Russia Wants World War Three, Says Ukraine

[dipsydoodle]

Source: Sky News

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk has accused Russia of wanting to start "a third world war".

Mr Yatseniuk said that Russia wanted to occupy Ukraine "militarily and politically", creating a conflict that would spread to the rest of Europe.

"Attempts at military conflict in Ukraine will lead to a military conflict in Europe," Mr Yatseniuk told the interim cabinet in remarks broadcast live.

"The world has not yet forgotten World War Two, but Russia already wants to start World War Three."

Read more: http://news.sky.com/story/1249159/russia-wants-world-war-three-says-ukraine

[liberal N proud]

1. So does John McCain

[Bosonic]

3. Thankfully McCain has little influence

Unfortunately the same cannot be said for Putin.

[RKP5637]

4. Imagine McCain as president with Palin's mouth. Remaining humanity would be on a short time line. nt

[Democracyinkind]

2. That's rather ignorant, although it is understandable why he would say that.

I do believe that Putin would risk starting the Third World War. But only if he were losing his power. Right now, he's in a better position than he ever was.

He (or rather: they) has (have) no incentive to do so, not to mention that the Russian armed forces have absolutely no means of projecting military force in any significant way in theaters that are not adjacent to their borders.

[jakeXT]

5. Tymoshenko denies it, but on tape said she wants to nuke Russians, Tarasenko wants nukes and Poland

In an interview with a major Polish newspaper, Tarasenko stated that territories of Poland like Przemysl should be "returned" to Ukraine and that it should regain nuclear weapons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector

Discussing the fate of Ukraine's eight million ethnic Russians with Shufrych, Tymoshenko was also heard as saying that they should be "nuked".

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-pm-wipe-out-russians-2014-3

[bob27]

47. Now there's some fascism.

People on this site throw that word around as if any right-winger were a fascist. Tymoshenko's politics are obviously different in kind from the right-wing politics we are used to in the US. She is not like some tea-party conservative, which is about as far right as anyone gets in the US. Even the teabaggers don't advocate the kind of sh*t she supports.

[ballyhoo]

59. Excellent, Bob. I don't trust

her at all. Her pictures with the braided halo surrounding her head is stunning in its inaccuracy of the spirit of the wearer. However, I have to admit her beauty at first fooled me. Alas.

[Adrahil]

6. I don't think so. I think they just want a good ole fascist imperial Russian state.

From wikipedia:

"Fascists sought to unify their nation through an authoritarian state that promoted the mass mobilization of the national community[6][7] and were characterized by having leadership that initiated a revolutionary political movement aiming to reorganize the nation along principles according to fascist ideology.[8] Fascist movements shared certain common features, including the veneration of the state, a devotion to a strong leader, and an emphasis on ultranationalism and militarism. Fascism views political violence, war, and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation,[6][9][10][11] and it asserts that stronger nations have the right to expand their territory by displacing weaker nations.[12]"

Sound familiar?

[Adrahil]

52. Of course I do...

... but last I checked it was not Right Sector goggling up portions of neighboring states. Also, last time I checked, they don't hold a lot of power in the Kiev government. You know THAT, right?

But byu all means, ignore the REALITY of Putin and what he's actually doing to hype the Right Sector boogeyman.

[TBF]

7. So do the hawks in this country --

as is painfully obvious from stories like this. FFS.

[nyabingi]

8. It should be clear to all by now...

...that the post-coup government in Kiev is entirely the creation of the US government and they're following orders sent from Washington. Of course my statements will be dismissed as Putinist propaganda but it is no secret that vice president Biden recently showed up in Kiev to express his support (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/world/europe/biden-ukraine.html?_r=0) and even more ominously, John Brennan from the CIA recently traveled to Kiev (http://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2014/04/16/why-cia-director-brennan-visited-kiev-in-ukraine-the-covert-war-has-begun/) to help out Obama's new right-wing creation (and of course the new Ukrainian government immediately dispatches the military to attack easterners instead of listening to their grievances).

So, the US works with rightist thugs to install pro-EU/western officials ("Yats" included), starts sending troops to NATO-aligned states in the region, starts rotating warships in and out of the Black Sea, imposes sanctions against Russian leaders for "invading" a country that asked to join them, and has begun calling the eastern Ukrainian protesters "terrorists" (adopting the language of the Kiev authorities). So who is the aggressor here folks?

The American media wants us to fixate on Putin as the bad guy in this situation when any honest observer should be able to easily see (and I mean easily!) that the US has been the aggressor from day one and John Kerry, who never saw a war he didn't support, is looking to further inflame the situation. This can only lead to massive bloodshed and the loss of life, yet liberals are bending over backwards to excuse the belligerence of Obama. Smh...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

9. Who's the aggressor here?

My guess would be the ones kidnapping journalists and disemboweling dissenting politicians.

The Ukrainian government--the one you claim to be "illegitimate"--has little interest in acting overly aggressive at this time. Not considering who's amassed at its Eastern border, not to mentioned mixed in with the peace loving "protesters" wearing green camo.

[dipsydoodle]

10. "has little interest in acting overly aggressive at this time"

That's basically because they want the west to do it on their behalf.

Carp anglers frequently wear camo - no big deal and its functional.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-e_8UjwP_yw8/Ts-eu8EoP_I/AAAAAAAAAR4/gi2S0TZmZlQ/s320/Screen+shot+2011-11-25+at+13.56.06.png

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. So what you're saying is that these are a bunch of carp anglers?

Gotcha.

[The Magistrate]

19. On An A.T.V., Sir, Like Everybody's Got ... What?

The Nile is in full flood here for some....

[dipsydoodle]

20. The subject was wearing camo - nothing else

Carp anglers stick to boily throwing sticks.



Mind you - I wouldn't want to be within 100 yards of one those used with a ball bearing instead of a boily come to that. Diablo catapults / slingshots to you can be even more effective.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

31. What subject (singular)?

We're talking about hundreds, perhaps thousands of subjects (plural) currently occupying Ukrainian government buildings while holding AK-47s and grenade launchers.

[dipsydoodle]

37. peace loving "protesters" wearing green camo

Your words : not mine.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

39. Perhaps you don't understand "sarcasm". nt

[ballyhoo]

26. Do you have a link to that photo so I can check

it out?

[penultimate]

28. I have never tried fishing with an RPG. it sounds messy though

[jakeXT]

44. Fishing in Russia --- lol

[ballyhoo]

25. You are 100 per cent right...

Nothing more than Tom Sawyer getting the other boys (and one notorious girl) to paint the fence while the New York Times writes about it.

[The Magistrate]

27. Back From Your Break, Sir?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014787623#post7

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014787623#post10

How are they doing over at 'Wide Awake Gentlie' today?

[ballyhoo]

30. Don't know, sir. I had never been to that site

before. But, sir, you were right to call me on it. I shall remain vigilant, sir, for both my errors and others. I marvel at your assertion there is no evidence of the CIA's involvement in Yukraine and what use to be Yukraine. I'm sure the cancelled checks will one day be forthcoming.

[The Magistrate]

33. If You Say So, Sir

But you are not likely to be widely believed, since it is immediately obvious from the very title that it is an rabid hate site. No one could imagine otherwise who had enough sense and judgement to navigate a stop sign without tripping over the curb. And for someone who was 'in country' getting buzzed by friendly VC, and a regional manager for Texaco and a published writer for forty years, it strikes an odd note indeed....

[ballyhoo]

43. I few that as positive, sir......

bye

[LanternWaste]

48. The award for the most imaginative rationalization goes to...

And the award for the most imaginative rationalization goes to...

"Carp anglers frequently wear camo - no big deal and its functional."

[ballyhoo]

56. lol. Good one.

[nyabingi]

21. What???

They have "little interest in acting overly aggressive"?? Have you even been paying attention to what is going on man? They are sending in the MILITARY along with members of Right Sector (who can't wait to bash the heads of some ethnic Russians) and you're saying they're not being aggressive.

This is truly bizarro world lol!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

38. Okay. Cut the bullshit. Please.

These are not "peace loving protesters" with placards. Hell, they're not even rioters with sticks, stones and Molotov Cocktails.

These are paramilitary (most likely with the assistance of Russian agents) wearing military fatigues, carrying AK-47s, grenade launchers, and who have seized government buildings, airfields, tanks and set up checkpoints with razor wire.

[nyabingi]

61. Some are, but not all of them

If you look closely, you will see a lot of ordinary Ukrainians out there manning the barricades, some with face masks and makeshift "armor", but they are not significantly different from what you saw at the Maidan protests. I never said they were "peace-loving protesters" Tommy, you did. They, like their western countrymen, have grievances that are legitimate, yet people like you seemingly feel that their answer should come from military force.

Why are these people "terrorists" (as the NYT has taken to calling them) but not the far-right thugs from Right Sector when they out attacking riot police?

[davidpdx]

41. It's easier to blame the right wing fascists for everything the pro-Russian side does

They are getting frame I tell you, framed!

[shawn703]

11. "Of course my statements will be dismissed as Putinist propaganda"

You think?

[The Magistrate]

13. Your Statements Will Be Dismissed As Propaganda Supporting Putin, Sir, Because That Is What They Are

It is obvious to everyone what you have broken your long sleep here to do.

[nyabingi]

22. Do you dispute what I'm saying...

...and if so, tell me why. It is obvious people like you don't want to have your beliefs questioned and challenged, so simply dismiss it.

None of you can defend your position.

[Demeter]

23. For what it's worth around here, I agree 100% with what you said

and I think Obama should go home, take the troops out of Poland, Africa, Afghanistan and the Middle East, put down the Droneboy playstation, and deal with domestic issues.

I'm also 100% confident that he will do none of these things. After all, why start now?

[nyabingi]

35. Thank you Demeter

These people here are so far up Obama's a-s that they simply can't recognize those things as negatives. I don't dislike Obama, and in fact, I agree with him way more than disagree (mostly on the domestic front), but I'm not going to let that keep me from recognizing his shortcomings.

[The Magistrate]

24. Not Necessary, Sir: It Falls Of Its Own Weight

Since it is erected on the sandy foundation of an unsupported claim that the ouster of Yanukovyk was nothing but a C.I.A. plot, which is a claim that is so far from proved as to require its treatment as a falsehood.

[nyabingi]

32. I didn't say it was a CIA plot.

People who want to denounce "conspiracy theorists" and acolytes of Alex Jones fall back on the "CIA" thing, but as you should know, US government NGO's do a lot of the work that used to be the territory of the CIA (the CIA has been having fun drone bombing people, so they don't have time for regime change operations now I guess).

Your government has been open about providing financial support to "pro-democracy" groups (to the tune of $5 billion) and sided early on with the people demonstrating against the Yanukovich government (John McCain, Chris Murphy). Victoria Nuland passed out cookies and was intercepted suggesting Yatsenyuk should be in the new government (which he is). The way it went down has all the hallmarks of US intervention, but you'd have to have noticed the pattern of all the "colored revolutions" that have taken place not to miss it.

It seems people like you are happy to believe our government is always forthcoming and open with us about what they're doing, eh?

[The Magistrate]

34. Not Even Close Enough For Governmet Work, Sir

I see you trot out the five billions wheeze, a figure presented by your fellow propagandists as subsidy to the Maidan protests, when it is actually the sum of all U.S. foreign aid to Ukraine since its independence in 1991.

[nyabingi]

42. USAID, the NED, IRI, NDI and other such groups

provide money to fund the efforts of those opposing the government that is to be unseated (and this is over the course of many in Ukraine). The US has been busy trying to pick off the former Soviet states and has been investing a lot of money to accomplish it (that's something I picked up from Alex Jones' website lol).

I'm getting the impression that you aren't necessarily defending US malfeasance and meddling but that you may not now a lot about what these groups actually do overseas. Despite their flowery-sounding names and their advocacy for "democracy", they actually work towards undermining democracies in many cases.

[The Magistrate]

66. I Love It When People Try And Educate Me, Sir

The amounts spent by the groups you reference are very small. They have very little influence.

[nyabingi]

70. Well if you're not really open to listening to

anything other than what you already know (or think you know), why should anyone even bother engaging you in a conversation? I guess you're just gonna stand over in the corner with your fingers in your ears?

Ask the citizens of Venezuela, who are dealing with open and violent rebellion from a segment of their population who are having trouble dealing with the results of their elections, if the NED has very little influence...

[The Magistrate]

72. Distraction Will Not Help You, Sir

Nor will you get far posturing as if you have something to teach me, or anyone here.

It is quite true the U.S. assisted a coup against Col. Chavez; this was done more or less openly from the embassy. I was very glad to see it fail, as I supported Col. Chavez, and still support the Bolivarian movement he established. The muscle for the coup was the native resistance to a revolutionary restructuring of Venezuela, centered in families of established wealth, and persons rooted in managerial and entrepreneurial positions, and their dependents, as well as some elements of the urban police. Though a minority, the number was substantial enough to get some crowds out, and without that substantial supporting element, and native leadership calling the tune, it would have been utterly impossible for the U.S. to have contrived anything.

[nyabingi]

73. What distraction?

You sought to downplay the role US-based NGO's are playing in the mayhem in Ukraine, but I don't think you can dismiss them so cavalierly (thus my allusion to Venezuela).

You've shown me, quite clearly, that you already know everything so why would I presume to be teaching you anything?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

40. Here you go. Pants on fire.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

[nyabingi]

55. The rioting and resulting coup happened after...

...years of money-spending (which we could've used back home, eh?) laying the groundwork for what took place in March. I don't know who said the US paid $5 billion to rioters - that's as ridiculous as it sounds.

[EX500rider]

77. You mean this money? examples:

The United States spent about $20 million on Peace Corps programs in Ukraine over the past four years. It spent about $40 million through U.S. AID on health programs in the countries since 2010 -- fighting HIV/AIDs, malaria and providing for maternal and child health. The United States spent an additional $80 million or so working on projects related to weapons of mass destruction

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

[ballyhoo]

46. I too agree 100 per cent with what you said. It

has become rather easy to look through the headlines of the New York Times. When Bankers want a war they can always rely on the media.

[bob27]

50. +1 nt

[snappyturtle]

15. Absolutely. nt

[bunnies]

17. What... no link to infowars?

smh

[bob27]

54. Oh, really.

Can't you come up with anything besides an unfounded smear?

[bunnies]

64. talk about unfounded smears.

That's exactly what I responded to. But hey - Im sure its just a coincidence. Lots of DUers have same-brain with Alex Jones.

[bunnies]

68. Because its infowars consipiracy bullshit and I treat it accordingly. nt

[ballyhoo]

67. Negative. Lots of DUers, including some

I have read for a long time, are not letting this media creation on the behalf of world banks grow without some inspection. I applaud them for that.

[bunnies]

69. Right. Carry on then.

[bob27]

49. +1 nt

[jeff47]

58. So the faction that controls 8% of the Kiev government

is "in control".

Uh-huh.

imposes sanctions against Russian leaders for "invading" a country that asked to join them

So the Iraq war was good then? See, the Kurds asked us to invade to get rid of Saddam.

The American media wants us to fixate on Putin as the bad guy in this situation when any honest observer

Yeah, it's pretty odd to label him the bad guy after he admitted to sending in troops to Crimea before the protests started. After all, taking your neighbor's land is a sign of affection, right?

[nyabingi]

62. The government in Kiev right now

is taking their marching orders from Washington, so I guess you're right in a way. The other 92% of Ukrainian government isn't being run by the Ukrainian government it seems to me.

Did the Iraqi hold a referendum on whether they wanted to become the 51st state of the US or am I missing something? Yes, they wanted to get rid of Saddam but they weren't asking to become a part of the US. Bad analogy jeff47.

I still don't see how people can claim, with no smile on their face, that Russia "took" or "invaded" a land that wanted to become a part of that nation lol. The Crimeans were celebrating the reunification, not calling for western intervention to free them from those evil Russians.

[jeff47]

63. The fact that you are claiming the government is controlled by the party with 8%

should indicate to you that the stories you have been reading are false.

Did the Iraqi hold a referendum on whether they wanted to become the 51st state of the US or am I missing something? Yes, they wanted to get rid of Saddam but they weren't asking to become a part of the US.

Why would that 2nd step be so critical? In both cases, the people wanted a major power to come in and free them.

I still don't see how people can claim, with no smile on their face, that Russia "took" or "invaded" a land that wanted to become a part of that nation

Some did want to become part of Russia.

Some didn't. Referendum? Turns out they took the Republican model - not everyone gets to vote.

You can't point to celebrations of one group as proof that all groups are thrilled by it.

As for claims that Russia "took" or "invaded", we're just taking Putin at his word. Was he lying when he said he sent in troops to start the protests in Crimea?

[olddad56]

12. He is wrong, the world has forgotten WW2, and that is all the more reason we could have a WW3.

[The Magistrate]

14. There Is Something To That, Sir

I believe it was Herodotus who observed that wars tended to break out at intervals of roughly thirty years, and considered the cause of this to be that in this interval of time, the grown men who remember the last one and knew what war was would have mostly died off, and the young who were raised on tales of glory and sought same grown to manhood and come to dominate the polis....

[Sunlei]

16. Putin doesn't have as much sales to Assad these days. Ukraine should be worried.

[4Q2u2]

29. Great(Sad) Irony

Russia and Putin are arms sellers to Iraq.

In 2012 they inked a 4.6 billion dollar sale that was cancelled a month later.
Now Iran is going to sell Iraq Russian made ammunition and weapons.

[dipsydoodle]

75. Ukraine should be worried

in terms of job losses yes.

[JVS]

51. If Russia wanted WWIII all they'd have to do is launch some nukes.

[dipsydoodle]

53. Exactly

Hence the lameness of the headline and its origin too.

[ballyhoo]

60. And that SU-24 wouldn't

have been simply buzzing. Who really are the provocateurs here? Putin with his team of RPG-carrying anglers off to Lake Geneva, or someone else?

[L0oniX]

57. Huge pile of bullshit.

[snagglepuss]

71. .

[bobthedrummer]

74. So does the PNAC net n/t

[LeftOfWest]

76. + 1,000,000 n/t.