Witness Makes Key Admission That He Never Saw Trayvon Martin Throw A Punch At Zimmerman

[kpete]

Source: Think Progress

Witness Makes Key Admission That He Never Saw Trayvon Martin Throw A Punch At Zimmerman
By Rebecca Leber on Jun 28, 2013 at 1:14 pm

On day five of George Zimmerman’s trial for the death of Trayvon Martin, a key witness who previously claimed to have seen Martin “throwing down blows” admitted he never saw an actual punch thrown. This admission from John Good could undermine Zimmerman’s claim he shot 17-year-old Martin in reasonable self-defense.

According to the original police report, Good claimed he had seen a black male pinning Zimmerman down “just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA (mixed-martial arts) style.” But on Friday, Good told jurors he “could not see” any punches thrown, only that there was “downward movement.” He also admitted he was not 100 percent sure who yelled “help,” but assumed it was Zimmerman. It is not the first time Good has changed his account of the night Martin died. Three weeks after the incident, Good told a special prosecutor he couldn’t truly tell who yelled for help “because it was so dark out on that sidewalk.”

The reliability of witness testimony has been a major focus for both the defense and state prosecution in the trial. Zimmerman’s defense attorneys have tried to highlight inconsistencies of another witness, 19-year-old Rachel Jeantel, who was on the phone with Martin moments before the shooting. Asked repeatedly by Zimmerman’s attorney Don West why she lied about her reason for not attending Martin’s wake, Jeantel admitted she did not want to see his body. “You. Got. To. Un. Der. Stand,” Jeantel said. “I’m the last person—you don’t know how I felt. You think I really want to go see the body after I just talked to him?”

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/06/28/2232681/witness-admission-zimmerman/

[aquart]

1. I keep wanting to hug her. I hope someone is.

And she is perfectly articulate to me.

[Duer 157099]

3. I could understand her completely

I wanted to offer to be a translator for those attorneys. So many times I know there was misunderstandings that got into the record.

So many times West would say "...blah blah blah, correct?" and she would answer "No" but she meant it to be affirmative. And they let it go without correcting. So many times.

[LeftofObama]

4. I feel the same way!

I just wanted to grab her and give her a big hug. It's obvious she wasn't fluent in "leagaleze", and when that defense attorney kept badgering her and pretending not to understand her, I just wanted to punch him.

[appleannie1]

24. I keep hoping the jury realized it was bullying the witness, plain and simple and that it was

totally disgusting.

[1monster]

5. Agreed.

[alp227]

2. After the disastrous Rachel Jeantel testimony now my prediction swings from acquittal to Hung Jury.

Now both sides have had crappy witnesses.

[aquart]

6. Disastrous? Not to my mind.

[dpibel]

8. Only one side has presented witnesses

If you think the defense has put on any witnesses, you don't know how trials work.

[Nye Bevan]

30. In this trial, it feels like every witness has been a defense witness (nt)

[dpibel]

37. In your mind, yes. Most people don't live there. nft.

[uppityperson]

7. I want to know why since Zimmy was trained in MMA, he keeps assuming it was TM who was doing that

And I'd like to know how he could see the colors of the shirts when it was too dark out for an eye to be able to see color.

http://www.cis.rit.edu/people/faculty/montag/vandplite/pages/chap_9/ch9p1.html

There are two types of photoreceptors in the human retina, rods and cones.

Rods are responsible for vision at low light levels (scotopic vision). They do not mediate color vision, and have a low spatial acuity.

Cones are active at higher light levels (photopic vision), are capable of color vision and are responsible for high spatial acuity. The central fovea is populated exclusively by cones. There are 3 types of cones which we will refer to as the short-wavelength sensitive cones, the middle-wavelength sensitive cones and the long-wavelength sensitive cones or S-cone, M-cones, and L-cones for short.

[Vattel]

10. He could only see downward movement of arms from the guy on top (Martin)

in the direction of the one on the bottom (Zimmerman). Well that certainly changes everything. (sarcasm)

[Blue_Roses]

11. how could the guy see anything as dark as it was?

Why does he keep changing his story? CAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW!

[hack89]

12. So how do you explain Zimmerman's injuries?

We have an EMT testifying:

"He had a very swollen, bleeding nose. He had lacerations to the back of his head," said Livingston. "We just tried to clean up his injuries so we could see them better."

She also saw two cuts on the back of his head, each approximately an inch long. They also cleaned up the cuts

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/28/questions-still-loom-over-george-zimmerman-trial?hpt=hp_inthenews

[FunkyLeprechaun]

16. If Trayvon didn't have Zimmerman's DNA on him

I wouldn't be surprised if he did the injuries to himself.

[hack89]

18. Ok - I doubt the prosecutor is going to run with that theory. nt

[frylock]

17. if zimmerman's story is to be accepted..

that martin held his hand over Zimmerman's mouth and bashed his head repeatedly against the concrete, than why the lack of any of Zimmerman's DNA on martin?

[hack89]

19. Because Trayvon lay exposed in the pouring rain for a while?

because DNA transfer is not as easy as "CSI" would lead you to believe?

I am not a forensic expert - I don't have the experience or knowledge to answer the question.

[riverwalker]

22. tree branches?

http://friendsofharvey.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/ould-this-be-the-real-cause-of-zimmerman-s-head-injuries-zimmermantrial-j4tm/

[arcane1]

26. That's a very good question!

I wonder if it will come up in the trial? That site makes some good points.

[notadmblnd]

34. Maybe the recoil of the gun caused the gun to smack GZ in the nose

and his head went back and hit a pebble or two? He claims TM was on top of him so he would have had to shoot from a reclining position with his arm above his waist. Also, it has been stated elsewhere on DU today that the wounds were measured in centimeters not inches. IIRC it was 2cm and 5 cm.

[hack89]

42. It is interesting that the prosecution hasn't made an issue of his wounds

I wonder if they accept they were a result of a fight?

[WI_DEM]

13. I still don't understand how Zimmy can be innocent of anything...

he pursues a guy who is walking and minding his own business. He confronts this person who is minding their own business and breaking no law. He shoots this person who is not armed and kills him and yet he is trying to claim he is the innocent party.

[Voice for Peace]

15. exactly.

we can only hope the jury has a heart and
at least half a brain.

[tblue]

28. If the shooter was black

would there be any question who the perp was?

[BronxBoy]

32. Nope.....nt

[kelliekat44]

14. He's very articulate and precise. He is allowed to have discrepencies in his testimony.

[VWolf]

20. Ouch. Sad but true. n/t

[yardwork]

46. Also, he's, you know...

I mean, he's, like, white.

[riverwalker]

21. Defense now fighting medical reports

is this why?

In addition to his physical injuries, Zimmerman complained of stress and "occasional nausea when thinking about the violence." But he was not diagnosed with a concussion. The doctor noted that it was "imperative" that Zimmerman "be seen with [sic] his psychologist for evaluation."

According to the report, prior to the shooting Zimmerman had been prescribed Adderall and Temazepam, medications that can cause side effects such as agitation and mood swings, but in fewer than 10 percent of patients.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.Uc3uFtMo6P8

[gejohnston]

39. they were?

Judging from the cross examination of the PA he saw, she looked more like a witness for the defense. On redirect, the prosecutor basically tried to impeach his own witness. The video is below.

[Sancho]

45. The medical records show that GZ took martial arts (MMA) for exercise!!!

All the witnesses are confused about who was on top, but the "style" of MMA was described several times.

[Iliyah]

23. All defense needs to do

is - put doubt into the minds of the jurors.

Prosecutor has the burden of proof beyond all reasonable doubt.

[Bjorn Against]

27. That would be true if the prosecution were trying to put doubt in the minds of jurors

That is not their strategy however, instead they fully acknowledge Zimmerman killed Martin, there is no doubt on that point. Killing another person is illegal in most cases, and in the cases where it is justified the burden is on the defendent to prove it was justified. The state only has to prove Zimmerman killed Martin, the burden is on Zimmerman to prove it was self defense.

[DallasNE]

25. It Seems Zimmerman Went To MMA Sessions 3 Days A Week

And this witness said the person on top was throwing down blows MMA style. So just who was on top? While the injury report said Zimmerman went to aerobics the medical examiner went deeper questioning Zimmerman and he said they were MMA classes 3 days a week for 3 hours.

When someone has a 35 pound advantage, who do you suppose would be on top.

So this clearly opens up a possible mistaken identity by this witness on which person was on top and since the other witnesses have all said it was Zimmerman who was on top this could be a very critical undermining of this testimony. Keep in mind that Martins hands showed no swelling an no blood. Since Zimmerman had a bloody nose and lip where would Martin have been "pounding" if not about the face. Lastly, O'Mara focused mostly on the injuries on the skull, apparently to support Zimmerman was getting his head pounded against the sidewalk. Obviously, Martin could not be on top both throwing down MMA style blows and slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk. Was this a blunder on the part of O'Mara? (The physical evidence then too does not comport with it being Martin on top).

Interesting twists and turns. Not definitive but not helpful to Zimmerman as the evidence is really starting to pile up against him.

[riverwalker]

29. exactly

Zimmerman had 3 times a week, in 3 hour sessions in MMA learning moves, holds, practicing. I wonder of there will be other witnesses about this.

[John2]

31. I don't think

the evidence is piling up against Zimmerman. The Prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, and so far I don't think they are doing so. Zimmerman's excuse for killing Martin is self defense.

So far the prosecution hasn't been agressive enough in proving it wasn't self defense. The testimony from Good was damaging. He should have been a defense witness. I has been able to identify material facts, no other witness viewing the same fight in the dark with it raining, no other witness has been able to do. He even identified Zimmerman as the person calling help in the dark. He was able to identify Zimmerman's clothing and Trayvon's clothing in the Dark. He even identified both races in the Dark. He claimed he could see Trayvon beating Zimmerman MMA style. He saw all those details while all those other witnesses claimed it was too dark. Now he saw all this with one foot out his door and it was raining. He described it exactly the way Zimmerman described it. The prosecution never aggressively challenged him and put him on the stand. I would have challenged him because it was too precise given the lighting and the distance he was from the fighting. If the lighting was so good, why none of the others saw those details? Testimony can be too perfect. I thought his was too perfect. He is also an FSU Graduate. His whole trestimony made Martin the aggressor.

This is strange to me given the backgrounds of Martin and Zimmerman. Martin doesn't have anything in his background about trained MMA techniques but Zimmerman does. Martin was listed at 158 pounds and the medical person had Zimmerman at 204 pounds the next day. That is over 40 pounds heavier. Martin had to be a very strong kid to be able to throw this guy on the ground and dominate him. So Zimmerman is fighting for his life and hardly touches Martin? What was he doing in those classes? And Goodman talks as if Martin had the training. Zimmerman was just on his back helpless and crying help?

The Prosecution has not countered that. Zimmerman also has an excuse, that he quit pursuing Martin and Martin became the pursuer. The only person the prosecution had to counter that was Jenteal and they let the Defense cut her up on the stand without objecting much. If the Prosecution is going to prove their case, they better start. The Defense seems more aggressive and the Prosecution seems more passive.

I definitely would have challenged Goodman's assertion about seeing what he saw in the dark and weather conditions. I also wonder why the prosecution never questioned the police or first responder's about Zimmerman's truck and he never mentioned it when he was arrested. Who picked it up and moved it from its location? The police and prosecutors weren't too keen on prosecuting Zimmerman at the beginning. Then it became political. I understand the first detective to interview Goodman was removed from the case? He was the one determined there wasn't enough evidence in the case to prosecute Zimmerman. If the prosecution isn't more aggressive, Zimmerman will be found innocent. I just don't think they are doing a good job of proving their case. If they don't prove Martin did not turn back to go after Zimmerman after he stopped pursuing him,they will lose this case. Jenteal was the only evidence saying that didn't happen. The only evidence might can disprove it now, is who moved the truck?

And whatever happened to the police that was suppose to be arriving on Zimmerman's first 911 call? Did they ever get the message? I didn't hear the prosecution going into that. Weren't there rummors about witnesses claiming evidence was changed by some police before the case went to another prosecutor involving the Justice Department and the Governor of Florida?

[DallasNE]

38. We Agree On Some Things And Have A Different View On Other Things.

One correction however. The prosecution has to prove that Martin died at Zimmerman's hand. That is a given since not even Zimmerman denies that he shot Martin. Zimmerman cannot simply declare self defense, he must prove it -- not the other way around where the prosecution has to prove it wasn't self defense. If Zimmerman does not prove self defense then he is guilty of manslaughter at the minimum.

Too much of what the defense is claiming is pure speculation. They are speculating that the rain washed the blood off of the sidewalk and off of Martin's hands (which were under his body) yet did not wash the blood off of Zimmerman's head. Excuse me. Zimmerman is claiming that Martin was pounding his head into the sidewalk while Good is saying the person on top was raining down blows MMA style. The prosecution asked if he saw Martin also slamming his head into the sidewalk and Good said "no". How does that help the defense since it is at odds with what they are claiming. Expect the prosecution to point out the likelihood of mistaken identity on who was on top since the description does not support self defense for Zimmerman getting his head pounded into the sidewalk (where there is no blood) and the nature of the blows being struck (MMA style) supports it being Zimmerman on top. This testimony actually helps support the girlfriends testimony more than Zimmerman's defense if you allow for the possibility of mistaken identity in the dark. What the guy saw was basically silhouettes -- did he say whether Martins hood was up or down, for instance. O'Mara appeared blindsided by the MMA revelation and objected when the prosecutor brought it up. That is when it came out that Zimmerman acknowledged aerobics and when the medical examiner asked what kind and how often Zimmerman told her MMA 3 times a week for 3 hours (not clear whether that was 3 one-hour sessions or 3 sessions that were each 3 hours). Could Zimmerman have been hiding this important fact from his defense team?

I would say that if a jury had to decide today they would probably convict on the lesser charge of manslaughter. So far these are all prosecution witnesses and next week we get a bunch of the physical evidence and the expert testimony on how that evidence can be interpreted. Only after that do we get the defense witnesses. I suspect the MMA instructor will be asked to evaluate Zimmerman's MMA skills -- I think they allow late additions as witnesses when new things are discovered during testimony.

Lastly, I don't think you directly challenge an eye-witness on what they think they saw but in closing you point out how a piece of testimony just doesn't fit in with all of the other evidence and explain it away due to the darkness. If I am wrong on this then the prosecution did fumble by not challenging more strongly some of Good's testimony. Keep in mind we did not yet know about the MMA classes Zimmerman had been taking. Nobody thinks the nicks on the back of Zimmerman's head reflect anything but the results of the struggle. The minor scrapes on both sides of Zimmerman's head don't fit the pounding on the sidewalk so I don't understand O'Mara hitting that so hard. They were so minor the medical examiner missed them the next day. Were they old or self-inflected? We just differ on the importance of some of the evidence. I have no special insight so I could very well be misreading things but I think the prosecution has done a fine job to date. You see it differently. I'm fine with that.

[gejohnston]

40. Actually no, Good said he saw who was who.

The prosecution asked if he saw Martin also slamming his head into the sidewalk and Good said "no". How does that help the defense since it is at odds with what they are claiming. Expect the prosecution to point out the likelihood of mistaken identity on who was on top since the description does not support self defense for Zimmerman getting his head pounded into the sidewalk (where there is no blood) and the nature of the blows being struck (MMA style) supports it being Zimmerman on top. This testimony actually helps support the girlfriends testimony more than Zimmerman's defense if you allow for the possibility of mistaken identity in the dark. What the guy saw was basically silhouettes -- did he say whether Martins hood was up or down, for instance.

Why would the prosecution impeach his own witness again? Good said he saw the individuals and the color of their clothes. He clearly said it was Martin on top throwing the punches. See raw footage in post 33.
According to the PA the "MMA style" was actually MMA aerobics, not fighting. As for Martin's MMA
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-05-23/news/os-george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-20130523_1_zimmerman-case-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman

Of course this has so far been inadmissible. That may change.
One thing about Florida's sunshine laws. Withholding exculpatory evidence from the defense is automatic reversal.
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2013-06-05/story/state-attorneys-it-director-will-testify-about-trayvon-martins-cellphone

Which in the last Orlando area trial by media, Casey Anthony, would have happened if she were convicted.

So far I think the jury would go for justifiable. The State's star witness was only an ear witness that only knew what Trayvon told her.

[gejohnston]

33. Mr. Good's testimony on the subject

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:30 AM - Edit history (2)

direct examination by the State

cross by Defense

#at=504

Cross examination and redirect of PA that Zimmerman went to. She is a State witness. That fact that the prosecutor tries to impeach his own witness on redirect tells me that the State has a piss poor case.

&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLwcfp1zlRfKw
After watching raw footage, I have a hard time with TP's analysis. More accurately, their source's couple of paragraphs without explaining context.
I was stationed with a guy that was on the Chicago Seven jury. One thing he said he noticed was that the media reporting didn't match what was going on in court. The media and various started with a trial by media, being he is guilty of murder, without accurate information or even a fair trial. The dishonesty ranged from mis-explaining Florida's law to NBC editing the incorrectly called "911 tapes" since he didn't call 911. They did this for various reasons including making money off of the controversy and just plain laziness. They have a vested interest in maintaining that narrative even if it is untrue and leads to ugly consequences.
Remember, these are witnesses for the prosecution.

[quadrature]

35. OK, so the State has finished? how many witnesses

did they call other than Rachel?

[elleng]

36. I absolutely understand how she felt.

I don't ever 'view' bodies, try to remember the dead as I saw them the last time. And she surely wouldn't want to go to funeral where a major topic, discussed or not, is 'how did it happen.'

[mainer]

43. If I start a fight in a bar, and the guy defends himself, and I kill him...

how can ANYONE blame the guy who's dead?

Whatever Trayvon did, even if he threw punches, it's still down to the fact Zimmerman started the fight, and Trayvon was killed while armed only with Skittles and an ice tea.

[yardwork]

44. Residents of the condo association have a strong motivation to help Zimmerman's acquittal.

Conviction of Zimmerman will open up the HOA to more liability for the death of Trayvon Martin. There has already been one lawsuit settled. There is a potential for the owners in the condo association to be liable for millions of dollars. This cost would be passed on to all the residents, even if they are renters.