Florida Shooting: 7 Dead In Hialeah Apartment Shootout, Including Gunman
Source: Huffington Post
HIALEAH, Fla. A gunman holding hostages inside a South Florida apartment complex killed six people before being shot to death by a SWAT team that stormed the building early Saturday following an hours-long standoff, police said. Sgt. Eddie Rodriguez told The Associated Press that police got a call around 6:30 p.m. EDT Friday that shots had been fired in a building with dozens of apartments in Hialeah, just a few miles north of Miami.
Although a crisis team was able to briefly establish communication with the man, Rodriguez said talks eventually "just fell apart" with the gunman, who was holding two hostages on the fifth floor. Both of them survived when officers stormed the building, fatally shooting the gunman during an exchange of gunfire. "They made the decision to go in there and save and rescue the hostages," he said.
The dead bodies of three women and two men were found at two different apartment units inside the building, which Rodriguez said was in a "very quiet neighborhood." Another man who was walking his children into an apartment across the street also was killed. Rodriguez said it wasn't immediately clear whether the gunman took aim at him from an upper-level balcony or if he was hit by a stray bullet.
"From up there, he was able to shoot at people across the street, catching this one man who was just walking into his apartment," Rodriguez said.
Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/27/florida-shooting-hialeah_n_3663022.html
Cletus sez: 'Totally worth mah freedum.'
mlmdu
(4 posts)ceonupe
(597 posts)Did not stop until the gunman was shot and killed
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Did not START until the gunman got his gun.
gaspee
(3,231 posts)To get into a tautological argument with a gun nut.
rdharma
(6,057 posts).... to see them try to defend Wayne LaPierre's bizarre talking points.
In this case, it's the "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun" meme.
I wonder if this is a case of a "responsible" gun owner gone bad OR a bad guy who was able to get his hands on a gun thanks to lax gun safety laws.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)No wonder gun-banners & controllers have problems with "intensity" regarding their ideology.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)But maybe it's possible to embarrass them a bit by making fun of the utter nonsense they're spewing!
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Very correct.
Guns allow people to kill and kill rapidly.
Our laws allow people to own them and use them for defense.
Like many tools they can be used offensively and defensively.
We hear daily about people killed by armed home invaders and people killing home invaders. It goes both ways. We have incidents of negligence that kills children and the occasional story of a youth using a firearm to defend them selfs or family.
I'm on the side of allowing people to arm themselfs I respect that you disagree.
Just remember when seconds count the police are often minutes away unless its Detroit then it may be an hour or next day.
Nanjing to Seoul
(2,088 posts)themselfs should be themselves. you did it twice.
rightsideout
(978 posts)Derp, derp.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Believes that is the proper spelling
Ian David
(69,059 posts)raccoon
(31,111 posts)Soundman
(297 posts)Tools are used to build things, guns are made to kill things. But I guess this is the price we have to pay so a few morons can continue bastardizing the 2nd amendment in an unabated fashion, Hooooray!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I'm confused. I've never seen one work like the Forge of Solus Prime. Usually you just smash shit with them.
Soundman
(297 posts)Drive things into the ground usually.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)billh58
(6,635 posts)willfully obtuse. The "designed" purpose of any object has absolutely nothing to do with the "intent" of the user. The designed purpose of a lethal weapon is to inflict bodily harm and/or kill.
That a gun can be used for other purposes does not alter it's primary designed function as a weapon. That a sledgehammer can be used for harm does not alter its primary designed function as a construction tool. Guns are not "tools" in the common use of the word, except in the Gungeon and in NRA propaganda.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Just like a Defib is a tool. They are meant for solving problems.
The only guns in my safe that have ever been used on humans, were used on fascists, in the last world war. Proper use of said tool.
Tools can be mis-used. That's why I keep mine under tight lock and key.
Soundman
(297 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)billh58
(6,635 posts)false definition that the NRA teaches you people, and that Gungeoneers keep spouting as gospel. But that's okay, most Americans have enough common sense to know that a gun is NOT a tool, but rather a lethal weapon designed for killing. You can use it as a hammer or a club, but that is not what it was designed for.
Paladin
(28,265 posts)A review of the DU Gun Control/RKBA group on any given day will confirm that. "Guns are Tools"? Not for you folks.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Not nearly as much as homes are invaded.
Insurance companies recently nixed plans to arm school staff. It's not because insurance companies are liberal lefties who want all guns confiscated, it's because their actuaries determined it makes schools less safe, not more. Very bad for business.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/us/schools-seeking-to-arm-employees-hit-hurdle-on-insurance.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
I admit that's slightly off-topic talking about schools, but my point is when dollars are on the line, the ideological distortion is suddenly corrected, and it's easy to see which statistics are valid.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)living or working in the low income district of any large city? Youths can and do get guns regularly, not only to protect themselves but to threaten and harm others for some slight like suspecting someone took a piece of jewelry. (This was a reason one youth was shot in DC last year and during the young man's funeral, others were shot in retaliation).
One of my hs students in the inner city who is headed for college was accosted by two other hs students who showed a gun and asked if he was a certain person. My student said no, and luckily he had a school ID and showed it to them. They all then had a pleasant conversation and the gunmen went off to find their target.
What is your solution to youths getting guns illegally? Loosening up gun control laws, I suppose
wordpix
(18,652 posts)living or working in the low income district of any large city. Youths can and do get guns regularly, not only to protect themselves but to threaten and harm others for some slight like suspecting someone took a piece of jewelry. (This was the reason one youth was shot in DC last year and during his funeral, several others were shot in retaliation).
One of my wonderful hs students in the inner city was accosted by two other hs students who showed a gun and asked if he was a certain person. My student said no, and luckily he had a school ID and showed it to them. They all then had a pleasant conversation and the gunmen went off to find their target.
One block from the school, a young mother was shot while boarding a bus with her child. She was shot by the child's father.
"Occasional?" Get police reports from large US cities daily and you will see regular youth violence with guns.
What is your solution to youths getting guns illegally? Loosening up gun control laws, I suppose
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)greiner3
(5,214 posts)Nanjing to Seoul
(2,088 posts)SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)calimary
(81,322 posts)Did you come up with that, Nanjing to Seoul? That is a GREAT one!!!
Should be said, read, and spread!!!
Brigid
(17,621 posts)"Gundies!" Yes, most excellent!
calimary
(81,322 posts)Brigid
(17,621 posts)Historic NY
(37,451 posts)isn't that your standard line.
Nanjing to Seoul
(2,088 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Honestly, these clowns are using their Constitutional rights to bring down the Constitution itself.
Because with each increasingly outrageous act, people lose respect for the rule of law and will fall prey to demagogues.
Nice job on the behalf of the Koch brothers, Grover Nordquist and the rest. Destabilizing the country from top to bottom and push Civil War. And of course, the free flow of weaponry is required for that.
Defunding public education, but maintaining media monopoly as the fall back agency of educating the public, slashing funds for community programs to help people like this or bring them to account before this happens, and promoting fear and hatred.
Then demonize the police for getting militarized in the face of military grade weaponry, or for shooting this guy, while he was on a rampage with no other way of stopping him but by SWAT.
No peaceful methods were in force that could have staved off this event, in fact the NRA made sure he had the most lethal killing machines without anyone knowing it and no controls.
Koch Khaos wins again. Someone think up another K to go with those two, since it would fit.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)but I also live in Fl and in my county we have been having quite a few armed home invasions. People are robbed after being made to lie facedown and some get shot. It is getting pretty brazen IMO. I am armed and I have a big dog. I doubt and hope I never need it for that purpose but I am glad I have it just in case. I don't follow the NRA so I have no talking points for you.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Nanjing to Seoul
(2,088 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)The main thing I hated is that Hialeah is about 80% Cuban and no one speaks English even in mainstream stores. I would become very adamant when a sales person spoke to me in Spanish.
My daughter lives there now not very far from the shooting incident.
Ohio Joe
(21,758 posts)Fuckin gun nuts just love to get to the killing.
riverbendviewgal
(4,253 posts)Than to buy a gun, per the comment on this story.
I loved visiting Florida, but will never set foot in this state again. GUNS, GUNS, GUNS. I never associate the beaches and palm trees with Florida any more, just guns and murders.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Didn't the second amendment cover state militias, not random individuals owning guns?
Aristus
(66,388 posts)They'd shoot you rather than repeat the phrase "A well-regulated militia" without irony or sarcasm.
Hell, they'd probably shoot you anyway, just for the fun of it. That's why they're gun-crazies.
They claim to hate government, but they love the standing army that the Founding Fathers believed was a tool of tyranny. It's why the Founders wanted militias.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts)Who've shown over the last three terms they have no problem legislating from the bench, Constructionism be damned.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)And RW gun huggers LOVE them!
NutmegYankee
(16,200 posts)It has been upheld as a citizen's right for over 200 years. In fact, the phrase "the right of the people" matches the wording used for the personal right to be secure from unreasonable search and seizure.
The wording referring to a well regulated militia means that the people (who were the defense of the nation) needed to be able to be immediately called up and able to form militias to defend the nation. That was ensured by having them familiar with guns and to have them on hand to do so. Think minutemen. In this instance, regulated is the older archaic definition meaning "good order". That was a common definition in that era. This first phrase is a justification for the need of the second clause.
Obviously our nation abandoned this defense method as newer tactics, such as Napoleon's, demonstrated the importance of a professional standing army for defense.
GlashFordan
(216 posts)Who WERE the militia at the time of the constitution? Yeah, just normal people. Has the definition of militia been clarified in the last 230 years? Yeah...
And cannons used by militia in the revolutionary war? Yeah, privately owned too. Even in the Civil War cannons and rifles were often purchased by private individuals to arm a volunteer group.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I suspect you will not be happy.
And BTW, President Obama has stated the 2A protects an individual right.
OldRedneck
(1,397 posts)After all, didn't Z'man rescue an entire family from a blazing SUV a few days ago?
Why didn't he rush to the scene and stop this carnage with a single well-aimed shot to the head of the gunman?
Pterodactyl
(1,687 posts)caseymoz
(5,763 posts). . . that needs to go viral. A Photoshop pictorial, George to the rescue!
rdharma
(6,057 posts)WHere was Zimmerman........ the new meme!
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's ........Zimmerman!
https://soundcloud.com/mike-in-raleigh/the-adventures-of-zimmerman
Nanjing to Seoul
(2,088 posts)Able to pull people from a car crash after willfully killing an unarmed black kid in cold blood. . .it's ZIMMER MAN!!!
Standing for truth (well, no). . .justice (hahahahahaha!!!!) and the American Stand-Your-Ground way!
KG
(28,751 posts)Blue Palasky
(81 posts)billh58
(6,635 posts)another Florida murderer, and spouting NRA propaganda while doing so. "Guns are just tools," and "good guy with a gun" are just about the best they have, along with "Heller, Heller, Heller."
The American people are waking up to their bullshit, and sane gun regulations will be the result. Gun huggers need to prepare to deal with the coming changes for the betterment of our society.
spin
(17,493 posts)Considering the lack of success that your efforts to pass a federal assault weapons ban enjoyed this year, I find your attitude overly optimistic.
Even the effort to modestly expand the background check system (which I supported) failed.
My mother used to tell me, "Don't count your chickens before they hatch."
billh58
(6,635 posts)and a new demographic is emerging. I am confident that obscene SYG and "gunz for everyone" laws purchased from corrupt politicians by the NRA over the years will be reversed, and that sanity will prevail. Maybe not tomorrow, or next year even, but soon.
spin
(17,493 posts)But it will be a long time in the future.
It is quite possible that the gun control movement will enjoy more success at the state level than the national level. New York State passed a strong gun control law this year. Since New York is a gun unfriendly state this law will probably survive attempts by the gun rights groups to overturn it.
You would definitely consider me to be a "gun hugger" but I do support improvements to our current gun laws. The problem the gun control side of the debate had was they overreached and tried to push laws though Congress that had little or no chance of passing.
A more reasonable approach might have resulted in a compromise and we would now have better background checks on the sale of all firearms, both public and private. We no longer would have a "gun show loophole."
I do not expect any real efforts to pass strong gun control in the new year because of the midterm elections. Of course after the midterms we may see a strong push for gun control if the Republicans lose the House and seats in the Senate. The problem that I see is that it is quite possible that the efforts to pass strong gun control may lead to a loss of Democratic seats in the House and the Senate. Time will tell.
hack89
(39,171 posts)while steadily losing ground year after year. We have cut our murder rate in half - perhaps that explains why that imaginary support never actually materializes.
billh58
(6,635 posts)cousin Teddy Nugent will be so proud of you...
hack89
(39,171 posts)it is hard to imagine any "mass" movement so dependent on self delusion and a fundamental misleading of public support. It has been one failure after another for decades - it has been steadily down hill since 1994. And yet you honestly think that somehow things are going to change.
billh58
(6,635 posts)NRA acolyte, and someone who fantasizes that gunz for everyone, anytime, anyplace, is what the Constitution actually means. It's okay however, because a new generation of voters is coming of age before our eyes, and they have had greatly different experiences from you and I. They are beginning to see the great harm that the unfettered proliferation of weapons does to our communities and our youth.
I have no delusions that although your kind is in the minority, and that you have managed to have obscene gun regulations passed by legislatures and town councils without the pesky old voting process interfering with the NRA-funded process, that it will take as long as it takes to undo the damage you have done to this country.
In the end, reason and sanity will prevail, and reasonable gun owners like Gabby Giffords will help bring about needed changes concerning the regulation of deadly weapons in this nation. Far from being self-delusion, it is fast becoming self-determination for the betterment of our society as a whole.
You may now spout some more NRA propaganda, and make yourself and your Gungeon "cold dead hands" flock feel better about yourselves. After all, you deserve all of the good will that you can manufacture for each other. Wayne and Ted might even give you and your Gungeon dwellers an honorable mention in their next round of right-wing hate speeches.
Paladin
(28,265 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)I don't really care that much. I live in a deep blue state with some of the country's strictest gun control laws - a state that just emphatically rejected stricter gun control laws post Newtown. You hang your hat on those future generations - the present has not been kind.to you and I understand the need for some kind of hope.
Crunchy Frog
(26,587 posts)2nd Amendment rights are protected.
olddots
(10,237 posts)n.t.
valerief
(53,235 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Its one of the bad parts of Miami. I've never lived there, but it was always on the news for various crimes.
Worst parts of Miami as far as crime : Liberty City, Lil Haiti, Opa locka and Hialeah.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I have also lived in Opa-Locka, but that was many years ago and as far as I know it was a very peaceful area.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)sigmasix
(794 posts)NRA- loving morons: you'll have to take their guns from the cold, dead hands of their children. The Obama Derangment Syndrome includes a huge contingent of cowardly white men that don't feel safe without a gun strapped to their body. Cowards and guns go together like Ted Nugent and pre-teen girls.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)he was standing his ground
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)without a trial or any semblance of due process. The police appointed themselves judge, jury, and executioner,
/snark
Turbineguy
(37,345 posts)properly civilized society.
NRA style.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Responsible gun owners.
Judi Lynn
(160,545 posts)[center]
Pedro Alberto Vargas, gunman [/center]
A look at the victims in the Hialeah killings
By Patricia Mazzei
pmazzei@MiamiHerald.com
Six neighbors did routine, mundane things Friday evening in Hialeah. A father parked his car after his sons boxing practice. A family hung out inside their apartment. A husband and wife, both building managers, knocked on a tenants door.
At some point, the tenant pulled out a 9mm pistol.
By the end of the night, the six neighbors were dead. So was the gunman, identified by Hialeah Police as Pedro Alberto Vargas, 42, killed by a SWAT team that stormed the apartment where for hours he kept two more neighbors hostage.
These are the victims stories.
Samira and Italo Pisciotti
The first to die were Italo and Samira Pisciotti, the husband and wife who managed the building at 1485 W 46th St. where Vargas and his mother, Esperanza Patterson, were tenants of apartment 408.
After an apparent dispute, Vargas fired about 15 to 20 shots, killing 78-year-old Italo and 68-year-old Samira.
More:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/27/3526078/a-look-at-the-victims-in-the-hialeah.html#storylink=cpy
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)lemme guess: he *never* had a recorded history of any mental/emotional instability, either??