Pro-Russian crowds seize 2 Ukrainian warships

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-EXCITE

By JIM HEINTZ and DAVID RISING

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) - Pro-Russian crowds seized two Ukrainian warships Thursday and Ukraine said its troops were being threatened in Crimea as the European Union considered new sanctions against Russia for its annexation of the Black Sea peninsula.

Tensions in the region remained high despite the release of a Ukrainian naval commander held by pro-Russian forces.

Shots were fired but there were no casualties as the Ukrainian corvette Khmelnitsky was seized in Sevastopol, according to an AP photographer at the scene. Another ship, the Lutsk, was also surrounded by pro-Russian forces.

The Defense Ministry had no immediate information on the incidents.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140320/DACLFJ080.html

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Ukrainian air force officers walk with their bags at the Belbek airbase, outside Sevastopol, Crimea, on Thursday, March 20, 2014. With thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and sailors trapped on military bases, surrounded by heavily armed Russian forces and pro-Russia militia, the Kiev government said it was drawing up plans to evacuate its outnumbered troops from Crimea back to the mainland and would seek U.N. support to turn the peninsula into a demilitarized zone. (AP Photo/Ivan Sekretarev)

[newthinking]

1. They are not trapped. They had been ordered not to leave

They were given orders to stand down and leave at about the time these events happened.

[ballyhoo]

2. Yes. I thought that was announced yesterday...

Isn't this all pretty much a done-deal now?

[Democracyinkind]

3. This is an interesting development, if foreseeable.

I was wondering what would happen to the Ukrainian Navy - part of which was used in NATO operations. I guess the Russians will take the Navy back, after having sold it to the Ukrainians - dolphins and all included. That's some shrewd Russian business-making

[Anansi1171]

5. Its democracy at work!

There were likely facists on board suppressing an ethnic Russian or Russian-speaking cook.

Consider them liberated!

[Democracyinkind]

6. It's more like Realpolitik. Or did you believe that the Ukrainian Navy was going to lease a base...

... from the Russians?

[dipsydoodle]

9. Maybe they could have

if Kiev was prepared to pay the $1 billion a year that Russia had been paying since 2010.

[Democracyinkind]

10. You mean if the EU was prepared to lend that extra billion?

In many ways, this is a silly situation. Almost Drole-de-guerre like.

[dipsydoodle]

12. EU will only lend what they foresee being paid back measured by ability to repay.

Hence the reason EU will use IMF rules : reduction in government expenditure including state pensions, increase price of gas currently supplied to consumers at less than 50% of cost to at least cost price paid by government and devalue currency to help increase exports.

[Democracyinkind]

14. I agree. Those who will pay for this game of imperial folly - will be the Ukrainian people.

And not just in monetary terms.

That is a sad and disheartening fact, but sadly it is the reality.

[dipsydoodle]

4. How the fuck do Pro-Russian crowds seized two Ukrainian warships ?

What did they use - pedalos ?

[Democracyinkind]

7. I wouldn't be sure about the loyalty of the "Ukrainian" sailors.

Not unthinkable that the Russians had help from within. Time will tell. Also, "pro-Russian crowds" doesn't necessarily mean "concerned civilians". Those "crowds" were instrumental in the whole operation in Crimea from the beginning.

[JVS]

11. Hey, how did an unarmed crowd topple the government in Kiev?

Strange things are afoot over there.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

13. My guess is that the "Pro-Russian crowds" looked something like this.

......Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh.........

[Earth_First]

8. I see the Russian military is doing a bang up job securing the region...

If I were a resident, I'd be fantastically alarmed that a civilian group was allowed to take possession of any infrastructure related to the military, Ukranian or otherwise.

This isn't the first development either.

What happens when these pro-Russian groups decide they want things outside of the Crimean peninsula?

Will Russia idly watch as they work into eastern Ukraine?

This 'mob-grab' mentality needs to be nipped in the bud by the Russian government before it gets even further out of hand.

[newthinking]

16. Citizen Militias on both sides are hyped up and out of control.

We don't like to say it, but there is essentially the start of civil war occurring, though it has not yet engaged the entire country and hopefully doesn't.

You make a good point though, there is a very real danger that nationalists on both sides (and right sector/svoboda, which is active in clashes) have the potential to escalate things. That is the real wild card out there.

[Igel]

15. Putin's got his game on.

He managed to get enough people to buy that, well, we really didn't *know* that the "self-defense" forces were Russian. So it wasn't an invasion.

He know that the Ukrainians won't fight back. Perhaps if it were Russian troops in Russian gear with Russian insignias shots could be fired. Otherwise, put a crowd in their. The Ukrainians won't fire on potential civilians; and the Russians will continue to sell that the Ukrainian troops are weak, unprepared to stand their ground, and can be steamrolled; even as they say that Russians are at great risk from Ukrainians.

Aksenov claimed the ships. All sorts of infrastructure. Nationalized banks. He's allies were the Communist Party, and it's strange how Russia is structured, economically. Most of the oligarchs lost their corporations but are allowed to stay in positions of power. Imagine if all of the important corporatists in the US served, basically, at Obama's--or Bush II's--pleasure. Nationalization would have no terror--because the important, government-supported corporatists that support the Great Leader know that they will, in turn, be supported.

This happened before in Western Europe, and it wasn't one of the shining moments in the West.

[newthinking]

17. The banks (like Privetbank) are still linked with Ukraine

Most all banks there are open but idle (not giving out money excepts in small quantities) in crimea.

Changing Nationalities (call it what you want geopoliticalyl but I am just adding to your pointing out how it works) of a region has all kinds of issues to be worked out.

Having to keep the banking industry somewhat shored up is not something that money is made on. All the banks in the country (Ukraine proper and crimea) are in trouble. Ukraine would be foolish to and certainly won't send funds to Crimean branches and they will ultimately reduce their obligations in those banks, most of which the buildings are rented.

Adding Crimea is certainly costing the Russians tremendous money.