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Freddie Stubbs

(29,853 posts)
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 11:38 AM Apr 2014

Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

Source: USA Today

Jews in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk where pro-Russian militants have taken over government buildings were told they have to "register" with the Ukrainians who are trying to make the city become part of Russia, according to Israeli media.

Jews emerging from a synagogue say they were handed leaflets that ordered the city's Jews to provide a list of property they own and pay a registration fee "or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportation and see their assets confiscated," reported Ynet News, Israel's largest news website.

Donetsk is the site of an "anti-terrorist" operation by the Ukraine government, which has moved military columns into the region to force out militants who are demanding a referendum be held on joining Russia.

The leaflets bore the name of Denis Pushilin, who identified himself as chairman of "Donetsk's temporary government," and were distributed near the Donetsk synagogue and other areas, according to the report.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/

115 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine (Original Post) Freddie Stubbs Apr 2014 OP
oh boy doesnt this sound familiar leftyohiolib Apr 2014 #1
Russia, going backward to the 4th century as fast as they can. anyone who trades roguevalley Apr 2014 #36
But, but, we've been told the Ukrainian govt is "fascist neo nazi". The Russians are for freedom!! 7962 Apr 2014 #84
''Always follow the money.'' ~Deep Throat DeSwiss Apr 2014 #44
The word "pogrom" comes to mind. Brigid Apr 2014 #99
OMG this is terrifying. Really terrifying. Happyhippychick Apr 2014 #2
Registration-- why is that bad ? warrant46 Apr 2014 #106
Read a little bit about WWII, then you'll know Happyhippychick Apr 2014 #107
Actually I took your advice warrant46 Apr 2014 #108
I wouldn't know, I have no patience for the NRA's "logic" Happyhippychick Apr 2014 #109
NRA logic doesn't exist is more appropos wordpix Apr 2014 #111
THIS is gonna end well derby378 Apr 2014 #3
Yep CFLDem Apr 2014 #30
hope I'm dead by then demigoddess Apr 2014 #64
Sounds like Russian propoganda, trying to equate Ukraine with Nazis davepc Apr 2014 #4
It's a pro-Russian group which did this Freddie Stubbs Apr 2014 #5
That makes sense davepc Apr 2014 #10
You've got that backwards. jeff47 Apr 2014 #33
I'd bet the opposite. MattSh Apr 2014 #15
+ 1 Botany Apr 2014 #9
Wait didn't Richard Engel okwmember Apr 2014 #6
I believe you are correct, which only demonstrates putin is talking out of two sides of his mouth lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #11
He's always demonstrated that Scairp Apr 2014 #52
true. one with shirt on, and one with shirt off... lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #82
Well, whatever Scairp Apr 2014 #90
LOL Good one. I don't think the person you responded to got it, but I did. nt okaawhatever Apr 2014 #91
Yes, I know, but its ok, we are all on the same page, thanks lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #97
it soon may be time to take s stand Supersedeas Apr 2014 #110
Mila Kunis always said there was a lot of anti-Semitism in her old country bluestateguy Apr 2014 #7
I'm sure my great-grandfather would agree villager Apr 2014 #12
So it is pretty obvious that Russia does not care if everyone knows about its anti-Semetic policies. lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #8
Holy smokes... Helen Borg Apr 2014 #13
Sounds like the backward time machine has been turned on. I hope the world is not going through this RKP5637 Apr 2014 #14
Terrifying. Wasn't to long ago when millions were exterminated in Ukraine. Sunlei Apr 2014 #16
And another Israeli source says the pro-Russian forces are denying it starroute Apr 2014 #17
Hell, I hate to say it, but that kind of thing reminds me of the CIA n/t arcane1 Apr 2014 #19
Agreed. No propagandist could hope for a more inspired reaction than the one on this thread. GoneFishin Apr 2014 #21
Thanks.. I thought I was the only one who was skeptical n/t progressivebydesign Apr 2014 #57
No, you are not the only one The Blue Flower Apr 2014 #62
Three unidentified men in balaclava masks carrying a flag of the Russian Federation? cabrona Apr 2014 #34
sounds a bit like those assbites with the card tables outside the Post Office. progressivebydesign Apr 2014 #56
Will Putin order pink triangles next? blm Apr 2014 #18
If true, makes Bibi look bad. He has been "making nice" with Putin. yellowcanine Apr 2014 #20
Or Putin, or both. bemildred Apr 2014 #27
Babies in incubators anyone? arikara Apr 2014 #22
Putin... penultimate Apr 2014 #28
the russians didn't need the nazi's to discriminate against Jews. Javaman Apr 2014 #23
Could be disinfo. cabrona Apr 2014 #24
I Just Heard John Kerry On NPR Saying That Jews Were Being Told To Register... WillyT Apr 2014 #26
The use of the passive voice is confusing. cabrona Apr 2014 #31
This is so laughable. I cringe at how desperate the State Department is Catherina Apr 2014 #66
Very good post. nt cabrona Apr 2014 #75
Somebody at the (gag) New Republic even is claiming it's a hoax m-lekktor Apr 2014 #78
Thanks. NCSJ says "It’s a fake flyer". Dumbest, most evil propaganda ever. Catherina Apr 2014 #87
+1000 Its not credible at all. cprise Apr 2014 #79
And pay us $50 (dollars!) cash. Reporters went to the reg room. It was empty Catherina Apr 2014 #88
Thank you, Catherina - great post. Raksha Apr 2014 #89
Thanks Raksha. I just updated Koko's thread with some information that might interest you Catherina Apr 2014 #94
My bet is on the Ukranian nationalists. nt snappyturtle Apr 2014 #38
Oh, the Ukrainian nationalists have definitely been in control in Donestk. amandabeech Apr 2014 #86
It's awful - but we don't know what it is MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #25
Indeed, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2014 #29
best post on this thread. n/t warrprayer Apr 2014 #32
but are YOU going to ignore this? elleng Apr 2014 #43
Kerry voted to invade Iraq because of WMDs. JackRiddler Apr 2014 #45
I'm not planning on taking direct action on it MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #47
Similarly situated, elleng Apr 2014 #50
I'm taking it *very* seriously MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #77
am I reading something wrong? progressivebydesign Apr 2014 #53
Whatever it was/is, elleng Apr 2014 #55
Kerry is being made the fool ... 1000words Apr 2014 #85
How many have heard of Babi Yar? tclambert Apr 2014 #35
Anatevka, Anatevka. Underfed, overworked Anatevka. onehandle Apr 2014 #37
Reading that made my blood run cold Marrah_G Apr 2014 #39
That was the intent. Make people's blood run cold enough Catherina Apr 2014 #68
Just the fact that people think like that is scary Marrah_G Apr 2014 #92
scary, soul chilling, terrifying really Catherina Apr 2014 #93
May well be a hoax Marrah_G Apr 2014 #98
Scary, very very scary!! lark Apr 2014 #40
I thought... DirtyDawg Apr 2014 #41
Kerry condemns this. elleng Apr 2014 #42
I know but ya'know some on the DU honestly Iliyah Apr 2014 #48
and in some respects we MAY be, elleng Apr 2014 #54
The fact that Kerry fell for a hoax is what is scary. former9thward Apr 2014 #102
Maybe falling for this hoax was easy becasue it goes with the agenda US has at the moment. LisaL Apr 2014 #104
It's not intolerable. It's not grotesque. Because it's a hoax. LisaL Apr 2014 #103
It IS intolerable, and it IS grotesque, elleng Apr 2014 #105
Lol! Israel refuses to support the US/EU position so this fakery is the best they can do? Catherina Apr 2014 #46
Kyiv Post are quoting same link as the OP : not internal Ukraine News. dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #63
Sick scam indeed but as effective as babies in incubators Catherina Apr 2014 #70
"Quagmire" is right. nt cabrona Apr 2014 #74
yes it's all an anti-Putin conspiracy. Putin is just an innocent, well meaning leader. Right? uhnope Apr 2014 #76
Putin responded to a US-backed fascist coup. richard3 Apr 2014 #113
What else does Putin want us to think? uhnope Apr 2014 #114
Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #115
This story is being pushed by the RW media here... progressivebydesign Apr 2014 #49
CIA psyops and disinformation cosmicone Apr 2014 #51
This is scary stuff lillypaddle Apr 2014 #58
Russia's activities in the Ukraine awoke_in_2003 Apr 2014 #59
Uh oh..... louis-t Apr 2014 #60
Ominous, no matter where it comes from. Using terrors from the past to push some agenda here. mountain grammy Apr 2014 #61
Welcome to 1930. And now we've got new tracking technology to make sure you don't escape this time! blkmusclmachine Apr 2014 #65
With the alleged presence of US mercenaries nyabingi Apr 2014 #67
Admits distributing but denies content... TeeYiYi Apr 2014 #69
ADL: "We are skeptical about the flier’s authenticity... condemn attempts to politicize antisemitism Catherina Apr 2014 #71
TNR: "Relax, Ukraine is Not Ordering Its Jews to Register" Catherina Apr 2014 #72
awful headline for this story Enrique Apr 2014 #73
This is just evil. David Zephyr Apr 2014 #80
This is terrorism whoever did it. applegrove Apr 2014 #81
So much speculation: sounds sketchy at best. YOHABLO Apr 2014 #83
Its a scam in bad taste - background information at this link : dipsydoodle Apr 2014 #95
Haaretz - Flier calling on Donetsk Jews to register now widely seen as fake jakeXT Apr 2014 #96
My stomach did a roll over Scruffy Rumbler Apr 2014 #100
Ukraine's Chief Rabbi: "Antisemitic flyer 'by Donetsk People's Republic' in Ukraine a hoax" Catherina Apr 2014 #101
Hmmm, this reminds me of something, what is it? Beacool Apr 2014 #112

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
36. Russia, going backward to the 4th century as fast as they can. anyone who trades
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:31 PM
Apr 2014

with or goes there is going to abet another holocaust.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
84. But, but, we've been told the Ukrainian govt is "fascist neo nazi". The Russians are for freedom!!
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 09:06 PM
Apr 2014

Putin was trying to PROTECT the citizens from the evil doings of the US and CIA. Right?

warrant46

(2,205 posts)
108. Actually I took your advice
Tue Apr 22, 2014, 07:10 PM
Apr 2014

Registration of Jews led the Nazis to the homes of Jews who were rounded up and sent off to labor

Doesn't the NRA use the same logic to the government registering guns?

 

CFLDem

(2,083 posts)
30. Yep
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:12 PM
Apr 2014

Hopefully when the time comes, we will be led by Churchill and not Chamberlain.

(Not a comment on any current leader or individual).

demigoddess

(6,644 posts)
64. hope I'm dead by then
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:18 PM
Apr 2014

My aunt said right before the Iraq/Afghanistan war started "haven't we had enough wars?" and then she died before it ended. Oh right, it still hasn't ended. So I hope I'm dead before there is a WWIII

davepc

(3,936 posts)
4. Sounds like Russian propoganda, trying to equate Ukraine with Nazis
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 11:47 AM
Apr 2014

Kind of an ugly way to use history, but this whole situation is ugly.

davepc

(3,936 posts)
10. That makes sense
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 11:52 AM
Apr 2014

There are enough neo-nazi elements that participated in the February revolution. If I was a Russian SVR agent trying to stir up dissent against the Ukrainian government, equating that government with Nazis is something I would do. What better way to do that then create parallels (weather its true or not) between the Ukrainian government and Hitler.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
33. You've got that backwards.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:22 PM
Apr 2014

The flyer was passed around in the areas that are claiming they want to rejoin Russia. Not the parts controlled by the Ukrainian government.

MattSh

(3,714 posts)
15. I'd bet the opposite.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:05 PM
Apr 2014

Of course, it "might" be possible that pro-Russian groups are trying to scare a whole lot of people away from a pro-Russian stance to take up a pro-Ukrainian stance. Hey, it could happen!

Always remember that in war (either a hot or cold one) the first casualty is the truth.

okwmember

(345 posts)
6. Wait didn't Richard Engel
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 11:48 AM
Apr 2014

say on Rachel last night that Putin's propaganda inside Russia is that the new Ukranian leaders are nazis? That's gonna be a real hard sell if the Russian loyalists in the Ukraine are registering Jews.

Scairp

(2,749 posts)
52. He's always demonstrated that
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:27 PM
Apr 2014

He is a thug and says whatever he believes he needs to say to justify his illegal actions, just like when he ran the KGB. This guy is our Stalin for the 21st century. Stalin fought Germany too, but then persecuted Jews.

Supersedeas

(20,630 posts)
110. it soon may be time to take s stand
Thu Apr 24, 2014, 09:30 AM
Apr 2014

As Eric Holder indicated, are we a Nation of Cowards when it comes to race and ethnic discrimination.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
14. Sounds like the backward time machine has been turned on. I hope the world is not going through this
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:04 PM
Apr 2014

shit again.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
16. Terrifying. Wasn't to long ago when millions were exterminated in Ukraine.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:05 PM
Apr 2014

"Jews of the city of Kiev and vicinity! On Monday, September 29, you are to appear by 08:00 a.m. with your possessions, money, documents, valuables, and warm clothing at Dorogozhitskaya Street, next to the Jewish cemetery. Failure to appear is punishable by death.”


—Order posted in Kiev in Russian and Ukrainian on or around September 26, 1941.

ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Ukraine

Victims
3,000,000 Ukrainians & non-Jews
850,000 - 900,000 Jews

starroute

(12,977 posts)
17. And another Israeli source says the pro-Russian forces are denying it
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:06 PM
Apr 2014

What's that line about a lie flying three times around the world before the truth can get its pants on? It would be nice if we didn't get these long, outraged threads on the basis of a single report before anyone has established the facts. I wouldn't put anything past anybody in that region at this point -- but it would be really dumb for the separatists to pull something like this, and that alone makes the story kind of fishy.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-russians-in-donetsk-deny-calling-for-jews-to-register/

Pro-Russian separatists from Donetsk in eastern Ukraine denied any involvement in the circulation of flyers calling on Jews to register with separatists and pay special taxes. . . .

The flyers were official-looking documents that carried what was presented as Pushilin’s signature, but the news site tvrain.ru on Wednesday quoted Pushilin as denying any connection to the flyers, calling them a provocation. . . .

On Tuesday, the news website novosti.dn.ua reported that the flyers were handed out that day by three unidentified men in balaclava masks carrying a flag of the Russian Federation.

According to the report, the men distributed the flyers next to a local synagogue. The website quoted unnamed sources from the local Jewish community as saying that the flyers were an attempt to provoke a conflict and blame the attack on the separatists.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
21. Agreed. No propagandist could hope for a more inspired reaction than the one on this thread.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:35 PM
Apr 2014

There is also the transparent and easily predicted frame-up backlash effect, such that the apparent bad actors will not benefit from, but rather be tremendously hurt by their "deed".

Smells fishy to me.

 

cabrona

(47 posts)
34. Three unidentified men in balaclava masks carrying a flag of the Russian Federation?
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:25 PM
Apr 2014

That's who handed out the leaflets? That could be anyone.

progressivebydesign

(19,458 posts)
56. sounds a bit like those assbites with the card tables outside the Post Office.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:31 PM
Apr 2014

the ones with photos of various president's as hitler... It's taken all my reserve not to destroy their table.

Reading the report you shared.. it sounds much more probable than what was hysterically shared on the right wing media today.

Javaman

(62,534 posts)
23. the russians didn't need the nazi's to discriminate against Jews.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 12:51 PM
Apr 2014

sounds like the start of a new round of pogroms.

 

cabrona

(47 posts)
24. Could be disinfo.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:00 PM
Apr 2014

From the article:

The leaflets bore the name of Denis Pushilin, who identified himself as chairman of "Donetsk's temporary government," and were distributed near the Donetsk synagogue and other areas, according to the report.

Pushilin acknowledged that flyers were distributed under his organization's name in Donetsk, but denied any connection to them, Ynet reported.


The leaflet may be an artifact of Ukrainian nationalists, who include anti-semitic fascist elements, seeking to discredit the ethnic Russian insurgents.
 

cabrona

(47 posts)
31. The use of the passive voice is confusing.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:18 PM
Apr 2014

The article also says that Jews "were told" to do this. What is not clear is who told them.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
66. This is so laughable. I cringe at how desperate the State Department is
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:22 PM
Apr 2014

The flyer doesn't even make any sense

The notice explained the measure as being due to the alleged support of Jewish leaders for the "nationalist junta of Stepan Bandera in Kiev" and their hostility "to the Orthodox Donetsk republic and its citizens."

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.585897


Seriously? Only the deranged minds of illiterate neonazi freaks would even warp into that bizarre conspiracy angle but it makes for great propaganda and scaremongering. Everyone except neonazi conspiracy freaks knows that Jewish leaders in no way supported that Jew-killing swine Stepan Bandera the National Hero of the Ukrainian rightwing who was being honored at the rally our neocon McCain addresses. Jews were fighting Bandera and his butchers with every breath in their bodies.

The source of this story is Novosti Donbassa, Yatsenyuk's mouthpiece.

When neocons need people to support wars under a Republican presidency, they scream about right-to-life babies being thrown out of incubators.

When neolibs need people to support wars under a Democratic presidency, they scream about minorities, in this case Gays and Jews. And when Israel won't get on board with our latest warmongering out come the big propaganda guns like this pathetic piece.

Brilliant. This is how we get 60 years of uninterrupted wars, a bloated military budget and a political stranglehold by the 1% on elections. Just switch the targets as rapidly as you can but keep exploiting people's emotions. Tempo tempo for war drums.

The least we could do is not act to surprised at how easily we're had, over and over again.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
87. Thanks. NCSJ says "It’s a fake flyer". Dumbest, most evil propaganda ever.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 10:15 PM
Apr 2014
A flyer demanding that Jews in the Ukrainian city of Donetsk register with its pro-Russian government is “fake,” a Jewish advocacy group with direct contacts in the region tells the Daily Dot.

“It’s a fake flyer,” says Lesley Weiss, deputy director of the National Conference Supporting Jews (NCSJ), which focuses its efforts on Russia, Ukraine, and the Baltic States.

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/ukraine-jewish-registry-fake/

cprise

(8,445 posts)
79. +1000 Its not credible at all.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 05:59 PM
Apr 2014

Why would an official advertise for a formal procedure and then immediately deny its existence? If the goal was actually to register Jews then officials wouldn't try to undermine their own message.

It reeks of a smear campaign.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
88. And pay us $50 (dollars!) cash. Reporters went to the reg room. It was empty
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 10:25 PM
Apr 2014
This afternoon I went to see who was collecting the “Jewish fee” in room 514 at the seized administration. The office was empty.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/17/jews-in-east-ukraine-are-being-threatened-but-by-whom.html


50 US dollars. Nice slip up there guys. I'm sure Brennan meant for you to convert that to local currency before printing up the flyers.

The leaflets ordered Jews to register at Room 514 in the building used as the headquarters to pay $50 each, or “the guilty ones would be deprived of their citizenship and deported outside the republic and their property confiscated.”

They blurred over recent history, saying that the “leaders of the Jewish community of Ukraine supported the Bandera Junta,” the group’s name for the new Ukrainian government and a reference to the legendary Ukrainian nationalist leader Stepan Bandera. The fliers were handed out Wednesday. Identical ones were slipped under car windshield wipers on nearby streets. All was quiet on Thursday around the synagogue, a modest brick building with bas-relief menorahs on the double entryway doors.

Mr. Maltsev, the spokesman, said Mr. Pushilin had not written, signed or approved any text demanding that Jewish residents register. “How could he do such a thing?” Mr. Maltsev said. “He understands that many different kinds of people live here.”

Room 514 was empty on Thursday, and militants milling about the building said that no one ever intended to set up a registry for Jews there.

Instead, Stanislav Shumaiko, a protester in the building, said the fliers were clearly the work of the government in Kiev and intended to discredit the Donetsk Republic. “We are laughing; this is propaganda,” he said.

...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/world/europe/efforts-to-register-jews-in-ukraine-are-denounced-and-denied.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
89. Thank you, Catherina - great post.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 10:32 PM
Apr 2014

I also feel vindicated, since you clearly knew about Stepan Bandera before you read the flyer, and I didn't.

Re Only the deranged minds of illiterate neonazi freaks would even warp into that bizarre conspiracy angle but it makes for great propaganda and scaremongering. Everyone except neonazi conspiracy freaks knows that Jewish leaders in no way supported that Jew-killing swine Stepan Bandera the National Hero of the Ukrainian rightwing who was being honored at the rally our neocon McCain addresses. Jews were fighting Bandera and his butchers with every breath in their bodies.

I had never heard the name before, and the first article I read had only a few sentences in the way of background. So I could not speak with the same authority that you did when I needed to. But just knowing he was a WWII Nazi collaborator who was responsible for the murder of thousands of Jews and Poles in pursuit of an "ethnically pure" Ukraine was enough to tell me there was NO WAY the Ukrainian Jews could have supported the fascists who consider him a hero.

Even if I didn't know of Bandera's reputation...THEY DID!

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
94. Thanks Raksha. I just updated Koko's thread with some information that might interest you
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 04:04 AM
Apr 2014

Koko's thread in GD: "Ukraine Is Not Ordering Its Jews to Register"

I spent several hours looking into this and made several posts. My last post, Letter from NCSJ. Also there are 3 similar leaflets, has me boiling mad.

Time Magazine reported that this is "Either a Hoax or a Crude Extortion Scheme".

And Bandera, just so you have a little more information, whenever you see those red and black flags in Kiev like in this picture when the neonazis were besieging the Parliament for the coup, those are Bandera flags.



A sick quote from Kiev’s newly-appointed deputy head of south-eastern Ukraine


“This scum should be given promises, guarantees, and any concessions…And hung…They should be hung later,” Filatov, a lawyer and a businessman, wrote on his Facebook page commenting on events in Crimea. He did not clarify who exactly he classifies as “scum.”

The post – particularly its part on “hang them later” – drew wide media attention. Filatov was quick to note though that he was writing “not as an official.”

...

“I am proud of Bandera. He is my Hero. Particularly, as I see that people are ready to die under red-and-black flags,” Filatov stated.

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-dnepropetrovsk-crimea-protest-458/

They go out of their way to honor Bandera every chance they get, proudly waving that flag of Nazi collaboration and when it's banned by FIFA as a racist symbol, here's how they tried to get around that



in Ukraine today, it is equally misleading to state that the nationalist right represents a “minor segment” of the current protests. The protest leadership (to the extent that it exists) consists of three opposition parties in parliament – one of which, the Svoboda party, is clearly on the far right. Svoboda, which captured 38 seats and 10 percent of the vote in the last parliamentary elections, until 2004 called itself the Social Nationalist Party of Ukraine and employed neo-Nazi and SS symbols. While the party changed its name and symbols in 2004, Svoboda’s leader, Oleh Tyahnybok, continued to argue that the opposition should fight the “Muscovite-Jewish mafia running Ukraine” and praised the Ukrainian Insurgency Army (UPA) in World War II for fighting “against the Moskali (Muscovites), Germans, Zhydy (Jews) and other scum, who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state.” The party does not hide its glorification of the interwar fascist movement, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN). In December they held a torchlight rally on the Maidan to honor the OUN leader, Stepan Bandera, and they regularly fly the red and black flag of the OUN, which has been banned as a racist symbol at soccer matches by FIFA.

The explicit harkening back to the songs, slogans, and symbols of the nationalist movement of the 1930s and 1940s — with its aspiration to achieve an ethnically pure Ukrainian nation-state free of Russians, Jews, and Poles — has been one of the most significant differences between these protests and the Orange Revolution of 2004. The right-wing groups have been particularly active among the organization of the protest movement on the ground, particularly as the number of protesters has dwindled over time and revealed a resilient right-wing core. Svoboda’s deputies control the opposition-occupied Kiev city administration building, its flag is widely visible and a portrait of Bandera hangs in the central hall.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/02/12/who-are-the-protesters-in-ukraine/


Charming eh?
 

amandabeech

(9,893 posts)
86. Oh, the Ukrainian nationalists have definitely been in control in Donestk.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 10:03 PM
Apr 2014

That's the part of Ukraine that has declared its independence and wants to become part of Russia.

Clearly, its the Ukrainian nationalists.

In June of '42 you'd have been screaming "Second Front Now!".

elleng

(131,084 posts)
43. but are YOU going to ignore this?
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:59 PM
Apr 2014

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said on Thursday that Jews in a city in eastern Ukraine had been ordered to register with the authorities, calling the idea intolerable.

"Just in the last couple of days, notices were sent to Jews in one city indicating that they had to identify themselves as Jews ... or suffer the consequences," Kerry told reporters. "This is not just intolerable, it's grotesque."

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2014/04/17/world/europe/17reuters-ukraine-crisis-kerry-jews.html?hp

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
45. Kerry voted to invade Iraq because of WMDs.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:07 PM
Apr 2014

His track record with panic stories is bad. Show some patience until there are actual confirmations about what happened and why.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
47. I'm not planning on taking direct action on it
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:19 PM
Apr 2014

Although it has made me think of some general things I should consider. My senators will do the right things at the national level (Warren/Markey), my congressman probably will too. (Kennedy)

Do you have a suggestion? I mean that as a question, not facetiously.

elleng

(131,084 posts)
50. Similarly situated,
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:25 PM
Apr 2014

as to my representatives. I'll assure myself that they're paying attention and doing the right thing.

I'm concerned about the 'doubters' here, and can only imagine what was going on in Europe 60+ years ago, so I 'vote' for vigilance.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
77. I'm taking it *very* seriously
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 04:53 PM
Apr 2014

I number of years ago, I made a little study of how Nazi Germany came to be. It convinced me that what happened there could easily enough happen again anywhere - even here.

But in this case, there are many bad actors and many shadowy actors, so it's unclear as to what's really happening.

progressivebydesign

(19,458 posts)
53. am I reading something wrong?
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:27 PM
Apr 2014

The latest news I'm reading is that they were flyers handed out as people left the synagogue, and no one has claimed responsibility for them yet. Someone was behind it, but it's not clear yet from reading all the stories now, if it was an official move, or something done to make someone else look like nazis.

tclambert

(11,087 posts)
35. How many have heard of Babi Yar?
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:26 PM
Apr 2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_Yar

In a nutshell, the Nazis executed 100,000 to 150,000 Jews and others in a ravine called Babi Yar in the Ukrainian capital city, Kiev. No fancy gas chambers or ovens. They just shot them, and buried them in the ravine.

The first line of Yevgeny Yevtushenko's famous poem says, "Over Babi Yar, there are no monuments." For long years that was true. The Soviet attitude toward Jews made efforts to put up a memorial impossible. It wasn't until the breakup of the Soviet Union that the first memorial went up.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
68. That was the intent. Make people's blood run cold enough
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:36 PM
Apr 2014

to support more war.

This mysterious pamphlet doesn't even make any sense and it comes suspiciously on the heels of our anger at Israel for refusing to support our little adventure against Russia as the US and EU play political ball with neonazis in Ukraine.

Israel refuses to get dragged into our "quagmire" (their words), refuses to back down on what a bunch of neonazis are in the Ukranian putsch government and suddenly appears this mysterious pamphlet. And all this after the Tatar card failed and after Ukrainian troops refused to shoot at civilians in East Ukraine (they're all getting courtmartialed now).

Babies in the incubators. Again sadly.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
92. Just the fact that people think like that is scary
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 02:14 AM
Apr 2014

Like the neonazi movement growing in greece. It's shocking.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
93. scary, soul chilling, terrifying really
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 03:23 AM
Apr 2014

I'm resigning myself to a year of depression if things keep going the way they are, from bad to worse every day.

Please see Koko's thread in GD: "Ukraine Is Not Ordering Its Jews to Register"

I spent several hours looking into this and made several posts. My last post, Letter from NCSJ. Also there are 3 similar leaflets, has me boiling mad.

Time Magazine reported that this is "Either a Hoax or a Crude Extortion Scheme".

Shame on whoever is behind this.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
98. May well be a hoax
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 09:13 AM
Apr 2014

But there has been a rise in anti-semitism in that part of the world....or at least they are becoming more open about it. Much like racism here in America.

elleng

(131,084 posts)
42. Kerry condemns this.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 01:57 PM
Apr 2014

'U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said on Thursday that Jews in a city in eastern Ukraine had been ordered to register with the authorities, calling the idea intolerable.

"Just in the last couple of days, notices were sent to Jews in one city indicating that they had to identify themselves as Jews ... or suffer the consequences," Kerry told reporters. "This is not just intolerable, it's grotesque."'

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2014/04/17/world/europe/17reuters-ukraine-crisis-kerry-jews.html?hp

LisaL

(44,974 posts)
103. It's not intolerable. It's not grotesque. Because it's a hoax.
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 08:39 PM
Apr 2014

Jews have not been ordered to register.

elleng

(131,084 posts)
105. It IS intolerable, and it IS grotesque,
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 08:56 PM
Apr 2014

whether or not ordered by the current 'regime.' There is and has been historic antisemitism in Europe (among other places,) and to ignore it, in any form and by whomever, would be intolerable.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
46. Lol! Israel refuses to support the US/EU position so this fakery is the best they can do?
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:10 PM
Apr 2014

There's been almost total silence from US politicians and the US Media over Israel's decision to abstain from voting at the UN in the vote to condemn Russia's annexation of the Crimea. Even before the UN sessions, Israel was refusing to get on board and, despite immense pressure, only issued a statement that they hoped things would be resolved peacefully.

Israel was very clear. They ""do not understand this point of view, which calls for Israel to be dragged into this quagmire". and wouldn't even attend the two UN meetings to condemn Russia. They're not going to sacrifice good relations they've had with Russia for people who are supporting Svoboda, who the World Jewish Congress wanted banned because they are neo-Nazis, but who, thanks to US & EU help, now have the Vice Prime Minister of Ukraine. When was the last time we saw ultranationalists neonazis with so many major positions in a European government? Israel remembers all too well. This little propaganda ploy, a flyer distributed by 3 unidentified men, is too ludicrously transparent for words. All it's missing are pictures little babies in incubators in the header and footer.


U.S. officials angry: Israel doesn’t back stance on Russia

13.04.14

White House and State Department officials in Washington have built up a great deal of anger over Jerusalem's "neutrality" regarding Russia's invasion of the Crimean Peninsula. Senior figures in the Obama administration have expressed great disappointment with the lack of support from Israel for the American position on the Ukraine crisis and with the fact that the Israeli government puts its relations...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.585333


This despite all the pressure the US has been putting on Israel.

Under U.S. pressure, Israel issues first statement on Ukraine crisis
Terse statement, which precedes Lieberman-Kerry meeting in Rome, is careful not to insult Russia or President Vladimir Putin.
05.03.14

After pressure from the United States government, the Israeli government issued its first official statement on the crisis in Ukraine Wednesday night. In its laconic statement, Israel did not comment on the Russian invasion into Crimea but only underscored that it hopes the crisis will be solved peacefully.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.578197#



Less than two year ago the Israeli government was complaining to Kiev about the rise of Svoboda and other neonazi elements. No sense expecting Israel to be too pleased about having bona fide "88" lapel pin wearers occupying important posts in a European government. For our government to now whine about Israel not supporting us in the UN is beyond pitiful.

Israel skipped out on both UN meetings to condemn Russia.

US angry with Israel's 'neutrality' over Ukrainian crisis
13 April 2014

US officials expressed anger over Israel's policy of "non-interference" with the Russian annexation of the Crimea; Israel's Haaretz newspaper reported.

A US official told the paper that the White House was disappointed with Israel's absence from the UN General Assembly meeting two weeks ago to vote on condemning Russia's military invasion of the Crimea and call to maintain Ukraine's territorial integrity.

"We have been consulting closely on Ukraine not only with our partners and allies around the world. Obviously we are looking to the entire international community to condemn Russia's actions and to support Ukraine, so we were surprised to see that Israel did not join the large majority of countries that voted to support Ukraine's territorial integrity at the United Nations. Israel's justification that it did not attend the meeting due to the Foreign Ministry strike is unacceptable" said the senior US official.

The US official said that Washington is particularly angry with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman's failure to publically support the US position on the crisis.

According to Haaretz the US is especially disappointed with FM Lieberman who equated Israel's relations with the United States to its relations with Russia. Lieberman is reported to have told Channel 9 that Israel has "good and trusting relations with the Americans and the Russians, and our experience has been very positive with both sides". The official said "I do not understand this point of view, which calls for Israel to be dragged into this quagmire".

...

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/americas/10861-us-angry-with-israels-neutrality-over-ukrainian-crisis


Israel is very wise not to get involved and jeopardize its good relations with Russia. The rest who are salivating for war, well "Beat those war drums!" Israel won't be joining in. It knows exactly what this shit is.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
63. Kyiv Post are quoting same link as the OP : not internal Ukraine News.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:11 PM
Apr 2014

So - I'd say this is a sick scam by persons unknown.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
70. Sick scam indeed but as effective as babies in incubators
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:45 PM
Apr 2014

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Less jobs! Less social services! More war!

What a merry little globalized party they're all having eh?

Women in burkas! Babies in incubators! Gays! Jews!

What next?

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
76. yes it's all an anti-Putin conspiracy. Putin is just an innocent, well meaning leader. Right?
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 04:48 PM
Apr 2014

Give us a break. Putin started this conflict and he's responsible for this shit.

 

richard3

(11 posts)
113. Putin responded to a US-backed fascist coup.
Thu Apr 24, 2014, 02:41 PM
Apr 2014

The Ukrainian fascist Right Sector is responsible for what you so delicately call "this shit."

Response to uhnope (Reply #114)

progressivebydesign

(19,458 posts)
49. This story is being pushed by the RW media here...
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:25 PM
Apr 2014

as a way to prove that the President is not doing enough.

BUT... in all the articles I'm reading, I have yet to find anything that substantiates that this is some official effort to register Jewish people there. It could very well be the same things as the instances in GOP State groups where some idiot leader faxes something offensive to everyone, or does something like the infamous "attacks" on Bush supporters, that turned out to be fake and blamed on liberals.

The fact that Herman Cain and others are salivating and pushing this story without any real background on this, makes me suspicious that this is NOT some official movement to do this. Sounds like more of a scare tactic by some faction of extremists, or the fact that they put the name of the Chairman on them, means that it could have been done solely to scare people and make someone look bad.

I'm not gong to jump on the OMG bandwagon yet, until it's sorted out.

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
51. CIA psyops and disinformation
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 02:26 PM
Apr 2014

There is no requirement for jews to "register" in Russia so why would a pro-Russia movement want it?

Secondly, the jews have been at the forefront of supporting Russia because they fear the Svoboda thugs far more than the Russians.

This news doesn't pass the smell test and it was carried out to inflame Jews and the world. Just yeasterday, the state department was whining about Israel not supporting the US over Ukraine. Now this. mmmmmmm hmmmmmm. Right.

mountain grammy

(26,647 posts)
61. Ominous, no matter where it comes from. Using terrors from the past to push some agenda here.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:09 PM
Apr 2014

As Kerry said "this is not only intolerable but grotesque."

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
67. With the alleged presence of US mercenaries
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:26 PM
Apr 2014

from Greystone present in eastern cities and with the onset of Kiev's military offensive against eastern separatists, you all need to keep in mind that the pro-Russian citizens of Ukraine are now going to be the targets of heinous propaganda and smear tactics aimed at discrediting their aspirations, including the mysterious appearance of these anti-Jewish pamphlets. The fact that John Kerry has jumped all over this (labeling it "grotesque&quot should raise the suspicions of anyone following developments in that country.

In a crisis in which the propaganda has been particularly heavy, and in view of the fact that widely-recognized anti-Semitic political parties are participating in the post-coup government in Kiev (and this has been one of the complaints of eastern Ukrainians), I would doubt the authenticity of these pamphlets until the group allegedly responsible steps forward to lay claim to it.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
69. Admits distributing but denies content...
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:45 PM
Apr 2014
In a response to a request by a Ukrainian Jewish website, Pushilin, the interim government's regional chairman, confirmed that the flyers were distributed by his organization, but denied any connection to the leaflet's content.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4510688,00.html

re: "I would doubt the authenticity of these pamphlets until the group allegedly responsible steps forward to lay claim to it."

TYY

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
71. ADL: "We are skeptical about the flier’s authenticity... condemn attempts to politicize antisemitism
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:58 PM
Apr 2014
in a statement sent to Mashable on Thursday afternoon, the Anti-Defamation League questioned its authenticity, while condemning the "cynical" messaging it contained.

"The ADL today condemned the appearance of anti-Semitic fliers in Donetsk, Ukraine, and called on all parties involved in the political conflicts in Ukraine to refrain from 'cynical and politically manipulative' exploitation of anti-Semitism," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director.

"We are skeptical about the flier’s authenticity, but the instructions clearly recall the Nazi era and have the effect of intimidating the local Jewish community," he said.

“We have seen a series of cynical and politically manipulative uses and accusations of anti-Semitism in Ukraine over the past year,” said Mr. Foxman. “The perpetrators and their targets are opposing politicians and political movements, but the true victims are the Jewish communities. We strongly condemn the anti-Semitic content, but also all attempts to use anti-Semitism for political purposes.”

...

http://mashable.com/2014/04/17/pamphlets-jews-register-ukraine/



Catherina

(35,568 posts)
72. TNR: "Relax, Ukraine is Not Ordering Its Jews to Register"
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:59 PM
Apr 2014

Relax, Ukraine is Not Ordering Its Jews to Register


Today, the Western press caught up with the Ukrainian rumor mill: apparently, the People's Republic of Donetsk had ordered all Jews over the age of 16 to pay a fee of $50 U.S. and register with the new "authorities," or face loss of citizenship or expulsion. This was laid out in officious-looking fliers pasted on the local synagogue. One local snapped a photo of the fliers and sent it to a friend in Israel, who then took it to the Israeli press and, voila, an international scandal: American Twitter is abuzz with it, Drudge is hawking it, and, today in Geneva, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry slammed the fliers as "grotesque."

The Donetsk Jewish community dismissed this as "a provocation," which it clearly is. "It's an obvious provocation designed to get this exact response, going all the way up to Kerry," says Fyodr Lukyanov, editor of Russia in Global Affairs. "I have no doubt that there is a sizeable community of anti-Semites on both sides of the barricades, but for one of them to do something this stupid—this is done to compromise the pro-Russian groups in the east."

Why? The Russian government has been playing up the (real but small) role of fascists and neo-Nazis in the victory of the EuroMaidan in Kiev. The Ukrainian government, utterly powerless to fight off the Russians and their local stooges, have had to rely on other methods, like leaking taped phone calls of allegedly local separatists getting their commands from Moscow. This may be just another tactic to smear the so-called anti-Maidan in the east of Ukraine: you think we're fascists? Well, take a look at these guys.

...

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117415/relax-ukraine-not-ordering-its-jews-register

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
73. awful headline for this story
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 04:35 PM
Apr 2014

It clearly suggests that this was an official action.

if I go out tomorrow and hand out such a pamphlet, would it be "Jews ordered to register in United States"?

David Zephyr

(22,785 posts)
80. This is just evil.
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 06:29 PM
Apr 2014

Whether it was a "prank" or not, it is way beyond vile. Those leaflets are pure evil wrapped up in hateful cruelty.

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
96. Haaretz - Flier calling on Donetsk Jews to register now widely seen as fake
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 08:45 AM
Apr 2014

The pro-Russian separatist leader of Donetsk, whose alleged signature is on the now notorious fliers calling on the eastern Ukrainian city's Jews to register on pain of deportation, said the documents were fakes, the ThinkProgress website reported Thursday.

“Some idiots yesterday were giving out these fliers in targeted areas,” said Denis Pushlin, head of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk, whose forces have taken over Ukrainian government buildings in the city. Pushlin said he didn't sign the documents and the People's Republic, whose name is stamped on the fliers, didn't produce them.

Meanwhile, the Anti-Defamation League said it was "skeptical about the … authenticity" of the fliers, which have been widely reported and accepted as authentic, including by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, who denounced them as "grotesque."

Also, Julia Ioffe, who covers Russia for The New Republic, wrote: "The Donetsk Jewish community dismissed [the fliers] as 'a provocation,' which it clearly is. 'It's an obvious provocation designed to get this exact response, going all the way up to Kerry,' says Fyodr Lukyanov, editor of Russia in Global Affairs. 'I have no doubt that there is a sizeable community of anti-Semites on both sides of the barricades, but for one of them to do something this stupid — this is done to compromise the pro-Russian groups in the east.'"

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/.premium-1.586174

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
101. Ukraine's Chief Rabbi: "Antisemitic flyer 'by Donetsk People's Republic' in Ukraine a hoax"
Fri Apr 18, 2014, 06:51 PM
Apr 2014
Antisemitic flyer 'by Donetsk People's Republic' in Ukraine a hoax

City's chief rabbi states pamphlet is fake, claiming it is meant to discredit pro-Russian protesters or Jewish community

Alec Luhn in Donetsk
The Guardian, Friday 18 April 2014 16.18 BST


The barricades outside the Donetsk regional administration building are plastered with anti-fascist posters. Photograph: Scott Olson/Getty Images

...

US secretary of state John Kerry soon waded into the media storm over the piece of paper, describing it as "grotesque" and "beyond unacceptable". But on Friday the chairman of the Donetsk People's Republic and the city's chief rabbi both stated that the flyer was a fake meant to discredit the so-called republic or the Jewish community.

...

"I think it's someone trying to use the Jewish community in Donetsk as an instrument in this conflict. That's why we're upset," the chief rabbi, Pinchas Vishedski, told journalists on Friday.

According to Jewish community members at Donetsk's only synagogue, which was founded 110 years ago, three masked men walked up to worshippers standing on the street after a Passover service on Wednesday and tried to distribute the flyers. They wore no insignia and quickly left when asked to identify themselves.

...

When seen by the Guardian on Friday, several aspects of the document immediately called into question its legitimacy. Pushilin is officially the chairman of the temporary government and has avoided being labelled its governor or leader. Also, the Donetsk People's Republic stamp shown there is poor quality and a different size than normally used, and the order is not signed.

...

"We were alarmed but now things have calmed down," said worshipper Ari Schwartz.

...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/18/antisemitic-donetsk-peoples-republic-ukraine-hoax
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