You can certainly refuse to decorate a cake with a swastika:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28269290/ns/us_news-weird_news/t/-year-old-hitler-cant-get-name-cake
The father of 3-year-old Adolf Hitler Campbell, denied a birthday cake with the child's full name on it by one New Jersey supermarket, is asking for a little tolerance.
Indeed, there is no law which prohibits one from refusing service on the basis of all types of opinions which your customer might hold. A private business can refuse service to whomever they want, for any reason or no reason, but with one important caveat.
Taking your example, if you don't want to put a racist or offensive message in your product, that's fine - and it is fine for what amounts to two reasons. The first of those reasons is that whether someone cannot a racist or offensive message is independent of that customer's race, sex, religion, national origin, etc.. And the "etc." defining those sorts of categories are, with the exception of religion, generally immutable characteristics of personhood.
And that's why you won't answer the question.
Can you, categorically, deny service to black customers in your business? No, you can't.
What was the "offensive message" to be put on the cake? "Congratulations Bert & Ernie?"
Go ahead, tell me. I'll wait.
In order to perpetuate this nonsense that refusing service to gay people is somehow a "first amendment issue" whereas refusing service to people of a given race is not, you have to make up a fact that isn't there.
The baker is not objecting to some sort of "offensive message on the cake". The baker is objecting to the fact that these two people are getting married, and want to have a cake just like anyone else who is getting married.
Answer my question:
Are the circumstances the same if the person has a "religious objection" to inter-racial marriage?
YES or NO?
Because there are, certainly, people who will be happy to inform you that their views on race are indeed "religious beliefs".
You do seem late to the "my public commercial discrimination against gay people is a protected religious belief" party, so let me see if I can head off one of the usual non-arguments for you:
"Well how come they don't make halal butchers sell pork?"
The reason that halal butchers don't have to sell pork is, simply enough, because they don't sell pork. Period. To anyone.
The halal butcher will, of course, sell halal meat - i.e. the wares they sell - to anyone who comes in (wearing a shirt and shoes) and asks to purchase something they are selling. In other words, they are not discriminating against anyone by not selling pork. Now, if the halal butcher refused to sell halal meat to someone who was black, Jewish, female, or what-have-you, then the halal butcher would have a problem on his hands.
You seem not to understand that, by statute, sexual orientation was added to the roster of specific examples of bases on which businesses open to the public cannot discriminate in the provision of services. These customers were denied service because they are gay. That is the only reason why they were denied service. It was not because of some "offensive message on the cake" or anything like the product of your imagination. And the simplest reason one can deduce why it has nothing to do with the message on the cake is the fact that you can't tell me what that "offensive message" might have been.
And do you know why you cannot back up your "offensive message" point?
Because the story doesn't say what was to be written on the cake.
And do you know why the story doesn't say what was to be written on the cake?
Because the reason for the denial of service has NOTHING to do with any message they wanted on the cake.
They were denied service because they are gay. Full stop. Not because of anything anyone wanted to say, not say, or be forced to say. It is not a "speech" issue in the least.
Now, please, would you answer my question about how you would feel if someone had a "religious belief" about inter-racial marriage and refused service. I feel I have earned that from you.
= new reply since forum marked as read
- How devout? Willing to put it to the test buddy?
