Manchin: I'd Support Delaying Obamacare To Avoid Govt Shutdown

[DonViejo]

Source: TPM

DYLAN SCOTT – SEPTEMBER 26, 2013, 11:47 AM EDT

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) said Thursday that he would support a one-year delay of Obamacare's individual mandate as part of a short-term government spending bill.

Delaying implementation of one of the key pieces of Obamacare is one of the provisions that congressional Republicans are reportedly considering including in the temporary government spending bill when it comes back from the Senate.

Manchin's comments, made at a Bloomberg Government breakfast in Washington, D.C., were reported by Bloomberg News.

“There’s no way I could not vote for it. It’s very reasonable and sensible,” Manchin said. “Don’t put the mandate on the American public right now. Give them at least a year. If you know you couldn’t bring the corporate sector, you gave them a year, don’t you think it’d be fair?”

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/manchin-says-he-d-support-delay-of-individual-mandate

---

Link to Bloomberg article:

Democrat Manchin Breaks Ranks to Back Mandate Delay

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-26/democrat-manchin-breaks-ranks-to-back-mandate-delay.html

---------------------------

Leadership from the chicken shit Senator from West Virginia?

Call him at 202-224-3954 to express your disagreement.

[Skinner]

1. Wrong answer, Senator.

[warrant46]

31. I think he's listening to the voting base in his state

Remember Al Gore couldn't carry Tennessee and Arkansas and that was the election.

There is a dark, dark evil lurking here.

[nikto]

71. Tenn and Ark sound like The Devil's Playground

Yecch.

[think]

2. pathetic.../nt

[AgingAmerican]

3. Idiot

nt

[durablend]

4. And here it comes, folks

“There’s no way I could not vote for it. It’s very reasonable and sensible,” Manchin said. “Don’t put the mandate on the American public right now. Give them at least a year. If you know you couldn’t bring the corporate sector, you gave them a year, don’t you think it’d be fair?”

Yeah senator, and when they don't like it next year, we'll just delay it another year (rinse and repeat).

Sad to see the negotiating with TERRORISTS is coming earlier than I'd thought...

[rurallib]

55. Mr. Manchin - they have had 3 years already

time to stand up, man.

[LiberalFighter]

82. That's the problem. He is not man enough! nt

[sendero]

69. Obama brought this on himself..

... by delaying certain business provisions for a year. Regardless of the merits of such a decision, it was predicted that this would be the outcome.

I think ACA will survive all this bullshit, but Obama could definitely play his three dimensional chess better than he has so far.

[markpkessinger]

73. And ^^^THIS^^^ is why one should never negotiate with terrorists! n/t

[1ProudAtheist]

5. The Path To Capitulation

Has now been established. Obama will cave, watch and see.

[sharp_stick]

13. Oh fuck this

This kind of fucking whining is pathetic beyond belief.

Reading this kind of drivel and just thinking of the incredible intellectual thought that must have gone into it makes me want to puke.

[DonViejo]

18. ^^^^^

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

24. O *** D *** S ***

Put a fucking sock in it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. ROFL

[seabeckind]

42. While we're on the delusional subject,

let's play a whatif game. I like them.

What if he caves?

He has before...on at least 3 occasions. Extended Bush tax cuts, etc.

He already delayed some provisions of the ACA at the behest of business. Some tried to play it off as giving them or the states more time to do the hard stuff but I think their crying was a ploy to make another year's windfall before the ax fell. He didn't seem to worry that much when he was giving something away to the 1%

So what if?

What if this Manchin thing is a scheme to give him an escape clause for the cave. Maybe?

BTW, is your support for Obama similar to the support so many feel for Mr Ronnie Raygun? Do you think that unconditional behavior is ok?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

44. What if this. What if that...

For me, it makes no sense and I've already explained why it makes no sense to delay this law. You can find that explanation in this thread further below.

As for the subtle "Raygun" attack, keep it. You know nothing about me, and I don't have time to respond to that ridiculous tripe. I need to eat lunch.

Later...

[seabeckind]

46. Ahh,

perhaps the ODS doesn't mean what you think it means.

I noticed you avoided the issue. Do you think all those "haters" did, too?

So explain to me how your unconditional support of Obama differs from the one some have in their support of Raygun. Looks the same to me.

The question remains...what if?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. I have "unconditional" support for Obama? How do you know this?

Do you know me? Are you stalking me? Have you read all my posts?

What are you talking about?

I am very clear on what I think ODS means and have never swayed from that.

Your posts make absolutely no sense, which is, by the way, a symptom of ODS--the absense of facts.

I'll put you on Ignore anyway so that you'll enjoy talking to yourself for awhile.

Stalkers scare me anyway. Go stalk someone else.

[seabeckind]

50. Buh bye,

mind the door.

I like the way the ODS guys run away when faced with the possibility that their hero might not be.

I haven't read any of your posts other than the one above that tried to shut off criticism by yelling ODS and telling the other guy to put a sock in it.

Didn't need much more than that.

[beerandjesus]

51. So it's ok if you sling around derogatory epithets, but not if others do it.

Just so we're clear.

You're right to resent being compared to Reagan-worshippers. Trouble is, some of us resent being compared to teabaggers just as much.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

59. O.K., so I take that back. I won't compare you to Teabaggers and you won't

compare me to Reagan Worshipers. But you also won't call me or anyone else who dare say anything kind or laudatory about this president an "Obamabot" or "Obama worshiper" or a "Bogger," "an authoritarian," "un-American," or any of the long list of horrible names that there are for ANYONE who say ANYTHING even remotely commendable about the president--even if we may have criticized his actions from time to time. There have been numerous times where I have expressed my disappointment with Obama and have stated as such; or, I have disagreed with him on a policy decision here and there and have voiced my opinion. However, it's only when I've complimented him or defended him or said anything kind about him that I get this knee-jerk, derogatory, ad-hominem attack thrown back at me from those who dislike or are disappointed in him. I'm tired of it.

So, if you're asking me to respect you, then that relationship must be reciprocal.

Deal?

[beerandjesus]

62. Haha! You've got a deal with me, that's for DAMN sure!

And as a show of good faith, I'll quit starting my pro-Obama posts with "on behalf of the 'Obama-haters'..... "

I seriously appreciate your comment. Obama's nowhere near as left-wing as I wish he were, and I often say so, but I do try to give him credit when he deserves it. The ODS thing is particularly galling because "real" ODS, as expressed by baggers, is quite possibly the ugliest thing I've seen in the 25 or so years I've been following politics--and in this case, I think it served to obscure a legitimate, if negatively-expressed, point by the poster you were replying to. So I sincerely thank you for being willing to back off on that particular expression.

One last thing: I won't take you (or anyone else) to task for any other epithets! I've been called way worse by actual right-wingers.


Now, let's see if the rest of the forum can follow the Christ-like example we've set here, hahaha!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

64. Well, that's a start and I appreciate that. I wish more around here were like you.

Besides, I'm really afraid of what's going to happen in 2014 if we Democrats don't start getting our shit together and working to elect more progressives to Congress. We really cannot afford to be divided right now. Yeah, I know it sounds hypocritical coming from me or anyone on this forum who has been embroiled in online bickering from time to time, but still. We have to find a way to pull together because things are going to get much worse from here on out.

I work for the federal government. My colleagues and I are freaking out. My friends, most of us are federal employees, we're all freaking out. Can't afford another shutdown. Literally. The people we serve will be hurt the most. My heart aches for them. Yes, we will suffer, but it is they and the American people who simply do not understand how much they will be hurt by a shutdown. They have no earthly idea.

[beerandjesus]

67. Couldn't agree more....

And I hope my previous post didn't sound too flip... all those "hahas!" were intended as genuine happiness over having buried a hatchet.

You're right, Obama has got nothing to lose--and the Senators supporting him ought to be fine too, if they just stand up for their principles. I really believe that one of the reasons people vote for Republicans is because they're good at looking strong; that's one trait many Democrats could stand to emulate. Do the right thing and do it with conviction, and people will stand with you--or so I'd like to think. In West Virginia, I think they would; it's a conservative state, but with deep Democratic roots.

Hopefully it will be well for both of us, and for the nation as a whole!

[nikto]

72. GOPers would...

GOPers would eat Reagan's shit for dinner if he were still alive and pooping.
Their bizarre worship of the guy is that strong.

[beerandjesus]

47. The 11-dimensional chess master may have tasked Manchin with floating this trial balloon.

Let's keep that in mind--it would be a hell of a lot smarter than floating it himself, and a Democrat from West Virginia is precisely the right guy to do it, especially since (as others in this thread have pointed out) it could allow him to score a few political points at home.


Although, if Obama had floated this himself, I suppose the cheerleading squad would be saying precisely the opposite of what they're saying to Proud Atheist now!

[ancianita]

88. Interesting. But I don't see why forcing the Republicans to raise the debt ceiling is BO's problem.

Or the Dems' problem, either. I guess I don't get what's likely about the consequences. So then, what's this "trial balloon" supposed to accomplish?

[beerandjesus]

92. Well, assuming it's just a trial balloon, which I think is likely:

Its purpose would be to gauge public opinion on negotiating with the terrorists, to see how the terrorists respond to the overture, or both.

It also reinforces the notion that the Democrats are reasonable and willing to work in a bipartisan way--in marked contrast to the ransom note/list of demands the House put out yesterday.

Given that yesterday, Obama if anything ratcheted the rhetoric up a few more notches, my hope is that the response to Manchin's comments was as universally hostile as it was here on DU. But yesterday's speech may also have been analogous to the threat of force against Syria, which turned out to be pretty effective in laying the groundwork for what's proving to be a diplomatic breakthrough.

I think the "11-dimensional-chess" business some sling around is pretty corny, but I don't deny that Obama can be a great tactician!

And of course, it's still possible that Manchin went out and made those comments all by himself. I still think there's some teamwork going on, but if I personally were a reporter looking for a new angle on the Democratic position, I'd seek Manchin out, because he's known to be pretty moderate, and I've always (perhaps naively) thought he comes off as a genuinely nice guy in a way that few senators do.

Incidentally, I think raising the debt ceiling is Obama's problem because it's America's problem. If I were in his shoes I'd be deciding who should go on the trillion-dollar coin.

[ancianita]

94. Thanks.

[babylonsister]

26. Will never happen despite perhaps your high hopes. nt

[beerandjesus]

40. You're definitely being pessimistic, but the cheerleading squad is missing the point.

The Path to Capitulation has been established.

What remains to be seen is whether Obama will take it and cave. I hope he doesn't, and he's definitely set the expectation that he won't.

But we do need to watch and see. He's let us down many times before. I'm hopeful but not naïve.

[awoke_in_2003]

58. The republicans are trying to kill it by defunding...

and our party is killing it by "death by a thousand cuts"

[onehandle]

6. Fail. nt

[groundloop]

7. BULLSHIT.... They'll delay delay delay and then delay some more if we let them

"Give them at least a year".... How the hell long does he think it's been since the affordable care act became law? We get this one little nugget handed to us, this one little step in the right direction on the path to universal healthcare, and now these bastards don't even want us to have that little bit.

[IADEMO2004]

8. You are a U.S. Senator from West Virginia you 8-ball. Your people need you to think.

[durablend]

11. Sadly, that's what he's likely thinking of

If they had their way, they'd have him, the ACA and the "illegitimate" black president gone.

[WCGreen]

9. One of the poorest states in the Union has a Senator who sides with

the GOP

[Drunken Irishman]

10. Would he support delaying his healthcare to avoid a government shutdown?

It's always nice that these reps are cool with delaying, denying things that don't impact 'em, but you never hear them mention delaying their salary or perks or healthcare.

Hey Manchin: FUCK YOU, you slimy piece of shit.

[anokaflash]

12. TradeOff

Ya know, if they want to delay, or eliminate the individual mandate, then they should abolish the requirement of Hospitals and Clinics to automatically accept people with out insurance into their emergency rooms.

Harsh, certainly, but they need to understand the tradeoff. These guys are all about personal responsibility and personal choices, but as longs as there is no need for them to have insurance, since the ERs will take them in, there will be this debate.

[pnwmom]

20. No. That is the LAST thing we should be doing. Most of the people who rely on emergency rooms

are NOT doing it because they've made a personal choice to forgo having a regular doctor and health insurance.

They have no alternative.

Most of the people fighting the ACA, OTOH, are doing so because they are happy with their doctor and insurance (often Medicare) and they're afraid that if other people are covered, their own access to health care will be threatened or that their prices will go up. (Or they object to the taxes on the wealthy that will be helping to fund Obamacare.)

[Botany]

14. I'd support not giving Manchin and his family government funded health insurance

n/t

[heaven05]

15. Democrat, rolling over, again.

No excuse or rationale for this type of thinking by a democrat. small d. In the wrong party bud.

[DCBob]

16. I think this guy is ready to jump parties.

Its a real stretch to claim he's a Democrat.

[HERVEPA]

29. Nope. Standard WV Dem. Rockefeller was a bit of an exceptioon.

[DCBob]

32. Then there's not a hill-a-beans of difference between the parties in that state.

Pathetic.

[Autumn]

17. Of course you would.

[Dollface]

19. Individuals don't need another year, they need insurance. Manchin can suck eggs.

The corporate delay is intended to provide additional time for input from employers and other reporting entities in an effort to simplify reporting requirements and “to provide employers, insurers, and other providers of minimum essential coverage time to adapt their health coverage and reporting systems.” (Read get payroll software adapted.)

The delay affords employers an opportunity to more carefully consider and implement their ACA play-or-pay strategy, hopefully informed by additional and clearer guidance about their obligations under 4980H and the new reporting requirements.

[BumRushDaShow]

22. He needs to go back to pushing for Gun Control

and get out of this debate.

[DCBob]

25. Anyone who understand the mechanics of this program knows delaying the mandate..

will cause problems since the bottom line depends on everyone participating.

[SunSeeker]

79. Bingo. It is a poison pill. It will make rates shoot up and kill the exchanges. nt

[DCBob]

86. I am beginning to realize the gopers know obamacare is going to be popular..

unless they can sabotage it somehow.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

27. O.K., now let me ask this...

Let's say the Democrats cave and give the Republicans what they want--a year to implement Obamacare; or at least a year to implement the healthcare mandates...

Do we really believe that if we delay the implementation of Obamacare that we won't face this same issue next year when it's time to pass another Appropriations Omnibus package or raise the debt ceiling or simply pass another fucking fiscal year budget? I mean, how fucking stupid does Manchin think we are?

Furthermore, if we have the 2014 midterm elections and the Republicans takeover the Senate and maintain control of the U.S. House next, do we honestly believe that they'll operate in good faith and allow Obamacare to be implemented?

Manchin is a fucking idiot and so is anyone else who believes that this is a good idea!

[beerandjesus]

56. ^^^ This post is exactly right

Except I don't think it would take a full year before the right-wingers try to take another chunk out of Obamacare--I'd give it 6 months at most, and more likely closer to 3; and I think it's naïve to think Manchin is acting alone here.

GOD, I hope Obama sticks to his guns on this! He should give the Republicans exactly what he said he'd give them: NOTHING.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

57. I think he will. I'm more afraid of the cowardly Democrats in the Senate

who are up for reelection. I'm afraid of them caving. I'm not afraid of what Obama will do. That's why I'm so frustrated with the ODSers here on DU. This really isn't about Obama. This really is about the 2014 midterms. The ODSers lack reason; they are so shortsighted. The Senate Democrats who represent purple states and the House Democrats in marginal districts--THEY are the ones who are more likely to cave! Obama has nothing to lose; THEY do!

[seabeckind]

80. Actually it's all about Obama.

Has been from the very beginning.

In this case even if every blue dog caves...he still has the veto.

They can't override so they either watch the gov't crash or they pass a clean bill.

Based on what these people have done in the past...like the sequester that everyone said no one would be crazy enough to do...that they did...

I don't have high hopes.

[HERVEPA]

28. Translation: I support blackmail by thugs.

[Orsino]

33. He even uses the word "sensible."

So I'll use the word "corrupt."

[GoneFishin]

34. If you just wait 1 year, I swear I won't pull the football away then Charlie Brown. nt

[liberal N proud]

35. They are going to FUCKING cave!

OMFG!

[The Stranger]

36. The Republicans are split right now, knowing if they shut it down they will lose.

Finally, FINALLY, they are left in a no-win situation.

But this "Democrat" decides to change all of that.

[Garion_55]

37. I would support you killing my wife

if you left my kids alone, sure! Lets make that deal mr terrorist!


the correct answer is 'tell them terrorbaggers to fuck off!!'

[tofuandbeer]

38. HELL NO!

Is this guy up for re-election or what? Cripes! Go away!

[The Stranger]

39. These are the little things that really make you wonder if the whole thing is rigged.

[seabeckind]

45. No!!!

I don't believe it. There's no way our wonderful DLC would hide behind obstructionism in their quest for statemanship and pursuit of the dignity of the common man.

Say it isn't so.

Repent, oh ye...

[GoneFishin]

93. This has a slight stink of the Public Option kabuki theater, when the public option was

pre-ordained to be DOA, but no democrat wanted to take the heat for it.

[Richardo]

41. Why the fuck would you say that out loud?

If we had a Majority Leader like Lyndon Johnson that guy's ass would get kicked so hard it would never be found.

[Dawson Leery]

43. Vote against the ACA, don't come to us for money in 2018.

[rso]

49. Manchin

Fortunately, a subsequent statement by Chuck Schumer clarified that he talked with Manchin, and in spite of Manchin's personal view about the merits of a one year delay, Manchin would nonetheless be voting with democrats against the delay.

[Skittles]

52. it's like republicans won the election

[The Wizard]

53. When you enemy is on its heels

(enemy is not hyperbole) push them, do not offer them a hand. Republicans are incapable of negotiating in good faith. Enabling their temper tantrums is a losing strategy. And when they're down put a boot heel on their neck. Their attempts at election nullification have succeeded in the past. Do not give an iota to these scumbags.

[dkf]

54. Well that's a misleading title. He is open to delaying the penalty for not having insurance a year.

They delayed it for employers.

Frankly won't it be better to get people signed up in tiers anyway? And if the exchanges are such a great deal won't most people voluntarily sign up?

If it sounded like the admin and the program was more than ready and prepared for a relatively smooth transition then that is one thing, but it seems to me there were a lot of problems in the set up. I don't know if it's ready for prime time so forcing people with a mandate seems like a headache waiting to happen.

[Humble companion]

60. No penalty= No mandate

That's what it means.

[dkf]

63. Yes but the penalty is minimal anyway for year one.

I say delay the individual penalty one year but include it as a warning in the tax package. It's going to be a cost benefit proposition anyway.

I bet that's the way it would turn out with the penalty...people will see the impact on their taxes first and then sign up if that penalty bothers them. If they want health insurance they will sign up without prodding.

[otherone]

65. welcome to du

:~)

[gopiscrap]

90. Welcome to DU

[broadcaster75201]

61. Meh. he's in WVA just saying what he's got to say n/r

nt

[otherone]

66. perhaps floating a trial balloon

,,

[Kolesar]

68. I see that the bored Republicans have found this thread

...and made it into their playground.
Not much talkin' about Snowden these days after he embarrassed you so you move on to this.

[markpkessinger]

74. Congratulations ...

. . . for being the first person I've ever felt compelled to add to my "Shit Stirrers to Ignore" list.

[Kolesar]

95. Q.E.D.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=603783

[nikto]

70. What a Blue-Dog Democratic SCUM-BAG!!

Blue-Dog Democrats are as "Democratic", as worms are "Bird-Like".

He's not "chicken", he is just shit.

[seabeckind]

77. But exactly what are we to do?

In so many areas the only reason there's a democrat running is because the R on the ballot is already taken. There really is no choice.

Like my current senator. No way would I ever in a million years find anything in common between me and Donnelly except for our party. But in the last election the alternative was Murdock.

Not a whole lot of choice...

Who was it who said: "where are they going to go?" when he was asked about losing his base?

I'm really very tired of this big tent bullshit. As soon as you let these clowns in they start trying to replace the drapes and furniture. Next thing we know we're told we're some fringe left wingers and as bad as teabaggers.

[Snotcicles]

75. The other Democrats need to take Joe Manchin out to the parking lot. And have a chat with him. nt

[bullwinkle428]

76. "Reasonable and sensible", eh? I see a certain woodchuck rearing his head!

[NutmegYankee]

78. Damn Coward.

It is the official policy of the United States Government to not negotiate with terrorists

[Politicub]

81. I thought Manchin was an okay guy when he supported sensible gun control legislation

But now he can go to hell for all I care.

Even with it's imperfections, the ACA is the next piece of the great society that will be put in place. It needs to be tweaked, augmented with a public opinion, etc., but it's still going to do a lot of good for millions of people.

And it's a stepping stone to single payer, which I believe we will get to someday.

[hollowdweller]

97. That pretty much cost him

In 2011 PPP had him at a 61% approval rating. They did a poll last week and he was down to 46%.

People here HATE any gun control. I personally thought what he was proposing was reasonable but I can't tell you how many people I know who say they are now not going to vote for him.

I'm not sure how big of an issue the uninsured are in WV. We have a lot of retirees on Medicare. We have a lot of people on disability and SSI on Medicaid.

Most people here are already on some sort of gov't insurance.

[LiberalFighter]

83. Too many times Manchin has been unreasonable and not sensible.

[northoftheborder]

84. NO. NO more "compromise".

[andtheBeast]

85. Good thing he has absolutely no say in this.

[aquart]

87. Time to retire.

[CBHagman]

89. His voicemail is full, so here are other ways to contact him.

[url]http://www.joemanchinwv.com/contact[/url]


And then there are his offices:


Charleston Office

900 Pennsylvania Avenue
Suite 629
Charleston, WV 25302
Phone: [phone]
Toll-Free Phone: [phone] (For residents with a 304 or 681 area code)
Fax: [phone]

Morgantown Office
The Marina Tower
48 Donley Street
Suite 504
Morgantown, WV 26501
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Eastern Panhandle Office
217 West King Street
Room 238
Martinsburg, WV 25401
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Washington, DC
306 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington DC, 20510
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

[blackspade]

91. What an idiot.

[Kablooie]

96. So another year of House obsession with Obamacare and another extortion this time next year?

Sure!
Let's keep the status quo!
It's been so wonderful this past year!

Delaying it will simply keep the government totally dysfunctional while the House obsesses with 100 more votes to eliminate it.
As well as all the people who are anticipating reasonable health care next year that won't be able to get it. -- again.

Allowing the fever to break will possibly allow the sickness to begin to heal.

Possibly.

[cstanleytech]

98. Actually I might support a delay as well

provided the ability to delay raising the debt limit is removed from the congress and senate forever so they cant play political football anymore with it.