California poised to crack down on water wasters-- $500 fines possible

[alp227]

Source: San Jose Mercury News

SACRAMENTO -- Californians who waste water outdoors by drenching their lawns or washing a car without a nozzle on the hose amid the state's historic drought may soon face fines of up to $500 a day.

The state Water Resources Control Board is set to meet next week to consider emergency water conservation regulations. If approved, the rules would allow law enforcement officials and water agency employees to issue fines starting Aug. 1.

"We don't know when it will rain again. It's prudent to act as if it won't," said Felicia Marcus, chairwoman of the State Water Resources Control Board.

Although a large majority of California's water is used to irrigate Central Valley farms, these new regulations would target urban water users. In some cities and towns, more than half of daily water use is for lawns and landscaping, Marcus said.

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_26116351/california-drought-wasting-water-outdoors-fines

[freshwest]

1. Will the golf courses, frackers and mining firms get exemptions? Sacred capitalist cows.

[NutmegYankee]

3. Gotta protect the "people" who matter.

...citizens united...

[freshwest]

11. Speaking of Citizens United...

"We the People" are on the move!

The Senate will soon vote on an amendment to overturn Citizens United. History is calling!

By Jim Hightower - 7/5/2014

So many absurdities abound in our lives that there's a whole body of philosophical thought called "absurdism," as well as an entire catalogue of plays called the "theater of the absurd." And then there's Antonin Scalia.

This sour, scowling, and snarky Supreme Court Justice personifies the dictionary definition of absurd: "Utterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish or false."

A right-wing dogmatist and extreme judicial activist who's full of himself, Scalia has been the court's chief monkey-wrencher for corporate interests, constantly messing with the Constitution to enthrone plutocratic money over our people's democratic politics. By black-robed fiat, he and his four fellow corporatists on the bench have managed to twist language and pervert nature itself by declaring that corporations are "people" and money is "speech." Thus, in their now infamous Citizens United edict of 2010, the five decreed that these huge, lifeless, paper constructs--without brains, hearts, souls, or tongues--must be free to "speak" in our elections by spending unlimited (and undisclosed) amounts of their shareholders' money to determine who wins public office...



A lot more at the link:

http://www.hightowerlowdown.org/node/3696

Money doesn't talk. It swears.

~ Bob Dylan

I hope Democrats get this done. They are already trying to get around Scalia's last shenanigans on women's rights with Hobby Lobby.

Nothing good can be expected from Scalia on women. He said, or at least as quoted on DU, that women had no rights under the Constitution.

He also said about the buffer zone case, that women had been getting 'special rights' with buffer zones. Sounds very familiar. But he's only doing his job:

[Uncle Joe]

22. I'm recommending the OP for your post, freshwest.

P.S. Perhaps you should make it a thread of its' own.

[freshwest]

23. Okay, I'll did it. There seems to be a lot of despair at times. See here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025220205

[rickyhall]

6. Oh, they can handle $500 fines, I think.

[Ecumenist]

9. THANK YOU!! Golf courses? A COLOSSAL WASTE of land and resources....

[freshwest]

12. Playgrounds of kings, it was once said, I think. Yes, they think they are kings...

How are you doing, Ecumenist?

Haven't seen many posts from you until recently and hope all is well in your world.

[Ecumenist]

15. Hiya. Everything's peachy keen, surprisingly enough. lol....HOW are you fairing these days?

Nice to hear from you.

[temporary311]

2. Drastic steps probably do need to be taken.

Ban fracking and new construction of private pools, too. Offer tax credits/incentives for getting current private pools filled in.

[Throd]

5. Pools are not a problem.

Properly maintained pools don't use a lot of water.

From what I see around greater Sacramento, poorly aimed municipal sprinkler heads waste a lot of water. A few days ago I saw some watering the blacktop of an elementary school in Citrus Heights. A torrent of water was going right into the gutter.

[Ecumenist]

10. AMEN, Throd. I live in North Natomas and see this happening ALL THE TIME... spraying directly

into the STREET!!!

[Adsos Letter]

13. Hear, Hear!

Over here in Solano county I'm not giving my yard half of the water it would like, while The City of Fairfield has some of the sprinklers in the green belt next to us shooting straight up like Old Faithful.

I went down south to Highland (by Redlands) a couple of weeks ago...the sub-division we visited in was nothing but emerald green lawns.

[Ecumenist]

16. AIN'T THAT A B#TCH?!! I'm from SoCal and am QUITE familiar with the EMERALD green

lawns and water FLOWING down the street like urban rivers and creeks. I believe they forget that their water comes from US. It just doesn't just appear out of nowhere from the WATER FAIRY....smdh My lawn looks like STRAW with slight green hear the tips of the dried grass.

[Throd]

17. We got rid of our lawn 4 years ago. I am saving A LOT of money.

I let the lawn fry out and removed it with a rented scraping machine from Lowe's. Then we put down weed block and had 4 yards of small river cobble trucked in from Roseville for about $160.00. We used larger river rock to make planter beds and filled them with drought tolerant plants. Now I have a very attractive low maintanence front yard that needs little water.

I see more lawns shrinking or completely eliminated as water gets more expensive in EDH.

[Adsos Letter]

25. We'll be doing that in back starting next spring

The back lawn and a slightly sloping bit of hill are officially dead, at this point (with the exception of a few tomatoes, squash, cucumbers, and pole beans on the slope).

We'll replace about half of the dead lawn area with flagstone patio, put some large raised beds for vegetables on the other half with gravel paths in between, and plant the hillside with drought-tolerant shrubs.

I've been remodeling this place for the last three years, and that's my last project.

[sandpan]

7. Time to ban the coca-cola company!

Why does coca-cola uses 1.5 liters of water to make 1 liter of their very unhealthy product? Of course, stop the fracking industry, that's common sense because they pollute everything. I want to know why empty strip malls, road medians and golf courses are ever allowed to use public water? A golf course can find another source for water, for example, they can drill a well somewhere on their vast land holdings. Last, existing pools use less water than a lawn; therefore, before the water company fines me $500, they can answer some of these questions and then they have to pass a law. Water and politics is local. My local water district always gets nervous when I attend their meetings.

[JDPriestly]

4. Perhaps they should place a temporary moritorium on building new housing,

bar fracking and start desalinating and purifying sea water.

Seas are rising, and we could use that water for lawns and other things. I understand that some countries including Israel and, I believe, Qatar are desalinating ocean water.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-13/israel-desalination-shows-california-not-to-fear-drought.html

http://www.waterworld.com/articles/wwi/print/volume-27/issue-1/regional-spotlight/middle-east-africa/will-qatar-turn.html

I understand that the challenge is finding the energy to use in the desalination process. But that should be easy here in Southern California. We need to have a massive program of rooftop solar units -- everywhere. I've seen solar units to cover parking lots also. That would be effective.

The big problem for the US is getting people to work together to solve our problems. The anti-government philosophy is what sets our technology back. Israel and Qatar are able to organize themselves to use technology to solve water shortages. We will either learn to do that or perish.

Those who think that sitting in their homes or on some property out in the country with a load of guns so that they can "defend" themselves from the "gubmint" are big fools. Problems that cannot be solved with guns, problems that can only be solved by massive civil engineering projects financed by the government (because they must be done at the lowest possible cost for humanitarian reasons and should not be for profit) are going to catch them by surprise.

That is why only government can solve a recurring battle with the environment like California's water crisis or tje navigability of the Mississippi.

We need to unite behind our government, not fight the very idea of government.

That's why California needs to once again elect a legislature that has as big a Democratic majority as possible. The Republicans refusal to solve the problems that can only be solved through cooperation and good government will lead us to disaster after disaster.

Let's remember. The Erie Canal became a public project. Private capital could not build it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie_Canal_Commission

Please let your neighbors know that the key to solving our drought problem is voting for Democrats in November.

[LeftyMom]

8. Desalination isn't much of an answer.

It rarely works well on a large scale, it's hideously expensive, and most importantly it uses a ton of power. In a state where a lot of the power is generated by hydro to begin with, using fresh water to make power to make fresh water is every bit as stupid as it sounds.

[happyslug]

18. Actually, there are ways to produce fresh water from sea water cheaply.

First is pump the sea water to the Desert and leave it evaporate do to conditions of the desert. Over the water you have glass panes that prevent the evaporated water from escaping and you design the glass cover so the water collects and then drips into collection lanes that are sloped down hill so the fresh water flows into a major collection pipe to be transported where needed.

A variations of this is just pump the sea water to an inland "salt lake" and just leave nature takes its course. The salt will remain, the water will enter the atmosphere and sooner or later drop as rain. The problem is the rain will be near the area where the salt lake is located, but you can not have everything.

The key is using the sun to do the work except for pumping the water to the desert. In Southern California there are several promising sites for such projects.

Death Valley is one such spot, it is estimated that if you filled Death Valley with 12 feet deep of water, do to the heat in the valley it would be gone within a year. Thus an excellent location for using the sun to evaporate salt water and capture it as fresh water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Valley

The Salton Sea is another area where water can quickly be evaporated in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea

The Salton sea is the most interesting of the two. First, it is a lake formed around 1900, but has been evaporating ever since. Second it is BELOW sea level, so that no pumping of water is needed, if a pipe or canal is built from the Gulf of California to the Salton sea, you can generate electricity do to the difference in height (Salton Sea is BELOW sea level). Third. if the West Antarctic Ice Sheet DOES ever Collapse, the Salton Sea may join the Gulf of California (or the Sea of Cortez, its older and alternative name).

If the West Antarctic Ice Sheet Collapses, the world wide sea levels will raise at least 7 meter or about 21 feet. That would leave just 3 feet in elevation (and then only in places) between world wide sea level in the Gulf of California AND the Valley the Salton Sea is in. i.e. if sea water gets through that last three meters, the Salton sea will become an extension of the Gulf of California. The Gulf of California would reach I-10 in Indio California. Mexicali Mexico, may or may not be flooded (The Gulf of California would extend right through Mexicali if it does reach the Salton Sea).

Here is a map set for a 7 meter increase in world wide sea level, move the map to Southern California and see what happens in Southern California is such a situation.

http://flood.firetree.net/

California would suffer some severe problems do to such an increase in world wide sea levels, through not on most of its coast. Most of the Coast raise rapidly from the sea shore so most beaches would be flooded, but not much else on the coasts. On the other hand the Salton Sea would be flooded AND so would Sacramento to Stockton California. Don't worry, the East Coast and Gulf Coast will be even worse off, for their shore line rises slowly from the sea. For Example, the White House gets to be right by the sea, as does Congress sitting in the Capitol.

Please note, when using the above program, be careful, it does show inland areas that will NOT connect to the sea as being under water. It does this for Death Valley, but even if the Greenland Ice Sheet, and the East Antarctic Ice Sheet melt in addition to the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, Death Valley will still be isolated from the sea so no sea water will get to it to raise its water level.

Thus if the earth around Mexicali holds, the Salton Sea will NOT get water from the Gulf of California. My problem is in places the earth is NOT a SOLID 10 meter above present day sea level, in places it is less then Seven Meters, which is the expected increase in world wide sea level if the West Antarctic Ice Sheet collapses.

Now, 70% of all fresh water is in the EAST Antarctic Ice Sheet, another 10% is in the Greenland Ice Sheet. Both of these are located above sea level and only expected to melt slowly do to global warming.

The Godzilla of Global Warming is the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. A little big bigger then the Greenland Ice sheet (and a lot smaller then the EAST Antarctic Ice Sheet) but it is grounded BELOW sea level and as such affected directly by any increase in Sea Temperatures AND capable of rapid collapse, i.e. break from its base and float out to sea and becoming either one huge Ice Berg or part of the Ice Shelves that surround Antarctica. This can happened within days not decades; increasing world wide sea level within weeks not years. If this occurs it will occur when the Antarctic Ice Shelves are at they smallest, around the first day of Spring, March 21st of each year (This includes a couple of weeks before and after that date, thus I tend to say March 1st to April 15th of each year). Remember March 21st is the last day of Southern Hemisphere's Summer, thus the day weather turns colder in the Antarctic.

Just a comment that the Salton Sea may see increase water from the Gulf of California within our life time, even if we do nothing. On the other hand, it is an ideal location to pump water to leave the sun evaporate the water, separating the water from the salt. The expense will be getting the water to and from the Salton Sea, but given its location NOT that much of a problem, unlike Death Valley, where you actually have to pump the water uphill.

[JDPriestly]

20. Thank you, happy slug. Great explanation.

[happyslug]

24. You have huge environmental problems if you use Death Valley

Death Valley has NEVER been connected to the sea is several million years, but the Salton Sea is another story. The Salton Sea is a product of the Colorado River, it is an area where the Colorado River use to over flow into during floods. The Hoover Dam (completed in 1935) now prevents such floods, so it is slowly disappearing. Given it has NOT been isolated from the sea or the Colorado River for more then 100 years, the Salton Sea has few, if any living organism unique to the Salton Sea (unlike Death Valley which as several).

My problem with the Salton Sea is that is it there, it can be used, but the up front costs are huge, but the operating costs, i.e. keeping the system running, are minimal. You have to replace things damaged by the salt and broken glass every so often, but no costs to run the system for the Salton Sea is below sea level and water can just flow via a pipe or canal from the Sea of Cortez.

We are dealing with huge up front costs, which a lot of communities do not want to incur (i.e. "It will NOT come into existence while I am in office, so I can not use it to show the voters to vote for me, instead it will come on line during the rule of my successors who will claim all the credit, but not have to spend a political dime on the project&quot . This problem is a constant problem when it comes to long range projects. In public transit, buses are preferred for while they last 1/2 as long as Streetcars, they tend to be cheaper up front. Streetcars are more expensive up front, but cheaper in the long run, first electricity is cheaper then diesel. Second electric motors last 2-3 times as long as diesel engines. The problem is most politicians are looking to the next election not 20 years from now, thus opt for the cheaper bus solution.

People are looking for a quick short term solution, using oil to create fresh water is a quick solution. Pumping out aquifers is another quick solution. The problem with both, is they are expensive AND not really a good long term solution. Right now, the politicians in California are looking for short term solutions and will try any that look promising before they adopt the long term policy that is needed.

[JDPriestly]

19. We have the sunshine to produce a ton of solar power. If Germany with its

dismal weather can provide 1/3 of its energy from renewables, we can certainly produce enough solar energy to desalinate water.

[happyslug]

26. California and Washington can work together on this issue.

Right now, California import electricity from Washington and Oregon, for those two states have the Rivers and water flow to maintain dams that can provide the power. Hydro electrical power is the easiest power to turn on and off, thus in much of the country tends to be kept back for peak usage periods.

In the Case of California, it has huge deserts that call for Solar electrical production. California should max this out and maybe even export it to Oregon and Washington for use during the day time. At night reverse the flow of electricity by turning on the dams. The two systems working in conjunction can provide most of the power people need. Wind can be added as an add on, to provide power when it can. Keep the Hydro back to when it is needed, i.e. sun is down, wind is dead.

In some locations in the East, excess power produced by coal and nuclear plants are used to pump water uphill for later use to propel hydro generators, again for the reason hydro is the easiest form of electrical generation to turn on or off. Thus at night when power is not needed, the excess coal and nuclear power is used to pump up the water, for use during the day when the coal and nuclear plants are NOT enough to provide all the power needed. I give the eastern use as an example of using excess power to provide a way to "save" that electrical power for later use. In the case of hydro, using the excess electricity to pump water up hill, that can later be released and generate electrical power when it is needed.

If and when California gets some water, California may want to do something similar with any excess solar electricity that is produced. In the mean time, California may want to use some of its newly made Solar power to pump salt water uphill to be released when additional power is needed (the system would have to be a "Closed" System, a sealed pipe for the Salt water to be pumped through to the holding tank, then another sealed pipe for the water to be released, this second sealed pipe going back into the ocean.

In such a small project the system may try my use of solar power to generate fresh water in addition to electricity. The system would be expensive, but it is doable any where near the sea. The further from the sea the more pumping needed and thus increased costs. Today the Salton Sea is to far from the Gulf of Cortez for anyone but the State or Utility to try it between the Gulf of Cortez and the Salton Sea, but if someone is willing to spend the money, it is doable. The big issue is the cost. Pumping water is cheaper then drilling a hole, but once a hole is drilled and lined no further costs need be spent (With pumping, the cost of pumping will be constant).

Thus I do not see any individuals using the Salton Sea as an option, the distances are to great and that involves millions of dollars in investments. On the other hand, a short system on the coast using solar power to provide the pumping power doing daylight, then releasing the stored water for electricity at night is doable. Can not be to far from the coast, but it is doable.

Here is the east, if I had an home (I presently rent), installing Solar panels look more and more the way to go. Excess electrical power can be used to store electricity in a water tower (I am looking at buying farmland, thus this is an option) and that water released to produce what electrical power I need at night. Combined with a wind generator, you can be off the grid without the use of any exotic electrical shortage devices.

Such a combination is what the US needs to get off its addiction to oil. It will take time and maybe another oil scare, but the US has to make the adjustments.

[Xolodno]

29. Actually, they are working on that.

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25859513/nations-largest-ocean-desalination-plant-goes-up-near

[quadrature]

14. better idea --> water on/off rotation

stop wasting water
on the lawn

[JDPriestly]

21. That won't help much because at least in my neighborhood our lawns are mostly

drought resistant. So we have already done that to a great extent. It could help some. But it won't make much of a difference. I think we will be asked to bathe less often and wash our clothes less frequently before long.

[flamingdem]

27. LA only has water for 12-18 months more

If it doesn't rain we're toast!

[yuiyoshida]

28. It does seem like

California is slowly becoming a desert.

[Gormy Cuss]

30. Most of populated California is desert.

Without the system of reservoirs and canals to channel water from far away water sources most of the big cities in the state would still be small towns.