Kiev claims it repelled Russian troops in south Ukraine - live updates

[snagglepuss]

Source: Guardian UK

Unian news agency that Russian helicopters landed near a gas distribution centre in Arabatskaya in the Kherson area. Russian troops set up checkpoints and stopped cars.

The agency reports that Ukrainian armoured personnel carriers, loaded with paratroopers moved to intercept the Russians. They have yet to report what happened next.


Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/ukraine-crisis-fatal-clashes-as-tensions-rise-before-crimea-vote-live

[OKNancy]

1. article updated

We now have a report from Reuters on the confrontation between Russian and Ukrainian forces.

Ukraine’s military scrambled aircraft and paratroops on Saturday to repel an attempt by Russian forces to enter a long spit of land belonging to a region adjacent to Crimea, Ukraine’s defence ministry said.
“Units of Ukraine’s armed forces today...repelled an attempt by servicemen of the armed forces of the Russian Federation to enter the territory of Kherson region on Arbatskaya Strelka,” a ministry statement said. “This was repelled immediately.”
It said the Ukrainian military used aircraft, ground forces and its aeromobile battalion in the operation. The territory in question is a long spit of land running parallel to the east of Ukraine’s Crimea peninsula, now controlled by Russian forces.

[dipsydoodle]

2. Quick - get the nukes primed.

[freshwest]

19. Watch it! I do have video to refute that! n/t

[OKNancy]

3. lol

[another_liberal]

4. Will it be funny . . .?

If a thousand or two thousand people are dead by tomorrow evening, will it still be funny?

Some folks have the strangest sense of humor.

[OKNancy]

9. I think a picture of Putin as a ballerina is funny

It's obvious you just want to poke at me because if someone can twist writing LOL at a picture of Putin as a ballerina into thinking that the person thinks death is funny, then you have the problem, not me.
Sorry if I offended your hero.

[another_liberal]

16. What makes you think the Russian President is my hero?

I was questioning your decision to make light of a story which may be a report on the opening of hostilities between Russia and Ukraine. That is not something which I consider a cause for humor, not at all.

As to President Putin: It is my opinion that he is an important World leader who deserves our respect. We would be wise to grant him at least a modicum of such respect, despite our personal biases against him and his country.

[strikeforce]

21. if you knew about putins younger days

you would not think that he deserves "our respect".

does the man/boy in north korea deserve our respect also ?

how about dr. assad ?

[another_liberal]

30. I do know a little about President Putin's family and his youth.

His mother and father both lived in Leningrad when that city was under Nazi siege for nine hundred days during World War II. His father was a Red Army soldier who was seriously wounded fighting to defend the city. His mother was one of millions of civilians drafted to build the city's defenses and to work in factories for the war effort there.

During the Winter of 1941-1942, food became so scarce in the surrounded city that rations for civilians like Putin's mother were first cut to four hundred and then to two hundred calories a day (only a small piece of bread). You only got that if you had the strength necessary walk through the frozen streets to reach a ration distribution center before they ran out of the day's allotment.

President Putin's mother got some nourishment when she visited her husband in the hospital where he was recovering from his wounds, until his doctors made her stop coming, because he needed all of his own meager rations to regain his strength and return to the fighting. She eventually became so weak from hunger that she fell into a coma and was actually laid out in the street to be taken to a mass grave with those recently dead from starvation or frozen to death in their unheated apartments.

President Putin's father returned to his home on convalescent leave at the very last moment and saved his wife from being buried alive. He managed to revive her and restored her strength somewhat by sharing with her the small supply of food he had been sent home with. Almost miraculously, they both survived the remainder of the siege and the following three more years of war.

President Putin tells the story that his mother's advice to him as he was leaving home to go to a government boarding school was: "Never ask for anything, and never complain."

[cosmicone]

5. BS ... Ukrainians have been crying wolf to get more sympathy

If Russians invade, they won't try to take some piddly-widdly namby-pamby portion -- they'd go after the whole enchilada pr Eastern Ukraine.

[MNBrewer]

6. Those Ukrainians are SUCH BULLIES!!!!!

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. Because that Vlad Putin is so ... BUTCH!!!!!!

None of your namby-pamby international-law obeying stuff here for your dreamboat, eh?

[cosmicone]

10. International law cannot be made up as one goes

The last time I checked, Yanukovytch was the elected leader of Ukraine and good or bad, he should not have been deposed by the CIA to install neonazis and fascists.

That would be consistent with international law.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. Ukrainians got rid of Yanukovytch

So that's not about international law. You are cheerleading for Putin, hoping he's not 'namby-pamby', to invade another country. That - sending your troops into another country to take control - is 'fascist'.

[cosmicone]

14. Ukrainian parliament voted to get rid of Yanukovytch

AFTER the parliament was stormed by fascists and neonazis and members supporting Yanukovytch were either forced to flee or voted against Yanukovytch at gunpoint.

It was not a free and fair election. Yanukovytch agreed to an EU brokered deal just days before to hold early elections but the CIA was too impatient to wait for those.

[strikeforce]

23. i believe it was

beyond the "cia"'s control by then mr.cosmonaut.

i admire your ability to trust a man like yanukovytch. i have some oceanfront property in missouri for sale at a cheap price.
interested ?

[iamthebandfanman]

13. so narrow-minded

to think anyone with an opposing view than you on this automatically loves putin.
you can, in fact, hold the position that what happened in the Ukraine was a right wing backed/lead coup of an elected government. was that corporatist/elitist government corrupt? sure. is the one that's being put into place just as corrupt? you bet. the Ukrainian masses have been tricked by extremists to do what they've wanted to do for decades. wikileaks has documents that show CIA links to folks in this 'new government' as well as links to organized mobs/gangs. that's just the truth.
now, that being said...
what Russia is doing is outrageous and needs to be dealt with. I totally back any and as much economic damage as possible against Russia for its actions. some people apparently see this as a hypocritical stance for the united states, given the invasion of Iraq... but in this country administrations change.. even if they wont do the right thing and punish the previous ones for their crimes.. unlike in Russia where putin has become oh dear glorious leader of a fascist corporatist nation.. something 'communist' leaders started a long time ago and what china enjoys so much today. the Russians tolerance for neo-Nazi groups within their own borders proves it enough for me. they are just using this coup as an excuse to do what they've wanted for a while... try to grab a lil land for strategic military reasons and show they can be just as active in changing the world (for good or bad) as the united states... show of power.. putins an egomaniac after all. that's why he tolerates nationalists in his country... he totally believes the he, and by default all Russians, are great. period. heck, I wouldn't be surprised if in his mind hes 'liberating' all the Russians in the Ukraine. people forget that not all nationalists are 'racists' per say.. some actually believe in their national heritage as superior , not necessarily their 'race'. so nationalists in one country might not necessarily get along with nationalists in another. the Nazis used race to unite ALL nationalists in every country they took over/invaded but even they continued to preach Germany first
hell, I wouldn't be mad if the majority of the world pressed so hard economically the bread lines formed again.. lets see ole putin weasel his way out of that mess. I highly doubt the Russian people will tolerate as much these days as they did in the past, especially the youth.

[red dog 1]

15. + 1

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/15/moscow-protest-crimea_n_4969970.html/

[another_liberal]

17. Well said.

There are some seriously narrow minds on display around here lately.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Just look for cosmicone's past posts on Putin

Putin is a master politician http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=728035
Putin is a brilliant strategist http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=741749
Putin has a 27 year old hottie mistress http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=502107
Obama and Kerry look like schoolchildren as compared to the seasoned Russian diplomatic front -- perfectly timed and nuanced. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=591640
Putin just showed his middle finger to Obama n/t http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=547020
Amazing ... on this forum, the KGB (FSB) is guilty until proven innocent. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=433698

For a year, cosmicone has been posting love poems for Putin (or the KGB/FSB he was in, and then head of), and saying he's so much more masterful than the namby-pamby American politicians.

[cosmicone]

24. Oh come on!

Not fair lumping those posts together because each one was reacting to a different situation and most had nothing to do with Ukraine.

For the record, I have no love lost for Putin but a strong Putin and a strong Russia is the only thing that stands between US/EU led imperialism in the world.

Even the Chinese who don't necessarily love Putin have come out in support of him and against sanctions/war etc.

If we want the world to be a stable and balanced place, we need Russia to remain strong or American corporations will use and abuse peasants around the world at will and pollute like there is no tomorrow.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. That's the point - you've been supporting Putin on a variety of subjects

because you prefer him (and the KGB - ! ) to the US - led by Obama - or EU.

Russia uses and abuses 'peasants' too. They are the most unequal country of any size in the world. And they pollute too. Putin is just as bad as Bush ever was. But you give him a free pass for invading countries, and admire him.

[cosmicone]

26. Where did I say I prefer him to Obama or EU?

Please don't put words in my mouth.

In some qualities, Putin is better than Obama just as in other qualities Obama is better than Putin. Obama, for example, has empathy which Putin totally lacks. But Obama is not a strong leader and lets repukes run all over him.

Obama is also academically brilliant but his overall strategic planning was only evident during his two campaigns.

I didn't agree with Ronnie Reagan on a single issue but he was a better leader than Obama and a masterful communicator. Are you now going to say I prefer Reagan over Obama?

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. "a strong Russia is the only thing that stands between US/EU led imperialism in the world"

If you think Reagan was a better leader than Obama, yes, you prefer him - as a president, which is what this is about, not as a friend, academic or dinner guest. And your desire for a 'strong leader' is, frankly, fascistic. That's what fascists desire.

[cosmicone]

28. You're really stretching it and seeing words in my posts

that don't exist.

I think Bill Clinton and JFK were strong leaders -- were they fascist too?

I think Jacques Chirac was a strong leader -- was he a fascist?

Having multiple pathways to goals and being decisive in taking action is not totalitarian -- it is working within the system to one's advantage.

[blm]

31. You actually are a piss-poor analyst, cosmic - that you couldn't read what was going

on between Lavrov and Kerry is evident. You accepted the corporate RW media POV and furthered it. Putin and Lavrov know damn well who they are dealing with in Kerry - they know the US media and how Bush operated. The KGB files would have been filled with Kerry's record - more accurate than what many of the nimrods running around today who repeat whatever they were told from propaganda media.

You think Putin believed the Swiftvets and doesn't know Kerry's actual record of service in Vietnam and that he has killed enemy combatants with his bare hands? That he investigated and exposed IranContra, BCCI, S&Ls and CIA drugruning? Dumb Americans don't know that corpmedia needed Bush to stay in office for the deregulation and media expansion they wanted, so they gave the Bush the cover he needed and gave Rove the narrative he needed.

YOU accept BS, swallow it, and repeat it.

Your analysis is childish and fit for a TeaParty meme.

[cosmicone]

32. your rant should be directed at someone else

I said nothing about John Kerry in the post you're responding to.

[blm]

33. I read your comment about Kerry that was linked.

I responded appropriately.

[cosmicone]

34. It was linked by someone else in relation to something quite different

Some people with agendas use previous posts out of context.

[Igel]

11. They'll take what they want, not what you need them to take to call it "invasion."

Doesn't matter if they cross the border and take 10 miles for 1000 miles. They're not meeting your criteria or mine; we're just not that important to them. They are sentient and can set their own goals and work to achieve them. The question is whether to call it "expanding the zone of influence," "properly adjusting borders for world peace on an ex parte basis," "invasion," or "liberating those in the land of darkness from the sin of Ukrainian fascism, even at the price of death and WWIII."



It's like "How could it have been rape? I only got a couple of inches in--if I wanted to actually commit rape, that's not where I'd have stopped." And having somebody else say, "Okay, I'll buy that. I want to go home early today, and all that paperwork would ruin my afternoon."

Or like Churchill asking a woman if she'd sleep with him for a million pounds. When she said yes, he returned with asking if she'd do it for 10. "What kind of a woman do you take me for?" "That has already been determined. Now we're just haggling over the price." He knew he was being a cad--and making a point. The woman's husband would hardly say, "Let's not make a scandal, dear--that would be horribly inconvenient. Just make a counteroffer of 20 and meet him in his bed if he accepts it."

The one exception--and it has a long-standing history of acceptability, but in the last couple of generations is frowned up--is "hot pursuit." If you're chasing somebody across the border you can continue to chase, provided that the other side will not or cannot take the necessary action to apprehend the person or group. (This is tacitly invoked in the bin Ladin raid and in similar cases.)

[hrmjustin]

18. Your saying they made this up?

[joshcryer]

29. They were basing in Kherson, VICE has video of it.

I think the retreated because this is a non-firing war and so far they realize that invading Ukraine proper is a bad idea. So they just backed off. If they just let the Ukrainian military through their ranks then they would concede that this is a non-firing war and that the Ukrainian military may go anywhere in Crimea with impunity.

Instead they allowed the official boundaries to be accepted.

[steve2470]

7. Live UN session here now

http://webtv.un.org/

[geek tragedy]

22. Time to take whatever sanctions they had drawn up and make them 5 times as severe

the evil empire is back