Terrorists fire rockets from Gaza hospital
Source: ynetnews
The IDF Spokesperson's Unit released footage documenting Hamas terrorists launching rockets from the al Wafa Hospital compound in Gaza City's Shajaiyeh neighborhood. The IDF said that after days of consideration it has begun to attack the Wafa Hospital compound. The military claimed the hospital has been a hotbed of terrorists activities, with gun and anti-tank missile fire originating from the cite. Later Wednesday, the IDF said it had killed 10 terrorists and found a tunnel which contained IDF uniforms and arms.
Israel has long claimed that Hamas and other Gaza terror groups are using civilian centers – like hospitals, mosques and schools – to launch attacks on Israel. Just last week some 20 rockets were found in an UNRWA school.
The al Wafa hospital was evacuated last week after a number of phone call warnings from the IDF. The hospital, which serves as a rehab facility had gained attention after a group of activists moved in to be alongside 17 patients could not be evacuated.
Read more: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4548760,00.html
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seveneyes
(4,631 posts)What Hamas is doing is beyond wrong.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)What is very troubling is the fact that based on the time-frame of the unification with Hamas and the end of the peace negotiations earlier this year, it appears that the Palestinians were pretending on the one hand to be negotiating for peace with Israel and were on the other hand and simultaneously or nearly simultaneously negotiating for war with Hamas.
Israel is fighting for its survival. Hamas is fighting to draw fire upon the Palestinian people. What a mess. The Palestinians need to oust Hamas, negotiate peace and as a part of the negotiations demand help to build a country instead of just a battleground.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)On Monday night, a strike hit an eight-story apartment building in downtown Gaza City — an area where Israeli officials had urged Gazans to take shelter. The building collapsed as rescue crews were inside, killing more people. The death toll, at least 13, was still being tallied.
Speaking in general, a senior Israeli military official said in a recent interview that not all civilian casualties come from strikes going astray; some take place when civilians are in places the military aims to hit.
“Not all the casualties are due to mistakes,” he said. “If Hamas are holding people inside the apartments while shooting from there, that’s one of the tragedies they are making.”
That did not appear to be the situation at the Abu Jameh home, where, survivors said, the family was gathered to break its daily Ramadan fast, a ceremonial meal, a time when Israeli military officials would have known that people were likely to be home.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/world/middleeast/questions-about-tactics-and-targets-as-civilian-toll-climbs-in-israeli-strikes.html?_r=0
Sam1
(498 posts)The Palestinians in Gaza represent absolutely no military threat to Israel.
Group punishment has not worked before and it will not work this time. The only thing that will work is good faith negotiating from both sides and that will not happen until the United States quits resupplying the Israeli military after each of the incursions into Gaza.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)are no threat to Israelis? Why the military uniforms then?
The Israelis have had to build a wall and a shield to protect themselves from Palestinian aggression. The danger is on both sides. The Israelis are just better organized, better disciplined and better armed, but they are no more angry or intent on war than are the Palestinians. The Palestinians are just not as good at fighting as the Israelis. That is the only difference.
Both sides need to realize that they need peace in order to achieve all the dreams of their peoples. And then they have to find the will and self-discipline to stop the fighting and build good peaceful societies. That is the only answer. They have to forget past wrongs and get together to make their mutual futures good. They are going to have to deal with each other one way or the other. It's either war or peace. Both sides have to choose peace. We have seen what happens when only one side chooses peace. It does not work. So they both have to choose peace. They have to negotiate.
candelista
(1,986 posts)And the Israeli government is killing off the unruly inmates.
Sam1
(498 posts)but the Palestinians are no threat to Israelis? Why the military uniforms then?"
Answer: So they (the Palestinians) can fantasize.
Question: Why are the "Israelis are just better organized, better disciplined and better armed, but ... are no more angry or intent on war than are the Palestinians?"
The Palestinians do not have the same ability to interfere with Israel's governing structures as the Israelis have to interfere with those of the Palestinians. The Palestinians are under Israeli occupation not the other way around.
The clips of IDF troops kicking the shit out of an American Palestinian Kid does not, to me, indicate a well discipline army, but rather one that has been corrupted by to much occupation duty.
The IDF is better armed the Palestinians because the U.S.A. gives them just about everything they want in the way of military equipment with no restrictions on use, while Israel embargoes the Palestinians in Gaza from everything from medical supplies to parts to repair the water wells that the IDF bombed.
Actually a negotiated peace is impossible until Israel gives up the dream of Greater Israel and quits bulldozing Palestinian homes, businesses, and olive groves and replacing them with settlements in the west bank. I really think that the end is going to come when enough of the west bank is settled by Israelis that the IDF can drive the Palestinians across the border in to Jordanian refuge camps. The Israelis may be no more angry then the Palestinians but the are, as long as the dreams of Greater Israel exist, the are more intent on war.
As long as the U.S.A. gives unqualified support to Israel there will be no peace, just ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)at the beginning of this that the Palestinians had sent a thousand rockets into Israel reaching further and further.
It does not seem likely to me that the Palestinians would be firing rockets if they truly were living in occupied territories. I think that Israel tries to keep the Palestinians from getting weapons. Israel is a democracy. Perhaps as Palestine develops better democratic institutions, there will be peace negotiations.
The Palestinians believe in the myth of greater Palestine. It never existed as a separate entity, not for very long. The whole area was for centuries under Turkish control. There are myths enough on both sides to fuel wars for a long, long time.
What is needed is a dream of Palestinians and Israelis living side by side in peace. All the supporters of Palestine don't do the Palestinians any service by supporting the unrealistic dream of realizing in the myth of a Palestinian past that was somehow so wonderful. What is needed is to encourage the realistic dream of Palestinians and Israelis negotiating for peace and for clear borders. And then work needs to be done on both sides to develop the belief that each nation can survive and do well and be a good neighbor to the other.
Taking the side of one or the other too enthusiastically is not helpful to anyone. There is only one winning solution and that is a negotiated peace with fair borders for each side.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)I find all this kind of talk to be ridiculous as well.
They have nukes and a sophisticated military.
Against a bunch of nobodies with homemade rockets.
The right-wingers inside Israel are the real villains of this piece.
perdita9
(1,144 posts)Who the hell stages military operations from a hospital? Someone who wants to get the placed bombed, that's who.
Hamas can't complain about Israel's lack of compassion when they're pulling this crap.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)But we will soon see a post justifying this in 5,4,3,2,1
7962
(11,841 posts)A lot of people seem to want more Israeli deaths to "even things out".
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)You made the statement, back it up please.
7962
(11,841 posts)Now i'm not claiming that there are posts saying explicitly that "there needs to be more Israeli deaths". But there are a lot pointing out that Israel has few deaths and therefore its not "fair".
If I knew how to do a better search, I could find more.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)It was pointing out the huge difference between deaths. It was lamenting the deaths, period. O deaths on both sides would be that poster's inclination.
He is against the war. Not for war. Against war. As everyone should be. We should all be clamoring for Peace. Warmongering is immoral.
7962
(11,841 posts)As long as Israel keeps getting hit with rocket fire on a daily basis month after month, I expect their patience to wear out at some point. As I've mentioned elsewhere, even Egypt wont let the palestinians across the border. No other Arab states are raising much hell over this operation. They're afraid of Iran & they're getting tired of the Iranian backed palestinians. Soon, the only support outside of Iran will be the hand-wringers in the West.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Amazingly so. But about what is to be expected, i guess.
7962
(11,841 posts)That would be "amazingly wrong"? To disassociate themselves from the group that says Israel has no right to exist? That their mission is to rid the Middle East of Jews? Well, this is what you get when you let madmen run your cities.
You lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas. Thankfully, Israel isnt swayed by the opinions of people who are safely sitting at home.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-hamas-tunnels.html?_r=0
Lots of well constructed tunnels into Israel. No doubt built with the money and supplies meant for the palestinian people. They lament the lack of building materials yet they can construct these massive projects 90 ft underground. But Israel should just let Hamas do what they want with no interference, in your opinion. Laughable.
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)what you claim.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)I wonder how welcome they would be in Gaza themselves, I'm sure Hamas is tolerant of all peoples, colors, creeds and sexual orientations.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)The Israeli government won't be happy until the Palestinians are all dead.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)… first member of the Hamas fan club to check in.
… you have nothing to say about rockets being launched from hospitals. How it's crystal clear how Hamas doesn't care if there own people get bombed.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Right. Dream on.
Hamas may be using the hospital as a rocket site, but what have the rockets damaged when compared to the civilian deaths and loss of infrastructure by the Palestinians?
When the IDF responds to terrorism with terrorism that makes them no better or moral than their enemy. They have become the enemy.
7962
(11,841 posts)Just because Israel has been quite successful at intercepting incoming rockets doesnt mean they are not terrorizing the population. I remember Gen Schwartzkopf, during the 1st Gulf War, speaking about a mine field after a reporter mentioned that there werent really THAT many mines: there only has to be ONE mine.
The Israelis also continually warn the "civilians" to leave the areas before they are attacked. And we have video of Hamas telling the people to stay where they are to become martyrs.
Yeah, you've picked a great team to side with. Jeeze.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Like team Edward or Jacob?
This is not sports or juvenile posturing, but real life where innocent people are dying for the madness of others.
Sure, feel free to chalk it up to 'war' where civilians get to bear the brunt of the power aspirations of their so called leaders.
Where one side's 'righteous' vengeance is terrorism to the other.
The bloodlust disgusts me no matter it's source.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)I would say the children are civilian, especially the kids on the beach that were hit. Many of the others are where they are because of their parents keeping them there. But Hamas has told people not to leave their homes and in some cases even prevents it. http://online.wsj.com/articles/thane-rosenbaum-civilian-casualties-in-gaza-1405970362
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Oh yeah. The extreme RW Israeli government!
I'm 100% certain you have no idea what a civilian is. A civilian is someone who isn't a combatant in a conflict. They're everyday people who just have the bad luck to be stuck in the middle of all the shit, and they're the ones who get killed in large numbers.
As for that crap about children whose parents keep them in their homes not being civilians. That's disgusting bullshit. Parents tend to want to protect their kids, and even those few who don't doesn't mean that them or the kids aren't civilians.
So there's no need to put scare quotes around civilians when it comes to Palestinians, another word that extremist types like putting the Quotation Marks Of Denial around.
I read a disturbing breakdown this morning of the deaths so far. Something like 3/4 of Palestinian deaths are civilians. If yr still having trouble understanding what makes someone a civilian, look at Israelis and think to yrself if they're in the military and actively participating in the attack on Gaza they're not a civilian. If they're not, then they're a civilian. Then apply the same thinking to the Palestinian people. If they're in Hamas and are actively participating in fighting with the IDF they're not a civilian. If they're not, they are a civilian.
on edit: the breakdown is here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025282888
7962
(11,841 posts)There is no uniformed military in Gaza. Any adult can be a fighter. They just loaded a DONKEY with explosives last week. They will use whoever they can. They use women. They've dressed as women. The Israeli military, as you said, is identifiable. You cant say you havent seen dozens of pictures of Hamas fighters wearing street clothes. the only thing that sets them apart is the weapon they carry. And thats not going to be shown when they're carrying the body away.
Theyve been warned to leave. If they stay, the blood is on their hands.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Where is a safe place?
What happens when Hamas fighters show up there too?
They have to move on or else they die under Israeli bombs and guns?
So Gazans should just become urban nomads?
Try thinking it through before you start the RW talking points.
7962
(11,841 posts)When a hurricane is coming you move inland. You dont have to go 500 miles, you just get away from the coast. They can move to the rest of Gaza.
Once again, the Palestinians wont get rid of Hamas. Its up to them to do so. They can do it, but they havent so far. Maybe being ignored by the rest of the Arab world will make them take notice.
"RW talking points" is a comment used when you have nothing else of substance to offer. Kind of like the cry of "liberal media!" from the right.
Take a look at whats being built with all the concrete and cash sent to Gaza. Dozens of tunnels, very well built, into Israel. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-hamas-tunnels.html?_r=0
blackspade
(10,056 posts)That is a third of the size of the county I live in.
That is over 13000 people per square mile.
Again, where do civilians go? Where would they live? What is their access to food and shelter?
And how pray tell do they 'get rid of' Hamas?
I said RW talking point, because what you are repeating over and over is nonsensical and devoid of critical thought.
7962
(11,841 posts)Hamas would have no where to go without the support of the people. The other countries would aid the people in pushing them out. They've been told as much in the past.
Israel has already said they will stop if Hamas stops firing rockets and building tunnels. If they actually DID stop, then pressure would be on Israel to improve the situation. And the pressure would work.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)the Middle East and of human nature if you think that just 'taking to the streets' will help the Palestinian people.
Mass demonstrations will be met with overwhelming force by the Israeli government no matter why they are in the streets.
And just so you understand, this current incarnation of the conflict did not start with Hamas rockets, but was manufactured by the RW Israeli government.
At this point I'm done. You haven't thought any of this stuff through even though you have been given a plethora of info.
At this point your just throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks.....
7962
(11,841 posts)I'd be first in line to criticize them if they did. Why would they stop a protest against the instigators of violence? It would be a stupid move. Hamas has already lost a major supporter in Egypt. Egypt has been critical of them since this began, which has been unheard of. There is a possibility of more states putting pressure on them.
It is YOU who have no understanding of what goes on over there. Hamas vows to destroy Israel. Its as simple as that. Until that changes, Israel has every right to punish them.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Typical US County East of the Great Plains is 20 miles wide by 20 miles north and south (About 400 Square Miles). This size was adopted so that people can get to the County seat and back home within one day. 20 miles is about what an army could march in a day. Please note this is all pre Railroad and pre automobile.
Now, once you hit the Rockies, counties start to get bigger. San Bernardino County in California is the largest County in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Bernardino_County,_California
There are exceptions to this rule, California Counties around San Francisco, Oakland and Sacramento tend to follow Eastern US rules. Maine has the largest Counties East of the Mississippi. Minnesota Counties as you near the Canadian Border gets larger. Texas follows the Eastern Rule, Except as you near El Paso and the Big Bend Area of the Rio Grande, then you see large counties.
Thus by saying you live in a County that is three times bigger then Gaza, you have eliminated about 1/3 of the US as your home. I bring this up for if you value privacy this is one way marketers and others determine where your live.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)You have no idea how silly yr comments about Palestinian civilians are. What are you having trouble grasping about the concept of civilian? All I can see is someone desperately clinging to ugly RW talking points to justify Israel's continued killing of Palestinian civilians.
Using yr 'logic' there's very few Israeli civilians in Israel, as most are conscripted to serve in the IDF. I realise that yr views are so one-sided that you just can't see things logically, but yr support of everything done by the very RW Israeli govt is absolutely revolting. It's hate that keeps this conflict going, and unfortunately it seems many Americans are full of that hate...
pretzel4gore
(8,146 posts)gee fellow; do you think they're sub human, or something? Is Palestine even a country? Does it have an Armed Forces, a AF College, a port authority, or a flag etc? An income tax bureau? Iow does it have money? i think it only has what it can scrape up... It seem Israel, like the US all the time,, is fighting a 'biker gang' like enemy, again, like we faced in Afghanistan or our lawn order guys versus the drug cartels....
and it aint fair (regardless of how biased yall are)
George II
(67,782 posts)
question everything
(47,487 posts)As long as the Gazans are building tunnels underground, why not build bomb shelters?
iandhr
(6,852 posts)… and not for terrorist purposes?
7962
(11,841 posts)Wonder what kind of construction is being paid for with that money??
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)We are Israeli reservists. We refuse to serve.
A petition.
..................................
To us, the current military operation and the way militarization affects Israeli society are inseparable. In Israel, war is not merely politics by other means — it replaces politics. Israel is no longer able to think about a solution to a political conflict except in terms of physical might; no wonder it is prone to never-ending cycles of mortal violence. And when the cannons fire, no criticism may be heard.
This petition, long in the making, has a special urgency because of the brutal military operation now taking place in our name. And although combat soldiers are generally the ones prosecuting today’s war, their work would not be possible without the many administrative roles in which most of us served. So if there is a reason to oppose combat operations in Gaza, there is also a reason to oppose the Israeli military apparatus as a whole. That is the message of this petition:
* * *
* * *
We were soldiers in a wide variety of units and positions in the Israeli military—a fact we now regret, because, in our service, we found that troops who operate in the occupied territories aren’t the only ones enforcing the mechanisms of control over Palestinian lives. In truth, the entire military is implicated. For that reason, we now refuse to participate in our reserve duties, and we support all those who resist being called to service.
The Israeli Army, a fundamental part of Israelis’ lives, is also the power that rules over the Palestinians living in the territories occupied in 1967. As long as it exists in its current structure, its language and mindset control us: We divide the world into good and evil according to the military’s categories; the military serves as the leading authority on who is valued more and who less in society — who is more responsible for the occupation, who is allowed to vocalize their resistance to it and who isn’t, and how they are allowed to do it. The military plays a central role in every action plan and proposal discussed in the national conversation, which explains the absence of any real argument about non-military solutions to the conflicts Israel has been locked in with its neighbors.
The Palestinian residents of the West Bank and Gaza Strip are deprived of civil rights and human rights. They live under a different legal system from their Jewish neighbors. This is not exclusively the fault of soldiers who operate in these territories. Those troops are, therefore, not the only ones obligated to refuse. Many of us served in logistical and bureaucratic support roles; there, we found that the entire military helps implement the oppression of the Palestinians.
the rest:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/07/23/we-are-israeli-reservists-we-refuse-to-serve/
7962
(11,841 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Scenes from a militarized America: Iowa family ‘terrorized’
Source: Wash Post
Watch this video, taken from a police raid in Des Moines, Iowa. Send it to some people. When critics (like me) warn about the dangers of police militarization, this is what we’re talking about. You’ll see the raid team, dressed in battle-dress uniforms, helmets and face-covering balaclava hoods take down the family’s door with a battering ram. You’ll see them storm the home with ballistics shields, guns at the ready. More troubling still, you’ll see not one but two officers attempt to prevent the family from having an independent record of the raid, one by destroying a surveillance camera, another by blocking another camera’s lens.
Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2014/02/04/scenes-from-a-militarized-america-iowa-family-terrorized//?print=1
This "no knock" shit has got to stop.
Posted by 7962 | Tue Feb 4, 2014, 05:24 PM (9 replies)
7962
(11,841 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)What Israel is doing is a "No knock" attack on civilians of Gaza.
840high
(17,196 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)Of course the IDF will bomb them too when they find them, civilian casualties be damned.
question everything
(47,487 posts)Why, do you think, they are running away? Because they have no bomb shelter where they can be safe.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)That's because no shelter would be safe if discovered. Period.
The presence of one Hamas operative, gun, or rocket would be all the justification needed to destroy the lives, homes, and possessions of everyone in the vicinity of a shelter.
There is nowhere safe for the Palestinian civilian.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that hamas has built bomb shelters. Tunnels to run weapons and kill Israelis, yes. But bomb shelters to protect their people - no evidence at all. Where are you getting your information?
blackspade
(10,056 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)"There are most certainly shelters" - what? Somebody hacked into your account?
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Where did I make a claim that Hamas was building shelters?
That is something that you construed from my statement.
Why would you think that civilians wouldn't construct shelters for their families in a siege?
A shelter doesn't have to be huge or formal.
I'm not sure why you have such animus against Palestinian civilians.
The bloodlust for this conflict is sickening.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I see post after post decrying the fact that more Israeli's aren't dying in the numbers the Gazans are. If you want to pretend you were saying the citizens of gaza are building their own shelters (because after all, their elected leaders couldn't be bothered), go right ahead. I weep for the children but have little sympathy for those who elected a terrorist organization as their leaders and expected anything but death and destruction.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)That is exactly what I was saying.
But feel free to go back into your bubble of hatred.
Because frankly, by making statements like "I weep for the children but have little sympathy for those who elected a terrorist organization as their leaders and expected anything but death and destruction" shows that you have shed important parts of your humanity.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Have you got links to all those posts? I strongly suspect that yr taking people pointing out the completely disproportionate death toll and twisting it into 'decrying' that more Israelis aren't killed. I haven't seen anyone say the latter, as that would be just as ugly as those I have seen at DU justifying the killing of Palestinian civilians by saying they shouldn't be in their own homes or hospitals...
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)If you haven't seen the "body count" posts, you're simply being blind. Since when, in any war or conflict, does it matter which side has more dead bodies - as if that makes one side right and the other side wrong.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Why is it any different when it comes to you? There's no blindness. All those posts you claim exist don't exist.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I sure wish you and I could speak freely to one another.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)rocket firing facilities wherever they are. This is on Hamas for putting it in a hospital. It's despicable. And that's not to say that the Israelis are all choir boys.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Matching a war crime with a war crime does not justify it.
christx30
(6,241 posts)For Israel to just allow the rocket launches against their country to continue? Would any country allow that? It's similar to someone punching you, then holding up a child to protect himself from you kicking his butt. If Hamas wants to protect their civilians, fire rockets from the streets out in the open, or don't fire them at all.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Do the rockets do any real damage? It's about proportionality.
Using your analogy, it's like someone punching me and then holding up a child as a shield, so I shoot him, the child, his dog, and then burn his house down as a warning to the rest of his family.
Hamas does not want to protect civilians. They are terrorists. But the Israelis don't give a shit about civilians either.
christx30
(6,241 posts)and no one does anything about it. So then what? Does Israel go to the ICC for help? Does it go to the UN? And the UN condemns Hamas for firing from hospitals and safe areas. Big whoop. They are totally powerless. Unless you want the UN to send peacekeepers. Which means possible American troops patrolling the streets of Shajaiyeh.
Or Israeli troops entering Gaza to find the rockets and Hamas fighters. They have already been doing that and causing many deaths and lots of destruction.
The last alternative is for Israel to just accept that the rockets are going to continue forever.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)You seem to be alluding, per your analogy, that the IDF should continue to punish Palestinian civilians for the actions of Hamas terrorists.
If armed men enter your house and fire rockets and then leave, what do you think the response should be?
Should your house be leveled? Your family killed? All your possessions destroyed?
That is what these civilians are living (and dying) with. What alternative do you have for them?
What specific actions can a group of unorganized, unarmed, scared, and hungry civilians do to stop Hamas and the IDF from destroying their neighborhoods?
christx30
(6,241 posts)Hamas to either surrender or be killed by the people who's homes and infrastructure are at risk from retaliation because of their actions. Hamas is a criminal organization and wants to destroy Israel. And Israel is going to protect Or for them to change their tactics and to go for the protection of their people instead of the gruesome PR of dead children on twitter.
So what can be done to protect both peoples? Again, would you send in the UN to stop the fighting? Or just have Israel live with rocket attacks. Should Hamas be allowed to build tunnels so they can pop and gun down as many civilians as they can? What would you to if you were Israel?
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Unarmed civilians are not going to tell Hamas shit.
If they begin to arm themselves, how will the IDF tell them apart from Hamas?
The realistic solution is for Israel to return the West Bank to the Palestinians, establish and overland route to Gaza, and allow the Palestinians to govern themselves. But that is not what the Israeli government wants.
They want the land, just not the folks who live on it.
My ultimate solution would be a single state, with equal representation by all of it's inhabitants regardless of culture or creed. But that door unfortunately is shut and it would take tremendous courage from all side to open it.
Some info that my help in the discussion:
http://www.thenation.com/article/180783/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked#
rollin74
(1,976 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts).... they can house rocket launchers and militia? Cool story, Bro.
dembotoz
(16,808 posts)both sides seem to be defending their homeland.
i remember in history class how during the revolutionary war the british was upset
because we did not line up in open fields to fight them in the traditional manor. Would
We have been viewed as hamas by other european nations
Sam1
(498 posts)dembotoz
(16,808 posts)Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)hamas is just sickening.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Whatever it takes to justify it.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I looked for it but couldn't find anyone cheering dead children.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)but since I'm a newbie I didn't want to cause trouble.
on edit...I doubt you'll get an answer.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I was checking to see if the poster had the grace to apologize for lying about you.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)I guess when you have enough posts you don't have to apologize
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I've been here at least a decade longer than that poster. Grace and a soul do matter. Wear it as a badge of honor considering the source.
Sam1
(498 posts)infrastructure is beneath contempt. Israel is just sickening.
JCMach1
(27,559 posts)Israel is not giving a frak who they bomb...
Hamas is not giving a frak who they endanger...
LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)they were all evacuated
Israels photos are from wait for it....... TODAY -so Hamas was using an already abandoned building but any port in a storm
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)
broiles
(1,367 posts)stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)when all that information is in the article linked.
7962
(11,841 posts)From dropping leaflets to texting to actually calling the residents, they've told the civilians to get out of the target areas
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Israeli spin concerning Shajaiyeh is in near centrifugal force
question everything
(47,487 posts)if they have a chance. But since stories from Fox are posted here, they have to tolerate it.
Yes, YNet is a reliable source. How long, do you think, any source can exist once it is found out not to be reliable.
(Personally, I think that certain moderators here should stay away from news about Israel. Let others lock them, if needed).
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Not when you have no idea of what they do and don't say about sources. They do a really good job and do it subjectively. There's never been any discussion in the hosts forum about YNet, and no host has ever voted to lock anything from YNet.
(I just noticed that yr talking away about what LBN hosts think, yet you don't have access to the hosts forum to know what they say about anything. Rather than casting aspersions at them, you should join up as an LBN host and see for yrself what they do.)
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)But that largest main hospital hasn't been warned or targeted yet. Best case for Hamas would have been to accept Egypt's cease fire agreement. Then Hamas could have continued their same 'campaigns' of hate against Israel. (without the missiles)
Now that ground forces have moved in Hamas will be toast. That other Pal Gov.(what is it PLO? something like that, the Gov. that was right before Hamas 'took power') will move in and take over the governing.
Really wish Egypt would allow some land for a safe place for woman and children to stay until this is over. If one notices not a single neighboring country offers a safe haven for any Pals. Not even for woman and children who have nothing to do with the Hamas male dominated society. Except to be human shields, disposable people.
7962
(11,841 posts)Seems as though the other Arab countries are sick of the same old crap from the palestinians
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/articles/middle-east/12920-letter-from-gaza-by-a-norwegian-doctor
Mads Gilbert
Sunday, 20 July 2014 11:06
Dearest friends,
The last night was extreme. The "ground invasion" of Gaza resulted in scores and carloads with maimed, torn apart, bleeding, shivering, dying - all sorts of injured Palestinians, all ages, all civilians, all innocent.
The heroes in the ambulances and in all of Gaza's hospitals are working 12-24 hour shifts, grey from fatigue and inhuman workloads (without payment all in Shifa for the last 4 months), they care, triage, try to understand the incomprehensible chaos of bodies, sizes, limbs, walking, not walking, breathing, not breathing, bleeding, not bleeding humans. HUMANS!
Now, once more treated like animals by "the most moral army in the world" (sic!).
My respect for the wounded is endless, in their contained determination in the midst of pain, agony and shock; my admiration for the staff and volunteers is endless, my closeness to the Palestinian "sumud" gives me strength, although in glimpses I just want to scream, hold someone tight, cry, smell the skin and hair of the warm child, covered in blood, protect ourselves in an endless embrace - but we cannot afford that, nor can they.
Ashy grey faces - Oh NO! Not one more load of tens of maimed and bleeding, we still have lakes of blood on the floor in the ER, piles of dripping, blood-soaked bandages to clear out - oh - the cleaners, everywhere, swiftly shovelling the blood and discarded tissues, hair, clothes,cannulas - the leftovers from death - all taken away ... to be prepared again, to be repeated all over. More then 100 cases came to Shifa in the last 24 hrs. Enough for a large well trained hospital with everything, but here - almost nothing: no electricity, water, disposables, drugs, OR-tables, instruments, monitors - all rusted and as if taken from museums of yesterday's hospitals. But they do not complain, these heroes. They get on with it, like warriors, head on, enormously resolute.
And as I write these words to you, alone, on a bed, my tears flow, the warm but useless tears of pain and grief, of anger and fear. This is not happening!
An then, just now, the orchestra of the Israeli war-machine starts its gruesome symphony again, just now: salvos of artillery from the navy boats just down on the shores, the roaring F16, the sickening drones (Arabic 'Zennanis', the hummers), and the cluttering Apaches. So much made in and paid by the US.
Mr. Obama - do you have a heart?
I invite you - spend one night - just one night - with us in Shifa. Disguised as a cleaner, maybe.
I am convinced, 100%, it would change history.
Nobody with a heart AND power could ever walk away from a night in Shifa without being determined to end the slaughter of the Palestinian people.
But the heartless and merciless have done their calculations and planned another "dahyia" onslaught on Gaza.
The rivers of blood will keep running the coming night. I can hear they have tuned their instruments of death.
Please. Do what you can. This, THIS cannot continue.
Mads Gilbert MD PhD
Professor and Clinical Head
Clinic of Emergency Medicine
University Hospital of North Norway
- See more at: http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/articles/middle-east/12920-letter-from-gaza-by-a-norwegian-doctor#sthash.HjTiJu2P.dpuf
broiles
(1,367 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)who don't swallow whole the propaganda spit out by hamas, a terrorist organization?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)This is the Latest breaking news forum isn't it?
happyslug
(14,779 posts)I watched the whole video and it was one artillery strike after another. The Video starts with a recordings of a conversation saying the Hospital had been abandoned LAST WEEK and the doors had been locked. Then when the Video resumes you see one Artillery strike on the Hospital after another. They claim "Secondary Expositions" but that can be fuel or oxygen (both kept in most hospitals, Fuel to run stand by generators, oxygen for Patients).
I wanted to see a firing of Anti-tank weapon to confirm that the hospital was being used as a defensive position, but I saw none. I did see a lot of Artillery Strikes, more then enough to destroy the hospital, a hospital with no patients or medical staff inside it.
In the type of warfare Hamas is fighting with the IDF, I suspect anti-tank missiles and/or rockets were fired from the area of the Hospital (and maybe even the Hospital itself), but Hamas knows what the IDF can delivery, so I would be surprised of any such shooter waited around to get hit by Artillery. I can also see a Hamas military unit, looking for firing positions move from one spot to another and firing on IDF ground units. Artillery can be brought to bear within two minutes if already sit up to fire (the article shows a M109 155,, Self Propelled Artillery piece, calling it a "Tank", firing from a in place position).
Thus it is possible HAMAS was using the Hospital to fire on the IDF, but not because it was a hospital, but because it was on the IDF line of attack AND IT HAD BEEN CLOSED DOWN AS A HOSPITAL. I can also see ground forces, being fired upon from unknown position, assuming it was from the Hospital for it was the tallest building around.
This is what happened during WWII and Monte Cassino, US forces were pinned down before the ridge Monte Cassino is atop of. The Allied troops below that ridge ASSUMED the Germans had Artillery spotters in Monte Cassino and demanded that it be bombed. The Germans said they were NOT using it, and the monks later confirmed that fact and pointed out there were plenty of other places artillery spotter could view the Allied Lines from, thus the Germans did NOT need to put spotters in the monastery. On February 14, 1944 the abbey was bombed. The Germans only then moved troops to where the abbey had been.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monte_Cassino
Notice the problem was NOT that the Germans were USING Monte Cassino, the Allies said they had to be for it was the best explanation for the German success at holding that ridge. The fact that the Germans were NOT was just ignored or dismissed. I suspect the same for this Hospital. It is on the line of attack of the IDF and I suspect the IDF said it had to be where HAMAS had observer who then arranged for attacks on the IDF. No evidence that Hamas was actually do that, but the IDF thought so and that was enough to "prove" it to themselves.
Sorry, the video shows nothing but the effectiveness of 155 mm Shells when they hit something.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)The video clearly showed an Israeli strike on the building, it did not show any rockets being launched from the building. If that video is the best evidence the IDF can come up with we have plenty of reason to be skeptical of their claims, they still have yet to provide clear evidence that rockets were launched from the hospital.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Yeah, pay no attention to the human shields. How anyone can defend Hamas is beyond me.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)It's THEIR fucking hospital. They can do what the fuck they want with it.
If the rockets are supposed to make a difference, they don't. Those rockets are notoriously inaccurate. The idiots still firing them, and everyone else, knows it. So it is just an excuse to murder innocents at a hospital.
And footage of rockets coming from a hospital doesn't give that insane terrorist Netanyahu justification to kill more babies.
It just doesn't work that way.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)throwing rocks at you from his yard, do you just live with it? "It's his yard. He can throw rocks at me all he wants." Or do you call the police about the potential lethal situation?
If Hamas is firing rockets from the building, they invite retaliation. If the building has been closed as a hospital, all that will be destroyed is the building, rocket launchers, and the Hamas members. If the building hasn't been cleared, then patients will die.
But reports have shown that the hospital has been evacuated, so there is no big loss there.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)It was evacuated.....the medical equipment and supplies were still there. That is a huge loss.
And if my neighbor was throwing rocks onto my lawn that were causing no damage or injuries I would not take a rocket launcher and blow up his house.
christx30
(6,241 posts)throwing rocks that were causing damage, killing your pets, you wouldn't just deal with it. You would be livid and send the cops. And even if you didn't, others wouldn't just deal with it. Nor should they. Someone's rights end where your property begins.
Hamas knows their rocket attacks will bring retaliation. They are cowards that pick on the big kid and run behind the teacher for protection.
You want to save that medical equipment, tell Hamas to stop hiding behind it. They are fighting a war they can't possibly win. But their problems are their own fault. I don't poke a bear with a stick. I don't walk up to the biggest guy in the street and say racist/homophobic insults at him because I know what the result will be. Because I know both responses would be disproportionate and I would probably die. But it would be my fault. The walls were put there to protect the Israelis from the suicide bombers. The blockade is there to stop the Pals from bringing in weapons.
If they were better neighbors, they would work WITH the Israelis instead of against them. And things would be better for everyone.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)I hate that Hamas is doing this to the Palestanians. It's terrible that they are waging a war they can't win and getting their people killed as result. Israel isn't going anywhere. Ever. But throwing your people away on a war like this does no one any good. It just brings death and destruction. You poke a bear, you're going to get eaten. You hold a child in front of you while you poke a bear, you're a terrible person and deserve whatever happens to you.
The Palestinians need to get rid of Hamas and try to form some kind of peace with the Israelies. Gather the rockets and launchers. Arrest the Hamas leaders. Dump the rockets and the Hamas leaders in a pile at the border and let Israel destroy them. That would go a long way towards bridging the gap that is causing these two peoples to distrust each other.
Sign a treaty saying that you won't bring weapons in. Get the blockade removed. Start trade. Bring in supplies and food. Build a better life for everyone involved.
Or keep going as you are. Let your people die.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)They can choose not to kill innocent citizens. They can choose to not confine a group of people to what is basically an open air prison. They can choose not to continue to destroy homes and take land.
christx30
(6,241 posts)"Hamas keeps firing rockets at our civilian centers, damaging property and putting our people at risk. But since they are shooting from hospitals and schools, we're not going to do anything about it." Do you know any country at all that would accept rocket attacks to civilian areas? And if Hamas is commiting a war crime, what can be done? You want to get ICC involved? What about the UN? What can they do to stop it? Israel is on its own here. They are going to do what they are going to do to protect their civilians. It's up to Hamas to realize they are not going to win, and they are causing more problems for their people
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)They can do whatever they want with their hospitals? Sure they can - but then they don't get to whine about dead civilians. Just let the terrorist hamas shoot rockets from whereever they please, hospitals, schools, whatever but heaven forbid the target of those rockets fights back. THAT is what you consider the war crime. Unbelievable.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)You are justified in going into the hospital and removing the rockets (and any rocket launchers, etc.) . . .
BUT NOT BLOWING IT ALL UP.
christx30
(6,241 posts)of Gaza is warranted to remove threats to Israel. Blowing up tunnels and seeking out the rockets. But you're just not cool with the airstrikes.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to shoot rockets from where there are civilians but it's up to the target to risk their lives getting to that hospital to get to the launchers. I think that's pretty fucked up.
7962
(11,841 posts)
PCIntern
(25,556 posts)One thread had a poster who said that no one on DU had shown 'unequivocal' support for Hamas. And that was supposed to placate us...
SnakeEyes
(1,407 posts)And hamas does care for their innocents.
All it takes is one rocket amongst the others.
Seriously, how would you feel if terrorists were sending rockets into your town that forced you to run to shelter up to five times in a single hour?
RedstDem
(1,239 posts)then terrorist fire back!!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)dead_head
(81 posts)since they need that to justify the war.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)godammit!
countryjake
(8,554 posts)77 percent of the dead are civilians.
Ben Wedeman tweeted that an hour ago:
https://twitter.com/bencnn
He did a report a bit ago on Wolfie's CNN show with video of when he accompanied a Red Cross team into the Gaza City neighborhood of Shujai'iya, as they attempted to recover victims' bodies and search for any survivors of the weekend attack on the area. They did not get very far. Shelling, snipers, and bombs made their mission impossible.
When the IDF attacks medical personnel, hospitals and medical facilities, ambulances, and other clearly marked humanitarian groups, it makes a rational person wonder just how accurate their "pinpoint" operations and "documenting" of "terrorism" might be.
Attacking and destroying any hospital in Gaza when there are now more than 5000 Palestinians wounded, some so severely that they are not expected to survive, is unconscionable, in my opinion.
question everything
(47,487 posts)where they are sending terrorists to abduct Israelis.
But, obviously, human shields is more valuable than signing an agreement and stop all acts of terror.
What, they will have to run a regular community? Worry about setting sewage system and collecting trash? Where is the glory there?
Honestly, I hope that this time Israel will not agree to just a ceasefire. I hope that it will insist of demilitarize Gaza and assure that all the tunnels are sealed.
Then, and only then, can the border be open and the Gazans can go back to Israel to work.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
countryjake
(8,554 posts)Since the first Lebanon war over 30 years ago, Israel's main strategy has been killing Arabs. The current atrocious war in Gaza is no different.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.604653#!
The goal of Operation Protective Edge is to restore the calm; the means: killing civilians. The slogan of the Mafia has become official Israeli policy. Israel sincerely believes that if it kills hundreds of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, quiet will reign. It is pointless to destroy the weapons stores of Hamas, which has already proved capable of rearmament. Bringing down the Hamas government is an unrealistic (and illegitimate) goal, one that Israel does not want: It is aware that the alternative could be much worse. That leaves only one possible purpose for the military operation: death to Arabs, accompanied by the cheering of the masses.
The Israel Defense Forces already has a “map of pain,” a diabolical invention that has replaced the no less diabolical “bank of targets,” and that map is spreading at a sickening pace. Watch Al Jazeera English, a balanced and professional television channel (unlike its Arabic sister station), and see the extent of its success. You won’t see it in Israel’s “open” broadcast studios, which as usual are only open to the Israeli victim, but on Al Jazeera you will see the whole truth, and perhaps you will even be shocked.
The bodies in Gaza are piling up, the desperate, constantly updated tabulation of mass killing that Israel boasts of, which already numbers dozens of civilians, including 24 children as of noon on Saturday; hundreds of people injured, in addition to horror and destruction. One school and one hospital have already been bombed. The aim is to strike homes, and no amount of justification can help: It’s a war crime, even if the IDF calls them “command-and-control centers” or “conference rooms.” Granted, there are strikes that are much more brutal than Israel’s, but in this war, which is nothing other than mutual attacks on civilians — the elephant against the fly — there aren’t even any refugees. In contrast to Syria and Iraq, in the Gaza Strip the inhabitants do not have the luxury of fleeing for their lives. In a cage, there’s nowhere to run.
The Gaza death toll has now reached 700. According to the UN, 77 percent of the dead are civilians. Over 5000 Palestinians wounded.
I do understand.
SnakeEyes
(1,407 posts)they are really underperforming considering their military/technological might.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Prior to the Invasion of Russia in June 1941, the Nazis killing of Jews were minimal. The actual Nazi Plan was to make life so miserable for the Jews, they would leave. In fact the Nazis were the #1 smugglers of Jews into what is now Israel prior to 1941. In May 1941, as Hitler was building up forces to Invade Russia, Yugoslavia had a coup, while Italy's Invasion of Greece was turning into an Italian debacle (As was the Italian Invasion of Egypt from Libya). The United Kingdom also took over Iraq in the Spring of 1941.
What all those war moves meant, was the last two method of smuggling Jews to Palestine were cut off. Germany could not send them through Russia, after Hitler attacked Russia in June 1941. Spain was an option after the fall of France in June 1940 (Through that also cut off the Dutch Ports, for Hitler used the Netherlands as part of the invasion of France, Netherlands being Neutral till Attacked in May 1940). Please note the Soviet Union route was a minor route for European Jews to escape the Nazis. Franco did not want the Jews, for the best place he could ship them was to the USA, which was rejecting them. Thus the main smuggling route was Germany to Yugoslavia (Pro Jew but Neutral till May 1941), then to Greece, or Bulgaria (A German Ally during WWII) and Turkey (Neutral, but pro-German). From Greece to Turkey the Jews would be put on boats and shipped to Palestine.
The German Invasion of Yugoslavia and then Greece, permitted the British to attack any ship in the Aegean Sea, which fell under Greek Rule (It appears that in at least the 1939-1941 period, most Smuggling of Jews were done by the Greeks, but paid for by the Germans). Turkey, fearing a joint British-Soviet attack, as happened to Iran in the Summer of 1941, as Britain and the then Neutral US wanted to secure a supply line to the Soviet Union, decided to appease the British by cutting off what little Jewish smuggling they had been doing.
Once the ways to smuggle Jews out of Europe disappeared, AND the rest of the world was at war with Germany, then and only then did the Nazis went into whole scale murder. First the SS teams sent into Russia to murder any Jews and Communist party members they found, then the death camps after December 1941.
I bring up the pre- holocaust Jews being kicked out of Europe, to show what Israel is doing to the Palestinians today. Since 1947 and the establishment of the Jewish State, the Israeli position has been the Palestinians (Both Christian and Moslem) should be resettled among the other "Arabs" of the Middle East, just like the Nazis said the Jews should go back to Palestine in pre-1941 days. Israel has REFUSED to accept the fact that one's tribe in more important to most Arabs then being an Arab, and thus moving someone from another tribe into your tribal area is unacceptable to them. It would be like moving poor inner city African Americans into an upper middle Class suburb, the howls would be loud and clear, even while admitting the African Americans have to live some place.
Israel has NEVER been in the position of the Nazi were in from 1941 to 1945, i.e. the whole world in active war with Israel, for the US has been pro-Israel since 1947. Thus Israel has always been in a position more like the Nazis pre-1941 then post 1941. Do to this support from the US, it has been the policy of Israel to "Encourage" movement of undesirables to places outside of Israel. Thus Israel policy is similar to the Nazis pre 1941 policy as to the Jews, to encourage such those undesirables to leave and everything, inducing an occasional murder, will be used to "encourage" such movement.
This policy has been effective. The West Bank, occupied since 1967, was, in many ways, more Christian then Moslem in 1967. The Christians controlled most commerce and tended to be what we would call the Upper Middle Class of the West Bank. Towns of importance, including Bethlehem, were majority Christian cities. The policies adopted by Israel to the people of the West Bank, were similar to the policies the Nazis adopted to the Jews in Europe pre 1941, separation and massive discrimination but minimal use of force. If people objected, force would be used, but if no one objected, people would be left alone EXCEPT for the massive discrimination against them. To avoid adverse reporting overt discrimination was avoided but even then non-Jews were forbidden in certain parts of the West Bank, and land was taken from land owners to build the various Jewish settlements (Israel had a policy that all land not being used belonged to Israel, and then ruled that land wanted by Jewish Settlements were not being used, even if they were.
Another policy was to favor Jewish Shops over non-Jewish shops. This not only included buying form those shops, but even selling supplies to those shops. Jewish merchants could get goods at a discount, but non jewish shops could not. These policies tended to hurt the upper middle class more then the poor. Given the Upper Middle Class tended to be Christian and had some money, they were the ones who moved, mostly to the US. Thus the US has a sizable Palestinian population, but it tends to be Christian not Moslem. On the other hand, the poor of the West Bank tended to be Moslem, and thus Cities like Bethlehem, went from being overwhelmingly Christian, as they have been since the time of the Roman Empire, to being majority Moslem Today. The poor, rely more on relatives and their network of friends to survive then did the Upper Middle Class (who also rely on Friends and Relatives, but as a whole can also rely on Money) and thus tend to stay with such network of friends and relatives. Thus since 1967 the people of the West Bank have been pushed further and further against the proverbial wall and with most of the old Upper Middle Class moved to America it is a bomb ready to go off. In many ways Israel would like such a blow up, for it would provide them with the cover story to kill the people of the West Bank is their continue to refuse to leave.
Gaza has always been poorer then the West Bank, it did not have the tourist traps of where Jesus was born and taught (and where Mohammad ascended into Heaven). On the other hand The Gaza Strip is a Fertile coastal plain that actually extends into most of present day Israel. Thus it was the easiest place for most Palestinians escaped to in 1947. Thus a rich plain, with a lot of poor farmers, (The old Joke Land Rich, Cash Poor) having to take in a massive number of refugees and keep them for over 60 years, is enough to bankrupt the whole economy. Worse Gaza has no real natural port, thus must import (and export) goods from Israel or Egypt. Gaza is easier to cut off then the West Bank, to its south is desert, thus the only way in or out is along the coastal Highway (Small Boats can take off from the Beeches of the Gaza Stripe, but so can Camels into the desert to the south. Both are easy to spot for they is no "Cover" to hide under, thus not a reasonable alternative to the Coastal Highway.
For those reasons Gaza had always been more radical then the West Bank. Gaza also tends to be more united then the West Bank, for the same reasons. Ancient Israel always had a problem with Gaza (Where the Ancient Philistines lived) for the same reasons present day Israel is having problems. Gaza is united behind its leaders and want to attack its enemies, which right now is Israel. On the other hand Israel wants Gaza gone, and doing what it can to get the people of Gaza to move elsewhere. Israel has been less successful in Gaza for the simple reason Gaza is more united, thus Israel tends to "drop" the hammer in Gaza much more then the Richer West Bank (Which still has some money, from tourism and trade via Jordan, which Israel has not totally cut off, for it can not for the Jordon River is NOT a real barrier to even truck transportation and being hillier and Greener the Gaza, the West Bank alternative routes have something we call "Cover" to hide under (i.e. Trees and other large natural objects).
Just why Israel policy if killing an Occasional Palestinian is similar to the Nazi's Policy as to the Jews in the 1930s.
jerkstore90210
(14 posts)with Hitler.
Congratulations, you win putz of the day.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)If you read my writing, I clearly kept using Israel when it came to the present war on the people of Gaza. I used the term Jews to refer to the people Hitler tried to liquidate. Thus I did NOT refer to the present Israeli Government as Jews. My point is the present Government of Israel is acting just like Hitler did to the Jews. If you do not like it fine, but I made a point that it is NOT Jews who are doing act, but the present Israeli Government.
840high
(17,196 posts)countryjake
(8,554 posts)since Israel has not shown that it discerns one Palestinian from another every time it attempts to crush Gaza.
Annex to the Convention: Regulations respecting the laws and customs of war on land - Section III :
Military authority over the territory of the hostile state - Regulations: Art. 43.
Art. 43. The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country
http://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/WebART/195-200053?OpenDocument
The Gaza death toll has now reached 700. According to the UN, 77 percent of the dead are civilians. Over 5000 Palestinians wounded.
Here's a song for you to listen to. It was written in the midst of Israel's deadly Operation Cast Lead, more than five years ago, yet, unfortunately, it is still pertinent.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)I find it amazing there are no groups of Palestinians speaking out against sending 2000 missiles against innocent Israelis.
against using kids as human shields
against shooting missiles from hospitals
840high
(17,196 posts)he said he and his family support Hamas.
LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I kind of strongly suspect they're a bit too busy trying to avoid Israeli missiles right now. Or are you under some illusion that the massive death toll is Israelis and not Palestinians?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)On one side are those who wish for an end to war, and the other side are those cheering war on.
I thought dU was a site for peace? I guess not. It is now a place for warmongering opinions to be well heard.
What good is it to allow warmongering?
Sad, days on dU.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)that if the Palestinians were white and the Israelis were Arab that almost nobody on DU would be supporting Israel's war mongering.
candelista
(1,986 posts)Only because that's a counterfactual that no one can wrap his head around.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)One could accuse you of the same thing: "cheering war on." You apparently have picked a side, defended it, and accuse the other of all manner of atrocities without no room for new evidence.
I'm against war, and so I am against the people shooting at each other, or giving the orders to shoot.
Hamas being bad and doing bad things doesn't make Israel innocent, and vice versa.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)The last thing i have done is cheer war on. I have picked a side, however, and that side is Kerry's side. The side trying to end the bloodshed.
Your utterly false and slanderous accusation? False and slanderous.
rustydad
(761 posts)It is incredibly sad how any discussion of Israel/Palestine brings out the Israeli trolls who bombard the discussion with their pro Israel crap. It makes me so mad I have given up on DU as a place for progressive discussion.
harun
(11,348 posts)First casualty is always the truth.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Oh wait, ynetnews is totally okay.
And the headline's only a problem if you're hung up on prepositions, like the difference between from and into.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Hama are only freedom fighters, Hamas is a peaceful organization who only wants to lay down their roots. They are tolerant of gays and other religions and peoples and are thankful for all the support they receive on DU.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It shows translated voiceover - anonymous, voice-disguised voiceover, could be anyone, anywhere - prior to IDF footage of hammering the hospital. Nary a rocket in sight.
