ND white supremacist disrupts council meeting

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

ND white supremacist disrupts council meeting
| October 20, 2013 | Updated: October 20, 2013 12:51pm

LEITH, N.D. (AP) — Authorities say a white supremacist who moved to the small southwestern North Dakota town of Leith two weeks ago was forcibly removed from a city council meeting by law enforcement officers.

City councilman Lee Cook tells the Bismarck Tribune (http://bit.ly/1b3jnMf) that 29-year-old Kynan Dutton was confrontational, profane and was making racist comments to people at the Friday night meeting.

"I've never heard insults so profane, especially with kids present. It was way off the scope," Cook said.

Grant County Sheriff Steve Bay said Dutton "was pretty drunk" and was taken to his residence, owned by Craig Cobb who has been buying property in Leith and recruiting others with white supremacist views to come there so he can create a voting majority, take control of the town and turn it into an all-white enclave.


Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/article/ND-white-supremacist-disrupts-council-meeting-4911120.php?cmpid=hpts

[IrishAyes]

1. Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

If Dutton, Cobb and Co. push things too far, they could find out that other people know how to shove back, and shove back hard. Would thrill my little heart to see it happen, too, because these trogs don't understand any other language. You know, the kind of language requiring coherent speech.

[busterbrown]

2. This Pig was “taken to his residence”?

If he was a environmentalist protesting fracking.. He would have spent the night and perhaps day in Jail!!

And he would have been roughly handled....to say the least..

[IrishAyes]

3. Sooner or later around the klanners, there will be blood. Count on it.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

4. Bet he claims the be a good Christian too.

[arcane1]

5. I thought that town sounded familiar, it's where those nuts want to take over and run the place.

Off to a good start, huh?

[ripcord]

49. In a way I support them

I would rather have them in one place than spreading their crap all over, now if they would just start their own town away from everything else, like maybe a deserted island.

[jberryhill]

6. What did he do which was illegal?

[IdaBriggs]

7. Public intoxication. Disturbing the peace. (nt)

[jberryhill]

8. He was charged with those things?

How did they test his BAC, and what is "disturbing" about speaking at a meeting?

[arcane1]

10. Being "confrontational, profane and was making racist comments to people" can get you kicked out

I don't see where he was charged with anything.

Should there be no rules or limits to how one can behave at a council meeting? No decorum, at least?

[jberryhill]

19. There are many on DU

Who believe that any public meeting is an occasion at which anyone may shout what they want at any time.

[iamthebandfanman]

24. and their causes

will always be as marginal as this mans.

:p


while you can have the debate/discussion on whether he was within his rights...
whether or not his behavior is socially acceptable isn't really so much up for such conversation..

[jberryhill]

30. Protesting war is "marginal" now?

[pscot]

25. Many? Then a link should be easy.

Provide an example. Link to a thread.

[steve2470]

29. The fact remains, Jberryhill, that Codepink and other leftists DO get ejected from those meetings

We as a society can't allow any and all protestors/disruptors scream and yell what they want as long as they want and still conduct business. Yes, I backed what Codepink was trying to accomplish but I wasn't surprised in the least when they were ejected.

[Caretha]

43. You are so

transparent it isn't even funny. Being a public drunk, disrupting the peace, acting like a goat in public...

Hey....second thought...was this your brother?

[Red Mountain]

11. Good community policing, IMHO.

I don't need a test to determine when someone is drunk. Nor do I need an act of Congress to tell me what is disruptive and what is productive. Hate speech in public can and will start a fight. Not in the public interest to let it continue unchecked.

He should consider it a warning.

I don't think it means the police are taking his side by not throwing the book at him if you're going to go there.

This town is going to have plenty more problems just like this if the 'settlement' grows.

I suspect the local folks will begin to lose their patience at some point.

[jberryhill]

21. "Hate speech" - is that illegal now?

[IdaBriggs]

12. Did you read the post?

He was quote "pretty drunk" and using profanity. That is not how one behaves at a public meeting if one is participating in it (although drunk people who are disturbing the peace commonly behave this way).

His wife and three of the children have left the area, with some implied issues of abuse going on.

Not sure what your issue is - it is a small town, and they didn't arrest him; they just took his drunk butt home for him to sleep it off.

[jberryhill]

20. Do you read DU?

So, just so we are clear the next time the issue comes up.

At any public meeting, it is not okay for anyone to say what they want, eh?

"Using profanity" - is that illegal now?

[Callmecrazy]

33. Speaking like that at a union meeting will get you tossed...

Many meetings follow Robert's Rules of Order. My local did.

[jberryhill]

42. That is also a private organization

[IdaBriggs]

36. To repeat: Drunk. Inappropriate language in a public place.

I wasn't there. Sounds like it was handled appropriately. Not sure why you are trying to pick a fight with me. Not interested in playing. Bye for now.

[kestrel91316]

9. So, you support neo-nazis who disrupt public meetings and sling racist epithets?

Gotcha.

Not sure why you are here. We have ZERO tolerance for neo-nazis/KKK on DU.

[jberryhill]

18. Very funny

You know there is a First Amendment issue when someone is thrown out of a meeting for saying stuff.

[COLGATE4]

27. I was just wondering

if you ever heard of a thing called the 'Constitution'? It's a fascinating document.

[jberryhill]

32. But he used "profanity" and "epithets"

Surely it cannot be legal to use profanity and epithets?

[MrMickeysMom]

48. There is one sure way to answer your question whether it's illegal...

Go to the state where this township, municipality or city (they are classified specifically) and find out whether there is an ordinance that clarifies conduct of the public when expressing their first amendment rights.

Many municipalities have such ordinances and expect both sides of the dais to conduct their behavior with respect. You cross the line, then you break the law, be it based on what the state expresses in their code or the municipality under their home rule.

Good municipalities would outlaw what this guy said, which I would agree constitutes "hate speech".

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. You jest. Disrupting a meeting is not free speech, it is disruption. Public meeting or closed.

Disruption is not protected speech.

In a meeting, the chairperson has the duty to control time and order of recognition. That includes shutting down speakers and ejecting them if they do not recognize the chair.

[kestrel91316]

45. He's a smartass who apparently can't refrain from carrying water for the neo-nazis.

[jberryhill]

52. Oh, yes, I'm a Nazi now

When Code Pink disrupts a hearing and is removed, is that Free Speech?

When Occupy camps out in an urban park, is that Free Speech?

Or does being disruptive as a form of expression only apply one way?

[jberryhill]

60. Does that apply here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023905970

[Bernardo de La Paz]

62. Nothing and everything applies to a vague unadorned link

Does that apply here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023905970

What applies to what regarding that link?

Are you wanting to call the woman a <who-knows-what>? Are you saying free speech applies in private property? Is anyone claiming there is a criticism of the government? Was there a public civic meeting in the restaurant? Is the CEO being denied free speech? Is anyone being denied free speech? Did they get to speak their piece? Is there libel in the article? Slander in the dialogue? Is the price of hamburgers too low?

Hunh?

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

40. First Amendment applys to

criticism of the federal government. It does not give license to saying whatever you feel like............

[jberryhill]

41. Now that's a new one

I will remember that porn is "criticism of the federal government" then.

No criticism of state government under the First Amendment, yes?

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

44. Well

I suppose you are right in that your examples are common everyday occurrences.

This from the Cornell Law School (only because its one of the first when you google First Amendment Rights)
The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government. The Supreme Court requires the government to provide substantial justification for the interference with the right of free speech where it attempts to regulate the content of the speech. A less stringent test is applied for content-neutral legislation. The Supreme Court has also recognized that the government may prohibit some speech that may cause a breach of the peace or cause violence. For more on unprotected and less protected categories of speech see advocacy of illegal action, fighting words, commercial speech and obscenity. The right to free speech includes other mediums of expression that communicate a message. The level of protection speech receives also depends on the forum in which it takes place.

Despite popular misunderstanding the right to freedom of the press guaranteed by the first amendment is not very different from the right to freedom of speech. It allows an individual to express themselves through publication and dissemination. It is part of the constitutional protection of freedom of expression. It does not afford members of the media any special rights or privileges not afforded to citizens in general.

So it would seem the bolded sentence (my editing) says you can't neccessarily say whatever you want.....

[Bernardo de La Paz]

46. Wrong. Learn about the First Amendment, for the first time.

Or post a credible link that supports your bald over-broad statement. You can't. Run along now and go study.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

51. Are you replying to me friend?

Would you talk like that to me in a face to face conversation?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

53. Yes, you.

But we have not yet established that we are "friends", so that tag is just as insincere as "honey" or "dear" between strangers.

To answer your second question, it is important to distinguish that a face to face conversation is generally between people who are at least "acquaintances" who have been introduced to one another. It is different from, for example, a debate in a large raucous crowd where people might be shouting out remarks throughout a large room and not even see who is originating the remark they are replying to. The latter situation is more akin to internet forums.

If in a face to face conversation, as acquaintances, you had made as naive a statement as you did I probably would not have used exactly those words, but I would have been contemptuous of the statement and have asked you how you could have possibly arrived at your bizarre position.

If we had not been made acquaintances and the face to face conversation had an undercurrent of belligerence, I would have been very careful about limiting the reply strictly to the remark and to the dry facts.

If we actually were friends, then in a face to face conversation I would have used very similar wording to the reply I made here, because actual friends josh and tease each other.

If you are going to get publicly huffy about the level of decorum in posts like this on DU, then I would expect you to make frequent replies publicly complaining when people use "shit", "fuck", "motherfucker", and such, that are so casually prevalent on DU. But I don't see you doing so.

However, after all is said and done, I do apologize for not restricting my contempt for the remarks to the remarks and allowing the reply to stray a bit into the personal.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

55. Welcome to my ignore list

It is possible I have misstated my position by saying freedom of speech versus freedom of the press. But this forum is, I think, for people who more or less are on the same side of the issues facing our nation. What you posted came across as arrogant and frankly hostile. My statement was hardly naive, that is an assumption on your part. It could have been, as I said, a mistake, which I'm sure you've have made once or twice. Have a nice life.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

56. Public announcements of "ignore" are funny, as if it were some kind of punishment. nt

[LanternWaste]

59. Without qualifiers, do I then have a first amendment right to simply disrupt, or no?

"thrown out of a meeting for saying stuff....


Does that apply to disruption, too? Without qualifiers, do I then have a first amendment right to simply disrupt, or no?

[jberryhill]

61. Many people believe it depends on whether you agree with the speaker

Here is a DU thread about someone who came uninvited to a private event to confront the president of McDonalds:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023905970

[Posteritatis]

23. People regularly get ejected from town council meetings for being belligerent and disruptive.

You can't possibly be so obtuse as to think otherwise - or to confuse that with treating ejection-worthy behaviour as a criminal act.

[freshwest]

58. Allowing drunks to disrupt we denies the first amendment rights of others.

You can't have democratic process run by outliers. It was the right thing to do, and people are sick of the people who feel entitled to pull shenanigans and waste the time of all who attend meetings. It's not authoritarian to enforce rules when confronted by brownshirts like this guy and his pals. It's hard to make time and get to and from the many meetings that go on, many are working and tired when they get there. Those who attempt to use the venue for ego boosting should be tossed out.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

38. He wasn't charged with a crime, yet.

[Bette Noir]

13. Let the racist assholes and RW gun nuts have their havens in Idaho.

Having them all in one place will make it easier to take them out.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

39. Sure. We volunteer your town and your children and your property values for the experiment.

Thank you for volunteering to go first.

Oh, you don't live in Idaho? Kind of you to give away somebody else's town. Not.

[n2doc]

14. That'll surely win him major public support

[Posteritatis]

16. Their plan is to get enough of his buddies there to disenfranchise the locals.

They're trying to take the place over for themselves.

[Posteritatis]

15. "Nazi flags are flying in front of the house, which has no water or sewer.." Lovely. (nt)

[jsr]

17. But he's proud of his melanin - his major life accomplishment.

[yourout]

28. Sounds like a place that would have shown up on an X-Files episode back in the day.

[delta17]

31. Not a big surprise.

These groups attract people who have failed miserably. I saw an interview with a few low level white power types once. It was actually kind of sad, they all came from abusive homes. Not that that excuses anything, but it seemed like they were desperate to belong somewhere.

[riversedge]

26. Looks like his wife --along with 3 kids have left for a shelter....

As best as I understand it:

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/white-supremacist-disrupts-leith-council-meeting/article_c019191e-38ef-11e3-b769-0019bb2963f4.html

[Turbineguy]

34. 29 years old.

That's what watching Fox news for half your life does to you.

[nolabear]

35. Oregon to North Dakota, huh. I'll be darned.

[DeSwiss]

47. K&R

[MrMickeysMom]

50. Just looked up Leith, ND... population 16...

1.25 square miles, and white supremacist dunderheads like Cobb would love to buy up the land, and change the name of it to "Cobbsville".

This is what happens when America no longer has leaders interested in providing people meaningful employment. Towns like Leith are easy targets for these little shit-fucks who fly their Nazi flags and are fugitives from out of state (Canada, from what it seems)... The median income in Leith is around $12 k per year...

So, if the economy continues with no hope in sight for people to make decent livings, this white supremacist just might find his little kingdom.

Wonder how Cobb makes his money? Likely, it's not legal, and probably inflates meth addled denizens to a town that has a few more problems on its hands.

Stay classy, Stormfront.

[Snake Plissken]

57. Every now and then you run across a bagger who wanders from the script and tells the truth

this is one of those times, a teabagger wqas being completely honest about his beliefs