We are becoming a banana republic right before our eyes...

Maybe all politicians not on Koch bros payroll should start barnstorming by train, just like the olden days...

[GGJohn]

23. There's zero proof that his plane was sabotaged.

Unless you have the proof? Do you? The NTSB would love to view your evidence of foul play.
BTW, the Wellstone plane went down because of a shitty pilot.

[valerief]

36. Number 14?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/25/1280353/-Simple-Rules-for-Spotting-a-Troll

[GGJohn]

38. I don't get it.

Are you accusing me of being a troll?
Just because I said that there's no evidence of this being sabotage? Or is it because I said that the Wellstone plane went down because of a crappy pilot?

[hack89]

24. Wellstone died because he had a crappy pilot.

Aviation Charter’s lead ground instructor stated that the pilot was average on
learning airplane systems and that several company pilots had indicated that the pilot’s
flying skills were below average. Several Aviation Charter pilots who had flown with the
accident pilot described him as “very meticulous,” “by the book,” “calm,” and “laid back.”
The pilot was also described as “friendly,” “cheerful,” “pleasant,” “calm,” and “diligent in
his use of checklists.” According to several Aviation Charter copilots, the accident pilot was
generally well liked by them because he had a reputation for letting them fly the airplane.
A few copilots stated that because the pilot often let them handle the flight controls, they
were not certain of his skill level. Several Aviation Charter pilots indicated that the accident
pilot often allowed them to conduct the flights they flew with him as if they were
single-pilot operations (that is, he allowed them to handle the flight controls and
communications and perform all of the checklists without his assistance).

One Aviation Charter pilot expressed concerns about the pilot’s flying skills,
monitoring capabilities, and tendency to become distracted. Some company pilots stated that
the accident pilot was not particularly assertive; however, other pilots stated that they
thought the accident pilot could be assertive, if necessary. One company pilot, who had
flown with the accident pilot shortly after Aviation Charter hired him, described him as “too
timid to be a pilot.” An Aviation Charter King Air pilot indicated that he had taken the
airplane controls away from the accident pilot during an instrument approach because he
could not maintain altitude. A company King Air copilot indicated that during level flight in
IMC, he had to take the controls away from the accident pilot because he allowed the
airplane to enter a 45° bank and a 1,000-fpm descent.

http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2003/AAR0303.pdf

[cascadiance]

35. No reason to speculate whether Mike Connell's plane wasn't an accident either...

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Killed_GOP_pilot_suspected_plane_had_1222.html

Everyone must have concluded that the reports of sabotage of his plane was crap and that he was also a crappy pilot too!

[Fred Sanders]

37. All King Air certified pilots have to have excellent skills to be certified.

The plane in question in the crash:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Piper_PA-46-310P_Malibu,_Private_JP6867742.jpg

[hack89]

41. Planes crash all the time from pilot error

because they can be decent pilots and still get in a situation that is beyond their abilities to get out of.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

63. Not so much.

The pilot in command was mediocre at best and had a habit of relinquishing controls to his co-pilots. Other pilots that flew with him said they couldn't gauge the Captain's skills because he didn't like to handle the controls. A couple pilots remarked it was like flying solo when flying with him - he even delegated tasks that should have gone to the non-flying pilot (radio communications etc.).

The co pilot on this flight was relatively very low hours and had a history of inadequate speed/power management on approaches.

It was a very bad combination.

[Yakob]

25. Very sad. RIP.

This is very eery for me since I used to flight instruct out of the Dubuque airport.

http://www.kcrg.com/subject/news/plane-crash-in-key-west-20141014

This article says he had to "go missed" and abandon his first approach and make a second approach, presumably because of the low clouds and heavy rain that Dubuque probably had last night (I don't live there anymore but here in Wisconsin we had heavy rain and very low clouds for most of the night). That makes it especially eery for me since I had to go missed on the approach to DBQ on a rainy night almost exactly two years ago on a flight with a student.

It seems insensitive to speculate about what might have happened, and inappropriate before the NTSB investigates. It's hard not to get suspicious, though, with the senate race there being so close. Whatever happened, a very sad accident but I am glad no one on the ground was hurt.

[James48]

42. This is the accident aircraft:

N9126V



And here is the flight profile of the accident flight last night:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N9126V

Flightaware shows only one approach, and a fairly rapid descent rate of -600 feet per minute at 2,100 feet, at 00:03 hours.

The next radar return does not indicate a height.

Elevation of Dubuque airport is 1033 feet at that runway, and the minimum height is supposed to be 1,680 feet. If he really was descending at -600 feet per minute at 2,100 feet, it is easy to see why he could have overshot and flew right into the ground.

Here is VOR runway 36 approach. Don't know if that is what he was flying, bu it makes sense direction wise.
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1410/00923V36.PDF

[Kalidurga]

26. It probably was an accident

however, I can totally understand why people are suspicious. They should be it's not like Republicans haven't earned it.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

28. Who needs all that government meddling into airplane inspections anyway?

[kickysnana]

33. +1 Occured to me also.

[villager]

40. So how many votes was he drawing from Ernst?

Lucky Repubs, always benefiting by all these "accidents" around campaign time...

[Mister Nightowl]

44. The absence of the Libertarian candidate benefits Ernst

Just sayin'

[murielm99]

46. I found very little news about this today.

I did a Google search, and the news about the crash is out there, but it is getting very little attention. I watched MSNBC this afternoon, and saw nothing.

Conspiracy theories aside, this should be a more important story. I don't care how little support he had, the man was running for the U.S. Senate.

[TomCADem]

48. Odd Given That It Really Helps The GOP In A Contested Race

You would expect more coverage talking about the impact of the death on the outcome of the Senate race.

[J_J_]

54. Flashback:Republican IT guy set to testify in a case alleging election tampering dies in plane crash

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025659365

just thought I'd mention it.....