UPDATED: Big Win For Gun Control Groups: Target Bans Guns In Its Stores

[DonViejo]

Last edited Wed Jul 2, 2014, 01:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: TPM

ERIC LACH – JULY 2, 2014, 10:08 AM EDT

Target has finally made its decision about firearms in its stores. The retail giant is telling its customers to leave their guns at home.

"Our approach has always been to follow local laws, and of course, we will continue to do so," Target interim CEO John Mulligan said in a statement published by Target's in-house online magazine on Wednesday. "But starting today we will also respectfully request that guests not bring firearms to Target – even in communities where it is permitted by law."

Mulligan acknowledged what he called a "complicated issue," but said that, ultimately, he believes that guns in the stores "creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create."

With the move, Target became the latest in a recent flurry of retail chains to ban guns in its stores. Target stores, particularly in Texas, had in recent months become the focus of both guns rights and gun control activists, and both sides had used the stores and their parking lots as stages for gatherings and demonstrations. The Michael Bloomberg-backed group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense, which had been calling for Target to explicitly keep guns out of its stores, took credit for Target's decision on Wednesday.

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/target-bans-guns

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UPDATE:

Gun Rights Activists Insist Target's Gun Ban Is 'Not A Ban'

ERIC LACH – JULY 2, 2014, 12:15 PM EDT

Dealt a loss by Target on Wednesday, gun rights activists were trying to find a consolation prize. The retail chain's newly announced policy asking customers to keep guns out of its stores is not a gun "ban," the activists said. It was a respectful "request."

"Open Carry Texas regrets Target's decision to 'respectfully request that guests not bring firearms to Target,'" Open Carry Texas, the group most associated with the fight over guns in chain stores, said in a Facebook post on Wednesday. "While this is not a ban on legally possessed firearms in its stores, we will continue to honor our months long policy of not taking long arms into Target stores or any other business."

This is a distinction without a difference. In his statement on Wednesday, Target interim CEO John Mulligan said that the company had decided to "respectfully request that guests not bring firearms to Target – even in communities where it is permitted by law," and further added that "bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create."

It is true that Open Carry Texas announced weeks ago that its members would no longer take long guns, like semiautomatic rifles, into corporate businesses unless they were invited to do so. The group had made a habit of stopping at chain restaurants during demonstrations, and the change came after several chains took steps similar to the one taken by Target on Wednesday.

more
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/target-ban-open-carry-texas

[OKNancy]

1. kick

[SansACause]

2. How is this a "win for gun control groups"?

Is it really just "gun control groups" who don't want to be shopping alongside a guy wearing camo and carrying an AR-15 assault rifle?

[DonViejo]

4. The gun control groups have been applying the pressure on Target...

to ban. Target agreeing = win

[onehandle]

9. So concern about gun nuttery is just about a narrow band of 'fringe groups?'

And not normal people who might have a concern about codpieced idiots around their families?

Just wondering...

[DonViejo]

14. Just what are you "just wondering"?

Gun control groups are comprised of everyday folk and do not constitute "fringe groups."

[onehandle]

15. I got the impression that the person I was responding to was implying that.

Thus, the quotes.

They can let me know if I am wrong.

[DonViejo]

18. Ah, okay, it wasn't clear to me just who you were addressing your comment to.

Apologies for misunderstanding.

[LynneSin]

3. Open Gun Carriers are Terrorists

They have no need to carry these powerful rifles out in the public. And from looking at the faces of the last few folks who used a rifle to do a mass shooting, I can't tell them from the sane open carry people. They all look the same.

Why should I be in fear when I shop? The nature of Terrorism is when one group of people commit acts that create fear and terror in another group of people. Just because these open carry idiots are White Christian doesn't make them any less of a Terrorist!

[TeamPooka]

6. +1000

[onehandle]

11. Yep. Terrorism doesn't mean a pulled trigger or an exploded bomb.

Necessarily.

[calimary]

26. In my opinion, jerks like these who insist on parading around showing off their massacre machines

in view of innocent civilians and other non-combatants - forfeit their "right" to be considered "good guys with guns." NO good guy does that. NO good guy insists his or her hand-held death-tool should be inflicted on someone else's field of vision. I don't want to see that - EVER. Not around ME, not around my kids, not around my friends, not in my neighborhood, not ANYWHERE around where I shop or eat or walk the dog. Gunners - go to the damn gun-range if you simply must play with your damn death toys in public! If you do it anywhere else, you earn the "right" to be regarded as a domestic terrorist, and be openly described and referred to that way.

[LynneSin]

80. I know a few guys with serious gun collections and they are good guys...

They enjoy hunting and target shooting. But they see absolutely no reason to lug their guns around with them.

[RKP5637]

77. Extremely well said!

[Hoyt]

5. Good. Hope it's start of trend eventually impacting public toting and perception of gun fanciers.

[billh58]

33. Public perception of idiots

with guns in public is already taking a toll on the right-wing gun lobby's marketing. Gun sales are falling, and more and more retail operations are publicly speaking out (on behalf of their customers) against guns in their establishments.

The gun humpers are causing their own bad publicity, and gun control groups are reaping the benefits.

[Hekate]

7. KnR

[colsohlibgal]

8. Great News

I love shopping there so now I won't have to keep my eyes out for nutballs armed to the teeth.

[frazzled]

10. The law (in my state) says

That, while concealed weapons are prohibited in government buildings etc., private enterprises may chose to ban concealed weapons in their establishments by posting an official state sticker at their entrances. (Open carry is prohibited altogether).
So they could have done this earlier.

[billh58]

12. K&R!

Another win for sanity and public safety.

[IronGate]

27. How is this a win?

All Target is doing is "requesting", not banning open carry and they say nothing about concealed carry.

[IronGate]

17. Uhhhh, Target doesn't sell guns or ammo.

You're thinking of WalMart.

[ReRe]

23. Ah!

You're right. I assumed something without reading the article. My bad. Thanks for letting me know...

[IronGate]

25. No problem.

[VScott]

16. "Big win"? "ban"?

All I see is a simple "request" that guests not bring firearms to Target.

Nowhere in that press release is the word 'ban', 'banned' or 'prohibited' being used.

Same goes for Chipotle, Starbucks, Sonic, Chilis, Jack in the Box, and anywhere else the Demanding Moms have claimed a "big win" or "victory". In every case, it has always been a "request" or 'we ask that guests refrain from...'.

The business in question simply took the middle ground by stating 'we really don't want to get involved in this issue, and we take no position that supports or sides with the parties involved'.

Hardly a "big win"

[IronGate]

19. Nowhere in that press release is Target banning the carrying of firearms in it's stores.

They're requesting their customers not to carry them, but they're not banning them.
Personally, I would honor their request.
Also, they're still allowing concealed carry in their stores, hardly a win for the gun control groups.

The OP's headline is very misleading and untrue.

[onehandle]

21. That no hurt me gun likey

Me gun likey rains soupreen!

[6000eliot]

22. It's actually a very small win. Hardly a "win" at all.

[bvf]

41. Yes, very mealy-mouthed PR.

I don't give a crap if Open Carry says its member intend to comply. From my reading of this, nothing prevents them from not doing so, and all it takes is one dickless cretin to put the question to this "request."

[CreekDog]

24. This is a good thing.

It's definitely not appropriate to carry firearms in large, crowded department stores, without substantial justification, for example security or law enforcement personnel.

As for concealed carry, I oppose that except in exceptional circumstances.

[billh58]

29. +100

The gun humpers are attempting to claim that Target is doing this just for show, and that their heroes can still carry in Target stores. Sad.

[IronGate]

31. Target has said nothing about concealed carry,

so those with permits can still carry, all they addressed was open carry and even then, they didn't ban it, they requested no open carry, which is a good idea.

[onehandle]

61. A few years ago, I got a conceal carry gun humper thrown out of a mall.

I saw his holster. Alerted security. They asked him to take his gun outside.

Mothers nearby were shocked that this dickless gun nut was in their midst.

This was in a state where it was legal.

Gun carrying is not normal.

I would do it again. I will do it again.

Ultimately, there will be metal detectors everywhere, thanks to these codpiece fetishists.

[IronGate]

62. Yeah, so?

I could care less what you did, it doesn't impress me in the least.

[onehandle]

63. He looked a lot like this guy.

And thanks for kicking the thread.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IronGate]

66. You really shouldn't post selfies,

someone might recognize you.

[HockeyMom]

78. If enough of the store's customers complained,

and threatened to walk out and take their business elsewhere, the open carry person would be either asked to leave the store, or put his gun away in his car.

Security can, and does, ask some customers to leave the store when are creating a "nuisance" to the other shoppers. My daughter works undercover retail security. Security is not just there for shoplifters.

[JohninPA]

81. You are both sexist and anti-american

Why is someone exercising his or her constitutional rights "dickless"? Would it be ok for someone to respond that you are just an erratic female with a bleeding vagina and a hormone imbalance? See, stereotyoes are not fun when it is your ox being gored.

FWIW, I am not a fan of open carry. However I do have a concealed weapons permit. I seldom to never carry, but the laws for transporting firearms are so overbearing that the permit gives me a bit more legal cover when transporting firearms to the shooting range or hunting.

[McCamy Taylor]

28. I shop at Target. And if I see someone armed, I am walking out. So, this was a smart move

since I am more likely to spend money in Target than the guys strolling around showing off their big pieces.

[hlthe2b]

30. Target gets my business for sure.

[hack89]

32. There will still be plenty of guns in Target

they will simply be concealed.

I think open carry is moronic and I support Target's policy but this will not stop guns in the stores.

[Hoyt]

38. Yes, selfish gun lovers will still carry, ignoring wishes of Target and other patrons who prefer to

shop without armed yahoos. There are gun fanciers who need a gun in their pants to walk into Target.

[hack89]

40. I was thinking more of criminals and others that illegally carry

they are much more common than concealed carry permit holders.

[Hoyt]

42. Not nearly as common as the gun fanciers seem to believe.

[hack89]

43. So all those murders and other killings

are being done by legal gun owners with conceal carry permits? Have any facts to back that up?

[Hoyt]

45. Most of the gunz used started out as a legal purchase by some yahoo who probably already has

a boat load of guns. And, yes, "legal" gun owners murder, intimidate, wound, contribute to accidents, etc.

[hack89]

48. So tell me

What is the point of using the word gunz instead of guns? I have often wondered.

[Hoyt]

49. Just so simpletons ask that question. :) Cracks me up every time.

Have you noticed how often those fools from the Discussionist ask. Gives gun fanciers a way to dance around the pertinent facts of gun ownership/abuse in America. Gunzzzzz are a poxxxxx.

[hack89]

51. I have noticed you will never answer a question straight up

I also notice how you only focus on white gun owners. Why is that?

[IronGate]

52. He's also pissed that he got a 90 day time out at Discussionist

Last edited Wed Jul 2, 2014, 09:50 PM - Edit history (1)

for pretty much the same thing he's doing here.

[Hoyt]

57. Glad to know you are watching. What's your user name there?

[IronGate]

60. Watching?

Not likely, but you were so obvious that it was a foregone conclusion that you wouldn't last very long, and we were right.
See you back there in a few months.

[Hoyt]

56. Because they are the ones arming up and promoting more gunz in more places.

They are ones supporting right wing ideology with a gun on their hip. They are the ones who drool in gun stores, gun shows, etc. They are the obnoxious ones.

[hack89]

72. So people actually killing people is not what upsets you

Figures.

[billh58]

55. +100 n/t

[energumen]

34. I am not sure why this rates any type of announcement.

Target has basically done nothing except maybe make some people feel better. they could accomplish far more by simply :



Just put in on your door, no announcement needed and it has some force of law. Anyone legally carrying would simply go somewhere else. However it does not seem that they did this.

On edit (after a half dozen attempts to embed a picture):
or the more general :

[Niceguy1]

79. depends on local laws if they

Are allowed to prohibit concealed carry or not. And then if it is concealed how would you know????

[SecularMotion]

35. More good news today for gun control groups

Starting in September Google plans to block ads for guns, gun parts, and ammunition.

https://support.google.com/adwordspolicy/answer/6014299?hl=en

Our policy:

We want to help keep people safe both online and offline, so we don't allow the promotion of some products or services that cause damage, harm, or injury.

Here are some examples of products and services that we consider to be dangerous:

Guns & parts

Disapproval and suspension reason: "Guns & parts"

Functional devices that appear to discharge a projectile at high velocity, whether for sport, self-defense, or combat (Note that we err on the side of caution and apply this policy to sporting or recreational guns that can cause serious harm if misused, or that appear to be real guns.)

Examples: Handguns, rifles, shotguns, hunting guns, functioning antique guns, airsoft guns, paintball guns, bb guns

Any part or component that's necessary to the function of a gun or intended for attachment to a gun

Examples: Gun scopes, ammunition, ammunition clips or belts

[billh58]

37. +100

The American public is waking up to the public health issue of gun violence, and is demanding more responsibility from the business world about promoting guns and the right-wing gun culture. The business world is concerned about its bottom line, and will go with public opinion every time.

[BrotherIvan]

53. Me likey

[sinkingfeeling]

36. Good for Target!

[freshwest]

39. Good for TARGET. This should put the Libertarian wingnuts on notice about their other fetish:

PRIVATE PROPERTY!

They want roads, parks. schools and everything to be in private hands, destroying the freedom the Commons allows for networking. And if the owners say no to their speech, their right to travel freely, associate and agitate, hey, they asked for it!

They WILL lose their own rights, but think that's for those 'other people.' BZZZT! Wrong answer!

If you're not a full-fledged millionaire, guess who is the 'other people,' you gleeful members of the insane clown posse?

Yes, I'm talking to you, Bro, and not gonna feel sorry for you, because you wanted to take it from me and mine, first.

Sadly, benighted areas allowing open carry of personal WMD to satisfy the egos of the Kokesh types in our country will continue to create a toxic atmosphere in public venues to keep everyone on edge to control them and silence them with their tantrums. This is simply textbook Crazymaking:

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/12799/1/Mental-Abuse--Tell-Tale-Signs-of-Crazy-Making-Psychological-Abuse.html

Or the Double Bind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind

They SAY they want for people to not be afraid of their toys, and bluster about freedom, but it's irrational to believe them. Guns are for war and hunting. We've seen their list of who they want to hunt and it's a very long one.

Too bad if they get their true heart's desire and eliminate the humans on the list, there will be no one to stand up for them when guys with more money and bigger guns come for them. Look at Iraq. History repeats...

It's possible they are so lost in their Faux, Beck and Infowars reality, they really don't know WTH they are creating. They are bordering terrorism with their insistence that only THEIR rights matter. Only their viewpoint counts, no one else had better argue with them. Just like Boko Harum and ISIL. Anyone who dares to oppose them could get this treatment:

Spitting, Stalking, Rape Threats: How Gun Extremists Target Women

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/guns-bullying-open-carry-women-moms-texas

I want to thank the 400K who petitioned TARGET to stop this insanity, and hope for more of it.

[bullwinkle428]

44. Hey, open-carry nuts - kinda sucks for you when "market forces" react and turn

you all into "sad pandas"!

[Turbineguy]

46. I'll have to boycott Target.

I only like to shop in stores where I have a higher chance of getting shot.

[RufusTFirefly]

47. Pretty depressing what qualifies as "good news" these days

We seem to be spiraling downward at such a great rate that whenever we pause, albeit briefly, it's apparently cause for celebration.

How did we become a "lesser of two evils," "it could be worse" kind of country?

[drm604]

50. This may spread to the point where carrying a firearm will be a major inconvenience.

More and more businesses may do this, to the point where carrying becomes a major inconvenience. Who'll want to carry if they can't go inside anywhere? OCT has shot themselves in the foot with their behavior.

[BrotherIvan]

54. Business is just protecting profit

I'm sure they had a bunch of bean counters working on this and found that gun nuts are a minority and they would lose more sales by allowing open carry. They don't want the liability either. In this case, it worked out ok.

[Hoyt]

58. Most companies have similar bean counters.

[BrotherIvan]

59. Yes, I'm glad they do

I hope HL goes bankrupt as well. These whackjobs need to find out that most people are not on their side.

[sir pball]

67. Carrying a damn AR is an inconvenience in itself

It's bulky, unwieldy and relatively restrictive (unless you "patrol carry" which would be an excellent way to get arrested for brandishing if not shot on sight) - anybody who's humped a rifle five miles in on a hunt can feel the pain. I hate carrying a full size umbrella, I can't imagine browsing Target with a rifle. Even in a good sling.

Disclaimer, I do come down more on the "pro" side, but deeply in the grey, and think that OC of long arms is about the most imbecilic, aggressive and counterproductive action an "RKBA Supporter" could do.

[Reter]

64. So cops can't go in for anything?

They are not allowed to leave their guns in the car.

[onehandle]

65. Cops carrying guns is normal.

Idiots with codpieces slung over their shoulders, not so much.

[sir pball]

68. You would support arming the most violent and enabled members of society.

Parent has me on ignore (for owning a Samsung phone -s/he's a piece of work) but I couldn't resist

[Hoyt]

71. -Minus 1.

[drm604]

73. I'm pretty sure that this doesn't apply to the police.

I don't think it can apply to the police.

[davidpdx]

69. Glad to hear this

We need to put pressure on other retailers and even grocery store chains to do the same.

[alcibiades_mystery]

70. I hope the gunners boycott: I'd prefer not to see these shitheads

when I'm buying cheap kitchen gear.

[GOLGO 13]

74. Go carry in Walmart duck commanders.

No matter how they try to spin it, this is a Win for Us!

[hack89]

75. It is also a win for most gun owners

by marginalizing these open carry idiots it lowers the heat on the gun control debate.

[RKP5637]

76. Excellent, because a number of gun owners have consistently demonstrated they

are irresponsible individuals, unfit to have a firearm or frankly be near one.