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mitty14u2

(1,015 posts)
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 12:13 PM Jul 2014

Video reportedly shows MH17 missile launcher being moved to Russian border

Source: Sydney Morning Herold

A YouTube short video posted by the Ukrainian government reportedly shows a “Buk,” or SA-11 “Gadfly,” surface-to-air missile system en route from eastern Ukraine to the Russian border on Friday, the Washington Post reports.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/video-reportedly-shows-mh17-missile-launcher-being-moved-to-russian-border-20140719-zuqfz.html#ixzz37voKMAcd



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/video-reportedly-shows-mh17-missile-launcher-being-moved-to-russian-border-20140719-zuqfz.html



3rd Video scroll down shows launcher being moved with two missiles missing?
12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Video reportedly shows MH17 missile launcher being moved to Russian border (Original Post) mitty14u2 Jul 2014 OP
I'll know what to believe about this as soon as RT tells me. MNBrewer Jul 2014 #1
I don't know if camera panning indicates security footage, looks like someone is filming by hand jakeXT Jul 2014 #2
How dare you ask any questions? JackRiddler Jul 2014 #5
Your manic nonsense indicates your bias tabasco Jul 2014 #7
Your generic, meaningless put-down JackRiddler Jul 2014 #8
Yes, and the report this mornng was that overnight they crossed the border. Igel Jul 2014 #3
Interesting that you bring Golden Dawn into it. JackRiddler Jul 2014 #4
The fact is, the Ukraine is no threat to world peace, Russia and Putin are. 7962 Jul 2014 #11
Disagree. JackRiddler Jul 2014 #12
It is rather interesting sadoldgirl Jul 2014 #6
Saw this yesterday on DU ... GeorgeGist Jul 2014 #9
The video shows a truck with cargo. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #10
 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
5. How dare you ask any questions?
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 02:47 PM
Jul 2014

The government in Kiev has posted a video on Youtube!

This constitutes absolute truth! Kowtow!

If you should for a moment wonder otherwise, you are directly making love to Putin because you love all of history's totalitarians and child-murderers! Hitler!

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
7. Your manic nonsense indicates your bias
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 03:22 PM
Jul 2014

and your lack of ability to objectively analyze the event.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
8. Your generic, meaningless put-down
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 04:39 PM
Jul 2014

says nothing at all, except I suppose as a declaration of your own bias for Team Yatsenyuk.

Igel

(35,320 posts)
3. Yes, and the report this mornng was that overnight they crossed the border.
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 02:19 PM
Jul 2014

So when the rebels say they don't have the capability to shoot down the plane they're telling the truth.

Part of good propaganda isn't just telling lies. It's making sure that the competing story can't be verified. Even without its own version, Russia can always say, "Where are the SA-11 batteries? Can't prove them? How do we know they were there?"

"That video? Might be a Ukrainian SA-11 videotaped two years ago in the suburbs of Kiev. Or the day after the plane was shot down, taped near L'vov."

"Even if you do prove conclusively that the videos are of SA-11s on the right day where they are claimed to be, how do we know that they weren't units captured from the Ukrainians? If you can't examine them you can't check the serial numbers, now can you? Gee, I wonder what happened to them. You can't find them anywhere and the war's over? Tough luck. Maybe they were destroyed in some artillery barrage."

Given that the reports of the Buks showing up and getting to Snizhne occurred before the incident, I think it almost certain that the reports of the Buks backtracking are true. But ...


Before doing anything against Russia there are those so committed to insistently not getting involved--any involvement might cost them something, political or monetary--that they'll grasp at any straw to continue to do nothing. Then there are those who so fervently believe that Russia can't be involved and the rebels must be good that in the absence of 100% beyond-any-doubt-at-all proof there's still a chance that it wasn't Russia or the rebels. And if there's still a chance, however small, then belief can survive.

The countries that are most hesitant to impose sanctions are those with the greatest trade ties with Russia. The EU just imposed sanctions, at least partially because of Crimea. Yet today the news is that Italy and Greece are digging deep to provide additional ferries to unite Russia and the Crimea. There's been a real shortage of ferry space for tourists, for cars, for produce and merchandise in the last month.

On the other hand, a lot of ferries have been photographed in the last month carrying APCs, tanks, soldiers, munitions to really beef up the Russian military presence in Crimea. Space is fungible. By providing ferries, Greece and Italy are helping deepen the Russian military presence in Crimea. A lot of the armaments show up on the Ukrainian border, and help the Russians pressure the Ukrainian government militarily.

So while reluctantly agreeing to sanctions that will hurt their economy and saying high-minded words about Ukrainian territorial integrity and such, Italy and Greece are profiting from helping Russia to do what the sanctions are punishing Russia for.

Then again, Golden Dawn is a great admirer of Putin, and the Russian Orthodox Army types dress and act and have the same kinds of slogans and activities as the Greek fascists allied and overlapping with Golden Dawn. Sort of a swastika merged with an Orthodox cross. Clever, that.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
4. Interesting that you bring Golden Dawn into it.
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 02:43 PM
Jul 2014

My, you do range far. Last I checked, they were being prosecuted as a criminal organization.

Although there are those in New Democracy who would gladly bring them into the government, they aren't a part of the Greek government.

Quite the contrast to Kiev, I'd say! There, right-wing extremists closely allied with Nazi movements are part of the government. They hold cabinet positions.

Of course, it's hard sometimes to distinguish their rhetoric from that of Yatsenyuk himself, with all the talk of how domestic opposition to him consists of "subhumans" and terrorists and foreigners.

Before you predictably start talking about Putin, maybe you're the one who can't deal without a false dichotomy? Maybe there's plenty of evil to go around on more than one side in the Ukrainian situation? Certainly there is no need or interest for U.S. citizens in having CIA-FBI-State Department-USAID interfering on the ground and covertly in Ukrainian politics, in part supporting the fascists, as has been the case for years.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
11. The fact is, the Ukraine is no threat to world peace, Russia and Putin are.
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 05:25 PM
Jul 2014

If you're looking for the right wing boogeyman, look no further than Vladimir Putin. His expansionist dreams are just beginning, wathc and see

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
12. Disagree.
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 06:12 PM
Jul 2014

World peace calls for a negotiated, peaceful solution based on federalism in the Ukraine. Russia has no rational interest in absorbing the mess in the East, and the American people do not benefit by the U.S. interventions on the ground there.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
6. It is rather interesting
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 02:49 PM
Jul 2014

who supplied this "information". May be we will never know the responsible party, but I for one am not impressed with the source here.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
10. The video shows a truck with cargo.
Sat Jul 19, 2014, 05:10 PM
Jul 2014

It's very blurry and I cannot tell what is on the truck. Might be my eyes, but it reminds me of the trucks that the US government showed us when they claimed that Iraq had WMDs. Very similar. Meaningless to me.

If you read Greenwald's book No Place to Hide, you learn that the Washington Post can be a government propaganda dump. So you have to read it with caution unfortunately. The Washington Post and other American news media is only slightly better than the Russian media with regard to playing footsie with the government.

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