German home-schoolers ask US high court for asylum

[alp227]

Source: AP

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — A couple who fled Germany in order to home-school their children is asking the U.S. Supreme Court to grant them asylum.

Uwe (OO-vuh) and Hannelore Romeike (roh-MEYE-kee) moved to Morristown, Tenn., in 2008 after facing escalating fines and threats for refusing to send their children to a state-approved school, as required by German law.

The Romeikes claim they are being persecuted because they want to raise their children in accordance with their Christian beliefs.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/german-home-schoolers-ask-us-high-court-asylum

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Court denies US asylum to German home-schoolers (AP report from May 15)



The Romeike family was profiled in the NY Times in March 2010. The photo above accompanied the article. Excerpt from the article:

...the Romeikes, who are devout Christians, said they wanted their children to learn in a different environment. Mr. Romeike (pronounced ro-MY-kuh), 38, a soft-spoken piano teacher whose young children greet strangers at the front door with a startlingly grown-up politeness, said the unruly behavior of students that was allowed by many teachers had kept his children from learning. The stories in German readers, in which devils, witches and disobedient children are often portrayed as heroes, set bad examples, he said.

“I don’t expect the school to teach about the Bible,” he said, but “part of education should be character-building.”

In Germany, he said, home-schoolers are seen as “fundamentalist religious nuts who don’t want their children to get to know what is going on in the world, who want to protect them from everything.”

The article also reported that an immigration court granted the family asylum:

In a harshly worded decision, the judge, Lawrence O. Burman, denounced the German policy, calling it “utterly repellent to everything we believe as Americans,” and expressed shock at the heavy fines and other penalties the government has levied on home-schooling parents, including taking custody of their children.

Describing home-schoolers as a distinct group of people who have a “principled opposition to government policy,” he ruled that the Romeikes would face persecution both because of their religious beliefs and because they were “members of a particular social group,” two standards for granting asylum.

As much of a 1st Amendment absolutist I am, I personally find the Romeikes' issues "first world problems" and feel there are enough evangelical freaks in this country that we don't need every other countries' fundies. When searching for sources beyond the AP for this story all I could find were right wing Christian sites like WorldNetDaily. I wonder if the right wing media would be rallying behind this family if the family were MUSLIM?

On the other hand, I can't defend the German homeschooling policy, based on what I've read about it in the NY Times link provided.

German news site Der Spiegel has also reported on the Romeike case:
Religious Persecution? German Home-Schoolers Granted Political Asylum in US
Political Asylum for Homeschoolers: Evangelical Christians Celebrate Victory over 'Embarrassed' Germany

This secular blogger debunks many of the right wing lies about the Romeike family case.

[NYC_SKP]

1. I see no reason to deny this family asylum. nt

[Kelvin Mace]

5. You need to read the article and links

They are not being "persecuted" by the German government because they are Christain, they are being threatened with prosecution because Germany does NOT allow home schooling. This law applies to everyone, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Atheist, worshipers of Thor, etc.

Germany is the only country with this law, and if they didn't like it, they could have gone to any other EU country and had no problem. They came to the U.S. at the behest of Christian home school advocates who wanted a federal case to pursue.

An excellent rebuttal of the rightwing claims about this issue can be found at:

http://happy_as_kings.typepad.com/happy_as_kings/2013/03/germany-and-homeschooling-fact-checking-the-romeike-situation.html

[Taverner]

8. +1000. I like the law, personally

[SunSeeker]

24. I couldn't agree more. I know two fundy home-schooler families.

IMO, what they are doing to their kids is child abuse. These nutbags are not trained to educate children, and even if they were, they are not teaching what these kids should learn to be well-rounded adults, let alone get into a good college.

[awoke_in_2003]

16. Yep...

and I wish I could emigrate to Germany, where my grandchildren could get a good education.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. How about the lack of persecution?

Do you really think that compulsory schooling is persecution?

[NYC_SKP]

9. For me it's a question of consistency.

We hear a lot regarding amnesty for some groups, without regard to any particular persecution.

And then we hear resistance to this family for not wanting to live under the strict educational rules of their country of origin.

I wonder why there's a distinction, maybe there isn't one, but I don't see as much scrutiny applied to others.

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. 'amnesty' is not 'asylum'

I don't know which the 'some groups' you are talking about are (Cubans, perhaps?); but "we give asylum so often, we may as well give it to anyone" is not a good argument.

From a practical point of view, this family already had the right of abode in Austria (German-speaking, right next door to Germany, allows home-schooling) or the UK (also allows home-schooling), or other EU countries. Coming to the USA was a political stunt for the far right Christian fundamentalists.

[NYC_SKP]

33. I'm playing devil's advocate here. Is far left OK but far right not OK?

If their country of origin is next door to a save haven does that exclude them from eligibility?

On the matter of amnesty, asylum, and other extraordinary forms of immigration including H1 Visas, I'm always curious because I see a lot from Libertarians go on about open borders and I see a lot, too, from factions on the left about similar ideas, yet there always seem to be exceptions.

I don't have the backstory on this one, just asking questions.

And no, I am not talking about Cubans and I have no idea where that thought came from.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. I suggested Cubans because I thought that was where a lot of those granted asylum in the US

come from, especially for abstract claims of 'freedom', as opposed to violent countries.

Most refugees in the United States come from war-torn countries rife with political strife and ethnic and religious feuding. Around 18,000 refugees moved to the United States from Iraq in 2010. The second highest country of origin was Burma, with 16.693 refugees. Other countries with a large number of refugees to the U.S. include Bhutan, Somalia, Cuba and Iran.

http://www.shewrites.com/profiles/blogs/usa-the-largest-single-recipient-of-asylum-applications

" Is far left OK but far right not OK?"

An irrelevant question, I'd say. The government of Germany is neither; these Germans are certainly associated with the far right, but I don't see asylum being granted to people coming to the USA because they are far left.

"If their country of origin is next door to a save haven does that exclude them from eligibility? "

There is no obligation under the refugee convention or any other instrument of international law that requires refugees to seek asylum in any particular country. There has, however, been a longstanding "first country of asylum" principle in international law by which countries are expected to take refugees fleeing from persecution in a neighbouring state. This principle has developed so that, in practice, an asylum seeker who had the opportunity to claim asylum in another country is liable to be returned there in order for his or her claim to be determined.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/sep/21/claim-asylum-uk-legal-position

Given that you can travel from Germany to Austria without even showing a passport, and they had the automatic right to live in Austria, both countries being in the EU, this seems a relevant point. Austria wouldn't, of course, see it as 'persecution', but they'd have been able to live there; they wouldn't have asked for the reasons for the family moving.

[iamthebandfanman]

2. theres a good reason

they don't allow such things in Germany..

and the same reason we still have a huge military base there...

[Diclotican]

13. iamthebandfanman

iamthebandfanman

This was maybe originally one of the main reasons the US did have, and indeed have today military bases in Germany - but Germany was also the battleground for a possible war with the Soviet Union - who ruled the eastern part of the Continent - and who the US did believed was on the brink of starting a new war with the west, to conquer also that part of the continent... They had understated the horrible damage the war had been doing to the USSR - and regime of Stalin, who already in 1949 exploded their first nuclear bomb - just a few years after the US did it, was not exactly telling how damaged the European part of Russia indeed was - with most of the industry capacity destroyed - and most of the villages - towns and city's devastated and in ruins... In fact, it took many years before the USSR was in any shape to even compete with US, when it come to industrial output - and because of the experiences of World war two - the russians had a rather paranoid belief system when it came to the possibility of a new war with the US - or for that matter with the western part of Germany. They var genuine scared to hell about the horrible carnage world war two gave russians. We have to remember over 20 million russians, woman, men and children's was killed by the war - either by the war itself - or as a policy by the Germans to starve and kill over 30 million russians in the European part of Russia - they was able to kill 2/3 of the russians they had planned to murder...

And Soviet Russia kept also more than 100.000 soldiers on guard in the eastern part of Germany - in the DDR. And it was mostly because they was afraid - very afraid of the possibility of a new german attack on Soviet Union - and also to keep the West at bay as they in the 1950s, and 1960s - and until 1984-85 in fact believed it was a possibility that US, and its allied in the Western European theater would be willing to risk a war... And many times it was a very close call for a war between the two blocks of powers - specially in the 1960s and 1970s it was many times extremely close call for a war between USA and the Soviet Union.. But thanks to luck - and some fancy diplomacy - and some cold heads in charge - a new war was never started even if the situation was cold as ice - and continued to be extremely cold for decades...

It was not until the 1980s - where they got new leaders in the USSR, that things started to warm up again. Under Gorbatsjev, who was elected chairman of the SUPK, the communist party of USSR, they was able to start the proses of internal reforms - and also reforms when it came to the outside world.. The "super-power meetings" between Premier Gorbatsjev - and President Reagan started for real the proses of warming things up - and also that the two enemies discovered that the other side did had families, friends - and also that they was humans and not reptiles.. For all his wrongdoings mr Reagan at least was able to understand the fear the opposite part was living with - and the 1980s was starting to be far better - not just between the two superpowers - but also in general in the Eastern European world..
In late 1980s - 1986-1989 things really changed, both in USSR and in the eastern part of Europe - specially the new Gorbatsjev Doctrine - who stated rather clearly to every nation in the eastern part of Europe - it was not longer an automatic in Soviet forces to prop up the government - if the people in the different nations would have new leaders - Then most of the fear, who had been part of the population of eastern europe - as USSR more than a few times had put soldiers on ground, to keep the leadership in many nations in control - and crush popular revolts in blood was no longer something they had to calculate into a potential revolt.. And in most of the Eastern part of Europe - in 1989 - specially the summer and fall of 1989 where many ten of thousands just decided to leave the communist block for the west - it started as a trickle - but ended up in the fall of the Berlin Wall 9th november 1989 (something that I will never forget, even as i was seeing it live, on the evening News, even as I was young then - I was told to get in and look at the news something that I was never asked to do before.. And before my eyes - the world changed as thousands of Eastern germans from East Berlin deiced to just walk to the western side to visit their former enemy... The East German Government kind of had a meltdown, where they lost control over the situation - and where in the end - people was able to do as they had wanted for 40 years - be free from an authoritarian regime who used all form of force to control the situation.. DDR ended that fall -in 1989 - and in a few years - the whole map changed as some nations was liberate - some divorced rather easy - others had a horrible breakdown with civil wars and so one... But the continent of the 1945 - and the Cold war, was no more...

But we still have to get to grasp - both with our history and past in Europe - but also to do the best for the future - and that is difficult in a continent as diverse as Europe...

Diclotican

[24601]

21. Huge US Military bases aren't really the way things are in Germany. A training area like Grafenwoehr

has to be large because they need maneuver area. But not many troops are actually stationed there. Instead they rotate in & out for exercises. Air Bases tend to need land for the runways & golf courses. Most of the units are stationed at reasonably small Kasernes where the Corps & Division Headquarters would be at different bases as would the subordinate Brigades & even Battalions.

[OneCrazyDiamond]

3. I too sometimes

have a principled opposition to government policy. Especially when it comes to Banks (or Banksters being my preferred label).

[ForgoTheConsequence]

4. Give me your tired, your poor...

and your religious nutjobs.

[Taverner]

7. Call me a Fascist, but I am against home schooling

It breeds ignorance

Now I know a bunch will come out saying how bad their local schools are, etc, and that they homeschool their kids.

Well of course the local schools are bad, all the intelligent kids aren't going there!

Kids learn more from their peers than you by age 9

There is a reason the classroom model works

[roamer65]

11. It also breeds anti-social behavior.

[Taverner]

14. That too

And it deprives a community of kids who could contribute to the education of others.

[jhasp]

18. We homeschool and this isn't the case

We homeschool our two children (7 and 8 years old) and our kids certainly aren't anti-social and neither are the many other homeschool kids that participate in the 4-H homeschool group, the homeschool field trips, the homeschool Y programs, etc. Our kids easily intermingle with kids of all ages. It's expected in the homeschool groups. On Mondays they have swim lessons with other homeschoolers, on Wednesday they have gymnastics with other homeschoolers, and Fridays are 4-H in the morning (today they made catapults) and Friday evening is dance.

My 7 year old daughter is completing a difficult 3rd grade curriculum along side my son. They are learning long division with remainders right now in math and my son is well past his grade level for reading comprehension and they both do well (mainly As some Bs) in spelling, science, history, etc. A few times per week they work with my wife to provide items for the local clothing closet/food pantry. They help make liquid laundry detergent that is generally distributed to the homeless (it isn't covered by food stamps) and they go to garage sales to find clothes for the clothing closet. I don't have anything against public school. I am a professor at a public university. I am happy to pay my property taxes that go to the local schools. Homeschooling is an option that works well for us, but it isn't for everyone. My son was born premature and so he is very small for his age and has severe allergies.

We love the flexibility and the ability to make learning a bit more tangible. Instead of reading about plants in a book, they go to an apple orchard and the owner of the orchard explains to them how they breed apple trees and how they create new varieties of apples. Instead of reading about Lincoln and the Civil War, we went to the Lincoln presidential library and museum and visited civil war battle sites. My kids don't have to be up at 6 am to meet the bus at 7 am. If it's a nice day outside, they can go outside and enjoy the weather and play and then do their homework later.

[gtar100]

30. Goes to show it can be done right. Your kids are fortunate.

Not all parents have the wherewithal to do what you're doing and there are no absolutes about either homeschooling or public schools. So if your kids are happy and growing up engaged in the world, I count them as lucky.

[JoeyT]

10. We have enough nuts of our own, Germany can have them back.

I don't know why they'd want to come here anyway. Don't they know American Christians are the most persecuted people in the world?

[annabanana]

12. What? We have to IMPORT fundies now?

We don't have enough of our own??

[Taverner]

15. Castro, Khruschev, an American and a Fundie are driving in a car...

[darkangel218]

29. LMAOROFL@import fundies!!!

[Turbineguy]

17. Yes, the USA is a haven

for the willfully ignorant.

[displacedtexan]

19. My favorite part of the article...

For instance, Uwe Romeike claimed a textbook "featured a story suggesting that 'the devil can help you if you ask the devil, but God would not help you,'" the government said. But he could not recall the title of the story or its author.

Romeike also claimed the schools taught witchcraft based on a game played by classmates of his wife when she was in the seventh grade "that involved pushing chairs and glasses around, and dangling a pendulum."

Germans don't put up with vague.

I should have written: Up with vague Germans do not put.

[Mona]

22. I see what you did there...

"I should have written: Up with vague Germans do not put."

Darn German grammar!

[Mona]

20. Please no, we have enough wingnuts :-( nt

.

[Snake Plissken]

23. Well it's only fair, we gave them Scientologists to deal with before they banned it

I guess it's only fitting they give us a few wingnuts to deal with too.

[jmowreader]

25. A point must be made here

There are Christian schools in Germany. They don't teach the traditional German fairy tales, and many of them are very inexpensive - certainly no more expensive than buying all the shit you need to homeschool.

And as others have pointed out, it is extremely easy to move between countries in the European Union.

[The Straight Story]

26. Why is it I find the most freedom restricting posts on a progressive board?

We rail against the right when it comes to freedom over abortion - but on the left one sees more and more wanting to limit choice from schools to guns to smoking to size of drinks, etc and so on.

Don't like homeschooling? Don't do it. Why do we continually see people wanting to make choices for others then yelling when someone does it to them?

WTH has happened to the 'hippies' who were lovers of freedom and choice? Oh, I know - we call them libertarians now (easier to label someone than to discuss the ramifications of things like restricting more and more freedoms).

[alp227]

27. But sometimes choices AFFECT OTHERS. how many times do i have to repeat that?

Guns can harm others.

Not everyone wants to breathe in everyone else's tobacco filth.

People who buy the large drinks become a burden on social services due to later health problems.

In SOME cases (sadly by "some" I also mean "too many&quot homeschooling perpetuates ignorance via teaching creationism, religious radicalism, etc. and harms our collective intellect.

[The Straight Story]

28. And abortion can affect others, so can affairs

so can just about everything someone does.

From the mental health and strain on others, to diseases, to destroying relationships, to driving your car and polluting, etc.

No choice is in a vacuum - so if we are going to go down that road be prepared for others to use the same arguments.

And oh, yeah, guns can harm others - well, not the guns but the people using them. And since that is less than 1% of their owners why paint the many based on the few? I don't want to breathe in perfume or exhaust fumes.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. They were already able to homeschool

All they had to do was move to another EU country to do it. They didn't need anyone's permission to do that - no visa or court case required. You just move. 'Fleeing' to the US was a political stunt.

If you are in favour of unrestricted immigration, then allowing them in to the USA is consistent. If you think there should be some form of restriction, then is "dissatisfaction with the educational system" a good enough reason? Would you, for instance, say Canada, or the EU, should accept asylum seekers from the USA on the grounds of lack of public healthcare provision?

[The Straight Story]

36. Not talking about the case as much as I am the responses to it

And as far as Canada taking in people for asylum over health care - not a bad idea We get people coming to our country all of the time, albeit not with their paper work properly filled out, seeking a better place for health and jobs, and we don't seem to have any problems at all with that.

[msanthrope]

35. I know the judge who granted them asylum, personally. That Larry Burman was smacked not only by the

6th Circuit, but by his own Board of Immigration Appeals for his shoddy legal reasoning comes as no surprise.

I was also not surprised to read that Larry decided to read his opinion from the bench....not a smart move when you then get so whacked by the appellate courts.


http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Germany/Romeike_Official_Decision_Transcript_1-26-10.pdf