Vets die on secret wait list

[MiaCulpa]

Source: CNN

<blockquote&gt CNN) -- At least 40 U.S. veterans died waiting for appointments at the Phoenix Veterans Affairs Health Care system, many of whom were placed on a secret waiting list.

The secret list was part of an elaborate scheme designed by Veterans Affairs managers in Phoenix who were trying to hide that 1,400 to 1,600 sick veterans were forced to wait months to see a doctor, according to a recently retired top VA doctor and several high-level sources.

For six months, CNN has been reporting on extended delays in health care appointments suffered by veterans across the country and who died while waiting for appointments and care. But the new revelations about the Phoenix VA are perhaps the most disturbing and striking to come to light thus far.

Internal e-mails obtained by CNN show that top management at the VA hospital in Arizona knew about the practice and even defended it.</blockquote>

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/health/veterans-dying-health-care-delays/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

---

Please help shed light on this and share far and wide.

[NYtoBush-Drop Dead]

1. Why Arizona and no where else?

What has the Governor to do with this?

[Stargazer09]

28. I strongly suspect

That the Phoenix VA is not the only VA hospital doing this. It's just a matter of time before more allegations come to light.

Those poor veterans should not have had to die.

[former9thward]

35. It is a federal agency.

The governor or state has nothing to do with it.

[NYtoBush-Drop Dead]

44. and it's not fllled with her cronies?

[former9thward]

46. I'll try again.

It is a federal agency. The federal government, currently led by President Obama, staffs the VA. If there are any cronies they belong to Obama.

[NYtoBush-Drop Dead]

50. Ah... So the PResident is trying to take down

Vets in Red Welfare States.... that makes perfect sense...

[msanthrope]

2. Someone needs criminal charging. nt

[dotymed]

32. Absolutely! These Vets got the death sentence.

Criminal charges should be brought against EVERYONE (even the big shots) complicit in this travesty.
Nuremberg trials prove that "I was just following orders" is no excuse.
It is very sad that Americas "whistle-blower" protections offer no help anymore, but allowing people to die is
unconscionable.
Damn, is there anywhere that "we" will draw the line?
UNITE at all costs. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" when it comes to creating an actual Democracy where "Our" representatives actually represent US.

[AngryDem001]

3. I can't even FATHOM this!

We send men and women to some hellhole, they get blown to pieces, they suffer unimaginable psychological stress and illness. Their families get to see their loved ones come back riddled with physical and mental injuries.

And when they get back home, do we do all we can to help them? NO! WE LET THEM DIE WHILE WAITING TO SEE A FUCKING DOCTOR! Does the VA do anything to STOP this? NO! They fucking DEFEND it!

Someone PLEASE tell me why this is the "greatest country in the world!". CUZ I SURE DON'T FUCKING SEE IT!!!!!

[RKP5637]

12. It's another indication of what America is really about. Money in America is the

#1 priority, but quite often people come in last. Solders are often just another tool to make money, and often not given a fuck about when they return home. ... but in delusional America, many often still don't get what goes on. It's quite sad.

[AngryDem001]

18. 1 Timothy 6:10

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

Funny how Repigs never quote THAT particular passage. Oh no, gotta stop them gays from gettin married.

GAG.

[HappyFang]

20. latest breaking news

OMG this is horrible.This is how our vets are treated,,At one time i was proud of our country..Not so much anymore..

[Archae]

4. Some in this need to be canned!

[jtuck004]

5. Why is it worse when there is a secret wait list? They are dying on very public lists all the time,

with the head of the VA saying that their backlog will be taken care of...by 2015.

No, that's not the Onion. They are actually so proud of it taking so long (said this last year) they put it on the front of the VA web site:

http://www.vba.va.gov/REPORTS/mmwr/

"Claims that have been pending for more than 125 days are characterized as "backlog." VA’s goal is to eliminate the backlog of compensation claims pending for more than 125 days by the end of 2015."

Maybe soldiers should wait to shoot at anyone until the backlog is "eliminated".

[former9thward]

37. You are mixing two problems.

The OP is about a wait list for appointments for medical services. The information in your post is about the wait list for disability claims. Both have backlogs.

[jtuck004]

41. I think the two are inter-related and a problem with an organizational culture, driven by

the culture of the larger population of people who love to cheer but aren't really all that anxious to pay the bill for their follies. That's a problem.

But yeah, what you said.

[DeSwiss]

6. K&R

- Admission of the TRUTH is the first step toward healing......

We have to understand that government as we know it today, is not in place for the well being of the public, but rather for the perpetuation of their establishment and their power. Just like every other institution within a monetary system. Government is a monetary invention for the sake of economic and social control and its methods are based upon self-preservation, first and foremost. All a government can really do is to create laws to compensate for an inherent lack of integrity within the social order.

In society today the public is essentially kept distracted and uninformed. This is the way that governments maintain control. If you review history, power is maintained through ignorance.

~Peter Joseph

[erpowers]

7. Why is This Happening

So, why is this happening? Is it a lack of doctors? Why are the wait times so long?

[csziggy]

29. The system never scaled up after Bush declared two wars

An acquaintance needed knee surgery about ten years ago. Since the part time job he could do had no insurance, he tried going through the VA. Besides the local VA hospital had one the better knee surgeons in the area.

"Had" was the word - right after my friend's first visit with the doctor, the doctor was sent to Iraq to take care immediate needs for soldiers injured in the field. The local VA didn't replace the doctor since he was supposed to "be back in a couple of months when combat in Iraq was over."

So my friend waited rather than trying to go somewhere else even though he was in a lot of pain and could not function. He had to move out of a great apartment to a more expensive place since he couldn't get up and down the one flight of stairs to his old place. He gave away his dog because he couldn't walk it.

Three years later, he'd finally gotten a full time job at a call center that had full insurance coverage and had enough leave time that he could get his knees operated on by a private surgeon. The VA knee guy was still in Iraq and the hospital had stopped making promises about when he'd be back.

After thirty years in the service, his VA benefits were not available to him when he needed them because the Bush crowd distorted the facts about the wars they started, refused to scale up the VA to take care of previous and currently serving military, and simply didn't fund the VA to take care of what had been promised.

[forthemiddle]

47. A lot of things were Bushs fault

This isn't one of them. Sorry, but I have worked, via contract, for the VA Hospitals (Phoenix being one of them) for more than a decade. The VA system has ALWAYS been backlogged. In fact during the Bush years they actually improved.
This is a fact! I don't think it has ANYTHING to do with Bush, but there has actually been much more scrutiny because of past problems.
I also have personal experience with my Dad using our local VA. 7 years ago he was hospitalized with extreme respiratory distress. He was diagnosed with possible pulmonary fibrosis (a terminal, non curable disease). Over the past two months he his condition has fallen of the cliff. He is now totally unable to function, and is on 24/7 oxygen therapy at 6L at rest. When we tried to make him an appointment with the VA pulmonologist we were given an appointment for 3 months out. We also found out that since he was hospitalized 7 years ago he NEVER again saw a pulmonologist, and in fact never even had another pulmonary function test.
This is despite him going gradually downhill, and seeing his primary care, and rheumatologist every 6 months.
This is unacceptable, and maybe I should have been more involved with his health care, but he didn't want us to worry about it. Whenever I would ask him about his health care he would say "They say everything is OK". If this was private care I would look into malpractice, but since it is the VA that is not an option.
Would faster care have changed his outcome? I don't know, all I do know is that after only 2 months of private care, he is on treatment which should have been started 2 years ago!

[LanternWaste]

48. Therefore easily evidenced by supplying an objective link supporting your allegation?

"In fact during the Bush years they actually improved. This is a fact!"

Therefore easily evidenced by supplying an objective link supporting your allegation?

[forthemiddle]

49. mea culpa

I should not have said "this is a fact" without backup, which I do not have.
I should have said, with my experience with the VA for well over a decade, wait times seemed to have improved.

Part of the "problem" (isn't a problem in my view) was that during the Clinton administration the VA was opened to a greater amount of vets. They expanded the eligibility which totally overwhelmed the VA for a while. During the Bush years, naturally the waiting list decreased. When the eligibility was expanded http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Health_Administration, there was naturally a huge influx of patients, and that took a while to work through.

I am NOT defending Bush, I was just pointing out that the waiting list isn't his fault (nor is it Obamas fault now), it instead is the fault of to many veterans seeking care.

[mountain grammy]

8. It's just another symptom of the screwed up health care in America

In countries with universal healthcare (the rest of the world) the triage for healthcare works pretty well. Are there waiting lists for non life threatening conditions? Yes, but urgent care is given urgently.
My husband always qualified for VA benefits but, thankfully, he has never needed them. Now, with the ACA, he has private insurance. There are horror stories everywhere of vets dying while waiting for appointments. We have a friend who died a few months ago, and a few weeks after he died, his sister got a call from the VA with an appointment. Another friend, just diagnosed with liver cancer, qualified for Medicaid under the ACA and is undergoing tests. He told me he called the VA first and was told the wait was four months for an appointment.
I also have two friends who lives were saved at the VA Hospital in Denver, and others who had successful surgical procedures for non life threatening conditions, (which they waited a couple of months for) so I think the care is good. The facilities are simply overwhelmed by veterans, who like so many Americans, do not have access to healthcare.

[olddad56]

10. I think it is a larger symptom of how many vets are sick and dying because of their exposure to

the toxic materials used in the weapons the US uses in their illegal invasions. This is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. Bush and his crime family belong in prison.

[RKP5637]

14. Yep, in effect, we are using chemical weapons with the toxins bullets are laced with. ... but

everyone gets a free pass. It's quite difficult to feel proud about America and its empire. ... but none generally give a fuck about what "we the people" think.

[mountain grammy]

17. Oh, for sure. My husband was lucky to have not been exposed to agent orange

during his year in Vietnam. But I have little doubt that the cancers and chronic illnesses that have claimed friends our age who were vets, were the results of war.

[olddad56]

19. now does he know that he wasn't exposed to agent orange?

[mountain grammy]

25. by the time he was there, 1970-71, the use of agent orange

had been drastically reduced. That said, we are realistic that he may have been exposed, he's just sure it was never used in the area he was stationed while he was there.

[JustAnotherGen]

31. Can I say mountain grammy

My father was one of the first green berets - Army Captain. He died in August 2011 - didn't even get his six months to a year.

I beg you - please do not believe Agent Orange was the ONLY thing used. Don't believe that lie. It's an absolute lie - and the fact that post his death we petitioned and won back disability payments to 1978 for my mom (all the money they paid out of pocket because the military lied) in November 2011 tells you all you need to know. Fed Gov admitted it.

They admitted - the Rainbow of Agents.

Agent Orange was the 'sweetest' - look up white and blue. Green. Pink. And those were still used extensively in the 1970's. And not just in South East Asia. I would not be suprised if we aren't using them today - I put nothing past my country.

Also be aware of the residue / touch impact. So your love could have been in a plane that it was once transported in and that contact is there.

I'm not a scientist - just one woman who reaches out and helps when I can.

The number one thing you can do IF you can afford it outside of the V.A.? Chest biopsies. That pnuemonia ain't pneumonia. It will NOT show up in his bloodwork.

It's cancer - lung cancer - and it is extremely virulent - before it shows up in his blood it will most likely be stage 4.

If I could go back to January 2011 - I would have dragged my father by his ear to any doctor other than the VA. I would have insisted that he get a lung biopsy.

This after the 'liver' issues he had for 40 years. . .

[mountain grammy]

33. Thank you for your very good advice.

Thanks to the ACA we do have private insurance and I will drag him off for a complete physical.

[JustAnotherGen]

39. Please please do!

[mountain grammy]

42. I will, I promise.

My dear husband will be 64 in May. His birthday present will be a Dr.'s appointment.

[olddad56]

43. my brother in law was 67 years old when he started having problems related to agent orange...

He was there in 65-66.

[lunasun]

27. Well you can guess that if like folks I know, your records were destroyed "due to war conditions"

that you were likely exposed

I do believe that there is now some compensation/acknowledgement based on location and year served re: agent orange ( brought to us by Monsanto btw it is like super duper roundup beware) but it came way too late for many vets .

[dotymed]

40. Sadly,

The "compensation" was so small, especially compared to the hell endured that it sure as hell wasn't actual compensation.
I remember (when my Father was still alive) going to pick him up at the airport. When he left country he was robust and a little over 200 pounds. I was 11. The man at the airport had completely grey hair (it was black when he left for his year in hell. He didn't act like my Father (my hero) and weighed maybe 140 pounds.
When he got home, took off his shirt to shower, he was covered with open sores which scared me,he was a pilot who was shot down twice and I naively thought that may have come from this. I asked and he told me what they had told him: "It's just jungle rot."
Many years later, after he was forced to retire due to health problems (he was up for a promotion to Major). He got a check for his exposure to agent orange.
I think it was $5,000 and maybe $500 quarterly after that, He died at 53 so he did not get much "compensation."

After he returned from Viet-Nam, he never slept an entire night. I always woke up (my room was directly across from my parents) when he clicked open his zippo and lit a cigarette. Every night. I really miss him.

At least back then we had an actual middle class. We and others could afford a vacation, food and every few years....a new car.
Not anymore.

[hack89]

23. What toxic materials are you talking about? Nt

[lunasun]

30. well one would be the burn pits that are common and also the preventative cocktail of meds given

with now proven side effects too
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/07/gulf-war-syndrome-veterans_n_2634838.html

"I asked if they had any masks and they said no," Wymore recalled. "Then I asked if I could use the gas mask with my chem-suit. They said no, that the filters cost too much to replace."

Wymore has been diagnosed with constrictive bronchiolitis, among a number of other problems that he couldn't fully list in an interview. "Every morning I throw up film from my stomach," he said. "And they don't know what is causing it."

One of those soldiers is former Army Capt. Leroy Torres, who spent four years in the Middle East before being laid low -- and forced into early retirement before he turned 40 this past fall -- by a complement of respiratory, cardiovascular, neurological and gastrointestinal issues. After two years of shuttling from doctor to doctor, Torres was finally diagnosed by Miller in 2010 with constrictive bronchiolitis.

"I'm the father of three kids, and I struggled to get benefits," Torres said, though he added that he knows other soldiers who have it worse. "My good friend is on four liters of oxygen, 24 hours a day," Torres said.

Asked about his service in the Middle East, Torres immediately recalls his time in Iraq between 2007 and 2008 -- and the clouds of thick smoke and wind-blown powdery dust in which he trained. "It was just nasty, dirty," he said. "But we figured someone was looking out for us, so we just didn't think about it."
. The disease shares symptoms with asthma yet doesn't respond to asthma treatment -- or any treatments, for that matter. Severe cases require lung transplants.

oh and Iraqis do not appreciate us 'liberating" them folks here will tsk- imagine the civilian undiagnosed rate there!!!

[hack89]

34. Tobacco will ultimately kill many more veterans than any toxin

don't forget that only a very small fraction of military personal get anywhere near a combat zone. The vast majority work in support roles in a benign environment. What kills the typical veteran is the same stuff that kills the typical civilian.

I am a combat vet with 20 years of service. My father was a combat vet with 23 years service. My brother is a combat vet who served in the Gulf War.

[Bobbi5]

9. The government is "saving money"--why else?

[Blue Owl]

11. Where is War Whore Billy Kristol's outrage?

All I'm hearing is fuckin' crickets from the mongers...

[freshwest]

15. I found the warmonger:

[blkmusclmachine]

13. ,

,

[gerogie2]

16. Put disabled vets on medicare and the problem will be solved.

Having millions of vets waiting on a few doctors is a recipe for disaster.

[mountain grammy]

26. Yes, that is exactly the solution, 100% Medicare coverage for vets..

I have written to my representatives many times about this. Bring the VA under Medicare, NOW!

In fact, Medicare for everyone would solve a host of problems throughout America.

[Scuba]

21. Hey, the VA managers all had little yellow ribbons on their cars, so they did "support the troops".

[Gemini Cat]

24. ...that they bought from walmart

but hey, they're supporting the troops!

[Feral Child]

22. K&R n/t

[jeff47]

36. The problem isn't the VA.

The problem is the Republicans who have spent the last decade slashing the VA's budget while creating a lot more patients for the VA to handle.

[KansDem]

38. A lesson for the oligarchs: "Don't lie us into war if you're not going to care for our vets"

Savvy?

[rhett o rick]

45. Yeah maybe you can get Hallmark to make a card you can send them.

I'm sure they will respond. My frustration isnt aimed at you, but them.