Israel Naval Ship 'Bombs Palestinian Children on Gaza Beach,' Killing Four
Source: The Telegraph (UK)
Four children were killed in Gaza City on Wednesday, medics said, in Israeli shelling witnessed by The Telegraph and other foreign journalists.
The four were among a group on the beach when the attack took place, emergency services spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra said, with some of the surviving injured children taking refuge at a nearby hotel where journalists were staying.
Journalists heard two loud explosions outside the Gaza City hotel, before children were pulled into the restaurant area for treatment.
A journalist who saw the incident said some of the children who survived were running away when another shell seemed to be aimed at them.
Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10971306/Israeli-naval-ship-bombs-Palestinian-children-on-Gaza-beach-killing-four.html
The IDF once again proves it is very effective at killing Palestinian civilians.
The reports are that about 70% of the dead are civilians, including dozens of children.
Your tax dollars at work.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Not necessarily combatants, some maybe, but for some reason people like to automatically assume they all are.
Orrex
(63,212 posts)I'm sure that the dead children will rest in peace thanks the the great restraint exercised in killing them.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)rules here. I think Israel may go too far this time and help may come from an unexpected source--not the US. Of course, this may just be a hope.
hack89
(39,171 posts)why do you think this is the incident that will finally mobilize the world? Just curious.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)I don't know if you are talking about that or a war, but I think sanctions would be enough to motivate change in Israel's case. They already have some moderate support to do so from within and strong support from liberal Jews internationally.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)believe the Pals have many more followers than other assaulted peoples. I have watched the demonstrations all over France and now England, and other less populous countries. I don't see this for the Syrians. We should know soon. But I believe we have different positions on Israel so we probably can't discuss it without biases.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)That is not nothing, unless anything short of war is nothing to you. Nobody is asking for a war with Israel on this site. I don't think many are even asking for sanctions. Just something less than unconditional support for human rights violations.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)to me than sanctions. Okay? Thank you for your time.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Or Syria and not Israel? If the latter, than your previous argument of equivalence makes no sense.
There is no equivalence anyway. Syria has been much more violent because much more people are fighting on both sides. Military involvement is a bad idea anyway because going to war on behalf of one side will not stop either side from fighting(Syria). It would just amplify the bloodshed until there is an eventual victor.
Or was your comment just unthought-out rhetoric?
Probably the last one.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)don't follow your "argument of equivalence" now or in your previous post. My thoughts are mine. You are welcome to yours. I'll suppress any token insults.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Real pressure has not been applied yet.
It seemed to me that you were trying to equate the situation in Syria with that of Israel. But they are very different.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)the situation in Syria for various reasons, one of which was the US's supplying of weapons to rebel groups there that we are fighting elsewhere. Makes all seem unusual to me. I don't think international pressure will have a lasting effect on Israel--or maybe an immediate one. But I cannot fault you for your reasoning. It depends how much you have studied various countries.
William769
(55,147 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)127 Israeli minors have died
and
1383 Palestinian minors have died
http://www.btselem.org/statistics
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Makes me wonder how many would have died without the Iron dome?
How many would have died if Israel didn't knock out 200 missile launchers, underground tunnels and piles of missiles. With no advance warning.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)that 121 of those deaths occurred in the period between 9/29/2000 and 12/26/2008 well prior to Iron Dome
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)also all but one of the 6 between 12/26/08 and 5/31/14 occurred in the West Bank where Iron Dome does not operate
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)that is about right for Israel.
reddread
(6,896 posts)what are your thoughts?
William769
(55,147 posts)You may not like my thoughts, but there it is.
reddread
(6,896 posts)who needs to stop the rockets the most?
I appreciate your thoughts, why would you assume
I "dont like them"?
William769
(55,147 posts)Which certain people just refuse to accept Israel is on board for it. I don't blame them one damn bit for what they are doing.
And who needs to stop the rockets the most is the side that is losing and will continue to lose.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)ddddd
reddread
(6,896 posts)if they are being outkilled 11 to 1, and refuse to accept their fate and capitulate,
does that mean they are insane,
or simply committed to their own interests?
At what ratio do you expect they will recover their sanity?
maybe Israel needs to step it up and get things over with?
what do you think about that? Is there hope in greater disparity of
child murders?
William769
(55,147 posts)If one side refuse's to sit down at the table, I am not going to tell the other side to bad you will just have to live with rockets coming at you.
I am done here, you have your opinion and I have mine. Fortunately for me, mine is the correct one.
Have a nice day.
reddread
(6,896 posts)you enjoy your safety.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Israel can now do what ever it wishes?
reddread
(6,896 posts)Nihil
(13,508 posts)> The long-sought realization of some rights for some gays should not blind us
> to the struggles against racism in Europe and the United States, or
> to the Palestinians insistence on a land to call home.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/23/opinion/pinkwashing-and-israels-use-of-gays-as-a-messaging-tool.html?_r=0
I suspect certain people would have a whole different opinion on which particular
numbers were "meaningless" if their chosen sacred cow was on the receiving end
of the Israeli attacks ...
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)of land with the enemy closing in from all around, with dead men beside you and on top of you, some screaming for their mothers while gagging on their own blood would know. I've been there. Maybe you have too. Sometimes you can't give up even when logic says that may be the order.
Chemisse
(30,811 posts)that drives the Palestinians to continue to fight, against overwhelming odds.
FarrenH
(768 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)hours prior to Israel's Cabinet meeting where it was accepted?
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)If you're talking about these recent events.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)It was all very loving and considerate.
Why was the beach using those kids as human shields? Hmmm? Answer that, anti-Semites!!!
reddread
(6,896 posts)murderers.
murderers.
murderers.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)if they had accepted the cease fire instead of outright rejecting it and continuing to attack Israel with rockets, then those 4 people would still be alive.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)be in EXACTLY the place they are in now. Israel has gone too far this time. Soon it won't only Hamas firing rockets. There may be another H on scene, who will not be acquiescing while the enemy is in training mode this time.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)had accepted the cease fire?
Response to IronGate (Reply #16)
Post removed
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)Are we really using right wing lingo now? Did you hear that on the Mark Levin show?
7962
(11,841 posts)The palestinians are just as much Jordanian as they are anything else. When the partition re-creating Israel happened, it also created Jordan from the same land. Jordan promptly annexed more land. So any talk of Israel giving up land for a new country should also include Jordan doing the same, yet it NEVER does. Why? Why shouldnt Jordan add land to give a bigger state to them? The term palestinian was not used in essence until the British created the British Mandatory Palestine after WW1 using land seized from the Turks. Even the Arabs at the time did not agree with the creation because to them this area was southern Syria. There were even protests among other Arabs at the creation of a palestinian area. Only after France conquered Syria in '20 did Arabs all of a sudden start to consider a separate Muslim area and consider it "Palestine", because they had no liking for France of course. In '47 the palestinians were offered their own land at the same time, but they refused to accept it. There has never been a Palestinian king, monarch, president, etc.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)the PALS with respect to the takeover of their territory by Isreal would be exactly the same. Palestine has taken a final stand. Better to die as men then be enslaved by an enemy--particularly this enemy.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)I'd be hard pressed not to fire a rocket at your house.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Larkspur
(12,804 posts)I guess you can say that Hamas is Israel's Mujahedin or Frankenstein monster.
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)I want to stop any U.S. financial or any other type of support (including intelligence sharing) to both sides. If they want to kill one another then so be it. If they want to find a way to peacefully co-exist I am all for it.
But the time has come for the U.S. to walk away. This is not our fight. We are not, or should not be Israel's paymaster. They have resources to defend themselves. They should use them. And when they run out of bullets they should finance or find other means of defending themselves.
The Palestinians have an equal right to a homeland. The west felt sorry for the Jews after the holocaust and agreed to give them a homeland which pushed Palestinians off of land they had been farming or tending for hundreds of years. This is not unlike the U.S. treatment of the native peoples.
I understand the frustration of both sides. But our involvement isn't going to solve this. The two sides should be left alone to kill one another off (not my preferred solution) or to resolve their differences.
I do not want any more of my tax money going to fund Israel's killing of Palestinians or aid that ends up in the hands of Hamas militants. I want that money going to feed and care for our poor and our veterans, rebuild our highways and bridges, provide health care for our people, invest in education, etc.
msongs
(67,405 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)fireflysky46
(224 posts)There is so much link now between Hamas and Russia.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)fireflysky46
(224 posts)Hamas head to make diplomatic trip to Moscow http://toi.sr/T5QUma via @timesofisrael
reddread
(6,896 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)They will not let Hamas rain missiles on their country. What country would stand by and let that happen.?
So far the Iron dome has stopped 87% of Hamas missiles!
Today 5:40 PM, the 'beach area' that was warned for a couple of days-
"5:40 P.M. According to the IDF, since the resumption of strikes on the Gaza Strip, the Israel Air Force has attacked some 30 targets across the Strip. Among the targets were twenty underground launchers, tunnels, an ammunition depot, and the house of an Islamic Jihad official. The IDF says the strikes were carried out in response to the barrages of rockets fired at Israeli territory. (Gili Cohen) "
ref LIVE UPDATES http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.605161
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)When you get a chance, you might want to read this from Moti Shefer as conveyed to progressive radio.
http://prn.fm/iron-dome-bluff-says-israeli-defense-expert-moti-shefer/
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)only looks like it works. It's all a mirage.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)And Hamas rockets are not the root cause. We all know what it is.
fireflysky46
(224 posts)Hamas head to make diplomatic trip to Moscow http://toi.sr/T5QUma via @timesofisrael
arcane1
(38,613 posts)fireflysky46
(224 posts)Strategies that are not in their own advantage.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)Netanyahoo a message that says, he, Putin, strongly suggests you do not attack Palestine?
fireflysky46
(224 posts)And you know why, or not....
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)US, that blinks on what to do, which allows Putin to be more aggressive in Ukraine. Is this what you think?
fireflysky46
(224 posts)Of your best president the US got in the US History !
But the issue is that Obama have some issue to deal with the after Cold-War, it's not just him, the Bush too don't get it. In face of Erika.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)dd
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)in effectively expelling the Palestinians, just as the Romans succeeded in expelling the Jews. Life will go on, and Palestinians will forget about it all, just as Jewish people did.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)Palestine will be Israel's....but this time before the final battle.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)just like the Jewish people did.
More seriously, it's such an obvious parallel that you gotta wonder if the logic the Israelis are using here is out of the Twilight Zone.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)the Masonic Agenda.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)Same btw applies to Iberia/Sepharad/al Ándalus/Spain and (some of) their people(s), it seems ...
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Joke, right?
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Leading, in all likelihood, to future bloodshed. Obviously, one always hopes for peace and reconciliation, regardless of how horribly one side in a dispute persecutes the other side. But doesn't seem like that is the path taken, historically.
Tetris_Iguana
(501 posts)Sure a small subset of Palestinians will continually yearn for the old days, but most will integrate or migrate and move on with their lives.
Peace through strength
(Which btw is strongly rooted in the FDR and Andrew Jackson tradition)
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Xolodno
(6,395 posts)...the survivors became Hamas recruits.
The Jewish peacemakers understand this and want to find a way to end this.
The Jewish war-lords (like Bibi) understand this and look at this as an excuse to exterminate them.
Peacemakers understand sooner or later, the world's stomach for this will end and turn against them.
War-lords don't understand and think they can retake everything at the height of Solomon's Kingdom.
To a peacemaker, life is precious.
To a warlord, they think anyone not like them is a dog.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)
Witness to a shelling: first-hand account of deadly strike on Gaza port
"The first projectile hit the sea wall of Gaza City's little harbour a little after four o'clock. As the smoke from the explosion thinned, four figures could be seen running, ragged silhouettes, legs pumping furiously along the wall. Even from a distance of 200 metres, it was obvious that three of them were children.
Jumping off the harbour wall, they turned on to the beach, attempting to cross the short distance to the safety of the Al-Deira hotel, base for many of the journalists covering the Gaza conflict.
They waved and shouted at the watching journalists as they passed a little collection of brightly coloured beach tents, used by bathers in peacetime. It was there that the second shell hit the beach, those firing apparently adjusting their fire to target the fleeing survivors. As it exploded, journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: 'They are only children!'"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/witness-gaza-shelling-first-hand-account
reddread
(6,896 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)We have a winner.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)That is why the U.S. wasn't put up in front of The Hague. If you are not a member, they don't have jurisdiction.
reddread
(6,896 posts)accountability being what it is and all
"off the table"
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Warrants against American leaders would, sadly, be unenforceable under current conditions. But Israel is not the United States.
I can see Netanyahu living to stand trial at the Hague, even if Cheney and Bush manage to continue dodging their certain guilt until the final exit.
FarrenH
(768 posts)Spain and Canada being among them. So that's not entirely true.
tjl148
(185 posts)We have winner.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Because a group they classify as "terrorists" does it too?
That is what I call a morality-free argument.
just pointing out you should have added Hamas to the list of winners.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I meant "winner" in reference to the suggestion by an earlier poster that Israel's actions were a war crime. I meant he was correct, Israel's action in killing those boys does constitute a war crime.
tjl148
(185 posts)I was just correcting your oversight in not including Hamas as war criminals. Of course, you do realize they are war criminals of the worst kind.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)And the poor families who lost them.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Israeli terrorists blow up four kids on a beach for no good reason.