Ukraine Says It 'Destroyed' Part Of Russian Armed Convoy

[Purveyor]

Source: USA TODAY

Doug Stanglin, USA TODAY 11:40 a.m. EDT August 15, 2014

Ukrainian troops on Friday "destroyed" part of what Kiev says was a Russian armed convoy that crossed into Ukraine around the same time as a truck convoy of humanitarian aid reached the border, according to Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for Ukraine's National Security Defense Council.

"Appropriate actions were undertaken and a part of it nolonger exist," Lysenko told reporters.

At the same time, krainian President Petro Poroshenko told British Prime Minister David Cameron on Friday that a "significant" part of the Russian armored column had been destroyed, according to the Ukrainian leader's website, Reuters reports.

The convoy of some two-dozen armored personnel carrier slipped across the border early Friday.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/08/15/ukraine-russian-convoy/14097225/

[Fred Sanders]

1. Grain of salt with your vodka and press release, comrades?

[TT_Progress]

25. Yes. The Guardian wrote the original misleading story

(the units they saw were border patrol heading into a secured buffer zone, not into Ukraine, which is why there was no "sneaky" behavior, they had all their lights on and were not trying to hide from cars behind them. Really sloppy and potentially dangerous "reporting".)

Kyiv capitalized on it.

Which is why there are no pictures.

The telegraph reporter was more honest in the story itself (though using a similar sensational headline).

The convoy, which included at least 23 vehicles, appeared to be waiting until sunset near a refugee camp just outside Donetsk, before moving towards the crossing without turning off headlights or making any other attempt to conceal itself.

While it was not immediately clear whether all of that convoy crossed the border, The Telegraph did see a substantial number of vehicles pass through check point (my note: Not border entry, checkpoint to a border DMZ) manned by gunmen after shadowing the convoy down narrow country lanes near the frontier.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11035401/Russian-armoured-vehicles-and-military-trucks-cross-border-into-Ukraine.html

[Adsos Letter]

2. Adding fuel to the fire. n/t

[Purveyor]

5. Keep poking the 'Bear' and see what it gets you, indeed. Shouldn't be long

now...

[NutmegYankee]

7. If the bear is sending invasion troops into another country, they deserve what happens to them. Nt

[ballyhoo]

8. Not a doubt what's about to

happen--if the story is true. I don't know Bloomberg news.

[Purveyor]

10. Google Ukraine and attack. Most all the major wires are carrying this report.

[ballyhoo]

12. Okay. Thanks. Sounds right. Hedge funds

selling naked shorts to keep gold prices down.

[TT_Progress]

26. The story is propaganda based on poor and unverified reporting

see my reply above.

Very sloppy work. I have followed Shuan Walkers reporting for a while, he has a definite bias. The telegraph reporter with him was more honest in relating what was seen, but likely the editors added the sensationalist title. Terribly sloppy and dangerous.

But it is an information and propaganda war which is why I think these stories are not given quite as much concern as some months ago.

[TwilightGardener]

9. Sorry, just not that afraid of "the bear".

[ballyhoo]

13. Oh, really, 1498 ICBMS's

doesn't scare you? When Putin has had enough, everyone will know it.

[Adsos Letter]

14. You think Putin would go nuclear over Ukraine?

You think he's suicidal?

[ballyhoo]

17. No, but it will be an event that leads to another event and so on

and so forth. It is always the same.

[dipsydoodle]

23. Not in Europe.

[TwilightGardener]

24. You're saying the US is going to get nuked? Over Ukraine?

Are these threats the new talking points going out today?

[TwilightGardener]

15. Putinistas are as psychotic as he is. A sad, insecure leader of a sad

insecure country, always threatening nuclear warfare just like North Korea. Fucking pathetic.

[ballyhoo]

18. Who makes Petro Poroshenko look redundant.

[TT_Progress]

28. Given that tactical nukes and "first strikes" are no longer "off the table"

(unlike in cold war I) it is indeed an accurate observation that there is always a risk of unintended consequences or mistakes.

I don't know how old you are but there are well documented very close calls that occurred during the cold war, and that was when their was when a missle strike was more remote with time to analyze and correct mistaken impressions.

I don't think that can be fairly charactorized as "putin loving". Rather it is rational and researched reasoning. I have no doubt the US has specialists thinking out exactly these kinds of things and I don't think you would call them "putinistas"?

[TwilightGardener]

29. That's Russian scare-mongering. "Watch out or we'll nuke you!"

That's their go-to defense against a superior US/NATO force. But NATO isn't attacking them, nobody's invading them, they are the aggressors here, so it's a little silly.

[former9thward]

31. When has Russia threatened nuclear war?

Since you have stated that at least twice in this thread.

[TwilightGardener]

33. Actually, that's been Russia's policy for a while--go straight for the nukes.

They've said as much, openly. They don't like the US's "global strike" plan (which is conventional) and they are very threatened by missile defense in Europe. But I'm not the one who brought up the 1400 ICBM's in this thread.

[KoKo]

36. Got a link? n/t

[TwilightGardener]

37. No, I read it a while back, sorry.

But if you Google Russian objections or response to Global Strike capabilities, you might find it.

[KoKo]

38. What I've read is that it was NATO putting missile defense up in Georgia and

Russia has been firm about no NATO presence in any of its former satellite countries... That was the issue. Putin is no fool and for him to have been threatening the US with Nuclear attack would have made him seem crazy.

Maybe what you maybe are remembering is that when we put the first sanctions on Russia that Putin did push back against our scheduled next phase nuclear disarmament talks because he felt what we did in Ukraine followed up by sanctions against Crimea annexation had made it a "tit for tat" situation between Obama/Kerry and Putin. We had sent ships into the Black sea and were doing other actions to "buzz Russia" which was a bit of a bullying tactic on our part. But he never threatened a nuclear attack.

[ballyhoo]

40. Excellent, KoKo.

[TwilightGardener]

45. No, it has nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine.

It had to do with Russian military doctrine formulated in response to increased US conventional capabilities.

[Purveyor]

43. What a 'crock of shit'. Your tripe is now on 'ignore'. Might see you around later.

bye, bye.

(don't waste a reply as this ignore is immediate)

[ballyhoo]

41. Got to watch the Poroshenkonistas...........

[IronGate]

30. Oh, really, you think Putin would launch 1498 ICBM's?

At who? The Ukrainians? The US? NATO?

[snooper2]

16. protecting the integrity of their country from the fucking asshole that Putin is

is what you meant to say right!

[Adsos Letter]

22. Ukraine has the right to defend itself against Russia

But no matter the legitimacy of the act, it is bound to fan the flames in that region.

Or not.

[TwilightGardener]

3. So...why does Russia have an armored convoy going into Ukraine?

Because it's not with the aid convoy.

[JackRiddler]

44. Why do you think this?

It's anything other than established that an armored convoy crossed the border.

[zeemike]

4. And Russia is so scared of the Kiev military now that they will not respond.

A few grains of salt there.

[ballyhoo]

6. Need substantiation of this attack. Sounds like

more imitation chocolate from the Candy Man.

[Purveyor]

11. Dow Drops Over 100 Points After Russian Convoy Attacked In Ukraine

Stocks changed direction and dropped sharply on Friday, after a report that Ukrainian artillery destroyed most of a Russian military convoy that had crossed into Ukraine.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average, wich had been climbing in the morning, fell 120 points in early afternoon trading, the S&P 500 dropped 11 points and the Nasdaq lost 22 points.

Ukrainian artillery destroyed a "significant" part of a Russian armored column that crossed into Ukraine during the night, President Petro Poroshenko told British Prime Minister David Cameron, according to the presidential website."That's the sole reason for the (stock) pullback," said Peter Boockvar, chief market analyst at The Lindsey Group.

more...

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/markets/dow-drops-over-100-points-after-russian-convoy-attacked-ukraine-n181461

[onehandle]

19. The Former Soviet Union States Are Far More Dangerous Than The Middle-East.

Reagan/Bush I FAILED when they did not demand that they surrender their nukes to us.

They were starving... dying... We had them.

Praxis exploded.



All of our greatest problems are the result of voting GOP.

[Igel]

32. Ukraine did give up its nukes.

Recently they've talked about re-nuclearizing their military, but even their own experts consider that to be rhetoric. It would be expensive and time-consuming to do so, and they have neither time nor money to work at it. And possibly not the expertise.

Empires keep that kind of skill set close to their centers.

[former9thward]

34. The 1930s are calling.

Russians were never "starving" or anything close to it.

[bemildred]

20. Russia says Ukraine forces seeking to disrupt its humanitarian mission

(Reuters) - Russian on Friday accused Ukraine of attempting to disrupt a Russian humanitarian aid mission to eastern Ukraine and called for a ceasefire in the region to allow for the deliveries.

"We draw attention to the sharp intensification of military action by Ukrainian forces with the apparent aim to stop the path, agreed on with Kiev, of a humanitarian convoy across the Russia-Ukraine border," the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko earlier said artillery destroyed a "significant" part of a Russian armored column that crossed into Ukraine during the night.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/15/us-urkaine-crisis-fighting-aid-idUSKBN0GF1DW20140815

[Igel]

35. Russia says lots of things.

The hard part is to know which are accurate. As a general rule, that's a difficult proposition.

Last Tuesday they had a route and acceptance of everything by the ICRC and Ukraine. Except that they didn't.

By Wednesday night things had been worked out. Of course, the ICRC was waiting to hear what was on the trucks in detail (the Russians as of about 5 PM Ukraine time--that's about 9 am Houston time--still hadn't heard this. But everything was set to go at a Khar'kov border crossing. Then the convoy veered east at Kursk, went to Voronezh, and stopped for a while.

Things are always worked out. But not worked out. That kind of anti-information (when it contacts actual information, there's mutual annihilation) provides lots of working room for the Russians.


Luhans'k has been gradually surrounded for the last two weeks or so. That's been the plan. Surround, slice up the territory, and then force either surrender, retreat, or work at handling each little section in isolation. By last Sunday or Monday there was a narrow isthmus of rebel-held territory and there's been fighting straight along to take that narrow strip. It was last Tuesday that suddenly this humanitarian mission became urgent.

The city was cut off by any major road, by most reports, yesterday, in taking a little berg called Novosvetlovka. At that point the mission became even more urgent and there has to be a ceasefire.

Today there are a couple of unconfirmed reports that Ukr troops have reached "the city center", whatever that's going to mean. I doubt that will hold for long, even if the report is true. The Ukr forces are saying that the entire city's become an armed fortress residential areas and industrial areas alike, and the rebels aren't acting amateurish. (If so, it would explain where a part of the nightly resupply's gone.) There's also an earlier report by a Russian reporter Smirnov that the Ukr troops reached the regional medical center, which actually is in the SE portion of the city. From Novosvetlovka to the medical center is a fairly straight shot--mostly open ground, then a set of mostly residental areas separated from the medical school and medical center by either industrial or green space (I can't tell from the map). The Ukr might fight for that location since it'll help cut down on the artillery fire of the Luhans'k airport, just south of the city.

Anyway, as soon as the report arrived that the Ukr forces had entered the city, the Russians started demanding a ceasefire. With the absurd claim that the Ukrainians are trying to take the city before the humanitarian aid can arrive. (As opposed to having the humanitarian aid delivery interrupt what may be the final assault. Problem is, if you only read the Russian media every place taken by the Ukrainians has had massacres, purges, mass incarcerations, so trying to stop this makes sense. Then again, Russia says lots of things. The hard part is to know which are accurate. As a general rule, that's a difficult proposition. Not in this case.)

Helping to make the entire matter even more urgent is that 250 tons of Ukrainian aid reached the "state" today and over 1/3 has been turned over to the Red Cross. So the Ukrainian aid from "fascist" regions of the country might well reach Luhans'k before the "patriotic" aid from Russia. Russia's now hamstrung, since it's vouched for the behavior of the rebels publicly, saying that they've gotten guarantees from the rebels to allow aid distributed by the Red Cross to be distributed without impediment or danger.

[bemildred]

39. I have noticed they have a cavalier attitude about facts.

Not so much active dissembling as just not giving a shit. People ask questions, you give tham an answer, they should be grateful you take the time. Perhaps that is an effect of the long years of Soviet life, when observable veracity was secondary to the party line.

But of course I see the same things here, few if any in Congress, for example, care even for plausibility, let alone anything reasonable people could agree on as true.

[bemildred]

21. Russia says continuing talks with Ukraine on humanitarian aid

(Reuters) - Russia said on Friday its foreign minister was pursuing talks with his Ukrainian counterpart on agreeing a Russian humanitarian aid mission to eastern Ukraine, where the government is fighting pro-Russian rebels.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov spoke by telephone with his Ukrainian counterpart Pavlo Klimkin on Friday and "continued to discuss practical issues related to the provision of humanitarian aid to the southeast Ukraine," the Russian foreign ministry said in a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/15/us-ukraine-crisis-ministers-idUSKBN0GF1GI20140815

[saidsimplesimon]

27. Tsar Putin is misbehaving on an international level.

True, he is being poked(mildly imho compared to what he is giving).

What we need are international leaders with some grasp on conflict resolution. (Most people say I'm a Dreamer.)

[KoKo]

42. AP & APF REPORTING: "Russian defence ministry denies military convoy entered Ukraine"

Russia denies its vehicles destroyed in Ukraine
Associated Press
By ALEXANDER ROSLYAKOV and JIM HEINTZ 37 minutes ago

Throughout the eastern crisis that erupted in April, there have been consistent allegations that Russia is fomenting or directing the rebellion. Moscow rejects the allegations and the high-profile aid convoy could be aimed, in part, at portraying Russia as interested in cooling the conflict. Russian President Vladimir Putin appeared to cultivate that perception in a Thursday speech in which he said Russia hopes for peace in Ukraine.

It was not clear what Russia could hope to gain by sending in a military column while world attention was trained on its efforts to get the aid convoy into eastern Ukraine.

But some foreign journalists reported that Russian armored personnel carriers were seen crossing into Ukraine on Thursday night. On Friday, a statement on Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko's website said "the given information was trustworthy and confirmed because the majority of the vehicles were destroyed by Ukrainian artillery at night."

NATO secretary-general Anders Fogh Rasmussen also said Russian military vehicles had entered Ukraine, but he gave no specifics.

In Moscow, a spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry insisted that no Russian military vehicles were destroyed because none had crossed into Ukraine. Yet Britain said it summoned Russian Ambassador Alexander Yakovenko in to clarify reports of the Russian incursion.
https://news.yahoo.com/12-russian-armored-vehicles-join-aid-convoy-073246864.html

---------------------------------------
Russian defence ministry denies military convoy entered Ukraine
AFP
41 minutes ago

Moscow (AFP) - The Russian defence ministry denied Friday that it had sent a military convoy into Ukraine after officials in Kiev said they destroyed part of the armoured column.

Major-General Igor Konashenkov said "there exists no Russian military convoy that supposedly crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border...", but better that Ukraine's armed forces "destroy phantoms instead of refugees or their own soldiers," he added, according to Russian news agencies.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko told British Prime Minister David Cameron that government artillery had destroyed a "considerable part" of a small military convoy that entered the country, the presidency said in a statement earlier Friday.

NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen backed reports of the "Russian incursion" after British media said it had seen the convoy of some 20 vehicles cross the border.

Konashenkov lashed out at Western officials launching accusations based on “fantasies” that journalists are reporting on social media sites.

“It appears this discussing for days some post on Twitter instead of seeing the mass killing of peaceful civilians going on in the centre of Europe due to the result of large-scale shelling of cities is becoming a serious and widespread disease, or even epidemic,” he was quoted as saying by Russian news agencies.

Meanwhile, in a call with his US counterpart Chuck Hagel, Russia's Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu criticised Ukraine's use of heavy weapons against civilians.

Shoigu expressed Russia's view of the "unacceptability of (Ukrainian) government forces using military aircraft and heavy weapons including rocket launchers against peaceful civilians and civil infrastructure" in eastern Ukraine, according to a defence ministry statement cited by RIA-Novosti news agency.