Major Development in Slain Teen Case

[AlbertCat]

Source: Huffington Post via AOL news

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Told Police Teen Attacked Him

Nearly a month after Trayvon Martin's killing, the account of what occurred the night of the teen's fatal confrontation with George Zimmerman is getting more complicated. As the public attempts to piece together what really happened on Feb. 26, more details have emerged telling Zimmerman's side of the story.

According to law enforcement authorities, Zimmerman, who maintained he shot the teen in self-defense, told local police that Martin punched him in the face, climbed on top of him and slammed his head into the sidewalk, the Orlando Sentinel reports.


... snip ...

According to what Zimmerman told local officers, he lost sight of the teen and was returning to his SUV when Martin approached him and they exchanged words. He said Martin asked if he had a problem, Zimmerman replied no and reached for his cell phone. He then alleges that Martin said "well you do now" and punched him in the nose.

Zimmerman said he then fell to the ground and Martin got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. Zimmerman said he began yelling for help.


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1381322.html?1332811474&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D146779

[naaman fletcher]

1. What exactly is the major development here? nt

[AlbertCat]

3. What exactly is the major development here?

That's the AOL headline... and I included it for this very question.

I suppose the major development is anyone is taking such a stance SERIOUSLY!

A 14 year old with Skittles.

Does Z have bruises or a black eye from the attack?

And why doesn't anyone ask "What made the kid look suspicious in the 1st place?"

Was it the Ice tea? Was he checking out houses, trying doors? Was he looking in cars? Was it the hoodie? Was it the color of his skin?

What was the "suspicious" thing?

[itsrobert]

65. He was 17

It's good for you to question. But you still need to be factual are people will tear up your comments. Only trying to help. I agree with much you are saying.

[SamAdams1234]

4. The major development isn't mentioned in the snippet for some reason

That police claim witnesses back up most of Zimmerman's account. Orlando Sentinel is reporting this, yet I don't see it many other places. Strange.

[AlbertCat]

10. witnesses back up most of Zimmerman's account.

witnesses are the MOST unreliable things around.

[SamAdams1234]

13. True, witnesses are not reliable always

But if the story jives up with what Zimmerman reported, there creates a HUGE problem for prosecutors. They cannot prosecute a case on emotion - they need real evidence.
From what I can tell, there are still some gaps that will probably come out at some point, including:
How does the conversation with the girlfriend match up timewise with the events? Police should be able to match up the exact time the 911 calls were made with the cell records of the girl to determine if she was on the phone with him as the altercation was taking place or right before.
Did the supposed witness call 911? If he did, and recounted immediately what he had seen, his words hold much greater weight.
Is there any witness to the altercation as it began? Did anyone witness the first punch?
Will the autopsy reveal injuries to Martin besides a gunshot? If so, gives little credence to Zimmerman's account that he was punched and then was helplessly beat up.
Were the cries for help from Zimmerman or Martin? Surely would seem odd for Zimmerman to yell out and draw attention to a situation if he was intending on killing someone in cold blood.

These are just some gaps in info - there are way more questions than answers at this point, and I just hope there isn't lost lives or injury in the meantime as people's emotions run high. The FBI, Justice Dept, State of FL, etc are looking into this thing, so chances are if an arrest is to be made, it will happen.

[Blue_Tires]

29. It still gets back to WHY Zimmerman followed Martin in the first place

and why he called 911...

Once his little "official" statement to police that night is released, and it's exposed for the bullshit that it is, then we'll know everything...

[SamAdams1234]

38. And if it isn't exposed as BS and there is a witness to back it up

Lots of people are going to look like fools - which is why it seems better to wait and see.

[Blue_Tires]

47. it will be...bank on it

If the statement exonerated Zimmerman, it would have been released the following day...They are sitting on it for a reason -- Unless that statement gets "edited", which I wouldn't put past the Sanford cops, it's gonna sink Zimmerman like a fucking anvil

It's not even in dispute that Martin was racially profiled (proven in Zimmerman's police call)...So unless he had a damn good reason (and he didn't, just so we all know) to stalk a private citizen, then it take a pretty crazy scenario for anything Zimmerman did after that point to be "justifiable"

[yardwork]

33. Different witnesses are telling different stories - and none are sworn in a court of law.

I listened to the 911 tapes and have my own opinion. The fact that the lawyers and pr team hired by Zimmerman's family are now trotting out various "witnesses" - many of whom won't give their names or appear on camera - to support George Zimmerman's original contention of self-defense, well, it's not surprising.

Zimmerman's family is spending a lot of money to make sure that charges are never filed against George.

Edited to say - welcome to DU. I see that you joined today and all your posts on DU so far are in this thread.

[KurtNYC]

19. If Zimmerman's nose was broken and his head smashed

repeatedly on the ground there would be evidence of that; no witnesses needed to corroborate injuries of that level.

But Zimmerman was not treated for injuries. According to 911 tapes Zimmerman is standing up and talking with officers immediately after the killing.

A new development would be for pictures of Zimmerman's injuries to be released.

[AtheistCrusader]

22. At least one early report indicated he was bleeding from the head.

This is turning into a damned mess. How do we distinguish between facts, and disinfo at this point? Everyone involved has an interest in showing the altercation in a different light.

[yardwork]

36. If the police had done a proper investigation and collected evidence in the first place

then this case wouldn't be playing out in the media. The Sanford police department did a poor job (which is why the police chief is on leave and the local DA has removed himself from the case).

[rayofreason]

69. "How do we distinguish between facts, and disinfo..."

Excellent point.

Wait and see is probably the most prudent approach. A $10,000 bounty from the NBP party - a good example of a bad approach.

[SamAdams1234]

23. There is evidence of that, absolutely, check out the publicly available police report

The responding officers reported he was bleeding from the nose and back of his head.

[Blue_Tires]

35. "bleeding" doesn't mean "broken"

and whatever the 'severity' of his injuries were, he was able to walk away with no further medical attention

this "broken nose" needs to be exposed for the after-the-fact, apocryphal bullshit that it is

[SamAdams1234]

48. I haven't seem the paramedics or medical reports, have you?

Certainly that would provide some insight - until then, it is speculation on both sides.

[Blue_Tires]

50. no speculation...

nothing mentioned in any report about a hospital visit

but I do give you credit for trying

[Ecumenist]

37. The witnesses that have come forth have all mentioned,WITH THE EXCEPTION of

Zimmy's man) that the police were actually correcting their eyewitness statements. I DO NOT BELIEVE THE COPS..

[KurtNYC]

61. yes and that begs the question -- he is bleeding, head trauma and there is EMT right there...

and they don't even clean him up? Bleeding from the back of the head and broken nose and he declines any treatment? IMHO if you have bleeding head trauma you should not be able to decline treatment because you may be in no state of mind to make that judgement and concussions can take hours to show their real damage.

But my point is that Zimmerman's declining treatment at the scene works against this 'new' development.

[krispos42]

45. The police report has that informatin in it.

His (Zimmerman's) back was wet and had grass clipping or grass stains on it, and his nose was bleeding.

[MD20]

62. The condition of Martin's clothes could corroborate or deflate Zimmerman's

claims.

The knees of Martin's pants would have been wet and grassy if he had straddled the downed Zimmerman as stated.

[MD20]

57. What about Trayvon's hands

The blood of Trayvon Martin cries from the ground. His body is his best witness. What do the hands reveal?
Are the knuckles bruised and bloodied?

In another thread I suggested that the Martin family lawyers should have made a cursory view of the body
and even photographed it for evidentiary purposes as soon as possible.

I know that lawyers are not medically trained but their testimony concerning the condition of the body such
as bruised knuckles and other signs of trauma would be admissible. That is not to preclude a second autopsy
by more trusted authorities. My suggestion arises out of the observed morass engineered into a seeming cover
up by the Sanford police. Because the media had already exposed the fact that the system was broken and could
not be trusted, the early observances of Trayvon's clothing and body by the family lawyers could have at east
minimized the possibiity of any later tampering. If Trayvon's hands showed no trauma at the scene after his death,
they probably do now.

Here is the link to my OP entitled Trayvon Martin: The body of evidence.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002464043

[MD20]

60. Another new development would be the coroner's note on Trayvon's hands.

[Blue_Tires]

27. The police claim witnesses back up most of Zimmerman's account?

In case you haven't noticed, the police have been trying to cover their asses and suppress the investigation into their own complicity/indifference from the first hour...I don't see that tidbit mentioned in many other places. Strange.

[lark]

64. Witnesses that the polizia approve of

may say one thing, but other witnesses testimony wasn't included. I don't trust a thing the polizia in Sanford say, it's all a cover-up of their right wing racism.

[Bluzmann57]

2. If Martin punched Zimmerman

There is little doubt that Zimmerman deserved it. After all, he had a gun and Trayvon didn't. So maybe Trayvon was defending himself, or "standing his ground" as was his (apparent) right under Florida law.

[zeemike]

5. Who was doing the chasing is important then

Cause if you are being chased the chaser cannot be standing his ground....Zimmerman then is convicted because he is the problem the law was trying to fix.

[Ian David]

6. This could be why Trayvon called 911

ABC7 Chicago Acknowledges Existence of 9-1-1 Call by Travyon Martin During Attack
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002477537

[SamAdams1234]

14. Which counters early reports

That he was on the phone with his girlfriend as events were unfolding, up to the scuffle. Again, raises more questions than answers.

[Ian David]

16. He could also have conference-called them both at the same time. My phone does that. n/t

[SamAdams1234]

21. Perhaps, but then wouldn't the girlfriend have mentioned that? Seems like a big detail to leave out

[Ecumenist]

40. No, it doesn't. Not at all.

[leftynyc]

17. Now THAT is new news

that has nothing to do with the history of the shooter or the victim.

[slackmaster]

9. We don't have any reason to believe that Trayvon knew that Zimmerman had a gun at that point

I wouldn't approach someone who I knew was carrying a weapon, much less punch him.

[Remmah2]

15. You mean he was carrying "concealed"?

You mean he wasn't being a rude toter and trying to intimidate anyone by flashing his firearm?

Is it possible he wasn't using it as a penis extension?

[SamAdams1234]

20. Agreed but the problem for Martin is

Once a 3rd party arrived on the scene (if this is true) he then has no further reason to subdue and attack him. It is quite a stretch to say you are standing your ground if another man is there to intercede.

[Blue_Tires]

30. what third party are you talking about?

[SamAdams1234]

34. A witness claims he arrived on the scene

And Martin was on top of Zimmerman punching him. He told Martin to get off him and that he was calling the police:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/witness_supports_self_defense_story_hJ7s3EBd9LtYlZaE41WzFP

If this witness did call 911 and report this same story, claims of Martin merely defending himself start dribbling away. Of course, unanswered question so far..

[Blue_Tires]

43. The new york post?

quoting someone in the Orlando Sentinel who wouldn't even give his name?!?! Of course that guy is above reproach and would never perjure himself just to bail out a buddy...

I'll see that and raise you this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=477512

[SamAdams1234]

49. Would you give your name??? New Black Panthers would certainly add to the bounty list

Not to mention, I haven't heard the girlfriend's name, yet people had no problem taking her word as fact initially.

[Blue_Tires]

52. Why not? Evidently any black person can be shot on sight in that neighborhood so he's safe

The NBPP doesn't even exist...It's just a few clowns mugging for the cameras...And if you think they really have 10 grand to burn then I don't know what to tell you

[SamAdams1234]

54. I don't know what they have

But if I went on TV and offered money to kidnap someone, I'd probably end up in jail. Must be nice to be a Panther!

[Blue_Tires]

58. assuming anyone took you seriously...

Of course if I stalked and shot an unarmed teen in cold blood, I'd probably end up in jail, or at least arrested...Funny legal system they got down in Fla.

[kenfrequed]

44. Uhm

That story seems pretty full of holes. An alleged witness told a fox affilliate? Oh and the source is The New York Post? Really? Hardly a pillar of journalistic integrity.

And 9 of 10 of your posts since arriving here have all been on this story? And most of them on this page? Amazing.

[Blue_Tires]

53. I'm just having fun with him...There are a couple of new ones every day

[Ecumenist]

41. What 3rd Party? The person who gave his "eyewitness testimony" SAW

that from AFAR!! Don't get it twisted. By the time the 3rd party arrives, (the police) Or Mary Cutch and her roommate, ( whose yard was the location of the murder), TRAYVON WAS DEAD!

[fifthoffive]

56. And Travon was killed in a different location that where the altercation took place.

According to Mary Cutch, she never heard an argument or altercation. That happened 3 or 4 houses down and around the corner. Sounds to me from her description that Trayvon may have tried to get Zimmerman to stop following him, an altercation ensued and Trayvon left.

Ms. Cutch reports that she heard a child whimpering followed by a single gunshot. Zimmerman must have followed Trayvon after the altercation, probably called to him, Trayvon turned around, Zimmerman threatened him with the gun, Trayvon started crying, or pleading and Zimmerman shot him.

[Horse with no Name]

7. Sounds an awful lot like they have been trying to make a story fit the facts

where Zimmerman was NOT the aggressor.

I think it is an epic fail...but this is also the state that sent a man in chronic pain in a wheelchair to prison for trafficking oxycodone at the same time fatass limpballs got a pass for his pill popping.

I have no hope for Florida. I will NEVER spend one dime in that state.

[Blue_Tires]

25. they have been trying to do that since the first night

[LynneSin]

8. So a month later we hear this?

I mean really, it wasn't like it happened yesterday when perhaps it might have sounded more believable - a teenager who was about 70-100lbs lighter than you decides to attack you.

But hell desparate times call for desparate measures. Zimmerman knows he's guilty and trying his best to get out of it.

[kenfrequed]

12. Agreed

This seems kind of fishy to me.

[LynneSin]

24. It's so fricking fishy, Long John Silvers wants to take it and fry it up

and server it in it's $3.99 value meal.

[SamAdams1234]

28. People selectively leaked certain info early

The fact that we are only hearing about certain things now, that were well documented at the time, can be attributed to the mob mentality and media's rush to sensationalize something. I had no idea Zimmerman had any wounds, yet it was documented 2 minutes after the police arrived at the scene, and came out weeks later.
Should be a lesson to people that you should wait til ALL the facts come out - the first info out is not necessarily the most truthful.

[yardwork]

42. Nonsense. The police report has been around for weeks - it talks about Zimmerman's injuries.

A bleeding nose and a graze on the back of the head. Zimmerman declined to go to the hospital. The police didn't even bother to test the blood - it might have been Trayvon's.

"People selectively leaked?" - hell, the police had this case closed as self-defense. You've got your facts wrong.

[tabatha]

51. Agreed. The police are the ones who are now selectively leaking information

to destroy Trayvon.

And good police work would have been to take as evidence any bloody clothing, and photos of injuries.

[Rozlee]

39. They want to make us believe that a kid that weighed less than a hundred pounds

than Zimmerman knocked him to the ground, pinned him down and kept punching him. Credible to me if he was a martial arts fighter. And the cops back up Zimmerman's story. My biggest question is how many cops are on the Sanford Police Dept. and what is their racial makeup? This question will probably get my post knocked off by the jury, but screw it. I think it has merits.

[rayofreason]

70. 160 lbs, 6 ft.

From the police report via the Chicago Tribune

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2012/03/trayvon-martin-shooting-death-initial-police-reports.html

[Iliyah]

11. And the sad thing about

the leaks from the Sanford Police Department is that NRA and ALEC thru Fake News is running with it with the help of a few news outlets, and these assholes are saying and printing it like its gospel. For God's sake, Trayvon can't defend himself. They need to hire a reconstruction expert as well as a voice expert.

Now they are saying that Trayvon was trying to get the gun from Zimmerman, and if they is the case, I truly feel that Trayvon was fighting for his life! Actually, Trayvon was figthing for his life and lost. Zimmerman does have a voice, but Trayvon does not.

[gtar100]

18. Zimmerman needs to man up to what he did and stop making shit up.

But of course, he doesn't have that kind of integrity. Zimmerman is just another self-righteous, scumbag racist.

[Blue_Tires]

26. the allegations in that "major development" are already a few days old

way to be up to the minute, AOL

[Ecumenist]

31. WTF??!! Why are these outlets reporting these things as if they're gospel

based on the word of THE MURDERER? Why wasn't there any mention of these HORRIFIC injuries from the jump? Where is the proof. photographic and otherwise? Bullshit!!

[saras]

32. It's an easy fix at the state or federal level. Prosecute the cops for conspiracy...

...and offer immunity to anyone who testifies against Zimmerman. It's completely standard procedure, prosecutors are utterly familiar with it, it works, and it holds up in higher courts.

[EFerrari]

46. The state's first move was to try to justify Zimmerman

not to try to investigate the case.

[L0oniX]

55. The mob still wants a hanging anyway.

[Blue_Tires]

63. Nah, right now I'd just settle for an arrest

which no one seems to want to do because they're all digging up some kid's high school disciplinary records..for salacious stuff unrelated to the case

Funny that you use the word "mob", though...The motivations of stalking and hunting down Mr. Martin were not all that dissimilar from another certain mob from a past era?

[K8-EEE]

59. So this 250 lb guy was knocked to the ground in one punch and then

this skinny teenager "got on top of him." I'm sorry but all of this seems improbable.

[Enrique]

66. Major development: Sanford Police dept. spews more bullshit n/t

[avebury]

67. My big question abour Zimmerman's story is

that if he claims he was injured (broken nose) by the boy - why wasn't he taken to the ER for treatment? If someone had broken my nose you can bet that I would have wanted to go to the ER. All we have heard is one side of the story (the other side is not in the position to tell his side) with no physical or oral corroboration (bloody clothes, eye witness testimony from any medical personnel, pictures). I am not going to rush to trash the young victim's memory. To paraphrase the Jerry Maguire movie - Show me the proof!

[frylock]

68. so zimmerman made a move for his waistband?

isn't that original story used by Z to justify gunning down martin?