Peruvians feel robbed over US courts turning over salvaged treasure to former colonial ruler

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Peruvians feel robbed over US courts turning over salvaged treasure to former colonial ruler
By Associated Press, Updated: Tuesday, March 13, 1:46 AM

LIMA, Peru — We were robbed! That’s how many Peruvians feel, now that U.S. courts have given Spain the 17 tons of silver and gold coins that a private company salvaged from the wreck of a colonial-era Spanish sailing ship.

The treasure’s origin is not in dispute. The metals were mined and the coins minted in the Andes. The Spanish navy frigate that was carrying them to Spain exploded during an attack by British warships in 1804.

Peru argued it should get the precious metal recovered from the Nuestra Senora de Las Mercedes. But its legal case was sunk in large part by a historical fact: This country was, at the time, a Spanish dependency. It didn’t gain independence until 1821, the last bastion of Spanish rule in South America.

~snip~

Many Peruvians, however, feel they are entitled to the booty because of colonial Spain’s violent, exploitative legacy. Countless natives of the Andes were forced to abandon home and family and toil in life-choking conditions extracting ore underground.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/peruvians-feel-robbed-over-us-courts-turning-over-salvaged-treasure-to-former-colonial-ruler/2012/03/13/gIQAqMyt8R_story.html

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Peru should be allowed to keep it. Pizaro took THEIR gold centuries ago.

Atahualpa's refusal led Pizarro and his force to attack the Incan army in what became the Battle of Cajamarca on 16 November 1532. The Spanish were successful and Pizarro executed Atahualpa's 12-man honor guard and took the Inca captive at the so-called ransom room. Despite fulfilling his promise of filling one room (22 feet (7 m) by 17 feet (5 m))[5] with gold and two with silver, Atahualpa was convicted of killing his brother and plotting against Pizarro and his forces, and was executed by garrote on 26 July 1533.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Pizarro

My fourth grade teacher told us how the Pizaro captured the emperor of the Incas, held him hostage. The emperor filled three rooms with gold and silver in exchange for his release and that Pizaro had him killed anyway. I became anti-emperialist at that moment.

[cstanleytech]

19. I think they should have just done a split of 50/50 but thats just my opinion *shrug*

[EFerrari]

2. It's hard to believe these @sses are STILL ripping off Peru. n/t

[madokie]

3. Thieves steal

They stole it to begin with and they're stealing it again.
Maybe Spain will use the gold to finance the war crimes trials of the bush six.

splchk

[secondwind]

4. Spain "lost it" when the ship sank. They should give this bounty

to the folks who worked hard to find it, and let Peru purchase it back, or they can share it.

The last country that should get this is SPAIN.

[Proletariatprincess]

5. Why US Courts?

Why was it decided by US Courts? It seems like it should be decided by an international court...but I'm not sure what that would be. I just don't trust the US Justice system to deliver fair rulings anymore.

[dipsydoodle]

7. Was the wreck found in US waters ?

edit to add ;

In March 2007 the Florida-based company Odyssey Marine Exploration recovered 17 tons of gold and silver from the Mercedes, insisting that it had been found in international waters and therefore beyond the legal jurisdiction of any one country. The Spanish government branded the Odyssey team "21st century pirates" and in May 2007 launched legal proceedings arguing that the wreck was protected by "sovereign immunity" which prohibits the unauthorized disturbance or commercial exploitation of state-owned naval vessels. In June 2009 the Federal Court in Tampa found against Odyssey and ordered the treasure to be returned to Spain as has been done on Feb. 25th, 2012.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_5_October_1804

That battle was off the coast of Portugal so I must assume that involvement of US courts is associated with Odyssey's claim.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. It was an International LOS (Law of the Sea) issue

And there are no international courts with this kind of jurisdiction. The only courts with physical jurisdiction were the US ones.

Under LOS the decision was correct.

[happyslug]

10. The US Courts ruled it had no Jurisdiction, since it was a SPANISH warship.

Last edited Tue Mar 13, 2012, 11:04 AM - Edit history (1)

International law as to Salvage differ between Warships and Commercial Ships. A country NEVER loses ownership right to a warship, thus if found the country of the Warship has sole jurisdiction over the assets found on that Warship.

Now, Commercial Ships, belong to the Salvagers IF it can be shown that owners of the ship have given up all efforts to salvage the ship. In most cases that is easy, the ship is in the middle of a beech or some otherwise easy location and anyone could get at it and owners do not try. Thus it is "Abandoned".

On the other hand, if it is in the deep ocean or a unknown location, the owners of the ship can retain the right to the ship till it is found (This came up in a case involving a gold carrying SS Central America which sunk in 1857 and discovered in the 1980s, the US Courts ruled that since the Insurance companies had never officially stopped looking for the vessel and kept it on the books as a potential assets, thus no "abandonment" of the vessel ever took place).

More on the Ship that carried the 1850 era gold mentioned above:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Central_America

Comment on the Court Decision:
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-03-23/news/mn-14216_1_state-supreme-court

The key here is this was a Spanish FRIGATE, which is a WARSHIP, thus the issue of abandonment never comes up for it is clear that WARSHIPS remain the property of the country that built the warship. In the above article from the LA Times they mention the bell from the CSA Ababama, the courts ruled that since the Alabama was a WARSHIP, all salvage from it belongs to the Country that built it and while the Confederated States of America was NEVER recognized by any other country as an independent nation, the CSA did meet the minimal requirements of a Belligerent and as such belong to the Nation that contains what had been that armed Belligerent (i.e. belonged to the US, NOT to the people who salvaged the bell).

In simple terms, the US court ruled it is up to SPANISH courts to rule on whose silver and gold this belongs to for it was found on a SPANISH warship, nothing more or less. It is up to SPANISH courts to rule on who owns the GOLD and Silver.

It is clear the Gold and Silver was on a Spanish FRIGATE, here is a story of the British action against the Frigates BEFORE war was declared between Spain and Britain.
http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/battles/1804/c_santamaria.html

The sole legal issue decided by the American Courts was the Gold and Silver from a FRIGATE or a FREIGHTER and it the Judge ruled that it was clear the Gold was from a FRIGATE. Once that decision was made, the law is quite clear, the Country with jurisdiction over anything from the Frigate is the Country who owned that Warship when it went down and that is SPAIN.

[aarones]

6. Spam deleted by OKNancy (MIR Team)

[cosmicone]

8. This sucks

After the Europeans looted the rest of the world for centuries, they are still allowed to keep looting it.

[happyslug]

11. That the US Courts should rule on the ownership of a SPANISH Ship found in International waters?

That is ALL the US court ruled, that the US has NO JURISDICTION over the issue of ownership of the Silver and Gold found on this ship. The US Courts ruled that since the Ship was a SPANISH FRIGATE and as a Warship SPANISH Courts gets to decide who owns what. No other decision was made (Through it appears everyone, except for Spain, wanted the US Courts to hear the case for the simple reason they believe they had a chance of winning in US Courts as opposed to Spanish Courts).

[closeupready]

12. Terrible ruling. That booty belongs to Peru.

K&R

[happyslug]

13. No one ruled on whose "owns" the Gold and Silver, but that it is up to SPAIN to decide.

The Judge made a very narrow ruling, he ruled that they is NO EVIDENCE that any of the Gold and Silver was from any other ship then the Frigate that sunk AND a since a Frigate is a WARSHIP, the Nation who has sole jurisdiction over what was in the Warship is the Country that operated that Warship at the time it went down. In this case that means SPAIN The US Courts told everyone to go to Spain and plead their case, the US courts have no jurisdiction to decide anything about the ownership of the Gold and Silver from this warship.

[closeupready]

14. SPAIN LOST PERU. AND NEVER PAID REPARATIONS FOR

ALL THE GOLD THEY STOLE FROM A POPULATION THAT DID NOT ASK TO BE SUBJUGATED, TO SAY NOTHING OF THE NATIVES WHO WERE KILLED.

[happyslug]

15. This is a decision as to WHAT courts will hear the case NOT the merit of the arguments

The Gold and Silver was on a SPANISH warship, thus Spain and only Spain has jurisdiction over any issue as to ownership of that Gold and Silver. Those same augments can be made in a SPANISH court. That is ALL the US courts ruled, the issue of who owns the Gold is reserved to SPAIN. Spanish courts will gladly hear the case, but US Courts can NOT.

[sudopod]

18. I'm sure they'll be entirely impartial. :3 nt

[sabrina 1]

20. So they gave the ship back to Spain since it was their ship and are leaving it up to Spain

to do the right thing and return the booty to the rightful owners?

Let's hope that's what they do, or are forced to do. Maybe there does need to be an independent court set up to handle these situations.