Russia to Prosecute Crimean Tatar Protesters Over Unrest

[Bosonic]

Source: The Moscow Times

Thousands of Crimean Tatars on Saturday responded to news that their spiritual leader had been banned from the peninsula by blocking several highways in a tense standoff with riot police — the first sign that the Muslim ethnic group's discontent with Russian authorities may lead to turmoil.

On Saturday, Crimean authorities promised to dish out criminal charges to the group, which numbered about five thousand, according to the BBC Russian service. The group broke through border posts near the city of Armyansk and crossed the border into the buffer zone between Ukraine and the Crimean peninsula to meet Mustafa Dzhemilev, former head of the Crimean Tatar Mejlis, the ethnic group's representative body.

The group blocked several highways near Simferopol, Bakhchysarai, Stary Krym, Yevpatoriya and Oktyabrskoye, Interfax-Ukraine reported.

The incident seems to vindicate analysts' earlier warnings that the Muslim ethnic group's disaffection with Russian authorities may lead to instability in the region. Many Crimean Tatars, who account for more than 10 percent of the Crimean peninsula's population, opposed the territory's annexation by Russia in March.

Read more: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-to-prosecute-crimean-tatar-protesters-over-unrest/499385.html

[Duckhunter935]

1. surprise there

They will get what they have been fearing and there will be silence from some around here that said all would be well with them. I like the first thing the Russians did was not try and have good relations but to ban the leader from his home and kick him out of Crimea.

[NuclearDem]

2. Well yeah, but...Trail of Tears.

[Diclotican]

3. Bosonic

Bosonic

Just wait - one of this days the whole minority of Tartars would end up in train carts going to Sibir - as they did back in the days when they refused to accept Stalins rule - or more to the point - Stalin believed them to be traitors who had to be punished regardless if they was guilty or not...

Putin is maybe not Stalin - but he goes on a bad road, who might end up in the same place if he are not carefully - and Russia have a long history of treating tartars at the Crimea bad... It is not THAT long ago tartars was not even allowed to be at the pensylvania - because they was branded as traitors as long back as the 1930s..

Diclotican

[newthinking]

5. That area of Crimea is predominantly "Russian". So "Russians" have treated them well since the USSR

The new administration of the area may not. But please do not conflate Russians like this. Respectfully, It borders on bigotry.

[Diclotican]

8. newthinking

newthinking

It might be "bigotry" but the facts remain - the russian government have not exactly going over the top, protecting minorities that be in the form of the Soviet Union - or the Russian Federation - even though both USSR and the Russian Federation om paper is protecting minorities rather well - and that most minorities in Russia have many rights - to be protected against unlawfully hatered...

But then again - it is difficult times in Russia - and the Crimera have made things worse than it might have to be - mostly because the new administration of the area, have a whole different aspect to its governing, that ordinary russians who live there, and is friends with them - and who might fear as everyone else do - what the new administration want to do later on... But to be honest - it doesn't look to good at all when you look at the surface of things - and the Tartars have a rather brutal experience with Russian governments - that be local or central... Going back at least to the time when Peter the great was building his fledging Navy in the Azov Sea...

Diclotican

[newthinking]

9. I agree it is very complex

And indeed Russia is not a paragon of freedom.

But the history is even more complex than this. When you are talking about Tatars, you are also talking about fairly fundamentalist religions. Many adherants of which are peaceful, but many groups of which have embroiled many places in the work in "Jihad's" and subject many masses of people to Sharia law even now, in the world.

So I don't think presenting this as a simple situation does it justice. The Tatar's are members of a group with it's own nasty history and that will factor in as it would here as well. If a group of Muslims (or Fundamentalist Christians) were to blockade roads here they would be brought to justice.

From my understanding the Tatars are split. Putin just inherited what may become a very difficult thing for him, and this may have ended up enabling more militant Muslims to gain power. Consequences... The world is very complex.

[Diclotican]

11. newthinking

newthinking

The history of Russia is a complex one - maybe one of the most complex histories of a nation there is - mostly because it is so many minorities in Russia - in Soviet times they had 160 different minorities with right and duties to the Union - I'm not sure about how many minorities there is officially in the Federation - but I'm pretty sure it is close to the numbers back in the days of the Soviet Union - and many of them want different level of self-dependence from the Kremlin - some want just to be able to live where they ancestors have lived for hundreds of years - living of the land as they did before - some want outright independence from Russia - many of the republics in the Caucasus region have separatists that want independence from Russia - some with legal ways of doing it - others with violence and outright war with the russian army - Tsjetsjenia is one of the nations who have had a few wars with Russia the last 25 years - and also have a bloody history when it come to repressive politics in Russia... In 1944-45 Stalin relocated most of the tsjetnian population to Siberia by train carts - because it was rumored that they had worked with the germans or that they supported the idea of a german occupying of the Caucasus region under the war - for most of them it was a nightmare as they had to leave everything they once owned behind - for a rather unpleasant future in the Siberian as they had nothing - and was also kept under surveillance to after Stalin was dead - and most of them was allowed back in the late 1950s, the early 1960s... To a whole different place, where they had to rebuild their old life from scratch - not everyone was happy about it - but could not do anything about it - until the early 1990s when USSR broke up - and most of the former Soviet Union was on their own - even the parts who was part of the Russian Federation.. Extremist, like the Islamics who plagued, and still is a plague for Caucasus was born out of the ashes of the Soviet Union - and was doing its best to serve the links to Russia - both intern, but also to the other republics who was part of Russia - but who had few contacts with it, as russia have more than enough with keeping it all together in the 1990s...


The Tartars have had a rather bloody history them self - once they was the frontier of the Ottoman Empire - and was fighting the russians rather brutally and was also plundering outlying russian settlements every years - plundering their property - and take slaves to get back to the Ottoman Empire - to sell and get some money... Tartars was also splendid military forces - and in the age when a soldier of a horseback was the winner - the Tartars had absolutely a dominant player in this region - but as time was going - and the old Ottoman Empire was breaking up at the seams - and the Russian Empire was taking the land as their own - the tartars ended up as minorities in their own areas - and also to be used in the 1800s, and early 1900s as russian soldiers - mostly in areas where the Tartars could do a splendid hit and run attack against the enemy - or against minorities - like the jews in the western part of what is today a part of Ukraine - but then was part of the Russian parts of Poland (Until 1917 Poland was dominated and split between Germany and Russia) And many jews had to flee - to germany, Austria and other places - where theirs culture and traditions was some of a shock for even the western jews.... It was a mess - going from bad to worse - specially after antisemitism got in the way...

Russia is in a mess this days - and have possible been that for a long time to be honest- the last year have been trouble some for Putin - mostly because not everything have going the way of Putin - the economy is not that strong as believed - and the difference between the rich and the poor is as appalling as ever - and on every level of the soiticy you have to bribe someone to get things going... Putin might have build up the proudness of Russia after the 1990s who was a mess for Russia - but he have yet to make Russia is State who can stand on its own - without any strongman in power... And he have, at least for now being playing the nationalistic card for everything it is worth - and to be honest - doing it the smart way - but I'm not sure if Putin is in control anymore -it looks like his own word have coming back to bite him now....


Extremist - that be muslims - or christians is always a bad idea - they look at things in black and white - and have no idea how to work to look at the gray areas too.... But then again I think americans might look at its own problems, who is large, and is growing larger day for day, rather than point fingers to Russia ...

Diclotican

[OilemFirchen]

10. Yeah, since 1944.

Prior to the Russian expulsion of all Tatars they were the majority population in the Crimean peninsula. Russia has an abominable history with regard to the Tatars, and to pretend that this is uniquely Ukrainian is despicable revisionism.

[independentpiney]

12. The Tatars were a minority of less than 20% in the Crimea before Stalins deportations.

And prior to Russia conquering the Crimea from the Ottomans in the 1700's, the Tatars had a habit of making slave raids into southern Russia.

[OilemFirchen]

13. A cite would be useful.

Though Tatar population waned, sometimes dramatically, from the 15th century until 1944, they remained the majority population.

Their history prior to Russian annexation is utterly irrelevant to this conversation.

[independentpiney]

15. http://www.iccrimea.org/scholarly/jopohl.html

Third paragraph "This administrative unit actively promoted the cultural autonomy of the Crimean Tatars, who made up about a quarter of the territory's population." referencing Soviet policy in the 1920's and 1930's. Their history prior to Russian annexation is relevant considering the constant comparisons of their plight to that of indigenous Americans.

[OilemFirchen]

18. One quarter does not a minority make.

Crimea in the 20's and 30's was a conglomeration of quite a few ethnic groups - many of whom (Poles, Germans, Finns, Estonians, Latvians, Koreans, Chinese, Kurds, and Iranians) were deported during that period. Moreso, Bulgarians, Greeks, Armenians and Turks were deported along with the Tatars in 1944.

If you look at census figures, you'll see that as late as 1923, the Tatars were still arguably the majority population (Russians and Ukrainians were lumped together). At worst, they were the second largest. While I'll concede that a large shift in demographics occurred in the next two decades, the 1939 census, compiled by Moscow and dubious at best, still shows the Tatars as the second largest population group.

... I've never conflated any ethnic cleansing with another, so take it up with someone who enjoys that sport.

[independentpiney]

21. A large minority is still a minority nt

[OilemFirchen]

22. Not demographically.

The group with the largest percentage of the population is a plurality.

ETA: My post 18 incorrectly referred to the Tatars as the majority population. That should have read largest population group. My apologies for the confusion.

[newthinking]

16. And the ancestors of the Tatars wiped Greece and Kyiv rus from the areas before them

And we placed Japanese in internment camps and ruined their lives about the same time. So does that mean we still think like that?

[OilemFirchen]

19. And Hulk Hogan was a girl before his gonads dropped.

I'll do this for the third time on DU:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meskhetian_Turks#1989_deportation.5B23.5D_from_Uzbekistan_to_other_Soviet_countries

The Krasnodar Meskhetian Turks have suffered significant human rights violations, including the deprivation of their citizenship. They are deprived of civil, political and social rights and are prohibited from owning property and employment. Thus, since 2004, many Turks have left the Krasnodar region for the United States as refugees. They are still barred from full repatriation to Georgia.

This continues under Putin. Do you think he gives a half a shit about Muslims in Crimea?

[PosterChild]

14. Yes, SINCE the USSR. (nt)

[OilemFirchen]

4. In the interim, a mandatory yellow star would help with identification. (n/t)

[newthinking]

6. I would not be so quick to pass it off as not so complex. There was more going on

"The group blocked several highways near Simferopol, Bakhchysarai, Stary Krym, Yevpatoriya and Oktyabrskoye, Interfax-Ukraine reported. "

[Bosonic]

7. Prosecutors Warn Crimean Tatars Over 'Extremism' Amid Protests

Prosecutors Warn Crimean Tatars Over 'Extremism' Amid Protests

Prosecutors have warned Crimean Tatars that their main self-government body will be liquidated if it engages in "extremist" activities, a move that comes amid protests by local Tatars over the authorities' refusal to allow their leader, Mustafa Dzhemilev, into the region.

Natalya Poklonskaya, prosecutor general of the Ukrainian territory that was annexed by Russia last month, issued the warning on May 4 to Refat Chubarov, the leader of the organization, known as the Mejlis, according to a video of the meeting posted on YouTube.

Poklonskaya also accused Chubarov of organizing illegal demonstrations in support of Dzhemilev, who was denied entry into Crimea on May 3, a day after being turned back at a Moscow airport.

Thousands of Crimean Tatars broke through lines of Russian troops to meet Dzhemilev at a border-crossing point on May 3.

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-crimea-tatars-warned-extremism/25372706.html

[Igel]

17. Some reports go even further.

With the explicit threat that if the majlis continues with what Chubarov allowed, it might be prohibited. "zaboronyty" was the verb used.

The Russian government really didn't like the embarrassment of having thousands (if the # is reported correctly) of Tatars doing something like that. Daring to go see somebody they banned-but-didn't-ban for 5 years. (Aksenov said banned, the appropriate Russian ministry said that wasn't the case, but then Dzhemliev wasn't allowed in because he was banned. Classic "who knows what's up, and by the time you figure it out it'll all be resolved the way we want.&quot

[freshwest]

20. So, they don't believe in secular leadership. They are only interested in their religious one. n/t