NBC: Snowden’s father floats terms for son’s return

[bemildred]

Source: NBC

The father of NSA leaker Edward Snowden has told the Justice Department that his son will return home under certain conditions, including no detention before trial and no gag order, NBC News reports

Lonnie Snowden spoke NBC news investigative reporter MIchael Iskioff in an interview aired by NBC's Today program Friday morning.

---

Lonnie Snowden says he informed Attorney General Eric Holder through his lawyer that his son will return home if the Justice Department promises not to detain him before a trial nor subject him to a gag order. He says he also wants his son to select where a trial will take place.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/28/edward-snowden-nbc-today-show-nsa-return-home-traitor/2471273/

[DCBob]

1. LOL!!

DESPERATION!

[Jefferson23]

2. Wow, was not expecting this..interesting, to say the least. n/t

[bemildred]

5. Probably not a good idea to expect much of anything at this point.

It is more like a shitstorm than a rational process.

Based on what Mr. Snowden has had to say to this point, I think he would come home if promised a fair and public jury trial, which would also do something to restore our besmirched reputation and credibility, but of course we will do nothing of the sort.

[Jefferson23]

10. Agree, and this is getting more intense with each passing day.

Thanks for posting.

[bemildred]

11. A frenzy of butt-covering, spin, and catcalls mostly.

The higher you climb, the more you show your arse.

I am curious how the elder Snowden knows what he says.

[Jefferson23]

16. True enough, worse to come imo. His father, I can't help but wonder if he is

speaking without direct knowledge. A father first and foremost, desperate to make a deal.

Speaking out to his son by this means via the press and I have to wonder if there was something promised
or an alleged promise by Wiki that fell through. My speculations, I should keep to myself,
but there they are, lol.

[bemildred]

20. Yeah, he leaves questions, but that is likely on purpose/necessary.

There is a huge fucking army of people out there this minute obsessively hunting his kid.

[Jefferson23]

51. Absolutely hunting him and why I wonderd if the father is trying to arrange something, regardless

of whether or not it be feasible. It is what a father would attempt, at the very least, for his son.
He points a finger at Wiki, and it made me wonder about a relationship that was to occur, but did not.

[bemildred]

52. I think he's just worried about his kid. Nothing else to it. nt

[Catherina]

41. +1. - Lots of Pig Squealing and Little Fleece n/t

[randome]

39. Given Snowden's propensity for grabbing the spotlight for himself...

...a public trial would run the risk that he would shout out the name of an agent in, say, China, just to fuck us over some more.

Snowden has proven he can't be trusted with national security secrets.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[bemildred]

46. Mr. Snowden is stuck in the airport in Moscow and is being given the spotlight by our dumbass media.

[BeyondGeography]

3. Terms?

I don't think so.

[Historic NY]

4. The father wants to make a deal...

by dictating terms.

"He said he has not spoken with his son since Edward left the country last month."

So then how does he know what his son wants ?

[think]

19. Maybe he watched an Ellsberg interview and learned how he was treated

Ellsberg was released by a judge on his own recognizance, had NO gag order placed on him, and was free to talk to whom ever he wanted before his trial started.

Modern whistleblowers who follow the system are turned over to the DOJ for prosecution, have their lives turned upside,and utterly ignored by the main stream media.

These 3 NSA whistleblowers at a recent USA Today roundtable describe how FUTILE it is to try and report wrong doing using official channels:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/

Ask Sibel Edmonds about gag orders and her ability to tell the truth and expose govt crime. Secret Law has made democracy & the constitution nothing more than a sad joke.


So it might not be real surprising that Snowden's father would prefer his son's constitutional rights won't be ignored and that no gag orders placed on him to silence his defense....

[hack89]

23. Ellsberg didn't attempt to flee the country

it is clear that Snowden is a flight risk.

[think]

24. LOL. Snowden watched Binney, Drake, and Weibe and got smart about

how the US no longer respects the civil rights of whistle blowers.

Or should we just ignore what happened to the whistleblowers who FOLLOWED the law?

[hack89]

25. Just explaining why Snowden will be locked up if he comes home.

that's all.

[think]

29. And I was just explaining why Snowden, as a whistleblower had no other VIABLE options

Sure he could have went the legal route, followed the chain of command, had the comptroller general turn his name over to the DOJ for prosecution, have his home raided and documents removed, all while been ignored by the FREE press and the abuses of govt by the NSA & private corporations continued just like the previous whistleblowers.

So sure if he just wanted his life totally fucked up while achieving NOTHING he could have tried to follow the rules imposed by those who are breaking the laws.....

[hack89]

31. Perhaps - but right now he is running out of options.

it would appear that global support for the guy is not as great as some would have us believe.

[uhnope]

81. running to China & Russia were viable options?

[think]

83. Apparently they were compared to what Manning has endured here in the free land....

And with the NDAA authorizing the legal indefinite detainment of American citizens why should Snowden expect any better treatment than Manning?

Daniel Ellsberg, the Pentagon Papers whistle blower, had this to say about Snowden's options:

America's Edward Snowden problem
by Peter Lee Jun 28, '13

Ellsberg:

"The NDAA, National Defense Authorization Act, permits military custody indefinitely of an American citizen who's a civilian, and Snowden could very well find himself at Quantico, naked perhaps like Bradley was for a while, and be really incommunicado, as Bradley has been for three years with the single exception of being allowed to make a statement when he pled guilty to 10 charges. And that's the only chance he had to speak out. So I think Snowden has learned from that example."

~Snip~

Full article:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-01-280613.html

The whistleblowers who followed the chain of command were all handed over to the DOJ for indictment. These other NSA whistleblowers were later not charged but they were put under gag orders and their testimony muted. So they followed the chain of command and got screwed.

So please feel free to tell us what Snowden was suppose to do......

[HardTimes99]

28. Right, Snowden's passport has been revoked and he would be returning to the U.S.

voluntarily.

'Flight risk' is positively Orwellian.

[hack89]

30. You don't think Wikileaks and other such groups wouldn't hesitate to help him flee?

a private jet and and a welcoming country is all he needs.

[HardTimes99]

32. For two weeks, this site has been full of pious cries that Snowden is a 'coward'

for fleeing rather than facing the music. (Saw a post just this morning comparing Snowden unfavorably to Ellsberg, b/c Ellsberg didn't flee - maybe in this thread even!)

Now Snowden would be voluntarily returning to face trial - the ostensible objective of those pious patriots - and he's a 'flight risk'?

I say he should refuse to return to the U.S. and demand instead a trial at the World Court. That would at least allow the proponents of patriotic piety to continue their grousing about Snowden's "cowardice."

Of course, where I come from, we call such patriotic piety by a different name, something that comprises lively double standards and involves inmates of the 8th circle of Dante's Inferno.

[hack89]

33. The World Court does not have jurisdiction. nt

[HardTimes99]

34. Hee-hee. Well, at the moment, the U.S. does not have

jurisdiction either.

[hack89]

35. They will get him eventually - the entire world has turned their backs on Snowden. nt

[HardTimes99]

60. Famous last words. Maybe you'd like to retract? Venezuela

has offered Snowden asylum:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06/28/311253/venezuela-renews-asylum-offer-to-snowden/

[hack89]

61. Unfortunately he cannot get to Venezuela

and Venezuela knows that. Snowden can't travel without a passport.

[HardTimes99]

62. Last time I checked, Venezuela maintained diplomatic relations with the Russian Federation and

an embassy in Moscow. Said embassy is Venezuelan territory under international law.

See also: Julian Assange and Ecuadorean embassy in the UK.

Nice try, though.

[hack89]

65. Russia has said that Snowden cannot enter Russia

Russian wants Snowden gone, not sitting in the Venezuelan embassy in Moscow.

Notice how Assange is trapped in London - he cannot step outside without being arrested.

Spending years in a Venezuelan embassy in Moscow is not my idea of being free.

[ellenfl]

70. beats getting waterboarded and worse. eom

[wtmusic]

76. Yeah, and the Bruins will win the Stanley Cup.

[hack89]

77. Low blow! Can't you respect our grief? nt

[wtmusic]

79. It was a tough way to lose

and the Bruins are a great team.

I'm a Hawks fan but honestly it could have gone either way.

[davidpdx]

36. There is the International Court of Justice, but that would be highly unlikely

As the idea of negotiating the US wouldn't agree to the terms and he won't come back anyway so it's quite ridiculous for him or his family to say he is willing to come back. Most likely Ecuador will given him asylum and that will be the end of it.

[hack89]

37. The ICC does not have jurisdiction either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice

[davidpdx]

48. Yeah that's what I was thinking, but I wasn't 100% sure

[Le Taz Hot]

42. They're just pissed

because Snowden is making Obama look bad which is funny because Obama was looking pretty bad all on his own.

[HardTimes99]

45. I suppose there is some of that atavistic nonsense at work here. I always

return to Samuel Johnson's wisdom: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

[Le Taz Hot]

54. Actually, it is pretty much that simple.

There's a cult of hero worship on DU surrounding Obama in which a few engage. There aren't many of them left holding on to their blind loyalty but those few are vociferous and very prolific.

[cstanleytech]

50. "this site has been full of pious cries that Snowden is a 'coward'" Thats odd.

I have seen some claim him as a hero (even though those same people blasted Scooter Libby for revealing Plames name as an agent for the CIA which was classified) but the board as far as I can tell hasnt been full of people calling him coward or atleast not in most of the threads I have read over this issue.
Then again I suppose I could have missed it as people keep creating their own topics over him scattered all over on the DU.

[uhnope]

82. and pious cries that he's a brave young man hero dissident blah blah

[treestar]

55. Look at the number of people who sneak over the border into the US

to become undocumented aliens! Going the other way is likely much easier. Then on down to Ecuador.

[ancianita]

68. Thank you for citing her. She needs to be remembered among all these others. nt

[flamingdem]

64. His son won't return unless promised

a super fast internet connection wherever he may land!

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. Of course he's going to come back

He will be placed in detention straightaway.

However, I think he's a good candidate for bail, despite his laughable voyage, so that could probably be worked out in hearings.

He'll get 3-5 in a federal for reduced charges.

[Major Hogwash]

58. Perhaps, but why would he want to come back?

What with all that delicious food available to him in the Russian transit area, all those nights filled with partying in his own room with himself, all of those reality tv program offers that keep pouring in, and now he may even be able to sell his movie script.

Or not.

[warrior1]

7. wow

again, he didn't think out his plan very well.

If he intended to be the hero for the paulbots, scratch that, he's is after all this falling into the perfect image of a coward.

[Jefferson23]

8. Interesting, his father's claim:

Snowden's father: My son may return to US, being manipulated by WikiLeaks

Edward Snowden's father says his son could return to back to the US if certain conditions are met, NBC reports. Snowden wants to remain at large before trial and choose where it would take place. The father insists his NSA-leaker son was manipulated.

Edward Snowden also would like prosecutors not to file a so-called gag order, which bans information or any comments from being made public, Lonnie Snowden said.

The channel reports Snowden Snr. intends to send a letter to the US Justice Department and attorney General Eric Holder through his lawyer later on Friday.

Lonnie Snowden, who has not spoken to his son since April, believes his son was manipulated by third parties, including WikiLeaks.

“I think WikiLeaks, if you've looked at past history, you know, their focus isn't necessarily the Constitution of the United States. It's simply to release as much information as possible,” Snowden Snr. told NBC’s Today.

http://rt.com/usa/snowden-father-return-usa-377/

[graham4anything]

9. I trust the honorable Eric Holder to do whatever is constitutionally acceptable, as he always has.nt

[bitchkitty]

13. Jesus, how smarmy.

Holder worshipper, are we?

I don't expect he could do anything acceptable or not, with that much saliva dripping from his ass.

[graham4anything]

14. I wish Eric was on SCOTUS instead of Clarence Thomas. THomas an insult to Thurgood Marshall's memory

[Heidi]

17. May I ask you an honest question, with no insult intended? (nt)

Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2013, 09:55 AM - Edit history (1)

[graham4anything]

21. there is no question and there is no question.

[Botany]

12. Terms?

[Enrique]

15. they should also promise not to "Hastings" his car n/t

[msanthrope]

80. What the hell does that even mean? nt

[MADem]

18. This is hilarious--what is it about some people that they think, when their ass is

tied to the stake and the flames are rising up around them, that they can demand ice water and a designer asbestos suit?

Who does he think he is? And he may not have "spoken" to his son, but I'll betcha a donut he's exchanged EMAILS with the little shit.

I hope he's good at languages--Russian is a (pun intended) real BEAR to learn...and surprisingly, the easiest part is the alphabet!

How nice that he'll be able to get the Full Immersion Program at the Moscow Transit Lounge University!

I have to wonder--have Ecuador and VZ told him to pound sand? I hope so--he did not do this right at all, and I'm not fully convinced he even knows what the hell he's talking about.

[askeptic]

86. Yes, it's damn funny watching the media and others behaving as if his father is legit agent

more cake for the masses to detour them to nonsensical speculative adventures...

[MADem]

87. The father isn't inventing these demands, I don't think.

He may not have "spoken" to his son but I'll bet he's gotten emails or texts from him.

I think the NPR theory that he's hidden away at the guarded NOVOTEL Hotel for non-visa holders is probably accurate. I wonder who is paying for that?

[Nancy Waterman]

22. the only thing he has to trade are the files

he still has. Essentially, what he would be doing is extortion: you treat me well and give me a deal or I release them.
And they are in the hands of others, so there is no guarantee they can be gotten back anyway.

[ancianita]

69. A Guardian article reported that he had other files distributed around the world. Thousands.

[DCBob]

78. Its been reported the files have already been sucked up by the Chinese and the Russians.

He has nothing to trade.

[raindaddy]

26. Tell The Justice Dept..

Tell the Justice Dept., "my son would like the same deal you gave the Bush administration and the banksters. "

[BenzoDia]

27. Damage has already been done. There's really not much father or son can negotiate with.

Also, in the article, it said that they haven't even spoken. So, this is just what the dad is saying.

edit:
Updated since I had only read the original Reuters article.

[Catherina]

38. Will or May? This story sounds suspicious. Oops! NBC has already changed something in the story

Snowden's father was on TV a few weeks ago begging his son to come home and displaying an incredible degree of naivete about his son's situation.

Here's how the BBC reported this story earlier

The father of US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden has said in an interview he believes his son would go back to the US if several conditions were met.

Lon Snowden told NBC News his son may return if he is not detained before trial, nor subjected to a gag order and can choose where his trial is held.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23100746#

Wonder of wonders my friend, I just checked your link to see if later in the USA Today article they put any qualifiers on it and look at this. They changed the sentence already!

The father of NSA leaker Edward Snowden has told the Justice Department that his son will probably return home under certain conditions, including no detention before trial and no gag order, NBC News reports.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/28/edward-snowden-nbc-today-show-nsa-return-home-traitor/2471273/

[bemildred]

40. The government propaganda organs are in quite a tizzy, eh?

I haven't seen quite this much bullshit since the election.

[Catherina]

43. It's been breath-taking to see it so unfinessed due to panic and unrestrained anger

It's embarrassing too.

[Catherina]

66. And this bullshit propaganda is all over the world now. Look how it has *grown*

Snowden would return to the United States only with conditions
Featured News, Politics, World | Friday, June 28, 2013
Source:: Expreso Newspaper


Lonnie Snowden, father of the former CIA analyst, who is accused by the U.S. of espionage said this Friday that Edward is willing to surrender and return to the country only under the condition that they not be imprison him before being processed and not be forced to remain silent.
...

Snowden’s father said he had sent through his lawyer, a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, text in which the former analyst of the National Security Agency (NSA) explains that he plans to return to the United States only if he’s not immediately arrested or forced to remain silent and can choose where the process takes place.

....

http://www.ecuadortimes.net/2013/06/28/snowden-would-return-to-the-united-states-only-with-conditions/

These doofuses are so out of their league. Anyone paying any attention is on to their game.

[HardTimes99]

44. Excellent catch. There's a mile of linguistic difference between

the future tense 'will' and the conditional-subjunctive mood 'would'.

Not that I expect that to slow down the pious proponents of patriotism in the slightest.

Your linguistic sleuthing skills are clearly a match for Chomsky's. In short, you ROCK!

[Catherina]

47. Thank you HardTimes99

In this case it was mostly that this story made no more sense than the stories about how we had Ecuador in a squeeze with that stupid trade deal that was just a fig leaf for the US war on drugs. NBC can always be counted on to carry water for the MIC.

[Renew Deal]

49. Why would he get to dictate any of this?

The US can set terms too. Snowden should come home voluntarily or the US will use any means possible to bring him home.

[treestar]

56. Just like Julian does

How many terms has Julian required of various governments, that they do exceptional things in his case? Maybe it goes with the leaker territory.

[The Stranger]

73. Not dictate -- negotiate.

That "dictate" word must have been used by the mass media because it keeps popping up here.

And the U.S. most likely not use "any means possible." If they wanted to torture him, they should have kept it from the press (although they don't seem to torture White people), and had CIA pick him up and "rendition" him.

[MADem]

88. He doesn't. We could have his ass tomorrow if we traded for him.

Deputy parliament speaker Vladimir Zhirinovsky has proposed Snowden be exchanged for Viktor Bout, a Russian arms dealer whose jailing in the United States angered Moscow. The United States has refused Russian requests for his repatriation.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/25/us-usa-security-snowden-russia-idUSBRE95O1DG20130625

[MjolnirTime]

53. They're going to get him anyway, Lonnie. Your boy fucked up.

[wandy]

57. This may have something to do with being a kid during the cold war coloring my opinion...........

Somehow I don't think that being a 'man without a country', cooling you're heals at a Russian airport, with you're pockets possibly stuffed with U.S. secrets is the bestest situation to be in.

Why do I hear Warren Zevon.

But how was I to know it.
She was with the Russians too.
Send Lawyers Guns and Money.
Dad get me out of here.

[KansDem]

59. Designate Snowden as a banker or Wall Street CEO. The Justice Department won't touch him!

They'll stay far away!

[The Stranger]

63. Even with a signed agreement or a court order, what would make him think the U.S. government would

comply with it?

They have had people in cages in Cuba for a decade now with no court hearing, indictment, or charges.

They'll do whatever the fuck they want.

[olddad56]

67. totally agree

[Politicub]

71. Fuck him - he's in no place to dictate the terms of his son's return

What an asshat.

[The Stranger]

72. Maybe not dictate, but certainly negotiate.

[Politicub]

74. Or negotiate. I think he's doing his son a disservice

[wtmusic]

75. Classic psyops/Mafia move - when you don't have a target, get the next best thing: their family.

I wonder who went to whom: father to NSA, or...nevermind.

[mulsh]

84. I bet the folk at Justice had a good giggle over these antics. I bet their official response, if any

was " here's the deal. No deal. You get nothing."

[Turbineguy]

85. Come home!

All is forgiven!

[1StrongBlackMan]

89. Interesting …

Snowden’s father, who knows his son far better than anyone on the internets believes that Snowden is being manipulated.
But I guess, others will discount this as will … Again the descriptor, “Useful Idiot” comes to mind. I’m pretty certain that, if we are honest with ourselves, we can reflect on an instance(s) in our lives where we THOUGHT we were doing the “right thing” for the “right reason” … only to find that that “right thing” was really for others’ reasons - that really had nothing to do with us.

[Sunlei]

91. interesting

agree, someone backed this persons path in life. The excellent paying 'jobs' that fell into his lap. Someone directed him towards the high security job with 3 months,unmonitored computer access. Someone helped him pass security and get hired. & someone backs the very expensive world run.

This is no lone wolf. Now his backers have dropped him. Only a matter of time before the Feds arrest him. He will be muzzled forever. His Dad should know the Gov won't allow free speech to a pending case person. His Dad should tell him to speak now about who backed him, how he got the jobs and passed the security clearances.

[1StrongBlackMan]

94. Won't happen ...

because if he were to tell his whole story, it would expose him as a non-hero; but rather, at best a person with an innocent, but naive agenda, and at worst, the "useful idiot."

[KinMd]

90. I expect Snowden to hire an agent for his book deal

..and he hopes that Jessie Eisenberg will play him in the movie

[tonekat]

92. He's exceeded his purpose at this point

Now he is on his own, to sleep in a pod and subsist on junk food. I suppose he could form a club with that other guy who's stuck in an airport somewhere because of citizenship issues.

[frontier00]

93. Don't hate

He sounds like a concerned parent