N.J. Lieutenant Gov. Kim Guadagno slams 'false and illogical' claims by Hoboken mayor

[Botany]

Source: N.Y. Daily News

New Jersey Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno, Chris Christie's No. 2 in command, emphatically denied on Monday that the Christie administration held Sandy relief funds "hostage" as it bargained with Democratic Hoboken Mayor Dawn Zimmer over a real estate project.

Zimmer, 45, accused the administration of holding back aid money until she would agree to support a development project managed by the Rockefeller Group.

But Guadagno said she was "surprised" that Zimmer would "mischaracterize" their relationship and called the claims "offensive."

Zimmer's allegations emerged this weekend, when she took to cable news to accuse the Christie administration of "holding our Sandy funds hostage" to instead focus on Christie's pet project.




Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/n-lt-governor-slams-false-illogical-claims-article-1.1585322

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[Gothmog]

1. This was a weak denial

She did not go into the factual elements of the charges. I look forward to seeing what the Lt. Governor testifies to under oath

[spooky3]

3. Agreed.

[Scairp]

29. I watched part of it

Cause I couldn't watch it all, I was getting pissed. She got very dramatic and the faux outrage is amusing but it's quite obvious she is lying through her teeth, just like her boss.

[Gothmog]

31. I managed to watch all of this statement

The fact that she was getting very dramatic told me that she was worried

[spooky3]

2. Was she present during the alleged conversations

The Hoboken mayor had with another Christie staffer?

[Beacool]

28. The conversation was with Guadagno.

Mayor Zimmer said that Guadagno took her aside at the ceremony for the reopening of the local ShopRite last February. It was a big deal for the town because the ShopRite store had been under several feet of water after Sandy and suffered millions of dollars in damage. The company had to reevaluate whether they even wanted to reopen. Luckily they did because I'm there at least once a week.

According to Zimmer, Guadagno talked to her in private in the parking lot of the store. Some weeks later, Zimmer was at another event at Monmouth University and was sitting next to one of Christie's people. This man reiterated what Guadagno had said, either Zimmer approved the Rockefeller Group's project or Hoboken wouldn't get anymore relief money.

[Tx4obama]

40. spooky2 might be referring to the conversation Mayor Zimmer had with Richard Constable...

-snip-

At issue is an event in May of last year, when a group of officials gathered for a public television special on Sandy recovery. Zimmer sat alongside Richard Constable, Christie’s community affairs commissioner, and according to the mayor, Constable told her if she moved forward with a specific development deal, “they money would start flowing” to Hoboken.

-snip-

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024363022

[Beacool]

42. Thanks for the clarification.

I guess that's what spooky2 meant.

[spooky3]

45. thanks, I meant it in the Judge Judy sense - if the lt. gov. was not present when the mayor said

she was pressured, how does the lt. gov. know what was or was not said to the mayor? So, if she wasn't there, I don't see how she can testify that the mayor was not pressured, and the lt. gov. has no credibility, in my opinion.

[bigdarryl]

4. Did anybody expect her to come out and say YES THIS HAPPENED!!!

The Mayor is right.PLEASE!! these people in this Governors Administration are some lying pieces of shit.Just looking at the LT. Governor you can tell she's a piece of shit

[Scairp]

25. Mayor Zimmer did

She said that this woman would tell the truth. I guess she has misjudged her.

[Tx4obama]

39. I think Mayor Zimmer said Guadagno would tell the truth 'under oath', that hasn't happened yet. n/t

[Scairp]

44. I think we can guess about that

If this woman gets a subpoena herself she may take 5. Of course if all she did was lie to the world and call Mayor Zimmer a liar then under oath she might tell the truth. Or not. She doesn't seem like a decent person to me so we shall see.

[Fred Sanders]

5. Robotic response, no offer to testify under oath....."deny, deny, deny", liars know the mantra.

Not to mention no questions from the Press, and she took 48 hours to make a statement....but had the time to blast MSNBC for daring to tell the truth?

[Archae]

6. I had an Agnew flashback watching her...

Gawd, I remember how corrupt and deceptive he was.

[olegramps]

7. "mischaracterized"

I can only hope that whole damn bunch end up in prison with the Illinois ex-governor.

[Gerhard28]

14. The NJ Assembly has hired the Blagojovich prosecutor to run the Christie probe.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-blagojevich-prosecutor-christie-bridge-scandal-20140115,0,7706760.story

[Scairp]

26. I know!

He's the one who got them to send out 20 subpoenas instead of only 3. The gov and his minions are in deep doo-doo.

[warrior1]

8. the proof is in the pudding Kim

they didn't get the help that they needed, because it was for pay to play.

She's going down with christie.

[2naSalit]

9. And thus begins

the inevitable pile on for anyone who dares to speak up. Wonder how many folks will end up either dead or assigned a federal security detail.

[Walk away]

10. It looks like she won't be replacing the "Gov" when he's impeached....

Next!

[1monster]

11. Logic demands that I ask: Did the Mayor request Sandy Disaster Relief Funds? If so,

did she receive any Sandy Disaster Relief Funds? If so, Did Hoboken receive most of the funds requested? Okay, we know that Hoboken received only slightly more than $300,000 out of the $100,000,000 requested, so the answer is NO.

The next question has to be WHY NOT?

Hoboken Mayor Zimmer has presented her answer with backup evidence.

We are waiting on Christie and friends to reply as plausibly and with evidence...

[onehandle]

12. Send out the partisan hack liar to defend the Bullying Crook. nt

[George II]

13. It may have been more believable without all they hystrionics.

[heaven05]

15. I love watching

the 'death spiral' of this arrogant clown and hopefully his complicit underlings, including that one standing behind him in this photo. He and she just might not be able to get out of this one. I'm so glad for him.

[safeinOhio]

16. Accept the Mayor's offer

to a simple polygraph test. Then we'll buy what you are selling. Otherwise, just keep digging your hole.

[Gerhard28]

17. I don't share your absolute faith in polygraphs.

But I believe the mayor.

[safeinOhio]

23. My absolute faith is in that

anyone that refuses to take one is lying.

[Gerhard28]

33. "Anyone that refuses a polygraph is lying"?

That's a bit too strong, isn't it? Some states actually have laws banning the use of lie detectors in employment. Because it's an invasion of privacy to require one.

[safeinOhio]

37. My feeling is that in a noncriminal, he said, she said

case, there is no reason to not take one unless you are lying.

I've taken one in a civil case and passed. The other party refuse to take one and the judge, therefore felt she was not being truthful.

Trust me, it is no fun at all taking one, even if you are telling the truth. The tech told me afterward that almost 80% of those that take the test and plan on lying, admit the truth before the question is asked.

In this case, the mayor volunteered to take one and that tells me she is being truthful and if the Lt Governor refuses, I would say that is an indication that she has not been truthful.

[neverforget]

34. Polygraphs don't work

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201303/do-lie-detectors-work

Whereas the American Polygraph Association claims accuracy rates of over 90 percent, leading critics, such as David Lykken (1) put the polygraph accuracy rate at around 65 percent that is only slightly better than the 50 percent correct one would get by flipping a coin.

Interestingly, the polygraph is quite good at identifying liars but does no better than chance at detecting honest people according to Lykken. In other words, there is a 50:50 chance that a polygraph test will say an honest person is lying (a 50 percent “false positive” rate).

It is bad enough that polygraph tests are so indirect, prompting some researchers to look for more direct evidence of lying through analysis of brain scans. Another major weakness is that the test can be faked.

In the normal administration of the test, technicians rely upon responses that they know to be true to provide a baseline against which deceptive answers can be judged as an increase in nervous arousal. One of the most effective means of faking the test is to enhance arousal accompanying honest answers so that it is difficult to detect increased arousal theoretically accompanying lies.

The fact that the test can be fooled in this way also highlights the subjectivity with which examiners judge the results, for there is little standardization of procedures as to how much of a polygraph change indicates lying.

[safeinOhio]

38. Accuracy is dependent on

the skill of the examiner.

[neverforget]

41. It's intended to intimidate and the science doesn't back it up

In the normal administration of the test, technicians rely upon responses that they know to be true to provide a baseline against which deceptive answers can be judged as an increase in nervous arousal. One of the most effective means of faking the test is to enhance arousal accompanying honest answers so that it is difficult to detect increased arousal theoretically accompanying lies.

The fact that the test can be fooled in this way also highlights the subjectivity with which examiners judge the results, for there is little standardization of procedures as to how much of a polygraph change indicates lying.

Doubts about polygraph tests grew in the scientific community until the National Research Council – an organization of scientists – conducted a systematic evaluation and concluded that the test is lacking in scientific validity (2).

In 1998, the U.S. Supreme court acted to restrict their use in legal proceedings. In particular, defense attorneys can no longer use evidence that their client passed a polygraph test as establishing innocence of a crime.

Even as the polygraph test is discredited in legal proceedings, its use also declined in other settings and most employers are legally barred from using it as a technique to recruit honest employees. The government is one exception.

From a scientific perspective, there is no rationale for administering a polygraph test. So there is certainly no good reason to take one - if you can avoid it. Otherwise, you expose yourself to the nightmare of false self-incrimination.

[hrmjustin]

18. She could not answer questions and she had a deer in the head lights look to her.

[bucolic_frolic]

19. As they said in the Cold War Spook Biz

Agents without portfolio

Political powers surround themselves with them

as they try to push the envelope on every boundary

to maximize political advantages for themselves, their
associates, and their business friends

Was it Poindexter who said is best?

PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY

[deminks]

20. So, basically, the mayor's accusations are false because:

1. Their conversation was "mischaracterized". Really?

2. She said she liked me. Really? I have heard this one before.

3. Her accusations are "offensive to me." And I care because...?

4. The threats to withhold Sandy money 'were not said by me.' Ah, but were they delivered by you?


And, does Hoboken have their Sandy money? Hmmm?

[beachbum bob]

21. Seems like the issue for credibility falls right back into christie's and his Lt Govenor.

the attacks on the Hoboken Mayor to undercut her credibility has begun...excepts the Lt Govenor seems to forget...she herself is a POS and is under criminal investigations from a couple of years ago herself

seems like the issue for credibility falls right back into christie's and his Lt Govenor.

"a criminal investigation is under way involving his running mate, New Jersey Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno.



As a county sheriff in 2008, Guadagno made false statements to enable her chief officer to pocket nearly $85,000 a year in retirement pay while drawing an $87,500 annual salary. The double-dipping scheme first was reported by New Jersey Watchdog in 2010.

The state's investigation is assigned to the Attorney's General's Division of Criminal Justice, a unit where Guadagno once served as deputy director. Despite the apparent conflict, Christie has not appointed a special prosecutor.

A spokesman for Christie and Guadagno declined to comment. The Attorney General's Office did not respond to questions."
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/05/14/11690662-gov-christies-pension-issue-nj-probe-looks-at-running-mate-double-dipping?lite

[SunSeeker]

22. Tell it under oath to the U.S. Attorney, not just to reporters!

That slimy "denial" will fall apart under the most basic questioning by the U. S. Attorney.

[Beacool]

24. As I mentioned before, I live in Hoboken.

Yesterday after church, I was talking during hospitality with some of the people there. These are people who are in real estate, finance and one is a dean of a university. For what it's worth, they all believed that mayor Zimmer was telling the truth.

What would be the point of lying? If she was proven to have lied, it would ruin her political career and she would probably have to resign as mayor. She could also face criminal charges.

[Botany]

27. thanx for posting

Mayor Zimmer would be guilty of some kind of crime or crimes if she
lied about this to federal prosecutors yesterday. I saw her stand up to
CNN's Candy Crowley and she was very believable.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014702049


http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/01/nj_politics_roundup_christie_now_faces_hoboken_allegations_too.html

"But Zimmer stood by her story Sunday and said she was told the message came directly from
Christie. She also said she spoke with federal prosecutors about the issue."

[Beacool]

30. Thanks for the links.

Last edited Mon Jan 20, 2014, 07:16 PM - Edit history (1)

I don't know what will come out of the whole thing, but I hope that mayor Zimmer is vindicated.

Other Democratic mayors have said that things were made easier for them when they endorsed Christie (they got what they needed faster and without any complications). That was the reason why they had endorsed him. Although this is politics as usual, Christie and his people appear to have been particularly heavy handed.

[kiranon]

32. "Illogical"? Seemed quite logical to me. n/t

[Gothmog]

35. I doubt that she will make the same statement to the US Attorney

It is a crime to make a false statement to a federal official including a US Attorney http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—

(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;

shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.

(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to a party to a judicial proceeding, or that party’s counsel, for statements, representations, writings or documents submitted by such party or counsel to a judge or magistrate in that proceeding.

(c) With respect to any matter within the jurisdiction of the legislative branch, subsection (a) shall apply only to—

(1) administrative matters, including a claim for payment, a matter related to the procurement of property or services, personnel or employment practices, or support services, or a document required by law, rule, or regulation to be submitted to the Congress or any office or officer within the legislative branch; or

(2) any investigation or review, conducted pursuant to the authority of any committee, subcommittee, commission or office of the Congress, consistent with applicable rules of the House or Senate.

Remember, Scooter Libby was convicted of lying to FBI agents. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17479718/ns/politics/t/jurors-convict-libby-four-five-charges/

Libby was convicted of one count of obstruction, two counts of perjury and one count of lying to the FBI about how he learned Plame’s identity and whom he told. Prosecutors said he learned about Plame from Cheney and others, discussed her name with reporters and, fearing prosecution, made up a story to make those discussions seem innocuous.

The statements made Mayor Zimmer would carry the same penalty if she is found to have lied to the US Attorney

[louis-t]

36. Yeah, I listened to her "I THOUGHT we were FRIENDS!!1!11" speech.

I was not impressed with her fake sincerity.

[Herself]

43. I suspect the investigation will be drawn out, no stone left unturned

Is it just me or does it look like all the males are pushing the women out front to take the heat?

Kelly and Guadagno are two very stupid women if they believe these guys are going to save them.
They look like the scape goats, and heat shields to me.

At first I thought that C.C might squeak thru this when it was first reported, but more shoes are dropping. If Kelly turns states evidence to save her assets, heads will roll and the first one will be Guadagno. I will not be surprised if a democrat or two gets outed for accepting the terms of extortion.

Fema money for Rockefeller projects or campaign support is extortion.

One can delegate authority, but you can not delegate responsibility.
If Christi gets a save from this, we are in bigger trouble than we know.