Senate derails Army bid to take Guard helicopters

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-EXCITE

By LOLITA C. BALDOR

FORT RUCKER, Ala. (AP) — The Army has lost an initial Senate skirmish over a hotly disputed plan to take Apache attack helicopters away from National Guard units in a budget-cutting move that has infuriated governors and state military leaders.

The proposal, which would transfer dozens of the sleek Apache combat aircraft to active-duty units and give larger, multiuse Black Hawk helicopters to the Guard, has gotten high-level support at the Pentagon, including a visit to the Army's aviation center at Fort Rucker last week by Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.

But the war-fighting arguments and billions of dollars in cost savings haven't been enough to overcome lawmakers' staunch support for their state units and their view that after 13 years of war, active-duty and Guard battalions must be interchangeable. Guard units deployed and fought in the Apaches in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they don't want to give up their flashier ride in exchange for the Black Hawk, which is the military's dependable workhorse.

Military leaders argue that Black Hawks are more useful for the Guard units, which can use them for medical evacuations and other emergencies and disaster relief in their states.

FULL story at link.



FILE - This Oct. 8, 2011, photo released by the U.S Army National Guard shows an AH-64D Apache Longbow with the South Carolina Army National Guard releasing flares during a test over Camp Tajo, Iraq. The Army has lost an initial Senate skirmish over a hotly disputed plan to take Apache attack helicopters away from National Guard units in a budget cutting move that has infuriated governors and state military leaders. (AP Photo/U.S. Army National Guard, Tracci Dorgan)


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140716/us--helicopter_dispute-060aa479ed.html

[Historic NY]

1. Up is down, right is wrong....

the army is correct. A 2 seat attack helicopter is useless in peace time activities in a NG unit.

[mopinko]

5. ^^^this^^^

wtf people.
and what a bogus claim. like the army cant train apache pilots.

i've got an idea. lets stop using the guard to fight wars.
plenty for them to do here.

[Veilex]

9. Agreed...

Those Apache's can and should be used in the kind of strategic deployments that national guard members are not, and should not, be deployed to.

[awake]

2. Because a AH-64D Apache Longbow is need to put down the riots after a Climate Change disaster

Why give help when you can use a gun

[TwilightGardener]

3. Why do guard units need their own attack helicopters?

Surely it would be cheaper to send them for Apache training at active duty bases? Just one more way Congress protects its own interests and refuses to let the Pentagon find its own savings--has nothing to do with actual defense, and everything to do with parochial interests and the Guard lobby.

[hack89]

11. They deploy with their Apaches

It has nothing to do with training. These are combat units.

[TwilightGardener]

16. Sorry, I agree with the decision to take this out of the Guard. Give them Blackhawks,

they can use them in home state operations (which makes absolutely perfect sense) AND when called to active duty.

[Mopar151]

4. Remember NH (Bircher) Gov. Mel Thompson?

Wanted to arm the Guard with nuclear weapons. No foolin'.

[Chan790]

7. It must have pissed him off that CT Nat. Guard had biological weapons.

They didn't really but they did have protection duties related to Plum Island in the case of disaster or invasion which required them to have limited access and knowledge of the facilities and ongoing work.

[Chan790]

6. I'll see it the states' way, if and only-if..

they can give me one legitimate reason or potential mission objective for which they need Apaches and for which the Black Hawk will not suffice. Hell...not that it should ever come to this, but Black Hawks are even sufficient for riot-control as long as the mobs aren't armed with Stinger missiles like in Black Hawk Down.

[hack89]

12. The Guard has been fighting in Iraq and Afganastan for a decade now

They are part of the Army, not a part time state organization.

[Chan790]

14. That's misutilization of the National Guard.

We should be acting to stop that, not apportioning them combat helicopters so they can better serve in a role that they're not meant for.

[hack89]

15. The NG has fought in all of America's wars with one exception

Vietnam Nam. Fighting wars is their reason for being.

[Bandit]

17. IMO that is not true

Their reason for being is to help their state in natural disasters and or law enforcement. They have been used inappropriately every single time they were sent off to fight in some war other than WWI or WWII. They are meant to stay in their state. Why have an Army at all if National Guard does it all.

[hack89]

18. You need to read federal law regarding the Army

The role of the NG as been clearly defined for decades. Why do think the Federal government spends billions on state of the art combat equipment for them?

[freshwest]

8. How many anti-NWO GOP officials want military helicopters in the USA?

One might think they protested too much about freedom, liberty, the NSA and gun rights all the while wanting more lethal weaponry here at home. They sure loved it when Bush was in office, didn't they? Not really worried about what they convinced their voting block to fear, huh? Where are you, Hatriots? What con artists!

[melm00se]

10. on the one hand

I can see the argument that the Apaches are not useful for the majority of NG uses.

OTOH, if NG units are deployed in combat roles using Apaches, training with them to keep their skills current is also important.

[hack89]

13. The NG are part of the Army and routinely deploy for combat. Nt

[jmowreader]

19. I have the perfect solution

First problem: Apaches are completely useless for civil defense. If you wanted to solve the Cliven Bundy problem, or an Occupy gathering, with overwhelming force you can get the job done just as effectively with $25,000 81mm mortars as you can with $18 million helicopters. Maybe more because mortars can be carried by foot soldiers. OTOH there's no cargo area on an Apache and it doesn't have a hoist, so you can't slingload a water trailer or carry rations into a disaster area. (This is one place we seriously fucked up: the equally bad-ass Mi-24 Hind helicopter is more like an armed Black Hawk - it can carry troops and it can slingload.)

Second problem: if helicopters aren't flying they're being worked on.

So, the third problem is: if you're always putting parts on the thing and you can't use it for anything but killing people on the other side of the world, it's costing your state tons of money for no reason.

My recommendation: direct-exchange the Apaches for AH-64 synthetic flight trainers and Black Hawks, with the understanding that the active unit the Apaches go to becomes direct-support for the losing National Guard unit in the event of hostilities. We did the same basic thing during the Cold War with the Prepositioning of Material Configured in Unit Sets program: the US-based units who'd go to Europe in the event of a shooting war would fly in with their duffel bags and there'd already be tanks there for them. You can rotate the NG pilots into the AD units for live flight training a few times a year, and the GOP governors wouldn't have to allocate resources toward supporting something they can't actually use.