Philadelphia Boy, Two, Fatally Shoots 11-Year-Old Sister: Police

[elleng]

Source: nyt/reuters

PHILADELPHIA — A 2-year-old boy has fatally shot his 11-year-old sister after finding a gun in their home, Philadelphia police said on Monday.

Investigators believe a male friend of the children's mother left the gun on top of a refrigerator in the family's home in the Mantua neighborhood on the city's west side, but it was moved to a bedroom where four siblings were playing on Saturday morning.

The children located the gun, which was loaded and cocked, when their mother left the room to use the bathroom. Police say the 2-year old picked up the gun and aimed it at his sister when it discharged.

The bullet struck the victim, identified as Jamara Stevens, in the arm and traveled to her chest. Police did not identify the shooter or the other two children, who local media described as a 14-year-old boy and a 7-year-old girl.

Police transported Stevens to Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, where she died.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2014/04/07/us/07reuters-usa-philadelphia-childshooting.html?hp

---

Posting as a 'public service.'

[pscot]

1. What mysterious agency moved the gun?

Some weak minded persons might think this proves that guns are inherently dangerous. I mean there aren't many ways a 2-year-old could kill another person.

[yeoman6987]

2. Yieks

Police did not identify the shooter or the other two children



Police did not identify the shooter....hard to believe they are talking about a 2-year old.

[Happyhippychick]

30. Absolutely! I had the same reaction, the 2 year old is a victim too. He'll have to live with this

For the rest of his life.

[IronGate]

3. What kind of a fucking idiot doesn't secure a gun

with 4 children in the house? And leaves it loaded and cocked?
Someone in charge needs to be arrested and prosecuted for...negligent homicide?

[classof56]

4. Agreed. And welcome to DU.

n/t

[IronGate]

7. Gracias for the welcome.

[elleng]

5. Something like that,

IF the local laws allow for such. I posted this for people's awareness of how outrageous it is to allow such to continue.

and Welcome.

[Journeyman]

12. Was it negligent, or did someone figure 4 mouths to feed was one too many? . . .

The gun was cocked! I call bullshit it was negligent. Someone wanted someone dead. There's no other explanation for a cocked gun left in reach of children.

[Crunchy Frog]

27. Lots and lots and lots of fucking idiots.

We get these sorts of posts all the time.

What, you don't think they're as deserving of their liberty as the rest of us?

[mercuryblues]

32. I hope

they do arrest the fucking idiot. I am sick of kids getting hold of an adults gun and killing another kid in the home.

[NickB79]

46. I secure my fucking PELLET GUNS, for Christ's sake

Jesus Christ.

[840high]

47. ...^ that

[Skittles]

55. paranoid gun nuts

that kind

[Warpy]

77. Yeah, any of those kids could have found and moved that gun

I hope the cops are able to retrieve fingerprints.

Mama's boyfriend has a lot of explaining to do. So does Mama.

An unlocked gun in a house with kids is a tragedy waiting to happen and it's happening more and more.

[KamaAina]

6. If only the 11-year-old had been armed.

[Doctor_J]

82. Statistically she's never been safer

and, if the 2-yr-old had instead beaten her with a baseball bat, this wouldn't get any coverage at all

[tabasco]

94. For an American? Maybe, but you do not support your claim.

Of course, the child would have been much safer in Japan, Germany or UK, where NRA gun kooks don't have such powerful influence on the government.

[ehrnst]

8. Yeah, the top of the fridge is the most secure place in the house

Keeping the cookie jar there has kept kids from sneaking cookies for generations...

[IronGate]

10. It was moved from the top of the reefer

to the bedroom where the children were playing and left unsecured, loaded and cocked!!

Investigators believe a male friend of the children's mother left the gun on top of a refrigerator in the family's home in the Mantua neighborhood on the city's west side, but it was moved to a bedroom where four siblings were playing on Saturday morning.

The stupid in this tragedy is thick.

[rocktivity]

14. The two oldest children certainly could have moved it

and left it on the bed or a dresser within the 2-year old's reach. But my guess it was the mother.


rocktivity

[IronGate]

17. That would be my guess also.

[jeff47]

20. The mother because..........?

Yeah, tenagers never hide anything from their parents. And aren't immersed in a "GUNZ IS COOL!" media.

Gun owners need to be criminally and civilly liable for any action taken with their gun, until it is sold, destroyed, or reported stolen.

[rocktivity]

21. No one knows better than me that some kids plunder their parent's personal belongings

Last edited Sun Aug 30, 2020, 01:35 PM - Edit history (2)

But through either dumb luck or a primal survival instinct, I never got caught at it because I only did it when they WEREN'T home.

This very sketchy story strongly implies that the gun belonged to the mother's "friend" and that he was not home at the time. But neither of those may be true.

Maybe the mother moved the gun to the bedroom because she was getting ready to go out and was taking the gun with her, which would explain her trip to the bathroom...


rocktivity

[jeff47]

22. So the mother because of wild-ass speculation. (nt)

[FreedRadical]

9. Man people are stupid.

[3catwoman3]

11. Stupid,stupid, STUPID!!!

[BrotherIvan]

13. But but but...GUNZ!

Because everyone in the world is obviously smart enough to own a lethal weapon! And I want my "hobby" and my "freedom" so I don't care! IGMFU. Because criminals! And militias! And responsible! And GUNZ!!!!!!!!!

[olddad56]

16. and guns don't kill people, people kill people.

right

[BrotherIvan]

23. Because GUNZ are anything but a deadly weapon dontcha know!

Because we must tiptoe around those who scream the loudest that their rights (as they see them) trumps everyone else's safety. I have not been able to find statistics of so-called gun use for defense vs accidental deaths. We keep hearing these PR stories from the gunners, but it seems the harm far outweighs the good. It's the lie that keeps us paralyzed from fixing this situation.

Our country is awash with guns. Just one more way we are the laughing stock of the civilized world. Our death toll from shooting deaths is exponential compared to other countries. And yet, there is nothing we can do about it?

This child was able to pick up a loaded, cocked pistol as if it were a toy and kill his sister. The most gunners can do is mumble, Oops! or some nonsense about how one has to teach young children to be responsible. Adults who leave their weapons lying around so these tragedies can happen over and over are never held accountable. It's just collateral damage so people can feed their fantasies of "safety" when in fact they are making all of us less safe.

[Demobrat]

31. Gunner's rights DO trump everybody else's safety.

A few dead kids a year is a small price to pay for my right to wave a gun in your face should I so desire. I think that's been established.

[BrotherIvan]

33. Blood for the freedumb tree

I bet it makes you feel safe and warm! Heston-style.

[CTyankee]

90. and also "you've never been safer."

That's a stock phrase I've read many times...even here in this thread! Amazing isn't it?

[BrotherIvan]

91. Yes, more guns is always better

And never speak ill of the gun.

[SevenSixtyTwo]

15. We don't even have kids in the house.

Yet unless our firearms are in our complete control, they are locked in the gun safe. The owner of the gun should be charged with the child's death.

[otohara]

19. That Rarely Happens

just another tragic accidental shooting in the land of guns.

I just don't understand why people think they need guns.

[progressoid]

29. Yeah, another "accidnetal" shooting.

A gun was "accidentally" left loaded and cocked for the kids to play with.

[SevenSixtyTwo]

44. Many years ago

I was mugged in St. Pete. Woke up in the ER with a concussion. Three days in the hospital and two more weeks of lost work and a lot of pain. Couple of years later I was attacked by a gang initiating a new member. I was an easy target. Woke up again in the ER with broken cheek bone, two ribs, thumb and many contusions. I bought a revolver to pocket carry. Fast forward to the day I came home from work and a guy was coming out of my own house with one of my own kitchen knives toward me. I drew on him while yelling at him to stop. He turned the other way which is exactly what I was hoping he would do. I do NOT want to hurt anyone however, I don't want to wake up in the ER again either or not wake up at all. I would have shot him if he would have continued toward me threatening with the knife. I hope to NEVER "NEED" a firearm again. Sheriff made a report and I never heard anymore about it. That was over 30 years ago. We should value our right to defend ourselves.

My other firearms are for target shooting sport at the range with friends and family. Kinda like bowling except not as noisy! It's a lot of fun but, firearms safety including safe storage should be mandatory. There is absolutely no excuse for negligence.

I wonder if the boyfriend was even legal to possess a firearm.

[sweetapogee]

60. perhaps

"I wonder if the boyfriend was even legal to possess a firearm."

I wonder if there really is even a boyfriend. Imagine some dude going over to his girl's place and leaving his gun there.

Since the actual killer in this case is the gun, they should arrest the hardware, including the remaining bullets, and register the boyfriend.

[SevenSixtyTwo]

63. Good point!

At some point in time, someone was the original purchaser of the gun. There should be a paper trail to it's last owner. Someone is responsible for the gun not being in the owner's emediate control or locked in a secure safe or container or disabled. The gun, nor the two year old is responsible.

[mindwalker_i]

24. Guns don't kill people

Two-year-olds kill people.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

58. First degree murder. . .put the two year old on trial!

And protect the gun! 2nd amendment gun humpers won't like it if you say anything that will restrict their self-esteem enabler.

[exboyfil]

25. How can we be sure the 2 year old pulled the trigger

Obviously a 2 year old can't defend themselves from the charges and will not be held accountable for it either. Who knows what happened in the house unless one of the older kids talks. It could beone of the older children playing with the gun or an adult accidentally or intentionally shooting the gun. A while ago their was a story where a kid was playing guns by pointing his finger towards a step dad/live in who drew what he thought was an unloaded gun and shot the kid - that story did not pass the smell test either.

[Crunchy Frog]

26. Another child sacrifice to the gun gods.

It's the price we pay for liberty in this country doncha know?

[elleng]

28. and in NY, Lawmakers push for further gun restrictions.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10689296

[ManiacJoe]

34. Both the mother and the male friend are at fault for this.

There is no excuse for leaving an unsecured firearm around children.

[rocktivity]

35. A "male friend of the children's mother left the gun"?

Did the friend live in the home with the mother and children? Was he present when the shooting occurred? How long was the gun in the home? And what the heck does friend's gender have to do with anything?


rocktivity

[ManiacJoe]

36. It would appear that the female friends

were smart enough not to leave a loaded shotgun on top of the refrigerator.

> And what the heck does friend's gender have to do with anything?

[geretogo]

37. These shootings are becoming too common place. The shootings are either because of an irresponsible

parent with guns or a person on prescription drugs with a gun . Of course nothing will ever change
as long as the NRA rules over the people .

[Hoyt]

38. Sad way to introduce kids to gun culture.

[dbackjon]

39. Clearly the girl's fault

She never should have been living in a place with guns lying around.

She should have chosen to move to the Hamptons, or some other safer place with more responsible parents.

Oh well, she won't make that mistake again.

[TBF]

40. Can a 2-yr old lift a gun?

There is all kinds of wrong with this story. Older kids messing around possibly ... but I don't buy the 2-yr old picked up the loaded gun and aimed it at the 11-yr old. Why wouldn't one of the teens grab it away? Just crazy.

[warrant46]

43. It was the felon "Baby Daddy" who left the scene

The whole deal covered up by its Mother

[rocktivity]

48. True -- we only have mom's word for it that he wasn't here

or even that he owned the gun.

And why did he leave the gun there in the first place -- to hide it, plant it, or because the mother asked him to?


rocktivity

[rocktivity]

45. It was a .357 caliber handgun with an 8-inch barrel

Last edited Wed Apr 16, 2014, 08:26 PM - Edit history (4)

According to this report. This is a replica I found on Amazon, of all places:



It looks a bit much for two-year-old to lift.


rocktivity

[TBF]

50. I'm not a gun owner -

but even in shooting bb guns as kids it was a little harder to hold it straight and shoot to hit the soda can than you would think. It just strikes me as odd that a 2-yr old would be able to accomplish all that. The event may have been an accident but I'm very suspicious of "the toddler did it!".

[SevenSixtyTwo]

52. If this is accurate,

I have a hard time believing it was the two year old. Even if she could hold it up with two hands, I seriously doubt she would be able to pull it's 8-14 lb trigger. They might as well blame the cat.

[rocktivity]

53. Well, a more recent report says that gunpowder residue was found only on the 2-year old

And that the gun had already been cocked (link). Cocked by who? Do you normally cock a gun and lay it down somewhere?


rocktivity

[SevenSixtyTwo]

59. Definitely not!

I missed that part. In that case a very light trigger pull. Maybe one of the older kids cocked it. Just the same, the owner should be charged with negligent homocide and with any felony charges that would stick. We don't leave knives or drill motors out where kids could get hurt. Definitely not a firearm.

[TBF]

61. Interesting -

Cocked guns lying around for 2-yr olds to pick up ... nice.

It's one thing to talk about reasonable gun control, but this story is just all kinds of crazy. It wouldn't be the one I'd use to convince anyone. Unless I were making the argument that dysfunctional folks shouldn't be owning guns (maybe an argument for testing/licensing - maybe there should be a process like we go through to license people who want to drive cars).

[SevenSixtyTwo]

64. I've always been

In favor of that. License to own or be in possession. Gun registry would be a huge clusterfk but a Bill of Sale kept by the seller and buyer like gun shops do isn't a bad idea for the seller or buyer.

[TBF]

65. It's kind of the same concept -

both guns and cars are widely used in society and can be dangerous. Therefore asking for a level of competence to use them (ie licensing) seems like a good idea. Then at least you know people have had some training & maybe there would be a way to sort of screen the users to make sure they are reasonably sane. They practice at a gun range for example, take a written and practical exam as we do with vehicles, and then are licensed for a number of years. I would think most adults would find that responsible. I would think the NRA could be involved in this process and entreprenaurs could open shooting schools (similar to driving schools).

This is what I'd like to see rather than just banning something outright because a few people are grossly irresponsible.

[SevenSixtyTwo]

66. I like your approach.

I took a firearms course and had a background check done in order to qualify for a CWFL here on Florida. Every firearm I've bought included a background check. It wasn't painful at all.

[beevul]

76. But it really isn't.

They practice at a gun range for example, take a written and practical exam as we do with vehicles, and then are licensed for a number of years.

That license you refer to, is a license to drive in public , not a license to own a motor vehicle. People in rural areas drive around the farm properties without licenses quite regularly.

There already exists a true parallel - a concealed carry license which allows carry in public, but oddly enough most people that talk "gun licensing" are against them.

What you're talking about, is a license to own, which one doesn't need for a home, a car, an airplane, alcohol, or just about anything else.

Unless you meant that this license would allow people to carry in public. Did you?

[TBF]

81. Interesting -

no I hadn't thought about it in that way. I will continue to think that over. Maybe a more apt comparison would be open carry - it's not like cars or motorcycles are hidden.

I dunno, I was thinking strictly in terms of using a powerful piece of machinery in public.

I do know you are correct about kids driving tractors on their parent's own property - but is it legal to do so?

I'll have to think about the comparison/usage some more.

[RobinA]

83. If You Live

in Mantua, Philadelphia, you better emerge from the womb capable of handling a firearm.

[rocktivity]

86. Well, then, it is possible to UN-cock a gun without discharging it?

Last edited Wed Apr 9, 2014, 06:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I suppose that a pre-cocked gun having a trigger pull light enough for a two-year old is possible. But we're talking about a gun that's nearly a foot long -- would a two-year old be able to lift it, never mind point it?


rocktivity

[onehandle]

41. Tax Gun Owners! They are the anchor taking America to the bottom. nt

[rocktivity]

42. More details

Last edited Mon Apr 7, 2014, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)

NBC Philadelphia.com: ...Investigators say 11-year-old Jamara Stevens was killed when she and her three siblings, a 14-year-old boy, 7-year-old girl and 2-year-old boy, were playing with a .357 caliber handgun with an 8-inch barrel in their Mantuna home...10 a.m. Saturday.

Tiffany Goldwire and her four children were in her bedroom, when she went to use the...bathroom...(T)he kids located the loaded firearm, which was left on top of the refrigerator by the mother's boyfriend who visited the home earlier that morning, and the eldest child retrieved it, according to reports. While playing with the weapon, the 2-year-old boy pointed the loaded, cocked gun in the direction of his 11-year-old sister and it discharged, striking her in the arm, according to authorities.

Sources tell NBC10 authorities determined the 2-year-old boy pulled the trigger because his arm had traces of gun powder and a burn from the blast.

Police say this is not the first time they have been to the Mantua home and that Goldwire is not cooperating with the investigation. Detectives say they are trying to figure out who owned the handgun, which they found on Goldwire's bed...

Well, when she entered the bathroom, was she aware that the 14-year old had the gun? If they'd never seen it before, I would think that the younger kids would have raised enough of a fuss to attract Goldwire's attention. Or maybe the eldest child bought the gun into the bedroom because Goldwire asked him to.


rocktivity

[840high]

49. ty

[gopiscrap]

51. First of all: get rid of guns

also nail the fucking parents or guardian!

[valerief]

54. If only the 11-year-old had a gun, too. Gungeoneer logic. nt

[ManiacJoe]

56. Actually you are the only one here that says that.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

57. Cue gun humpers in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. . .

[hack89]

62. You would have more impact

Last edited Tue Apr 8, 2014, 08:14 PM - Edit history (1)

if you were poster 1 instead of 57.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

68. Again, 8,000 miles and 15 time zones away makes being #1 a little hard since

most of this crap happens when I am sound asleep

But thanks for the snarky piece of advice. It made its way into the circular file.

[hack89]

69. So you post classic snark and then take offense when I respond in kind?

ok.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

70. No, I take offense to the fact that you assume I waited such a long time.

Again, 8,000 miles away and 15 time zones away makes punctual responding almost impossible. But thanks for playing.

[hack89]

71. Then don't post things that make you look stupid

You know you will not be able to post in a timely manner so don't post things that depend on timing. It is not complicated.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

72. Yes, Dad. I will listen. Back to my original point. . .cue gun humpers in 5,4,3,2,1

[Nanjing to Seoul]

78. Fast learning. . .that ignore button works well. Welcome to it. Nice personal insult too.

[Egnever]

67. not buying this story

A two year old lifting this gun defies belief Forget about aiming and pulling the trigger even of it was cocked

[Doctor_J]

74. mmm...somehow I don't think the 2-year-old "aimed"

[RobinA]

84. No It Doesn't

In grad school we saw a video about research into a gun program for toddlers. The idea was to teach kids that when they came across a gun they should not touch it and immediately report it to an adult. The study was to see if the program was effective. So they went through this whole 1:1 lesson with each toddler about guns being bad, and they could hurt people, and that they should never ever touch one. They acted out with the kid finding a gun, what should be done, etc. They rehearsed with each kid showing the adult what they would do if they found a gun. Kids all knew exactly what to do and could play act what they were supposed to do. Oh, and they used the kids' parents as the teachers, following a script that had been designed to be appropriate to a toddler's developmental ability.

Then they put each kid in a room by himself with toys to play with and a gun hidden somewhere. They filmed each kid to see what he or she would do. Each kid explored the room and eventually found the gun. Each kid picked up the gun, looked at it and handled it a bit. Then they held up the gun and aimed it. Exactly like you would aim a gun. They didn't point it up, or down, they pointed it out as if to shoot something. A few looked down the barrel. Some pulled the trigger, some did not. Some made "pow" noises, some did not. Not one kid appeared to hesitate for a moment before picking up the gun when they found it. Some kids absolutely dove for the thing when they discovered it amongst the toys. It was incredible and completely not incredible at the same time.

[riversk1953hy]

75. Just another typical day in gun-crazy USA

Honestly, when will Americans ever realize the damage these killing devices are capable of, and restrict access to them? When pigs fly, I suppose. Meanwhile, these tragedies will keep on occurring day after day, in every city around the country.

[miyazaki]

80. Do they have pre-school prisons?

Won't be long. As to incarceration numbers in this country, we'll all end up behind
bars someday. Age is not a factor!

[rocktivity]

87. UPDATE: Detectives are currently searching for 31-year-old Tiffany Goldwire

Goldwire is wanted for involuntary manslaughter in connection with the shooting death of her 11-year-old Jamara Stevens on April 5th.

The shooting happened inside the family’s home...Investigators say four children — a 14-year-old, 11-year-old, seven-year-old and a two-year old — were at home together. When their mother left the room...the two-year-old got hold of a loaded gun left in a bedroom by the mother’s male friend...The mother and authorities rushed her to Children’s Hospital Of Philadelphia, but she later died... link

I wonder if the cops have talked to the boyfriend. And they'd better do a trace on that gun, too.


rocktivity

[Stuart G]

88. Here is another one...put up an hour and 30 minutes ago.....see link:

Brother 4 shoots 2 year old after finding gun...



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024831454

[wordpix]

89. like Chris Rock says, we need bullet control- bullets should cost $5000 each

Hilarious rant and I think he's onto something that would work.

[rocktivity]

92. Mother surrenders in toddler's fatal shooting of 11-year-old

Last edited Fri Apr 18, 2014, 09:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Philly.com: ...Tiffany Goldwire, 31, of West Philadelphia, was being charged with involuntary manslaughter, endangering the welfare of children, and weapons offense...Goldwire's daughter, Jamara Stevens, died April 5 after she and her siblings found a cocked and loaded .357-caliber revolver in Goldwire's bedroom...

Goldwire's boyfriend had left the gun on top of a refrigerator earlier in the day...Goldwire then told Stevens' 14-year-old sibling to move the gun to a "safe place," said...a police spokesman. The teenager placed the weapon under Goldwire's bed, where the younger children found it...

Goldwire has eight previous arrests for weapons, theft, and assault charges. In 2009 she pleaded guilty to illegally possessing a firearm and was sentenced to 23 months in prison.

Assuming she got out of jail in 2011, we can also safely assume that not possessing a weapon was a condition of her parole. So let's see if the boyfriend will back up her story -- did he leave the gun there out of forgetfulness, to avoid having it found on his person, or because she asked him to?


rocktivity

[The Second Stone]

93. If that girl had a gun herself she could have shot her little brother in self defense

this tragedy was preventable.