Pope Francis Declares 2 Popes Saints

[DonViejo]

Source: ASSOCIATED PRESS

DANIELA PETROFF AND NICOLE WINFIELD – APRIL 27, 2014, 10:41 AM EDT

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis declared Popes John XXIII and John Paul II saints before some 800,000 people on Sunday in an unprecedented ceremony made even more historic by the presence of emeritus Pope Benedict XVI in St. Peter's Square.

Never before have a reigning pope and a retired pope celebrated Mass together in public, much less at an event honoring two of their most famous predecessors.

Benedict's presence was a reflection of the balancing act that Francis envisioned when he decided to canonize John and John Paul together, showing the unity of the Catholic Church by honoring popes beloved by conservatives and progressives alike.

Francis made that point clear in his homily, praising both new saints for their work associated with the Second Vatican Council, the groundbreaking meetings that brought the 2,000-year-old institution into modern times. John convened the council in 1962 while John Paul helped ensure its more conservative implementation and interpretation.

-snip-

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/pope-francis-popes-sainthood

[stopbush]

1. Yeah! That just solved a whole lot of the world's problems. NOT!

Fact: to become a saint, it must be PROVED that the person performed TWO MIRACLES. That's right, miracles, defined as "an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause."

Yes, there was objective proof that these two dudes performed MIRACLES. The world should rejoice that such miracles are real.

Childish bullshit.

[phil89]

2. Couldn't have said it better.

Unbelievable nonsense. I wonder what their miracles were?

[Brickbat]

5. Healings done in their names.

[stopbush]

10. 1. Made a lame man blind

2. Changed water into pee

[ChairmanAgnostic]

13. It was a miracle so few priests were arrested under JPII.

I guess that counts for something.

[Major Nikon]

3. It's really nothing more than a PR move

It's been that way for almost 2,000 years.

[LiberalElite]

6. FWIW Francis changed the rule

for John XXIII so he could be sainted at the same time with only one miracle. I always wondered what happened after someone was declared a saint. Did they get moved into a better neighborhood in heaven?

[rug]

15. No, it's defined as a medical cure that cannot be explained scientifically.

Even without the caps, that's much different than this:

Fact: to become a saint, it must be PROVED that the person performed TWO MIRACLES.

Sorry to interrupt with a fact.

Carry on.

[stopbush]

17. Really? And what was that medical cure that can't be explained scientifically in this case?

Was it anything like the bullshit "miracles" that were attributed to Mother Teresa, even though said miracles were adamantly contested by the doctors who actually cured the patients in question?

[rug]

18. For JP2, it was a paralyzing brain aneurysm.

Google her neurosurgeon, Alejandro Vargas Roman.

For John 23, it was a gastric hemorrhage, nonresponsive to 14 surgeries, which left her on the brink of death.

Google her physician, Giuseppe Zannini.

I know you're using these canonizations as a platform for all sorts of things, including Mother Theresa, but first things first.

[stopbush]

19. So I did a google search and here's what I found:

"The Costa Rican grandmother claims that miracle took place after she was told by doctors that she had less than a month to live, a written statement distributed by the church attests.

"However, her neurosurgeon, Alejandro Vargas, denies he ever told his pious patient any such thing.

"Though Vargas does admit Mora's condition was potentially fatal, he says he predicted only a two percent chance that the aneurysm would kill her, possibly bleeding into her brain within a year of the diagnosis, Reuters reported."

Source - The Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2357226/Costa-Rican-woman-claims-late-Pope-John-Paul-II-cured-fatal-brain-aneurysm-make-eligible-sainthood.html#ixzz308G7IhJw

The Giuseppe Zannini "confirmation" is even more laughable:

"Sister Caterina was hospitalized and underwent an operation which lasted for five hours. The inside of her stomach was completely covered with a strange and rare form of ulcerous tumours, caused, perhaps, by the improper functioning of the pancreas and spleen. The Professor was obliged to remove her stomach, except for a small piece the size of a prune. He also removed the pancreas and spleen. The esophagus was connected directly to the part of the intestine known as the fasting. It was also necessary to cut the aorta and connect it to the hollow part, making a deviation of the blood circulation. It was a delicate operation and the probabilities for the patient to come out of the operating room alive were quite slim.

"Before the operation, Sister Caterina tells us, I had prayed to the Holy Virgin of Pompei, to whom I am very devout. The day after the operation, while I was thanking the Virgin for having come through the operation safely, a Sister from our Congregation told me: It was Pope John who saved you. I had placed his image on the bed of the operating room and had continued to pray throughout the operation." http://www.saintanthonyofpadua.net/messaggero/pagina_stampa.asp?R=&ID=80

Idiot - she "thanks the Virgin" for having come through the operation. Apparently, no thanks for the doctor who operated, though.

The story goes on: she felt better, then worse, then better, etc. She went through a number of surgeries. Guess what? All those surgeries eventually added up and cured her, not some visit from Pope John's ghost. Nowhere in the link I provided does Zannini say it was a miracle that she survived.

Childish bullshit. The rants of a nun who is predisposed to believe in such shit and who gives no credit to the surgeons who operated on her and gave her a chance to survive. This is what you're hanging your rah-rah-religion hat on?

[rug]

20. For one thing, I'm not hanging it on The Daily Mail or "saintanthonyofpadua.net".

If you want to see how these claims are investigated, read this:

http://www.economist.com/node/304212

Or, you can read a book:

http://www.amazon.com/Medical-Miracles-Doctors-Saints-Healing/dp/019533650X

[stopbush]

22. The bullshit was reported by Reuters and picked up by the Daily Mail.

Is Reuters not good enough for you to "hang it on?"

You're displaying behavior typical of religionists and Republicans: the facts disturb your little fantasy, so you question the facts.

And I know all about how the Church "investigates" these self-serving "miracles." Read "The Missionary Position" by Christopher Hitchens and you'll learn all about the bullshit. The Reuters story I cited also exposes their bullshit "investigations."

I won't bother reading the book you cited. I'm sure you'll understand my not reading an entire book when you can't be bothered to read a DU post from a person written in response to your own challenge that they respond to you.

[rug]

24. I'll just leave your posr reeking out there as an example of typical "behavior".

[stopbush]

25. It speaks for itself, as do the easily exposed lies about miracles occurring.

[rug]

26. It certainly does speak to something. It's not what you think, though.

[stopbush]

27. It's easy to toss out meaningless one-liners. Harder to address my exposing the lie

about those miracles. You're just pissed that you were the one who provided the sources to expose the lies.

[rug]

28. "my exposing the lie", Lol!

You keep on doing that.

[stopbush]

29. Rug. Good for LOLs. Not much else.

[rug]

31. You have now completed your descent into inanity.

A marked improvement over your prior ponderous pronouncement.

[stopbush]

32. Just following your lead.

[rug]

33. Prudent but doubtful.

[progressoid]

21. Miracles are getting weaker and weaker.

Like God's power:

[flying rabbit]

23. LOL nt

[Helen Borg]

4. In other words...

Two human beings who died long ago were just declared superhuman by an old man with a hat. Makes a lot of sense.

[Moostache]

7. Hey, let's be real for a minute...

I find it a miracle that there is even still a Catholic Church (and I was RAISED in it)...so that's one miracle for each of them right off the cuff...since Francis made the rules only one "verified" miracle, that pretty much clears the rolls for ANYONE to be a saint.

I am pushing hard for Sainthood for my pet hamster who died back on February 5, 1978. Since I was, at the time, a practicing (albeit by parental force) Catholic, by extension that makes my pet also a practicing Catholic. Since there is still a Catholic Church despite the utter nonsense of its teaching and unplumbed depths of depravity in its priesthood (too many raped children that have forever remained silent to EVER forget), that is my pet hamster's miracle.

Since no second miracle is needed any longer (Thank you big PaPa Frank!), that should be it really, but I will go the full 2 miracle limit on this one and propose that my avoiding a beating for playing with my dad's shaving cream and razor earlier in '78 was also the divine intercession of my pet hamster. He escaped from his cage that very same day and had to be liberated from behind the refrigerator, which very conveniently distracted my father from the shaving cream until after bedtime and spared the rod!

There you go...TWO confirmed miracles from one rodent!

I proudly present to the world, the newest saint of the holy Catholic and Apostolic Church....Saint Chewbacca of Indiana, also known in the vernacular as Saint Chewie, may he rest in peace.

[NYtoBush-Drop Dead]

8. what a joke.

[SorellaLaBefana]

11. Moreover, what *is* a Saint?

Is this condition described somewhere in the Christian Bible?

Demons are, as are witches, angels and such, but one seems unable to find such a creature as a saint.

[stopbush]

30. You can't spell "saint" without "ain't."

[Archae]

12. It's traditional...

One of the Popes, John something, was made a saint.

He gambled most of the Papal treasury away, and was a horndog who was beaten to death by the husband of one of his mistresses.

Another Pope, who was made a saint, named Cyril had his followers burn down the library at Alexandria and murder the library's head, a woman named Hypatia.

So John Paul II gets made into a saint, even though he covered up molesting priests and cozied up to a corrupt head of an order.

[Kaleva]

14. Pretty cool! Thanks for posting.

[840high]

16. Thanks for posting. A blessed

day for me.

[Owl]

34. Nonsense, all of it.