Task force launched to review Stand Your Ground law after Trayvon Martin shooting

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Miami Herald

Posted on Tuesday, 04.03.12
Task force launched to review Stand Your Ground law after Trayvon Martin shooting

BY TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA
[e-mail]

Sen. Chris Smith, frustrated by what he calls slow movement by Gov. Rick Scott after the shooting death of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin, is launching a task force to review the controversial law at the center of the case.

“Instead of waiting on the governor to act, I’ve decided to lead in the state of Florida,” the Fort Lauderdale Democrat said. “I’ve assembled a task force to look at the controversial Stand Your Ground law.”

Gov. Scott has created a task force to review Stand Your Ground, but has said the group will not convene until after the investigation into the Trayvon Martin shooting is completed.

~snip~
“It’s time to get to work,” said Smith, who believes the Stand Your Ground law can be examined independent of the Trayvon case. “We have a governor who ran on getting to work, but he wants to wait to work."




Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/03/2729269/task-force-launched-to-review.html#storylink=cpy

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Now. Not later.

[onehandle]

2. Stand Your Ground is as responsible for this murder as Zimmerman is.

However, I have mixed feelings about diving into this insane law right now as well.

[Baitball Blogger]

3. It's an election year.

There may not be a later.

[leftyohiolib]

27. maybe more so george the killer may not have felt so enabled to kill w/o this law

and therefore no murder

[Johnson20]

4. Good

but lets wait until all the emotion has subsided.

[JDPriestly]

11. No. This law needs to be changed before yet another fool

thinks he will enjoy immunity if he takes his gun on a Neighborhood Watch foray.

[ObamaFTW2012]

35. I think you misunderstand the basic problem

It isn't that a man was carrying a gun. Millions of us do. It's that he decided to murder a black kid and then try to hide behind a law that really offers no legal protection to murderers.

All the SYG laws do is negate any duty to retreat when threatened in a public place where you have a legal right to be, and then protect you from overzealous prosecutors if you do need to defend yourself. That's it.

[bongbong]

36. Really?

> ll the SYG laws do is negate any duty to retreat when threatened in a public place where you have a legal right to be, and then protect you from overzealous prosecutors if you do need to defend yourself. That's it.

No, that's not it. Zimmerman's lawyer may use SYG as a "defense", and SYG laws have been used as an excuse to murder dozens of innocent people since ALEC ordered repig legislators to pass SYG laws.

[ObamaFTW2012]

41. Please cite specific cases.

I would like to read up on them.

[bongbong]

45. Here ya go

Here is a list. Take your pick:

http://www.google.com/search?q=syg+murders

[ObamaFTW2012]

51. Hurray for you!

You have mastered basic Google skills. What you have failed to do is cite specific cases to support your position. Try again.

[JDPriestly]

48. Self-defense is a defense.

You have to be accused of a crime, prosecuted before you should be able to invoke and prove that you had a legitimate defense. The law is extremely dangerous because it emboldens people to shoot when they could avoid killing.

This Trayvon Martin case is not the first and won't be the last wanton killing before the law is amended or done away with everywhere. It is a flawed concept.

You kill. You should go to trial unless the self-defense was so obvious that even the victim's parents would understand.

[ObamaFTW2012]

53. Now there's a reasonable position

Thanks for not joining other posters here with their "The NRA supports murder" BS.

[DonCoquixote]

5. Rick Scott is not a Governor

His whole job is to open whatever is left of Florida to as many corporate rapists as possible, therefore actions like this are needed, where we actually have to work around our government to do the duty of the government.

[onehandle]

6. Rick Scott is not a Human

[florida08]

13. holey socks..that scared me

[jonthebru]

7. Trayvon may have been 17 years old.

But if he had known that the stupid racist jerk who murdered him was not even going to get arrested he would have taken a different tact in the situation.

[bongbong]

16. Blaming the victim

I bet Trayvon would've decided to be born with white skin!

[NOLALady]

34. What do you think

Trayvon should have done to avoid being killed?

Walk away? He tried that.

Run away? Tried that also.

Walked in the rain without the hoodie covering his head?

Not going to the store in the first place?

What? What should he have done differently?

[Harriety]

8. This law should have never been passed to begin with.

Now we have a big fat mess. The Repubs in office will not over turn it, and even with a task force the only thing that could help is voting them out of office and then getting rid of it.

[ObamaFTW2012]

9. If what I have heard so far is correct,

The SYG law will not be an available defense to Mr. Zimmerman when this goes to trial, despite the initial claim by the Sanford PD that Mr. Zimmerman is protected under this law. I am inclined the believe that this will hold true, given Trayvon's cries for help on the 911 audio (hardly the sounds of a threatening person) and the author of the SYG law publicly stating that this act clearly violates both the spirit and the language of the law.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with the law. I think in this particular case the problem is in how it has been applied, and the resolution is to set some judicial precedent and follow up with implementing police procedures to properly enforce the law.

Regardless of criminal proceedings, the civil suit will be sure to thoroughly punish Mr. Zimmerman for his crime. Trayvon's family will own him.

[HooptieWagon]

14. The Tampa Bay Times has recently reported on several instances where an armed person

has pursued an individual, confronted them, escalated the dispute, then shot them. Bizarrely, SYG was ruled applicable. Whatever its intent, SYG is being inconsistant in its application, and should be examined closely and either clarified or eliminated. Proof that letting NRA lobbyists write laws is a bad idea.

[ObamaFTW2012]

15. I agree

with your third sentence. I'm kind of "meh" on your fourth sentence, as laws are first presented to legislatures (as bills) only by legislators, not lobbyists, nor concerned citizens, nor Santa Claus. I am not particularly fond of the NRA (they mail way too much junk) but many of their political activities are, in my opinion, good for society. They are advocates for civil rights, like the ACLU and the NAACP.

[bongbong]

17. Huh?

> as laws are first presented to legislatures (as bills) only by legislators, not lobbyists, nor concerned citizens, nor Santa Claus.

You've never heard of ALEC. They send laws and the wording of those laws they want passed to repig legislatures, and the repig legislature in question always passes it. Following orders from billionaires is a long-time, well-known characteristic of repigs.

[ObamaFTW2012]

30. Come on now

Everyone knows that politicians across the entire political spectrum introduce legislation on behalf of their ideological allies, whether it's from Republicans and the NRA (or the Koch brothers) or Democrats and MoveOn.Org (or George Soros). It's all political gamesmanship. Regardless of who writes the actual text of the bill, if it is ever to become law it must be introduced on the floor by a legislator.

Regarding the NRA in particular, they are (arguably) the most powerful lobbying group because they represent a large and motivated body of voters. A similarly large group would be AARP - they can really change an election if you piss them off.

[bongbong]

37. COme on is right

Another False Equivalence "argument". Yawn-o-DELUXE. Tell me when a Democratic person has introduced a bill that ended up letting many cases of cold-blooded, savage murders of innocent people go unpunished.

[ObamaFTW2012]

42. Please cite specific cases.

I don't really think you can, but I'm willing to listen.

[bongbong]

46. H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S

Oh boy! You're in such a rush to defend guns that you didn't even read the post you just responded to! Here is my post that you responded to:

> Tell me when a Democratic person has introduced a bill that ended up letting many cases of cold-blooded, savage murders of innocent people go unpunished.

Your response?

> Please cite specific cases.

You are hilarious in your twists to defend your beloved guns!!!

[-..__...]

49. Does a Democratic person who introduces SYG legislation satisfy your requirement...

even though it has yet to be passed?

Is it your opinion that any SYG legislation is automatically going to result in "letting many cases of cold-blooded, savage murders of innocent people go unpunished"?

‘Stand your ground’ coming to Bay State?
Senator aims for Mass. version of controversial law cited in Florida slaying

State Sen. Stephen Brewer has the gun-control lobby fuming over his proposal for a “stand your ground” self-defense law — a bill that would bring to Massachusetts the same legal protection that has activists nationwide screaming for the arrest of a Florida man who gunned down an unarmed teen last month.

“It’s an excuse to kill without accountability. We don’t need it in Massachusetts, and shame on Steve Brewer for proposing it,” said John Rosenthal, the head of Stop Handgun Violence. “Look no farther than Trayvon Martin.”

Martin, 17, was shot to death last month while walking through a neighborhood in Sanford, Fla., north of Orlando. Police have not charged the gunman, George Zimmerman, because they say it appears he acted in self-defense.

Florida in 2005 passed a “stand your ground” law, allowing people to use deadly force against attackers in public. It is one of 21 states that have such a law.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view/20220325stand_your_ground_coming_to_bay_state_senator_aims_for_mass_version_of_controversial_law_cited_in_fla_slaying/srvc=home&position=0

FYI... Senator Brewer has been sponsoring this legislation for 5 years now.

He's been a long time supporter of our 2nd amendment rights, and is rated A+ by the Gun Owners Action League...

http://www.goal.org/senateratings.html

[bongbong]

50. Here we go again

> He's been a long time supporter of our 2nd amendment rights,

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with laissez-faire gun ownership. It is about militias.

[chknltl]

26. so you believe in the way it is supposed to work?

There is no denying that the insurance industry has more than enough money to seat their own man/woman in We the Peoples congress where their first priority is the needs of the insurance industry. Technically you are right, that bought and paid for shill is a legislator.

The same can be said for the oil industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the banking industry, and your precious gun industry. In all cases, the money that places these servants of fascism in power and keeps them there ultimately comes out of We, The Peoples pockets!

Have you noticed yet how the majority of the citizenry have less and less in their pockets while the wealthy corporatists grow richer and richer? Worse, does it not bother you that We The Peoples government has stopped doing We The Peoples business and now does the business of the highest bidders? Doesn't it bother you that this rape and pillage of this once great nation is paid for by YOU?

[ObamaFTW2012]

32. There isn't enough time left in my day to address all that is wrong with society and our government

Sad.

I watch in disgust as our country devours itself. The government mostly serves those with the deepest wallets, regardless of political affiliation. The pendulum swings back and forth, and the rich laugh their asses off while I work 80 hours a week.

[zipplewrath]

29. Presented, not written

The bills are presented, but the bills are written by the NRA. They shouldn't be. They should be written by people with a balanced interest in the various aspects of the intended laws and those at whom they are aimed. Otherwise you get this kind of bad law with all of its uninteneded consequences.

It's how we got prohibition and all of its ills. We let lobbiests write it and then we got stuck with it.

(By the by the NRA models its political strategy on the same methodology that was used by the temperance movement in getting Prohibition passed. NOT on the model used by the SCLC with civil rights nor ACLU in defending the Bill of Rights).

[ObamaFTW2012]

33. Under what model

are the anti-gun laws formed? I have yet to see a pro-gun law that wasn't enacted in response to a gun control effort.

[bongbong]

38. Look harder

You're not looking very hard. ALEC has been giving orders to repigs for a while now, with no gun-control laws being introduced.

[ObamaFTW2012]

43. Show me.

[bongbong]

47. OK

Search for "ALEC gives orders to republicans to destroy gun-control laws".

[ObamaFTW2012]

52. I didn't ask for directions.

I can work a Google just fine.

[zipplewrath]

44. The NRA dreams them up

SYG wasn't a response to a gun control effort. It was dreamed up by the NRA folks when they didn't like court decisions that convicted gun users after killing people "unnecessarily". It was a reaction in essence to the "duty to retreat" concept that the courts had developed over the years.

One can make the case that those decisions had gone too far. There was alot of silliness about people dragging folks back over door steps and the like. But the end result has been a law that now encourages an "ability to pursue". As soon as you stick the gun in your pocket, you've chosen to understand the law in a certain amount of detail, and one should have some additional burden placed upon you for determining the appropriate use of the weapon.

The intent, and accomplishment, of the SYG law was to actually reduce the responsibility down as far as possible.

Their legislative model is to write the text of legislation, and then work as much as possible to avoid input from other interested parties, avoiding to the greatest extent possible any hearings, or opportunities for amendments, and then get it passed through intense lobbying efforts for specific legislators. Consensus building is NOT in the plan.

[Ecumenist]

20. Exactly, That's the scarey part of things. It's crazy.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. You are correct the that SYG is not applicable

it is due to Zimmerman's failure to meet the basic requirement for the use of deadly force in self defense.

[JDPriestly]

10. Here is my problem with this law.

The law permitting force in self-defense uses the term "reasonably believes." The law has established a test for reasonableness which more or less what a reasonable person would do under similar circumstances. Normally, it is the job of the jury (or at least a court) to apply that test objectively and determine what is "reasonable."

The Florida law granting immunity to a person exercising self-defense under Section 776.012 doesn't say whether it is changing or doing away with the test of reasonableness or maybe permitting whoever survives a claimed killing in self-defense to subjectively apply the test.

That is why the law cannot work. It could, under certain circumstances, simply permit a criminal to decide he was reasonably afraid for his life and walk away without so much as a trial or an arrest. Yet, very often that issue of reasonableness needs to be decided by a jury -- as in the Zimmerman case.

776.012?Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1)?He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2)?Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.

776.032?Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1)?A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2)?A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3)?The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
History.—s. 4, ch. 2005-27.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html

[d_legendary1]

23. I'll have to remember that

the next time I get in an argument with a Republican.

If you repeat a lie often enough, then you're a Republican.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. You are missing several key points

"Reasonable man" is not up to the person who committed the actions being reviewed. Those include the police, State attorney and in some cases a jury (if it gets that far).

Florida SYG did not change the basic burden in FL law that deadly force requires the reasonable belief that GBI or death was imminent.

I do not believe that Zimmerman met the burden of reasonable fear of GBI/death. That means SYG is inapplicable and Zimmerman should be in jail

[Iliyah]

12. Nothing is going to happened

cause guns = profit, eff the human toll.

[bongbong]

18. Rename SYG

Rename SYG to JJE, as in the "Judge Jury Executioner Law".

[Randomthought]

19. I've been calling it

007 License to Kill law

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Prior post in GD

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002511195

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. I see this as PR for the state senator who is up for election this year

[leftyohiolib]

28. if trayvon's death stops this law or changes it enough to stop further murders then perhaps he'll

not have died in vain. i know that wont be much comfort but perhaps his death could save future deaths of kids.

[Kolesar]

31. Here comes DU's mouthy gun enthusiasts

It's a civil right, uh,
I don't want to leave my gun in the car.
The crime rate is going down, but I need a gun more than ever,
etc, ad nauseum

[bongbong]

39. ain't that the truth!

[ancianita]

40. Let's get the task force to review 'conceal and carry' law, while they're at it.

'Stand your ground' law competes with the other rights of other citizens to be secure in their persons, as well.

'Conceal and carry' should be reconsidered by this or another task force, for that matter. Conceal and Carry should be prohibited in all the 23 states that now allow it. 'Open Carry' should be mandatory for all gun toters -- the law of the land. If one is going to carry a lethal weapon, it should be carried openly so that all other citizens have a right to "life, liberty and the pursuit...."

No one should have to walk around in these states afraid that some armed, cowardly idiot is going to fearfully react to someone's 'sudden move' or mouthing off, or take offense where none is intended, and then shoot someone under the cover of this 'stand your ground' bullshit. Only cowards conceal lethal weapons.