(TX) Victoria Hospital Won't Hire Very Obese Workers

[kpete]

Source: Texas Tribune

Victoria Hospital Won't Hire Very Obese Workers
by Emily Ramshaw March 26, 2012 4 Comments


A Victoria hospital already embroiled in a discrimination lawsuit filed by doctors of Indian descent has instituted a highly unusual hiring policy: It bans job applicants from employment for being too overweight.

The Citizens Medical Center policy, instituted a little more than a year ago, requires potential employees to have a body mass index of less than 35 — which is 210 pounds for someone who is 5-foot-5, and 245 pounds for someone who is 5-foot-10. It states that an employee’s physique “should fit with a representational image or specific mental projection of the job of a healthcare professional,” including an appearance “free from distraction” for hospital patients.

“The majority of our patients are over 65, and they have expectations that cannot be ignored in terms of personal appearance,” hospital chief executive David Brown said in an interview. “We have the ability as an employer to characterize our process and to have a policy that says what’s best for our business and for our patients.”

Employment lawyers say Citizens Medical Center’s hiring policy isn’t against the law. Only the state of Michigan and six U.S. cities — including San Francisco and Washington, D.C. — ban discrimination against the overweight in hiring.

Read more: http://www.texastribune.org/texas-health-resources/health-reform-and-texas/victoria-hospital-wont-hire-very-obese-workers/

---

(how about NOT hiring STUPID doctors?)

[cyberbeing]

1. Agree

I agree, I believe we all need to take responsibility for our own health.

[Enrique]

35. that's a sweet non-sequitur

welcome to DU.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

2. Unclear if they're hiring stupid doctors

But they're certainly hiring some stupid hospital administrators.

[dmallind]

3. Wouldn't want fat useless slobs like this obese guy pushing your wheelchair...

I mean 25o at 5'10 has to be just so unhealthy..

[sarcasmo]

4. I have seen more than a few over weight nurses. This is just one more example of

employers being out of control.

[dynasaw]

7. Noticed that too

Hospitals I know seem to have more than a few overweight workers: not just nurses but staff and allied health workers. High stress contributes to weight gain and it's not good for the health of these workers.

[sarcasmo]

11. Having taking the wife to numerous hospitals the last four years, I think you are

right on about the stress being a factor.

[Coyote_Bandit]

5. If they want employees that possess certain physical capabilities

then they would do well to test all employees and prospective employees for those abilities.

However, refusing to hire based on weight alone is just as offensive and discriminatory as refusing to hire based on religious belief (or lack thereof).

I've known folks that were not overweight and appeared fit that could not climb a single flight of stairs without gasping for breath and could not lift more than 10 pounds. I've also known someone who was obese and spent over 10 hours a week at the gym - 2.5 hours on the eliptical, 2.5 hours on the stairclimber and 5 hours doing weights.

Weight is not the best measure of fitness or physical abilities.

This clinic is clearly discriminating based on physical appearance rather than fitness or physical capabilities. I wonder if those "patients" have expectations in terms of skin color. I bet they do since they also have preferences with respect to national origin.

[dynasaw]

9. We're talking About Obesity Here

Agree that weight is not a measure of fitness but being way over what is good for each individual does pose health risks.

I would say that if hospitals care about the health (not just weight) of their workers there ought to be better management--hours, programs for exercise time, in-house workshops for stress management, diet etc. But of course hospitals are now corporate businesses, and workers are cogs in the money making machine.

[Rozlee]

14. But, they're not talking about health.

They made it clear in the article that it's all about a professional appearance and that elderly patients might find obese nurses "distracting." How far are they going to take this? As a retired RN myself, I'm five foot nothing and weigh 92 pounds (don't know my bmi). I heard more complaints about me and being "too tiny" and "too frail" to pick up and transport patients and to defend myself against agitated ones than any complaints over obese nurses. The greatest gift any nurse brings to his/her nursing profession is caring, competence, and the ability to deal with the pressures and emergencies of the profession. The real question should be: does obesity interfere with these qualities? If not, stop being discriminating nimrods.

[dmallind]

17. obesity relevant to the malnourished Belgian peasants of a century ago that is.

[Coyote_Bandit]

21. Ummmm......No

We are talking about discrimination in employment based on APPEARANCE.

OP states (emphasis added):
“should fit with a representational image or specific mental projection of the job of a healthcare professional,” including an appearance “free from distraction”

Weight is a poor measure of fitness and physical abilities. But it is a damn popular stereotype to assume fat people are unfit and those of a more ideal weight are fit. That's not necessarily true on either account.

There are four accepted components of fitness assessment:
(1) Aerobic fitness;
(2) Muscular strength and endurance
(3) Flexibility and
(4) Body composition

http://www.adultfitnesstest.org/

There are a number of ways to measure a particular individual's body composition. Hydrostatic weighing. Skinfold measurements. Bioelectric impedence. And others.

Nobody in this particular clinic seems to be talking about assessing fitness or ability to perform physical tasks. They are talking about discriminating in emplooyment based on the single factor of weight as it impacts appearance.

While weight and height are relevant factors in determining body composition, taken together they are a poor measure of body composition. Why? Because the weight measure by itself is incapable of distinguishing what portion of the body is composed of lean body mass. http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/mass.htm

And body composition is but one of four measures of physical fitness.

This is discrimination based on appearance rather than a condition of employment based on ability to perform certain physical tasks.




As you suggest, there certainly are many ways (and many reasons) for employers to foster better health among their employees. It is admirable of employers to make such efforts.

But that begs the question of whether it is also permissible for employers to discriminate in emloyment based on lifestyle issues. And make no mistake, lifestyle issues include far more than being fat. It also includes choices regarding alcohol consumption, driving habits, sexual conduct, and recreational activities among many other things. If one finds it acceptable to refuse employment to obese folks then, by logical extension, one should also find it permissible to refuse employment to those fit thrill seekers who engage in high risk recreational activities.




IMHO, employers ought not concern themselves with the legal behaviors and choices of their employees. Such intrusions burden individual freedoms and liberties. Any such intrusion ought to be well defined, ought to have a clear and direct impact on the employees ability to perform the duties of his job, ought to be communicated clearly to employees/prospective employees and ought to be accompanied by compensation for the employee contracting to forego otherwise legal conduct.

[bmbmd]

6. I wonder if they hire

smokers..

[NV Whino]

8. Personally, I think it's appalling how many overweight people are in the medical profession

I volunteer at a local hospital (and have spent more time than I would like as a patient the last two years) and I see an amazing number of nurses and doctors who are obese.

However, rather than firing or not hiring, how about offering ways to manage weight. How about better food on the cafeteria, requisite time in the gym, free consultations and programs on nutrition.

[dynasaw]

10. Totally agree with you

See my post above. A family member works at a major teaching hospital in Southern California. When I asked why this hospital doesn't offer any exercise programs or even a gym where workers can go during breaks she let out a big laugh.

[NV Whino]

12. This hospital has a gym

Which is one of the reasons I volunteer there. But I almost never see any of the employees there. What I do see is the nurses loading up on large size Cokes and other drinks in the cafeteria, which, by the way, has pretty decent food for a hospital.

[arbusto_baboso]

13. 12 hour shifts for most staff nurses don't help, either.

Certainly that kind of schedule is disruptive to a healthy pattern of meals and exercise. Not to mention the stress.

[GoCubsGo]

24. That's a huge part of the problem.

I know several nurses, and my mom was a nurse. After working for 12 hours, they don't feel much like going to the gym. Also, given the nature of their work, nurses get short breaks, and they don't have time to sit down and eat a healthy meal. They grab what is convenient. And, "convenient" usually means "unhealthy, sugary and/or fatty crap". Not to mention, the families of their patients are constantly bringing in cookies, cakes, donuts, and other empty calorie treats as a thank-you.

Instead of banning overweight employees, this hospital really needs to create conditions where they don't become overweight in the first place. But, that would mean adding more shorter shifts, which would mean having to hire more people. Which would mean cutting into their profits, which they can't have. So, firing "too heavy" employees it is.

[Snake Alchemist]

15. Change the headline to "smokers" and people would be cheering. nt

[dmallind]

16. Which they are.

[saras]

18. Does it apply to upper management and the board of directors?

I mean, who in their right mind would want to attend a hospital that looked like it was run by SUITS? Talk about an ironclad guarantee of a ripoff.

[gopiscrap]

19. It's all about money

over weight people have more chronic illnesses and therefore the insjurance company has to pay more out and the premiums will be higher..

[RobinA]

20. When I Started

reading this I thought it was going to be about health (which it still could be), but they're selling it based on patient perception. That could go in all kinds of fun directions. People over 65? OK, doctors are white, male and at least middle-aged.

I'm female, 54, white. I prefer male docters, could be a little younger than me, but I don't want to see Doogie Howser at my bedside. All female physicians are fired. Race isn't a big consideration. No bad hair, please. If you can't take care of your hair, how can you do surgery? Now here's a pet peeve - bad spelling. Spelling tests for all Drs where I might be in the hospital. If you can't do a simple thing like spell, how could you have been smart enough to get through medical school? (Bad spellers, don't hate me, I'm just applying the logic used by the people in the article.)

[PassingFair]

22. And no ethnic minorites either.

They make me uncomfortable.



Do I need this:

[Klukie]

23. If being overweight inhibits the ability to do the job then I believe that is just...but not just

for appearance sake. If they are busy evaluating the proper physical health of their employees, then maybe they ought to evaluate the proper mental health as well. I have encountered many a healthcare professional that lacks the empathy and compassion to treat a patient properly. So many go into the profession because it is a stable well paying career field. They choose the profession out of necessity rather than the desire to help people.

[Arkana]

25. My pediatrician was an alarmingly obese woman.

Didn't mean her advice wasn't good. She was an excellent doctor--she actually continued to see me until I turned 21.

If they're good at what they do, there is no reason NOT to hire them.

[BlueIris]

26. Awful policy.

Especially since they are admitting it is based on appearance, not how BMI may or may not impair work performance:

"'The majority of our patients are over 65, and they have expectations that cannot be ignored in terms of personal appearance,' hospital chief executive David Brown said in an interview."

BMI should have nothing to do with whether or not someone is hired for a job.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

27. It would have been less offensive and just as effective

To have them pass certain physical tests- and if there are tight spots in the hospital examine ability to work in a crampe space

[Monk06]

28. 245 at 5' 10" is overweight let alone 245 at 5' 5". I''m 6" 0" and 223 and that is overweight.

A healthy weight for me would be 175 to 185 max.

[dmallind]

29. Body composition irrelevant?

Apparently most fullbacks from HS to the pros are "obese", as are all people who have more than a passing exposure to strength training. If you are overweight at 6'0 223 it's because you have very little muscle mass.

BTW it IS 245 at 5'10.

[Monk06]

30. Obviously I'm not talking about professional athletes. I'm talking about ordinary people who

are limited to mild exercise or are sedentary due to health problems.

Which includes almost all of us if you think of the physical demands of the average retail job.

[dmallind]

32. not even close to just pro athletes

at my best I could barely make a decent amateur rugby team, but at zero % body fat (neither possible nor theoretically beneficial) I would be in the very overweight/borderline obese column at just under 200lbs. Given that even in very good shape, which I am certainly a long long way from right now, I was always 20lbs into the obese column, it's certainly an issue for normal people who just have more muscle mass, be that natural or developed, than others.

Bottom line is that a simple height/weight matrix is an utterly asinine way of sorting out health, capability, "image", or anything else stated or implied in this issue, and hospitals have the ability to do far more effective testing for anything that is relevant to the job.

[Monk06]

38. I will agree body mass and height weight ratios do cloud the obesity issue. On the otherhand

20 to 30 lbs overweight can be very unhealthy from a cardio standpoint. Especially if you are sedentary like myself. I have lung and joint issues so twenty pounds overweight for me is a big deal.

[Javaman]

31. BMI is probably the most god aweful way to base ones health upon...

I'm 6'2". I had weighed 205. Once upon a time, that was within the acceptable range of the BMI. Then it was changed. I now found myself in the obese catagory. I run, lift weights, eat right, etc, I just had muscle weight.

the BMI doesn't take into account increased weight due to muscle.

So I went on a "diet". I'm now at 180. Lean and hard. Yet, I'm at the upper end of the acceptable range for someone my height.

BMI, the way it's currently measured, is fucking stupid.

[Neoma]

33. BMI helps people like me.

I used to be 6 foot tall and 106 pounds due to losing weight from double pneumonia. The BMI gave me a goal, in order to stop looking like a concentration camp victim.

Edit: I'm still 6 foot tall.

[Javaman]

34. I'm glad it worked for you...

however, there needs to be a metric to account for muscle weight, which is more dense then fat.

Like a BMI which also takes in body fat percentage would be more accurate.

[Neoma]

36. If you're that muscled up, you don't need to know how unhealthy you are anyways.

Unless you eat junk food. Don't do that... You could just go to your doctor and get a complete blood test. Including vitamins, they always forget to check those. Otherwise, congratulations! You're officially healthy.

[Javaman]

39. BMI isn't an indication of health.

that is a complete misnomer.

This is why both body fat and bmi need to work in conjunction.
That kind of test would give a better answer to what a person needs to do to combat obecity.

It's not about me being lean, fat or obese, it's about accurate testing instead of using blanket and very wrong results.

[Scout]

40. and those alone are not enough!

"This is why both body fat and bmi need to work in conjunction."

i have a high BMI and high fat percentage, however my BP, cholesterol, triglycerides, and blood sugar are all excellent, and i got excellent readings on my "stroke prevention screening" tests too.

i love it, i take tests and get the results ... everything is fine, normal, great, within normal limits, but oh gosh, you're FAT! LOL.

[Javaman]

41. I completely agree.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, without a blood test, which would give all the info you sighted above, just using the BMI as some sort of indicator for obesity is just plane crazy.

Anyway, I'm right there with you. I'm also of the ilk, "the more you know the better you are".

Cheers!

[Scout]

42. cheers to you too! n/t

[Paula Sims]

37. So my 57 yo 6'2" 188lb cousin that just went through a mitral valve repair would be a "cheap" hire?

Thanks to his Mom who couldn't have left him $1m but rather a bad valve and also the genetics for 800 level triglycerides (he eats very well) would be hired no problem. My sister, who is 5'4" and 250, muscular as can be (she's a semi-pro weight lifter) and never a day in the hospital wouldn't be considered.

That's ridiculous.

[threads]

43. .. and they have expectations that cannot be ignored in terms of personal appearance?

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-state-agencies/health-and-human-services-commission/cardiologists-accuse-hospital-of-discrimination/

VICTORIA — The emails and memos written by administrators and doctors at Citizens Medical Center about three of their colleagues of Indian descent are, at best, derogatory. An operating room chief wrote of trying to force “the Indians off the reservation.” Others wrote about their “Indian troubles,” or labeled the hospital’s two rival cardiology practices as “the Cowboys” and “the Indians.”

At worst, they could be considered racist: “I feel a sense of disgust but am more concerned with what this means to the future of the hospital as more of our Middle-Eastern-born physicians demand leadership roles and demand influence,” David P. Brown, chief executive of Citizens Medical, wrote in a 2007 memo to himself. He continued, “It will change the entire complexion of the hospital and create a level of fear among our employees.”