Video reportedly shows MH17 missile launcher being moved to Russian border
Source: Sydney Morning Herold
A YouTube short video posted by the Ukrainian government reportedly shows a Buk, or SA-11 Gadfly, surface-to-air missile system en route from eastern Ukraine to the Russian border on Friday, the Washington Post reports.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/video-reportedly-shows-mh17-missile-launcher-being-moved-to-russian-border-20140719-zuqfz.html#ixzz37voKMAcd
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/video-reportedly-shows-mh17-missile-launcher-being-moved-to-russian-border-20140719-zuqfz.html
3rd Video scroll down shows launcher being moved with two missiles missing?
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)jakeXT
(10,575 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)The government in Kiev has posted a video on Youtube!
This constitutes absolute truth! Kowtow!
If you should for a moment wonder otherwise, you are directly making love to Putin because you love all of history's totalitarians and child-murderers! Hitler!
tabasco
(22,974 posts)and your lack of ability to objectively analyze the event.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)says nothing at all, except I suppose as a declaration of your own bias for Team Yatsenyuk.
Igel
(35,320 posts)So when the rebels say they don't have the capability to shoot down the plane they're telling the truth.
Part of good propaganda isn't just telling lies. It's making sure that the competing story can't be verified. Even without its own version, Russia can always say, "Where are the SA-11 batteries? Can't prove them? How do we know they were there?"
"That video? Might be a Ukrainian SA-11 videotaped two years ago in the suburbs of Kiev. Or the day after the plane was shot down, taped near L'vov."
"Even if you do prove conclusively that the videos are of SA-11s on the right day where they are claimed to be, how do we know that they weren't units captured from the Ukrainians? If you can't examine them you can't check the serial numbers, now can you? Gee, I wonder what happened to them. You can't find them anywhere and the war's over? Tough luck. Maybe they were destroyed in some artillery barrage."
Given that the reports of the Buks showing up and getting to Snizhne occurred before the incident, I think it almost certain that the reports of the Buks backtracking are true. But ...
Before doing anything against Russia there are those so committed to insistently not getting involved--any involvement might cost them something, political or monetary--that they'll grasp at any straw to continue to do nothing. Then there are those who so fervently believe that Russia can't be involved and the rebels must be good that in the absence of 100% beyond-any-doubt-at-all proof there's still a chance that it wasn't Russia or the rebels. And if there's still a chance, however small, then belief can survive.
The countries that are most hesitant to impose sanctions are those with the greatest trade ties with Russia. The EU just imposed sanctions, at least partially because of Crimea. Yet today the news is that Italy and Greece are digging deep to provide additional ferries to unite Russia and the Crimea. There's been a real shortage of ferry space for tourists, for cars, for produce and merchandise in the last month.
On the other hand, a lot of ferries have been photographed in the last month carrying APCs, tanks, soldiers, munitions to really beef up the Russian military presence in Crimea. Space is fungible. By providing ferries, Greece and Italy are helping deepen the Russian military presence in Crimea. A lot of the armaments show up on the Ukrainian border, and help the Russians pressure the Ukrainian government militarily.
So while reluctantly agreeing to sanctions that will hurt their economy and saying high-minded words about Ukrainian territorial integrity and such, Italy and Greece are profiting from helping Russia to do what the sanctions are punishing Russia for.
Then again, Golden Dawn is a great admirer of Putin, and the Russian Orthodox Army types dress and act and have the same kinds of slogans and activities as the Greek fascists allied and overlapping with Golden Dawn. Sort of a swastika merged with an Orthodox cross. Clever, that.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)My, you do range far. Last I checked, they were being prosecuted as a criminal organization.
Although there are those in New Democracy who would gladly bring them into the government, they aren't a part of the Greek government.
Quite the contrast to Kiev, I'd say! There, right-wing extremists closely allied with Nazi movements are part of the government. They hold cabinet positions.
Of course, it's hard sometimes to distinguish their rhetoric from that of Yatsenyuk himself, with all the talk of how domestic opposition to him consists of "subhumans" and terrorists and foreigners.
Before you predictably start talking about Putin, maybe you're the one who can't deal without a false dichotomy? Maybe there's plenty of evil to go around on more than one side in the Ukrainian situation? Certainly there is no need or interest for U.S. citizens in having CIA-FBI-State Department-USAID interfering on the ground and covertly in Ukrainian politics, in part supporting the fascists, as has been the case for years.
7962
(11,841 posts)If you're looking for the right wing boogeyman, look no further than Vladimir Putin. His expansionist dreams are just beginning, wathc and see
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)World peace calls for a negotiated, peaceful solution based on federalism in the Ukraine. Russia has no rational interest in absorbing the mess in the East, and the American people do not benefit by the U.S. interventions on the ground there.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)who supplied this "information". May be we will never know the responsible party, but I for one am not impressed with the source here.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)and now it's LBN. Amazing.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's very blurry and I cannot tell what is on the truck. Might be my eyes, but it reminds me of the trucks that the US government showed us when they claimed that Iraq had WMDs. Very similar. Meaningless to me.
If you read Greenwald's book No Place to Hide, you learn that the Washington Post can be a government propaganda dump. So you have to read it with caution unfortunately. The Washington Post and other American news media is only slightly better than the Russian media with regard to playing footsie with the government.