Edward Snowden Speaks Out Against NSA "Dragnet Mass Surveillance"

[Indi Guy]

Source: Democracy Now



AMY GOODMAN: Today, in a Democracy Now! special, we spend the hour with four former U.S. intelligence officials—all whistleblowers themselves—who have just returned from visiting National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden in Russia. They are former CIA analyst Ray McGovern, former FBI agent Coleen Rowley, former National Security Agency senior executive Thomas Drake and his lawyer, former U.S. Justice Department ethics adviser Jesselyn Radack.

Last week, the group became the first Americans known to meet with former NSA contractor Snowden in Russia since he was granted temporary asylum there in August. On Wednesday, the group presented Edward Snowden with an award from the Sam Adams Associates for Integrity in Intelligence. After the award ceremony, Snowden spoke about the perils of the mass surveillance state.


EDWARD SNOWDEN: These programs don’t make us more safe. They hurt our economy. They hurt our country. They limit our ability to speak and think and to live and be creative, to have relationships, to associate freely. And they’re going—this doesn’t make us more safe; it makes us less safe, puts us at risk of coming into conflict with our own government. And there’s a far cry between legal programs, legitimate spying, legitimate law enforcement, where it’s targeted, it’s based on reasonable suspicion and individualized suspicion and warranted action, and sort of dragnet mass surveillance that puts entire populations under sort of an eye that sees everything, even when it’s not needed.

This is about a trend in the relationship between the governing and the governed in America that is coming increasingly into conflict with what we expect as a free and democratic people. If we can’t understand the policies and programs of our government, we cannot grant our consent in regulating them. As someone very clever said recently, we don’t have an oversight problem, we have an undersight problem. And it’s led us to a point in our relationship with the government where we have an executive, a Department of Justice, that’s unwilling to prosecute high officials who lied to Congress and the country on camera, but they’ll stop at nothing to persecute someone who told them the truth...

Read more: http://www.democracynow.org/2013/10/14/edward_snowden_speaks_out_against_nsa

[cosmicone]

1. Great speech.

Go Snowden !!

[JonLP24]

2. How right he is

"but they’ll stop at nothing to persecute someone who told them the truth..."

[Indi Guy]

3. And all the government apologists here will...

...resort to character assassination of Snowden, rather than address the logic of his arguments.

[MADem]

11. What logic?

Anyone who thinks that the Chinese and Russians aren't on the same game is living in a fantasy world.

I'm sure Eddie is just loving the "freedoms" he has in Mother Russia. I imagine he can't fart without Pootie's KGB knowing if he's farting through flannel or silk.

[Indi Guy]

15. Wow!!!

If you think it's OK for us to live under the same surveillance systems as China & Russia -- what makes you any better than your opinion of Snowden???

[MADem]

16. Wow!!!

Who said that it's "OK" and who said the surveillance systems were "the same?" Not me.

But hey, if it's good enough for Eddie, it ought to be good enough for everyone else, shouldn't it? He's a happy little camper in Mother Russia, now, isn't he, in his expensive but ill fitting suit!

[Indi Guy]

17. So, you're resigned to the inevitability...

...of America being under a communist style surveillance apparatus?

[MADem]

24. No, not at all. nt

[ehcross]

30. Neither China nor Russia know how Americans felt that 9/11.

You don't know, and you don't want to know how Russians live, and to what stresses they are still subject, even without commiting a crime. Same, or worse, goes to the Chinese. Surveillance? Neither wants to discuss it openly.

Snowden had all he needed in his country. He surely had a satisfying and well paid job. He also understood the nature and purpose of his job, and properly complied with his duties and obligations.

Snowden understood everything his contractor was doing and the purpose of his job. He was quite clear about the confidentiality of his post. He was obviously well paid, but somewhere along the road he changed his mind, and decided to expose his confidential work to the public. Whether he did this out of a sense of guilt or by having identified other activities, perhaps better rewarded, has not been revealed. But Snowden acted with full knowledge of the damage he was causing his motherland.

There has been substantial outrage at Snowden's revelations and eventual asylum in Russia, and Snowden has made sure wide press coverage shows the "enormity of NSA's violations of privacy rights in the United States."

[mallard]

31. Your limited sense of 'outrage' makes one wonder ...

Are you with one of these agencies yourself?

[ronnie624]

22. The Chinese and Russians are "on the same game"?

I'm guessing that China and Russia are your perceived enemies (kind of like the neocons and other paranoid kooks who have way too much influence over our foreign policies), and everyone is supposed to "know" why that is.

[MADem]

23. You'd be better off not telling me about your guesses.

They're simplistic and lacking in maturity. Further, you've not been right yet.

And comparing me to "neocons and other paranoid kooks" is rude, disruptive, hurtful, etc.

Not very civil conduct on your part at all--but again, this isn't the first time you've spoken in a rude and uncivil fashion to me, and I doubt it will be the last.

[ronnie624]

28. I didn't think you would be able to elaborate on your initial blither.

As far as comparing your seriously flawed views on US foreign policy to those of your average neocon: if the shoe fits...

[MADem]

29. More rudeness--now any opinion not yours is "blither."

Comparing me to a neocon is rude, hostile, uncivil, as well as untrue.

[SoapBox]

4. Oh shut the fuck up Traitor Eddie.

oh, sorry, COMRADE Eddie...how's that being a RUSSIAN work'n out for ya.

[Indi Guy]

5. (As if on cue) I refer you to post #3

[Township75]

6. I remember how loudly you shouted that at people upset at warrentless wiretapping during the Bush

years....keep up the good work!

[PSPS]

7. I konw! Plus, he has a weird girlfriend or something too!

Let's abolish the 4th amendment to teach him a lesson!!1!1

[Indi Guy]

9. That girlfriend thing...

...is a problem for the government (will make it harder to turn him into a transexual in the press).

[idwiyo]

10. There is something wrong with being Russian? Bigotry much?

[2banon]

13. I think you forgot the "sarcasm" thingy, right?

surely, a fellow DU'r has the socio-political acumen to avoid engaging in classic john bircher red baiting rhetoric?

Right?

[Nanjing to Seoul]

18. Why do you hate the Constitution so much? Flame me if you want, but I still have a post-1776

mindset, not a post 9/11 mindset. . .and I don't care about his motives. . .what he did was the right thing to do.

Obama campaigned on open government and his government commits domestic spying without warrants, in direct violation of the 4th amendment.

But I know. . .freedom is passe in the United States of Police. Terra! Terra! Terra! Duct Tape and plastic sheeting. . .the Code Orange terror alert just made me go Code Brown in my pants!

[Indi Guy]

21. Well said.

In particular I like the post 1776 reference. The next time someone pulls the "post 9/11 world" thing on me, I'll remind them that we live in a post 1776 world.

[idwiyo]

8. k&r

[Blue_Tires]

12. Snowden is still missing the forest for the trees

And there’s a far cry between legal programs, legitimate spying, legitimate law enforcement, where it’s targeted, it’s based on reasonable suspicion and individualized suspicion and warranted action, and sort of dragnet mass surveillance that puts entire populations under sort of an eye that sees everything, even when it’s not needed.

Why doesn't he get it? There's NO way whatsoever to rein in or control the "system" to some mythical point where it just spies on the people who "deserve" to get spied on...That's just fantasyland because any intelligence system is searching for faster/better/more efficient ways to gather and process information, and no matter how specific and tightly defined the conditions are for warranted spying, those in charge will always worry about terrorists/criminals slipping through the cracks...Intelligence operations will always always always evolve sooner or later towards the "dragnet" solution, no matter how tightly they are regulated...The only "fix" for the NSA is complete elimination, imo

You can call me an absolutist if you wish, but I can't reconcile people saying spying/drones/hacking/surveillance/covert warfare is perfectly OK for "enemies abroad" but have the nerve to be shocked when those methods are applied to our allies or ourselves...

[okieinpain]

14. the thing is that the people demand the mass searching for terrorist. if

another 9-11 happens. the people will want heads on sticks. so yeas this president and future presidents are going to green light these types of illegal intrusive mass data grabs. I'm not at all surprised and I suspect it will continue and will get worse.

[pam4water]

19. By people do you mean Faux New?

[Indi Guy]

20. Thanks for a thoughtful objection...

...to Snowden's arguments. I don't, however, share you pessimism. I don't think it's inevitable that our government's surveillance system degenerates into big brother. It is "our" government after all; and at the end of the day, we will have the last word.

[ehcross]

25. The goverment's surveillance system should be controlled but never abandoned.

Edward Snowden jumped on a platform of theoretical considerations about how surveillance should be limited. But he disregarded the tough realities of a program that is intended to search, detect, and identify threats to national security. Actually a negation of the inputs he himself must have offered the Project, and actually used himself to help run the program. Snowden must have had internal conflicts that somehow drove him to a decision to which he eventually arrived.

Betraying one's country after having offered total loyalty, and then deciding to dump all principles is a sad conduct indeed.

I dare to predict that this young man will some day lose his mind and seek an end to his internal conflict.

[Indi Guy]

33. We fundamentally disagree.

While I completely agree with your first statement, in my estimation Snowden defended his country by calling out an agency which betrayed our constitution (the law of the land) and country -- and is still doing so with impunity.

[ehcross]

26. Edward Snowden Speaks Out Against NSA "Dragnet Mass Surveillance"

"These programs don't make us more safe". They hurt our economy. They hurt our country. They limit our ability to speak and think and to live and be creative, to have relationships, to associate freely".

What kind of bullshit is this? Snowden was a career NSA contractor. He was trained and understood perfectly well what his duties were and what objectives his work had in the effort of protecting the United States in the post-9/11 era. He understood perfectly well what his training and his job were all about. His posterior objections to the fulfillment of his duties has no logic and could only be explained by his having found a chance to gain protagonism by showing his other face.

Snowden betrayed his country while being a contractor on specific duties with the National Security Agency. For this he certainly received a juicy sum from the government he eventually betrayed, and continues to betray, to the shame of his country.

[Indi Guy]

34. If you worked for the government...

...would you feel bound to obey illegal orders?

[Sunlei]

27. they gave him an award? looks very odd all 'former' FBI,CIA, National Security, US Justice dept.

all former eh?

[shubham]

32. Thanks

Nice sharing, Thanks for share with us.....