Supreme Court to decide whether corporations can pray

[Galraedia]

Source: Raw Story

The Supreme Court is set to hear a challenge to a provision in Obamacare which requires that insurers cover preventive health care without co-pays.

Three private companies — Hobby Lobby, Conestoga Wood, and Autocam – are arguing that the inclusion of contraceptive coverage in the basket of minimum benefits required by the law violates their owners’ First Amendment right to exercise their religion as they see fit.

The Constitutional Accountability Center (CAC), which filed an amicus brief in these cases, has an issue brief about the litigation. They note that actual religious organizations are already exempt from the law, meaning, “non-profit organizations whose ‘purpose’ is ‘the inculcation of religious values,’ and which ‘primarily employ[] persons who share the religious tenets of the organization,’ and ‘serve[] primarily persons who share the religious tenets of the organization.’” But…

Hobby Lobby, Conestoga Wood, and Autocam fail each and every aspect of this definition. Hobby Lobby is a chain of more than 500 arts and crafts stores employing approximately 13,000 full time employees across the country; Conestoga Wood manufactures wood products, and employs approximately 950 persons; Autocam is an auto manufacturer, which employs 1,500 employees in fourteen facilities worldwide. Each was organized to serve secular, not religious, purposes, and hire employees and serve customers of many different faiths.

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/24/supreme-court-to-decide-whether-corporations-can-pray/

[Mnemosyne]

1. Isn't that spelled wrong? Shouldn't it be prey? Oh wait, did that one already. nt

[dbackjon]

16. LOL that was going to be MY POST

[valerief]

18. Bingo! nt

[Doremus]

2. I was planning a trip to Hobby Lobby but will buy elsewhere after reading this. Thanks.

[SecularMotion]

3. SCOTUS’ Decision on Birth Control Benefit Could Affect All Workers’ Rights

While conservatives took some hits in public opinion by attacking Sandra Fluke in a sexualized fashion—even going so far, as Rush Limbaugh did, to call her a “slut” and demand that she perform in porn in order to get insurance coverage for contraception—the entire spectacle did manage to succeed in one regard. The right did successfully plant the idea that the battle over the birth control benefit in the Affordable Care Act was one of religion vs. sex, which inevitably leads many people to think that as long as they aren’t sexually active women of reproductive age, then it doesn’t affect them personally. But the ugly reality is that this entire battle is about something bigger, something more terrifying. It’s about private businesses and corporations creating a legal loophole that allows them to opt out of an array of worker protections and other regulations, all by citing “religious freedom” as a reason. With the birth control benefit heading for the Supreme Court, we should all be worried about the possibility of a blanket decision that allows your boss to pretty much do whatever he likes, as long as he tacks “because Jesus said so” at the end of his decision.

What’s at stake is this: The argument in court isn’t “ew, sex is bad, naughty, naughty!,” though that is clearly the argument being used in the court of public opinion. In real court, the argument is that businesses have a right to opt out of any law they claim conflicts with their religious beliefs. From some of the coverage of a successful suit arguing just that in Florida:

U.S. District Judge Elizabeth A. Kovachevich issued a 37-page decision late Tuesday afternoon declaring corporations do have First Amendment freedom of religion protections.

“Any action that debases, or cheapens, the intrinsic value of the tenet of religious tolerance that is entrenched in the Constitution cannot stand,” Kovachevich wrote.

The notion that a business, which has no brain, can have a “belief” is, of course, preposterous. Unfortunately, the conservative-controlled Supreme Court is open to preposterous arguments, so long as the conclusion is that corporations can do whatever they want. The 2010 Citizens United decision, for instance, eliminated all sorts of campaign finance restriction on corporations on the grounds that they are the same thing as “persons,” and thus have “freedom of speech” guaranteed by the Constitution. It’s not a big leap to suggest that this same logic will extend to religion, with corporations being deemed “persons” that can hold religious beliefs. Do corporations pray? Do they go to church? No, of course not, but they don’t live and die like people, either, and that didn’t stop the Supreme Court from deciding to treat them as people.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/09/30/scotuss-decision-on-the-birth-control-benefit-could-affect-all-workers-rights/

[cap]

7. So Quakers and Mennonites don't have to fund

The defense dept?

Oh. Or is the military something special?

How about Catholics and the electric chair?

Or scientologists and Christian scientists don't have to help find medical care?

[DhhD]

8. If they become religious institutions, then they will be exempt from paying taxes and the people

working there will not have to pay taxes as it is volunteer work with reimbursement. The domino effect will be disastrous. A Theocracy is born.

[KansDem]

4. Corporate Jesus?

[Not Sure]

20. I worked for a company once

where we moved into a larger office building to accommodate some recent growth. The manager of the operation decorated his new office with a painting similar to this. I threw up in my mouth a little bit. I also quit a couple months later (for different reasons, but the dumbass office manager figured heavily into the decision).

[Missn-Hitch]

29. Great pic.

It reminds me of a picture in one of my RW relatives home. Similar style, same Jesus but he had his arms reaching forward, head bowed and in the background a city skyline with smokestacks. I think of it often.

[okaawhatever]

5. Oh, so now they're on board with separation of church and state. nt

[Xipe Totec]

6. Maybe it's a typo - we all know corporations can prey. nt

[CarrieLynne]

9. this isnt about birth control

its about hindering the ACA...again...

[Burf-_-]

10. VERY IMPORTANT CASE

Even More: http://www.scotusblog.com/2013/10/hobby-lobby-supports-review/

My bet is with all the recent challenges to the ACA, Kennedy is the swing vote, he's been weary of ruling for the extreme right wing lately, and Hobby and the rest of these chump corporations arguing this crap can suck it, as they will not see a ruling in their favor.

[lark]

12. Yes, it all comes down to Kennedy

He's a wild card and is not to be trusted. We can hope and pray however that he actually will have a clue and not vote to turn us into a theocracy.

[noiretextatique]

11. WTF does religion have to do with reproductive healthcare

this fucking stupid country just makes me want to scream.

[icymist]

13. Hey corporations! This would work both ways!

Here's an example:
As a condition to working in any of my bookstores, all employees will now be required to sacrifice to the Goddess. This is the religion of the corporation under which you have been hired to work for and thus all employees shall start their workday by sacrificing to the Goddess in general, and then to the special shrine set up for the bookstore itself, known as the Home Goddess. Instruction pamphlets will be handed out to aid those who are ignorant of the True Religion in their morning and evening sacrifices. Blessed Be and have a nice day.
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In case this is still needed:

[Burf-_-]

14. Allah agree's

Yeah imagine how many Islamic extremists agree with Hobby Lobby and Conestoga.

American Taliban Much ?

[Jack Rabbit]

15. Watch out. Some corporate lawyer (probably a Yalie) will get an idea

Make the Goddess the corporate religion and require all employers to sacrifice their wages to Her daily. Management will receive the sacrifices and, since they are priests and priestesses to the Goddess, they will know best how to spend to please Her. They will, of course, spend it a bidder mansion, a car elevator and bribes campaign contributions to candidates for public office.

[W T F]

17. So If you're a Jehovah Witness you should be able to deny heath care coverage that includes.........

Blood Transfusions???????????

[Thucydides]

19. I do not get it, and I have read the replies.....

What are they saying, please some help in english.

[rug]

22. The suit is about whether corporations can claim a religious exemption.

[Thucydides]

23. Thank you, now I understand.

So corporations ruled people by SCOTUS is not good enough?

[Igel]

26. Same sort of issue.

If you think that birth control is wrong for religious reasons--the exactly rationale being probably beside the point--then forcing you to pay for somebody else's would be seen as violating your personal beliefs.

Think of it as parallel to conscientious-objector status for the draft. It's making you do something that you find reprehensible on moral/religious grounds.

Does this work with corporations which are controlled by a small number of people, so that the corporation "has" a religious belief--that of the owners? Or does the fact that those people have a legal boundary between them void their right to govern the company in a way that they find acceptable to their moral/religious code? It's not a question of choosing between employee rights to health-care versus employer rights to freedom of worship. The latter is a Constitutional right, the former is a statute enacted by Congress and resting with Congress' Constitutional authority to regulate trade and to tax income. The question is whether this is really a 1st Amendment issue.


Most of the counterexamples--sacrificing to the Goddess, for example--miss the distinction having the company not do something and having the company require something. There's a large difference between saying, "I won't pay for my employees' X" and saying, "My employees must do X." One defends one's own behavior, even if it means you don't do something to/for somebody else and it causes them a hardship; the other affirmatively imposes your views on others and compels actions.

Once had an employer that believed you should trust God for healing, however they drew the line at accidents. Pray for the flu or for cancer? Sure. But a compound fracture? Please, go and have it set and get sutures/stitches for the giant tear in your tissue and skin. They were willing to spring for that kind of accident insurance, but it wasn't available for the size pool we had. Payouts were too stochastic for actuaries to make reasonable predictions. If we wanted to get more comprehensive insurance, then sure, they'd contribute just for the accident insurance but no insurance company that we employees contacted would separate out the premiums that way. So no employer-paid insurance at all.

[rug]

21. They created this problem when they decided corporations could speak.

[meow2u3]

24. Let us prey

That would be the ideal corporate prayer.

[rgbecker]

25. Does this mean Corporations can go to Hell?

Sooner the better.

[cstanleytech]

27. Cant the government just require all insurance companies to provide it in order to recieve

federal dollars?

[Ghost Dog]

28. What?

[center] [/center]