Arkansas court overturns ban on teacher-student sex

[Julian Englis]

Source: Reuters

The Arkansas Supreme Court struck down a state law on Thursday that banned teachers from having sex with students under age 21, overturning a sexual assault conviction against a former teacher who had a consensual relationship with an 18-year-old student.

In a 4-3 decision, the court vacated the conviction against David Paschal, a former teacher in the Elkins School District in northern Arkansas, because the girl was legally an adult during the relationship.

For about five months, Paschal, then 36, had a consensual sexual relationship with the female student at Elkins High School, according to court documents. The girl had been a student of Paschal in tenth and eleventh grades, and she later became his classroom aide and offered to babysit his children.

The two began their affair in 2009, when she was a senior, and Paschal was arrested the following year.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/30/us-usa-crime-arkansas-idUSBRE82T00G20120330

[obamanut2012]

1. It's the correct ruling

The teacher should have been fired, for obvious reasons, but the student was an adult in a consensual relationship, and the teacher should NOT have been arrested for sexual assault. I thought that charge was outrageous when I first heard about it.

The guy's teaching career would have been over anyway.

[SemperEadem]

2. so, are they going to also overturn

doctors having sex with their patients, too while they're at it? What happened to the notion that a person in a position of authority and influence should not be taking advantage of a barely legal adult just because they've got the sweaty thighs for young flesh?

The two began their affair in 2009, when she was a senior, and Paschal was arrested the following year.

In 2011, he was convicted of four counts of second-degree sexual assault and one count of bribing a witness at a jury trial last year. He was sentenced to 30 years in prison.

Clearly, he thought what he did was wrong if he was tampering with witnesses. If he and what he was doing was innocent, he wouldn't have needed to bribe anyone.

[cstanleytech]

6. Those are two different issues, he will probably still do jail time for the bribery charge

though it probably wont be a 30 year sentence.

[RoccoR5955]

9. And here I thought that south of the Mason-Dixon line...

Bribery was mandatory... As long as your skin is lily white.

[canucksawbones]

15. professional associations standards and laws are different

in Canada, having sex with a patient will cause a temporary loss of license and potential practice restrictions in the future, but it is not illegal.

The province's college of medicine deals with patient doctor sex, not the courts

[Xithras]

19. Doctors having sex with patients isn't usually illegal either.

Unless a prosecutor can prove that the the doctor used his position to coerce the patient into sex, that act isn't typically illegal.

It is, however, considered a gross ethical violation and may lead to a doctors medical license being revoked. Having consensual sex with a patient can be a career ender.

Generally, I think that student/teacher relationships should be treated the same way. No jail, but you'll lose your teaching credential if caught.

Even here at my college, the rules are simple. No instructor may date any student that he/she is currently teaching, or has taught in the past (while the student is enrolled). Doing so will nearly always lead to some sort of discipline, and may lead to termination. Because this is a field heavily dependent on reputation, that kind of thing can result in permanent unemployment.

[BiggJawn]

37. My college is even more strict.

STAFF may not have relationships with students.

The Janitor can't date a student.

[Ecumenist]

3. WTF??!! Great, this will only serve to reinforce that stereotype of inbreeding, hillbilly

paedophiliac type craziness that people hold about people in that part of the country.

[cstanleytech]

5. Did you even bother to read it? This isnt about sex between a 29 year old teacher and a 9 year old.

Its about a teacher who had sex with an 18 year old student.....sheesh.

[JoePhilly]

11. A teacher has power over a student ... what part of that is hard to understand?

[cstanleytech]

14. If she was forced its already covered under existing rape and assault laws...hard to understand?

[JoePhilly]

16. In a situation like this "force" is not physical ... its subtle.

A teacher can easily let a student know that if they "consent", their grades will improve.

And they can do so in very subtle ways. Ways in which the student could never prove force.

[cstanleytech]

17. Yes a teacher could but the question before the court was if the law itself was wrong and

the court decided that if someones 18 then they can make up their own minds and its not up to the state to make it for them.
Mind you its odd for the court to say its not ok for an 21 age limit here but its ok for an age limit of 21 to buy liquor but thats the way it is.

[provis99]

20. by that standard, all sex is forced.

Stupid.

[JoePhilly]

25. Ummm ... who are you having sex with ... and what are you trading for it?

A Teacher is in a position of authority and can use that authority over the student.

This is why most companies have rules against the boss sleeping with a subordinate.

While it is true that an 18 year old can make their own decisions, if that decision has negative outcomes because the person in authority has power, then its wrong.

In other words ... a cop can pull an 18 year old girl over, threaten her with a ticket, and then offer her the ability to "work" her way out of the situation via sex.

Sure, she gets to "decide" ... but is this how things should work?

[cstanleytech]

26. And then the cop could be fired as well as the police department sued in civil court not to mention

there are laws called civil rights which would have been broken so the copy potentially is still looking at jail time which is why you so rarely hear of any cases where a police officer does that.

[Volaris]

28. yeah I tend to agree with you... if your a 36 year adult, and you just KNOW

that you're in love with that 18-year old in your third hour, AND your lucky enough to have her believe that she loves you back, don't you would think you would possess the patience to at least WAIT TILL THE END OF THE SCHOOL YEAR......by June 15th you can have all the "relationship" with that legal adult you want, with the BONUS that you won't have to destroy your career to do it.

[Codeine]

24. They were unrelated and she is an adult.

They may or may not be hillbillies, however -- the article does not indicate whether they are of Appalachian/Ozarkian heritage or not.

[RKP5637]

4. Let's see, at 21 I had just graduated from college. Another stupid law gone. n/t

[SDjack]

7. The Arkansas legislature should instead

focus on protecting the little children, esp. from their kin.

[Angry Dragon]

8. ...............

[Swede Atlanta]

10. Agree on the dismissal but pleased about the court decision.......

There must be no legal proscription on consensual relations between two ADULT persons. Any actions during the relations that result in physical or emotional harm should be subject to the penalties provided for that behavior.

I am not opposed and support schools that prohibit as a condition of employment no intimate relationships between teachers (or any staff for that matter) and students. There is a definite need to define a line of demarcation between those two groups.

But what two consenting adults choose to do in the privacy of their own space, subject to violation of other laws such as battery, etc., must not be subject to governmental intrusion.

[JoePhilly]

12. A teacher has power over a student. As such, consent is at question.

That is the point.

You might "consent" to sex with a teacher, because they have told you that to do otherwise would jeopardize your grades.

But that isn't really consent.

[freshwest]

13. No mention that he'd been grooming her for this. Nice get out of jail free card. Clever.

Oh, and n/t.

[Xithras]

18. I agree with the court on this.

It's a breach of professional ethics, but consensual sex between adults shouldn't be a criminal matter.

If you're a teacher and sleep with a student, you are simply demonstrating that you don't have the ethical fortitude to be a teacher. Fire them and blacklist them. But jail? Over consensual sex between adults? I'll never be onboard with that.

[sulphurdunn]

21. No teacher should have sexual

relationships with a student anymore than anyone in a position of power and authority over another should. Period.

[cstanleytech]

27. No, they shouldnt but legislating morality with to heavy a hand rarely pays off.

Besides which what if it was the student who seduced the teacher? Should he student go to jail for 30 years as well for breaking the law or should they be allowed to walk?
Not saying that happened in this case just that it could in others.

[sulphurdunn]

29. I don't believe consensual

sex between consenting adults should ever be treated as a criminal act, although it should remain grounds for dismissal from a job when having done so violates the terms of an employment contract or cultural norm.

[cstanleytech]

33. Agreed which is why the court stepped in as it should when the legislature oversteps itself. nt

[24601]

31. You mean like the most powerful person in the world and an unpaid intern? Sounds like a slam

against those from R-Kan-saw.

[sulphurdunn]

32. That's right.

Had he met her in a bar it would have been fine, but she worked under him (pun intended) and that's not fine. Since diddling interns doesn't rise to the level of an impeachable offense, and since there are no professional norms about who a President can or cannot fuck in a consensual adult relationship, he gets to keep his job at the cost of his reputation.

[neovente]

22. terminally stupid...

and a career ender but not illegal as far as I see. If only all the teacher/student affairs were over 18!!

[lunatica]

23. So what is your stand on this Julian Englis?

Are you from Arkansas?

[madokie]

30. Its about time they wake the fuck up

[JVS]

34. Consenting adults, totally fine.

[AnOhioan]

35. The court made the correct call

[Comrade Grumpy]

36. Professional sanctions are appropriate; criminal ones are not.

These are two adults in the eyes of the law.