Russian state TV says Jews brought Holocaust on themselves

[Behind the Aegis]

Source: Ha'aretz

TV presenter makes comment while discussing the Ukrainian uprising with a guest.

A presenter on Russia's state TV, Evelyn Zakamskaya, said on air that the Jews helped bring the Holocaust on themselves, according to a blog post published on Sunday.

Zakamskaya was responding to a guest on the show, who said it was "strange" that Jewish organizations support Maidan (the Ukrainian protest movement). "They do not realize that they are, with their own hands, closer to the Holocaust?"

To that, Zakamskaya responded: "They also advanced the first [Holocaust.]"

Blogger John Aravosis from AMERICAblog confirmed the transcript of the show with Buzzfeed's Miriam Elder, who said it was "accurate, if incomplete."


Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.581534

---

If you have been to Ha'aretz this week, you won't be able to see the article, if not, you can see the entire article. You can get a free membership which allows for 10 articles a month. Not an endorsement, simply a reality.

[lostincalifornia]

1. What a jerk. Are they trying to bring back the pogrom? I wonder how zakamskaya would

justify russia's ally the nazis before hitler double crossed them in WWII. I would say zakamskaya has a very perverted view of history, and should look at the actions of their own asinine leaders

[freshwest]

68. That 'russia's ally the nazis before hitler double crossed them' seems forgotten by many. Thanks. nt

[jakeXT]

2. The only example I can think of would be the ghetto police, probably a few just like IDF on Maidan

Members of the Jüdischer Ordnungsdienst did not have official uniforms, often wearing just an identifying armband and a badge, and were not allowed to carry firearms. They were used by the Germans primarily for securing the deportation of other Jews to the concentration camps.

..

The Polish-Jewish historian and the Warsaw Ghetto archivist Emanuel Ringelblum has described the cruelty of the ghetto police as "at times greater than that of the Germans, the Ukrainians and the Latvians."[4] The fate of the Jewish Policemen was eventually the same as all other ghetto Jews. Upon the liquidation of the ghettos (1942-1943) they were either murdered on site or sent to the extermination camps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Ghetto_Police

The ex-Israeli soldier who led a Kiev fighting unit
'Delta' has headed 'the Blue Helmets of Maidan' of 40 men and women - including several IDF veterans - in violent clashes with government forces.


...

Still, Delta’s reasons for not revealing his name betray his sense of feeling like an outsider. “If I were Ukrainian, I would have been a hero. But for me it’s better to not reveal my name if I want to keep living here in peace and quiet,” he said.

Fellow Jews have criticized him for working with Svoboda. “Some asked me if instead of ‘Shalom’ they should now greet me with a ‘Sieg heil.’ I simply find it laughable,” he said. But he does have frustrations related to being an outsider. “Sometimes I tell myself, ‘What are you doing? This is not your army. This isn’t even your country.’”

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114

[joshcryer]

10. ...

[Behind the Aegis]

11. Hmmm...

That's might be more the equivalent of Africans that sold other Africans into slavery and concluding "Blacks are responsible for slavery."

[joshcryer]

52. Note, a *former* IDF guy.

He went there out of his own feeling of self-determination, not because he supported the fascists who no doubt got more air time because of Russia's fomenting fascist tendencies in some small parts of the population. And he was by no means representing the Israeli military there...

[Behind the Aegis]

55. Yeah, something stinks.

[joshcryer]

65. Especially when Israel has compulsory conscription?

What are the odds a Jewish person was IDF? 95%?

[Cha]

3. Sounds like Russian stupid propaganda to me.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. Consider the source...

It seems to me that recently we've gone backwards, rather than forward, on the issues of civil rights and equality. Bigots seem to have found a national (and now international) forum. Scares me to death...

[tofuandbeer]

17. +1

There's a lot of talk going on now, we need to be concerned with how true it is.
Some folks are probably rubbing their greedy hands about now.

[freshwest]

5. More lovely ideas from the mindset that gave us WW2. Gee, who'd have guessed? They're back...

Hey, haters:

[Warren DeMontague]

6. Nice.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

7. Remind me never to go that Turd World Country ever! Homophobia, Anti-Semitism. . .wishing to

restart the cold war.

[joshcryer]

8. Putin is a fascist.

[steve2470]

24. yes he is nt

[Ken Burch]

9. Disgusting, of course(and you knew we'd all agree that it was)

I denounce it. Beyond that, all we can do is give verbal support to the Russian democracy movement.

[joshcryer]

20. Russian democracy is anti-Putin.

So I agree wholeheartedly.

[Ken Burch]

69. But that's only for the Russians to deal with.

It can't be progressive for the U.S. to intervene as a government or militarily in Russia.

After Vietnam and Iraq, our government is forever morally unqualified to do that.

[joshcryer]

70. It is progressive to note Putin is a fascist.

That doesn't mean you advocate doing anything about it.

[Ken Burch]

72. Agreed

We both support the Russian democratic movement.

[davidpdx]

12. I thought the fascist Nazi's were all in Ukraine?

At least that's what we've been told by the pro-Russian propagandists on DU

[freshwest]

13. They're everywhere and haven't learned a thing. The new hip anti-Semites ones are CTers. n/t

[davidpdx]

16. Yes, that is true

Especially about not learning anything. Even almost 70 years after the end of WWII there are still forces of hate.

[JustAnotherGen]

27. +1 n/t

[uriel1972]

14. but, but.. There are no Pro-Putin posters on DU

I've been told. By a most impeccable source, who has obviously read all the posts ever written on DU.

[davidpdx]

15. *high five*

[ColesCountyDem]

21. +1000! n/t

[Cha]

22. Right.. I'm not to believe my lying eyes.

[7962]

26. I wonder where they all are on this OP? Maybe its just early, or they're finding the TRUTH

for us. Because obviously THIS cant be right and must be some right wing plot to embarrass the Russians.

[Cha]

38. It's the "west's fault".

[Behind the Aegis]

39. This story details some of it well...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101688867

(Note, there are some extremely racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic clips at the link within the OP!)

[Cha]

40. Sorry, about all this, BtA.. thank you for the information.

[Behind the Aegis]

41. In the past month, two posters were escorted from the premises for stating similar ideas.

One got the boot just last week. It is much more common than one might think. It isn't "mainstream" to be sure, but it is just the fringe repeating this shit anymore. Personally, I think it will only increase as more and more Holocaust survivors pass on.

[Cha]

42. I'm not surprised.. all kinds of crap ct shows up on DU and thankfully

it mostly gets the boot. And there's all kinds of people out there and it's sad there are those whose lives are so empty they have to glom on to the rantings of hate radio/tv. You know they didn't just pick this out of thin air.

[seveneyes]

35. It appears other leaders are calling for extermination elsewhere

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/178825#.UzB7K84Rfs1

Hamas Lawmaker: Koran Says We Must Massacre Jews

A lawmaker from Hamas recently called for a “massacre” of Jews, explaining that the Koran indicates that this must be done.

In a televised address the lawmaker, Yunis Al-Astal, also said that Jews must be forced to pay the “jizya” tax, which under the strict Islamic Sharia doctrine, non-Muslims living under Muslim sovereignty must pay in return for the ruler's protection. Jihadist rebels who have taken control of areas in Syria have imposed such a tax on Christian minorities.

[LeftishBrit]

18. Some things don't change, sadly

The term 'refuseniks' originally referred to Jews who wished to leave the Soviet Union, and were refused permission to do so.

Russia, and many Eastern Europaean countries, have a big problem with anti-Semitism, as well as other far-right attitudes.

[gordianot]

23. Sounds to me Russia has their equivalent of Fox News contributors.

If not the same identical message then given in the same hateful spirit.

[Sunlei]

25. fox lies does russia

[hrmjustin]

28. .

[theHandpuppet]

29. Hateful and disgusting...

... but not surprising.

Here's to you, Pooty-Poot --

[NickB79]

30. Paging the Putin bootlickers, Putin bootlickers to customer service please

Your extra-large order of "Fuck you" is ready for pick up.

[okaawhatever]

32. +100 nt

[blackspade]

31. No words...

[okaawhatever]

33. Russia's dysfunctional relationship with history rears it's ugly head once again. Jewish people

aren't the problem, bigotry and hate are. Something Russia seems to have an abundance of these days. Why can't they grasp the concept that the Jewish citizens of Ukraine can be a part of the protest against the corrupt government of Yanukovych without supporting the Right Sector types?

[jakeXT]

34. I take orders from them, but I disagree with them ? Sounds crazy to me

As platoon leader, Delta says he takes orders from activists connected to Svoboda, an ultra-nationalist party that has been frequently accused of anti-Semitism and whose members have been said to have had key positions in organizing the opposition protests.

“I don’t belong (to Svoboda), but I take orders from their team. They know I’m Israeli, Jewish and an ex-IDF soldier. They call me ‘brother,’” he said. “What they’re saying about Svoboda is exaggerated, I know this for a fact. I don’t like them because they’re inconsistent, not because of (any) anti-Semitism issue.”

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114

[Behind the Aegis]

37. What is the point you are trying to make?

This is the second time in this thread you have posted this excerpt. What do you think it proves? How is it related to the topic of the OP?

[jakeXT]

43. It's the same link, but a different excerpt

The text of the OP is about Jewish organizations supporting Maidan

Zakamskaya was responding to a guest on the show, who said it was "strange" that Jewish organizations support Maidan (the Ukrainian protest movement).

[Behind the Aegis]

44. And from that "conclusion" comes, "The Jews brought the Holocaust on themselves."

Are you making the same comparison or what?

[jakeXT]

46. I don't write headlines for haaretz /nt

[Behind the Aegis]

48. I didn't imply you did.

I asked if you were drawing the same conclusion or not.

[jakeXT]

49. Just like some participated in the violent protests,

some participated in the crimes of Nazi Germany.
You'll always find people, who don't think about the consequences of their actions.
It's just how humans are.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. While true, it doesn't mean they are responsible for the overall effect.

Just as Africans sold other Africans into slavery, it doesn't mean "Blacks are responsible for slavery." Wouldn't you agree?

[jakeXT]

51. It would've happened anyway

Just like a couple of ex-IDF soldiers on Maidan helped with tactics and fighting.
But without them, the outcome would be the same.

[Behind the Aegis]

54. So, more circular "logic?"

So basically, the "blame the victim" mentality is acceptable? Are the Jews responsible for the Holocaust or not?

[jakeXT]

56. Why are you trying to blame a majority for the actions of a minority ? /nt

[Behind the Aegis]

57. Why do you refuse to answer the question? (Were the Jews responsible for the Holocaust?)

Or did you just answer it?

[jakeXT]

58. Some Germans saved Jews, and some Jews betrayed other Jews

I don't get the obsession for collective guilt

[Behind the Aegis]

59. Not all Germans were Nazis. It still doesn't justify "Jews are responsible for the Holocaust."

You claim to not to get "obsession for collective guilt" and yet...your former post. So, do you believe "Jews are responsible for the Holocaust" as the Russian TV newscaster implies?

[jakeXT]

60. Implies or says ?

It's a pretty murky statement

Who is they ? What is meant by advance ?


The first "they" by PROKHANOV refers to Jewish organizations supporting Maidan.
So is the second "they" talking about Jews, who participated in the Holocaust like the ghetto police ? Or is the word "they" talking about all Jews ?

PROKHANOV: It is strange that Jewish organizations – European and Russian – support Maidan. They do that? They do not realize that they are, with their own hands, closer to the second Holocaust?


HOST EVELYN ZAKAMSKAYA: They also advanced the first (Holocaust).

[Behind the Aegis]

61. Are you serious?

Did she say jack shit about "ghetto police" or was that you? Was the "ghetto police" a "Jewish organization?" I don't think it was. The splitting hairs you are doing is absurd. Now, answer the question: are the Jews responsible for the Holocaust.

[jakeXT]

63. I think it's splitting hairs to say "Jews Brought Holocaust On Themselves"

It's obvious to me what was meant during the discussion. The question is not if the Jews are responsible for the Holocaust.
The guy asking the question couldn't understand how any Jew could support Maidan and work together with Svoboda or the Right Sector.
Because he fears it will bring another Holocaust.

The journalist isn't surprised, because she knows from history that some Jews have collaborated with Nazis and therefore participated in the first Holocaust.
She should have used more words and be more clear about it and maybe used an example.

[Behind the Aegis]

64. And yet you still refuse to answer the question.

That is the question. The one person is asking a question, but it is the response of the other which is the issue, which you keep spinning as "not an issue."

"Because he fears it will bring another Holocaust."

Really?! He "fears" it? You were able to ascertain that from his comments, but can't understand the implication that Jews were responsible for the Holocaust by the second commenter?

There is no "some" in her comments, only in your comments. There was no "some Jews have collaborated with Nazis and therefore participated in the first Holocaust." there is only "They also advanced the first." It isn't a difficult leap to understand what she was implying.

"She should have used more words and be more clear about it and maybe used an example."

But she didn't, and as it stands, it appears she is claiming Jews were responsible for the Holocaust. Are you claiming the same?

[jakeXT]

66. If she really thinks that then she is wrong. /nt

[leftynyc]

67. I'm not liking the smell of this one, Aegis

Seems like a simple enough question to answer.

[joshcryer]

53. Jewish ghetto police are incomparable to Maidan protesters.

Are you kidding me. This is absurd.

On one hand you have individual actors protesting.

On the other you have thousands of police watching as their communities are completely torn apart by Nazi actions.

It is absolutely and patently absurd.

[Cha]

45. And..?

[jakeXT]

47. Some people don't read posts, so you have to explain it .

[Zorra]

36. I despise and detest nazis/fascists, all of them, everywhere, past, present, and future.

[freshwest]

62. Thanks for posting this and the other link I just replied to... This must be exposed. And neo-cons

say that Putin has more moral authority than Obama?



Consider my buttons pushed!

[stevenleser]

71. Seems just about all of the Putinistas stayed away from this OP. Wonder why.

As we have been telling them (the Putinistas), Antisemitism is and has been a big problem throughout most of Eastern Europe for the past 70+ years and Russia is one of the worst places for it.

Russia/Russians and their supporters have no right to point to Ukraine and cry about antisemitism. There is plenty of work to do to deal with it in Russia.