(Arizona Supreme) Court: THC in driver's blood not enough to prove DUI
Source: Arizona Daily Star {Tucson}
PHOENIX Arizonans who smoke marijuana can't be charged with driving
while impaired absent actual evidence they are affected by the drug, the
Arizona Supreme Court ruled this morning.
The justices rejected arguments by the Maricopa County Attorney's Office
that a motorist whose blood contains the slight amount of a metabolite of
marijuana, can be presumed to be driving while impaired and therefore driving
illegally. They said the medical evidence shows that's not to be the case.
Today's ruling most immediately affects the more than 40,000 Arizonans who
are legal medical marijuana users. It means they will not be effectively banned
from driving, giving how long the metabolite, Carboxy-THC, remains in the blood.
It also provides protection against impaired driving charges for anyone else who
drives and has used marijuana in the last 30 days, including those who might be
visiting from Washington or Colorado, where recreational use of the drug is legal.
The case before the court involves a driver cited for a traffic violation who,
when given a blood test, was found to have Carboxy-THC in his system and
was charged with driving with an illegal drug or its metabolite in his body.
Read more: http://azstarnet.com/news/state-and-regional/court-thc-in-driver-s-blood-not-enough-to-prove/article_ab6b13fa-ca3f-11e3-9861-001a4bcf887a.html
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)K&R
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Sunlei
(22,651 posts)in their 'for profit' sweltering, tent prisons. Jailed for a longtime too, because of the stupid way marijuana is classed like heroin.
former9thward
(32,043 posts)1) this is a simple DUI. Jail time is one day in Maricopa.
2) Simple marijuana possession is not a jailable offense in AZ. Has not been for about 14 years.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)former9thward
(32,043 posts)WinstonSmith4740
(3,056 posts)Or they used to anyway...don't know if the laws have changed. A few years back I got stopped 2 miles from the Nevada line by an Arizona cop for the dark tint on my windows. Long story short, we had 1 joint on us. It ended up costing us over $750.00 by the time the Justice of the Peace in the little bum-fuck town we had to go to court in got done with us. Refused to throw it out, charged us with possession & paraphernalia (a roach clip). This was AFTER the public defender told us he was going to charge us for just the joint. Changed his mind, I guess.
Warpy
(111,300 posts)People who are totally trashed won't be able to pass it, they'll be giggling too much. It will also turn up exhausted drivers who need to be off the road for a 20 minute catnap, at the very least.
I drive in a state where I need to assume nearly half the other drivers are either blotto or texting. It's a good assumption and has kept me safe as they weave all over the road. I'm concerned with how other people are driving, not whether they've smoked a joint in the past month.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)My mother in law wouldn't have been able to pass, even though she was a very good driver.
former9thward
(32,043 posts)That is legal and can't be used against you. However if you do fail a field sobriety test evidence of a medical condition is an excuse.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)I smoked pot habitually for 20 years and quit about 25 years ago. Pot is much stronger now, but I had access to the best there was at the time. Unless I had also been drinking, I don't think pot affected my driving. 20 years of driving stoned, zero wrecks, zero tickets. Of course, since I was always high, I had a tolerance. I also was a guy whose mind was always racing when I wasn't stoned and pot calmed that down. I may have been a safer driver when I was high. I was surely a more patient driver when I was high.
This was the case for me. That isn't to imply that it would be the case of anyone else. I have always been a pretty safe driver. Coming up this year on 50 years of driving, one minor accident that was my fault and 2 speeding times (both ten miles over) is the extent of my driving record.
People who text and drive scare me.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)The only issue I might have is about the quality of the pot. The best stuff (cheeba) I ever had was in about 1970 and was grown in Columbia. I have never experienced any grow that was superior, and believe me, I have never stopped looking.
Growers have been working on this stuff for thousands of years, and did not need to be shown by some latter day hippies.
--imm
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)started smoking in the early sixties in San Diego, that pot was Mexican and had lots of seeds, but it was far more psychedelic than any I have had lately, same could be said for the Panama Red and some Columbian.
eggplant
(3,912 posts)...that people smoke to get high, they don't smoke to consume a specific amount. Sure, a joint of hydroponic bud these days is much stronger than one of Mexican brown from years ago, but that doesn't mean that you have to smoke the whole thing.
People get just as shitfaced on beer as whisky.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)It's not just a matter of potency. THC is many chemicals, including isomers that vary according to growing conditions. The "highs" we are discussing are qualitatively different.
--imm
eggplant
(3,912 posts)I was reacting to the generalized "stronger" moniker that modern weed gets tagged with -- this is less about this specific thread than all of the anti-weed arguments you hear all the time. (Sorry about that -- I didn't mean to tag you with that.)
A good friend vaporizes for helping with his MS and explained to me how the different cannabinoids vaporize at different temperatures, so you could effectively control the type of high you got - lower temps were more goofy giggly highs, and higher temps were more soporific. The cool thing was that you could vape at the lower temp all day and then *re-vape* the same weed at higher temps later when it is time to go to sleep.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
immoderate
(20,885 posts)We got some of that Panama Red, and also good Mexican; Oaxaca, Michoacan, and Acapulco. All made its way to New York.
And then there's Alaska, Hawaii, Jamaica, Thai... and that's just bud. Where's the hash?
I've had good smoke from the contiguous states, but none beat those on the list.
--imm
Back when I was 16 & immortal, I was the worst driver on the road, no booze, no pot, just plain youthful arrogance. I'm lucky I didn't kill someone.
sofa king
(10,857 posts)Please do not confuse me with one of those "you can't trust the cops" types. I do not trust them.
I, on the other hand, am a "you can't trust people type." You can trust me.
Decades ago, I saw the President of NORML and a couple of lawyers give a talk to a room full of college students about the then-current state of marijuana laws. All three of them agreed that one major (and, they felt, nearly insurmountable) problem with legalizing marijuana was that there was no reliable way to test for intoxication.
None of them felt that leaving that up to the police was a wise thing to do. This is simply because police are just as human and fallible in their decision making as everyone else, and results would necessarily vary when judging intoxication.
Instead, they invited the chemists in the audience to create a test which could reliably show recent use. The President of NORML described a saliva test which was reputedly in development... and it occurs to me that if one was patented way back then, the design might be open domain....
Gotta go.
WinstonSmith4740
(3,056 posts)My niece worked at a local casino about 5 years ago, and said they would do random saliva tests...it supposedly was accurate to 8 hours. She said they didn't care if you showed positive, as long as it was outside of the 8 hour time zone...in other words, just don't show up to work stoned. Can't really complain about that.
sofa king
(10,857 posts)I'll tell you, growing old(er) is reminding me more and more of like being Dr. Who. Wait around long enough, and you'll travel to a more technologically advanced time beyond the year 2000! (That turn of phrase once caught my rapt attention. Now it means "old and stodgy."
I totally concur about the use and purpose of the saliva test. I feel like it's pretty reasonable for many employers to demand un-high workers.
On the other hand, I think it should be mandatory for people in customer service positions. Imagine if everyone you had to interact with in a given day smiled and asked if you'd like a bite of their hot dog?
bob27
(40 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)rocktivity
(44,577 posts)You know how cops will claim they "smelled marijuana" after pulling someone over? Well, it's easy to tell which ones are telling the truth -- they'll have THC in their blood, too! Not as much as the occupants of the car, of course, who in turn wouldn't have as much as those in the car who were doing the actual smoking.
And remember that snowboarder who almost lost his Olympic medal because he had THC in his blood? He said it was from a contact high, which was believed because it was a trace amount.
I guess what is needed is a THC number that would allow the cops (and Olympic judges) to say, "It's more likely than not that you have consumed marijuana personally in the past XX hours." And of course, medical marijuana users would have their ID cards.
rocktivity
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)I took a test for the job I'm currently working. I smoked two giant bowls of Ruthless Ruth about 15 minutes before the test and came up totally clean.
Either they really wanted me bad on this job or the drug test was shite.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Indiana-still a dui. zero tolerance. metabolites mean dui per se. period. Unless of course, if you are rich enough to actually fight it.
How I hate being in a place that is redder and more back asswards than than Maricopa County, AZ
elias7
(4,016 posts)current testing cuts off at I think 50 ng/ml or some such concentration, which will pick up tracest of amounts from use weeks prior.
why not have the cut off at 500 ng/ml or whatever the appropriate value is so you could actually determine if someone is truly impaired?
Ptah
(33,032 posts)for a DUI if a blood test reveals the presence of active THC, the main psychoactive
ingredient in the plant, or the metabolite hydroxy THC, a compound broken down by
the body that's believed to retain an inebriating effect. The High Court emphasized in
its ruling that any "active" metabolite for any drug, not just marijuana, could still be
used by prosecutors as evidence of DUI.